Blood sacrifice. Are they divine or satanic?

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#41
So you do not believe scriptures like these that say otherwise.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Samuel 15;22
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

These are all garbage are they?



I agree. A genocidal god is not good for anything.

As to you wanting Jesus as your savior, tell us why you were condemned.

Then speak to your immoral abdication of your responsibility for your own actions.

On Jesus dying for you.

It takes quite an ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.

Regards
DL
If u kno literature, god is not supposed to die. The fact that a triangle of some sort birthed an evervesant farce speaks volumes to the allocation of a non existent. Why do u think ure soul is the only thing w0rth dying for?
 





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#42
Well the Christian God required his own son as a sacrifice, to die in the most horrible way. I would say that Christianity reaches the markers of a Death cult for that reason.
And witchcraft is also a part of it, with the whole 'I am protected by the blood of Christ' thing. It sounds like black magic to me.

Yes I know this is very unpopular to say and I'll probably be discarded as an anti Christian troll for it, but it's genuinely amazing to me that people don't see how these aspects of Christianity come across to those who don't believe.
Did you continue to read the scripture where an angel was sent to stop him from sacrificing his son?
 





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#43
Did you continue to read the scripture where an angel was sent to stop him from sacrificing his son?
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped JesusChrist rev 7:11
 





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#44
If u kno literature, god is not supposed to die. The fact that a triangle of some sort birthed an evervesant farce speaks volumes to the allocation of a non existent. Why do u think ure soul is the only thing w0rth dying for?
Too gutless to speak to your immoral ideology eh?

I am not surprised at you usual Christian hypocrisy.

At least you know you do evil and sin and are ashamed of yourself, even if you won't admit it.

Regards
DL
 





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#47
You’ve only told part of the story...but then you maybe don’t like the whole story? God didn’t send His Son to die for no good reason. He sent His season to take the punishment for our sins, to save us from the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. It was horrible how He died, which is humbling to think about for us sinners who don’t have to do anything but believe in Him for salvation.

Witchcraft has nothing to do with God.

We know..doesn’t mean that it’s not true that you don’t like what you hear.
why would God subject us to that in the first place?
God created evil and made us capable of evil.

Furthermore even believing in Jesus is not enough because he will reject many who believed in him.
In reality, the sacrifice is not about being saved from HELL, it's about breaking the illusion of maya through gnosis of Jesus..but you don't even know what that means.
 





Lisa

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#48
why would God subject us to that in the first place?
God created evil and made us capable of evil.

Furthermore even believing in Jesus is not enough because he will reject many who believed in him.
In reality, the sacrifice is not about being saved from HELL, it's about breaking the illusion of maya through gnosis of Jesus..but you don't even know what that means.
Subject us to what? The lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth? That’s the punishment for sin, people don’t really sin and get away with it even if you think no one has seen your sin, God has.

God didn’t create evil. God warned Adam that the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would surely die. Adam disobeyed God and that’s when sin came into the world, it’s not like God wanted it that way at all.
God gave us free will, that’s not making us capable of evil. Eating from the tree of good and evil opened our eyes and we have the choice to do good or to do evil.

No, Jesus doesn’t say that he rejects people who believe but the ones who practice lawlessness.

I don’t need to know what that means since it’s not part of the gospel. I know the gospel and know that Jesus did sacrifice Himself so that we would not perish but have everlasting life..
It does you no good to know the things you know when you will perish if you don’t believe in Jesus.
 





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#49
Subject us to what? The lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth? That’s the punishment for sin, people don’t really sin and get away with it even if you think no one has seen your sin, God has.

God didn’t create evil. God warned Adam that the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would surely die. Adam disobeyed God and that’s when sin came into the world, it’s not like God wanted it that way at all.
God gave us free will, that’s not making us capable of evil. Eating from the tree of good and evil opened our eyes and we have the choice to do good or to do evil.

No, Jesus doesn’t say that he rejects people who believe but the ones who practice lawlessness.

I don’t need to know what that means since it’s not part of the gospel. I know the gospel and know that Jesus did sacrifice Himself so that we would not perish but have everlasting life..
It does you no good to know the things you know when you will perish if you don’t believe in Jesus.
1) The nature of evil which we inherited from Adam and Eve, is DESIRE...ie the fire of desire.
Yet desire is a product of self-consciousness in multiplicity. It is a byproduct of the process of creation.
All things in creation come from the Logos/Word, which is a state of unity of consciousness. Seperation of consciousness, as in creation, is the origin of desire which in turn is the origin of evil.

The fruit is just a metaphor for self-awareness. It is written that Adam and Eve were naked and did not posses the knowledge of their nakedness. This is akin to the partiarchs who were living in 'faith' but not 'under the law'.
The law was given not to conceal sin but to make it known, eg the depths of darkness. So for example in islam, alcohol is haram. When a muslim drinks alcohol, it is seen as a major sin..and in my mind when i was a kid, it was in my mind the worst thing (just the way we were conditioned as ethnic muslims living in England where everyone white was drinking and a few of our own people).
So what wasn't once forbidden or seen as a major evil, now is. In the same way, eating the fruit didnt make adam and eve evil, it only revealed their inherent nature of evil ie their desire..and by the fruit they became self-aware eg the fruit represents desire, it was the next level of consciousness in their metaphysical descent, from a state of ignorant bliss, to self awareness, like a baby growing into a young child.

Hell itself is just a metaphor of existing in lower states of consciousness, suffering under our desires. It's what the Buddhists call 'Tanha/craving' and is seen as the root of all suffering.

2) the way out of that state is either to adhere to God's law in order to control desire..but through right knowledge. So in buddhism for example they try to attain the right knowledge of the nature of this temporal life and then transform craving/burning desire into wholesome desire...ie desire for good. So it's like bringing that fire under control and making it useful.
The problem with this state is, it's easily swayed...just like lust is great if it's for your lawful partner, it's not so great when you have no control over it and lust for anyone.
Who can control their lust? i mean even if we dont act on it, it still exists in our heart..it in turn 'burns' us.

The way out...to completely flush out desire eg to kill that fire..is to basically die to our carnal nature. It means killing every attachment we have..and that is extreme. Every major religion beleives in this to some extent.some focus entirely on this goal and some recognise that it isnt for everyone but only for special people.
However what Jesus represented, as the logos itself...was a pathway to entering that state of consciousness, by uniting with him spiritually (which is what gnosis of Jesus means).

John 12:25
Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Anyway you said
No, Jesus doesn’t say that he rejects people who believe but the ones who practice lawlessness.
Yet christianity says we're all sinners regardless and therefore need Jesus to save us..so you can't later conveniently move the goalposts and forget the other part when it suits you..and then say 'oh yeh Jesus is rejecting them because they practice lawlessness' (as in they are sinners).

Jesus will say to them 'i never KNEW YOU'
knowing, knowledge=gnosis. "i am in you and you are in me" this is obtained by making Jesus dominate your heart to the point where you experience this 'gnosis' of Jesus.

Matthew 10:37
Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;

3) Salvation in the christian NT sense, is not protection from hell itself (although it obv does inc that, but it isnt really about that), because I could ask for God's forgiveness and obtain that protection if i'm sincere. God is ALL MERCIFUL.
The real salvation is salvation from the state of separation (of consciousness), our current state. If you look at the jewish/israelite story, it teaches us that this fire can't be controlled because no matter how high the highs, the jews fell pretty bad into sin each time and paid the price.
As long as we exist in our current state, even at our best we'll be like David or Job in the psalms, always suffering, experiencing the law of karma.
Like having 100 sheep and losing the 1...then suffering.
obtaining unity means obtaining everything and that's why Jesus then spoke of 'faith the size of a mustard seed'
think this one through...a seed represents infinity...and that is what The Word made flesh is, it is the seed of infinity.
The parables like the parable of the lost sheep, or the 10 coins..they were relative to the LAW of Moses, he was speaking to the Pharisees. it was a lesson of what living under the law means...it means suffering.
 





Lisa

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#50
1) The nature of evil which we inherited from Adam and Eve, is DESIRE...ie the fire of desire.
Yet desire is a product of self-consciousness in multiplicity. It is a byproduct of the process of creation.
All things in creation come from the Logos/Word, which is a state of unity of consciousness. Seperation of consciousness, as in creation, is the origin of desire which in turn is the origin of evil.

The fruit is just a metaphor for self-awareness. It is written that Adam and Eve were naked and did not posses the knowledge of their nakedness. This is akin to the partiarchs who were living in 'faith' but not 'under the law'.
The law was given not to conceal sin but to make it known, eg the depths of darkness. So for example in islam, alcohol is haram. When a muslim drinks alcohol, it is seen as a major sin..and in my mind when i was a kid, it was in my mind the worst thing (just the way we were conditioned as ethnic muslims living in England where everyone white was drinking and a few of our own people).
So what wasn't once forbidden or seen as a major evil, now is. In the same way, eating the fruit didnt make adam and eve evil, it only revealed their inherent nature of evil ie their desire..and by the fruit they became self-aware eg the fruit represents desire, it was the next level of consciousness in their metaphysical descent, from a state of ignorant bliss, to self awareness, like a baby growing into a young child.

Hell itself is just a metaphor of existing in lower states of consciousness, suffering under our desires. It's what the Buddhists call 'Tanha/craving' and is seen as the root of all suffering.

2) the way out of that state is either to adhere to God's law in order to control desire..but through right knowledge. So in buddhism for example they try to attain the right knowledge of the nature of this temporal life and then transform craving/burning desire into wholesome desire...ie desire for good. So it's like bringing that fire under control and making it useful.
The problem with this state is, it's easily swayed...just like lust is great if it's for your lawful partner, it's not so great when you have no control over it and lust for anyone.
Who can control their lust? i mean even if we dont act on it, it still exists in our heart..it in turn 'burns' us.

The way out...to completely flush out desire eg to kill that fire..is to basically die to our carnal nature. It means killing every attachment we have..and that is extreme. Every major religion beleives in this to some extent.some focus entirely on this goal and some recognise that it isnt for everyone but only for special people.
However what Jesus represented, as the logos itself...was a pathway to entering that state of consciousness, by uniting with him spiritually (which is what gnosis of Jesus means).

John 12:25
Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Anyway you said
No, Jesus doesn’t say that he rejects people who believe but the ones who practice lawlessness.
Yet christianity says we're all sinners regardless and therefore need Jesus to save us..so you can't later conveniently move the goalposts and forget the other part when it suits you..and then say 'oh yeh Jesus is rejecting them because they practice lawlessness' (as in they are sinners).

Jesus will say to them 'i never KNEW YOU'
knowing, knowledge=gnosis. "i am in you and you are in me" this is obtained by making Jesus dominate your heart to the point where you experience this 'gnosis' of Jesus.

Matthew 10:37
Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;

3) Salvation in the christian NT sense, is not protection from hell itself (although it obv does inc that, but it isnt really about that), because I could ask for God's forgiveness and obtain that protection if i'm sincere. God is ALL MERCIFUL.
The real salvation is salvation from the state of separation (of consciousness), our current state. If you look at the jewish/israelite story, it teaches us that this fire can't be controlled because no matter how high the highs, the jews fell pretty bad into sin each time and paid the price.
As long as we exist in our current state, even at our best we'll be like David or Job in the psalms, always suffering, experiencing the law of karma.
Like having 100 sheep and losing the 1...then suffering.
obtaining unity means obtaining everything and that's why Jesus then spoke of 'faith the size of a mustard seed'
think this one through...a seed represents infinity...and that is what The Word made flesh is, it is the seed of infinity.
The parables like the parable of the lost sheep, or the 10 coins..they were relative to the LAW of Moses, he was speaking to the Pharisees. it was a lesson of what living under the law means...it means suffering.
1.) The Bible talks about it as lust..It isn’t something God is a part of though.
James‬ ‭1:13-15‬ ‭
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:12‬ ‭
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts.

‭‭‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:16‬ ‭
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.

2.) I don’t think people can control their lusts all the way, we can‘t really be good without God. Christians talk about dying to self..but unless God is in that, I don’t think we ourselves can do that.

Well, you are saved if you believe in Jesus then you must stay in that belief. You can’t keep sinning and think that you are saved is what I mean, you have to have a changed heart, its the inner man who is changed not the outer man.

You know Jesus by believing Him. The Holy Spirt is given us to teach us things about God, He is the one who lives in our hearts. I however don’t believe that once you are saved you are always saved, we must continue on in our belief and be faithful to God to the end..otherwise we could be deceived and fall away from the faith. However, many Christians like to believe this is not possible, I don’t think the Bible supports that theory like they think it does.


3.) No, Jesus is the only way to the Father, He is the only One who can reconcile us to Him. You can’t cut out Jesus from the equation.
John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”
‭‭
After you believe in Jesus then you are reconciled to God the Father which is the other part of salvation, saved so that we won’t perish but have everlasting life to be with God.

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:16-19‬ ‭
Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.​
 





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#51
@Lisa our creation itself, making us into distinct individual consciousnesses in a world of multiplicity is where desire..and hence evil originate from. Creation itself is the 'defect', the origin of evil etc. To say that God didn't want evil is just a basic way of educating people who were really limited in awareness, who might have suggested God is the problem, that is also a kind of mythos too.

The real truth is creation leads to the duality of good and evil so by extention God's act of creation IS evil and we shouldnt kid ourselves about that fact. All our suffering is because we experience limitation..and that is because God made us that way.
Humans desire to be Whole again..and that is why Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Eating the fruit was just a means of becoming aware of their own limitations.
The logos is an infinite ocean and we are all drops from it that are in hell when seperated from it and whole again when returned to it.
Jesus became a pathway to the logos...as he was the logos made flesh.

There are millions of christians who have embraced Jesus and then developed into worse humans. Christians and muslims are no different in this regard, except islam has more rules through which we at least recognise our own evil to a higher degree.
Christians dont have specific rules on modesty. Rather, a christian is meant to automatically be a modest person by virtue of spiritual guidance from the holy spirit. That is, authentic christianity. However christianity is damaged..and as a result many christians have tried to embrace it..and been left empty. That's because the branches are cut off...so how can they merge with a cut off branch (a church)?

As for why they are cut off, Im sure its because they believe in a doctrine that didn't come from Jesus or the apostles. 'the son and the holy spirit are co-equals with God the Father'.
 





Lisa

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#52
@Lisa our creation itself, making us into distinct individual consciousnesses in a world of multiplicity is where desire..and hence evil originate from. Creation itself is the 'defect', the origin of evil etc. To say that God didn't want evil is just a basic way of educating people who were really limited in awareness, who might have suggested God is the problem, that is also a kind of mythos too.

The real truth is creation leads to the duality of good and evil so by extention God's act of creation IS evil and we shouldnt kid ourselves about that fact. All our suffering is because we experience limitation..and that is because God made us that way.
Humans desire to be Whole again..and that is why Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Eating the fruit was just a means of becoming aware of their own limitations.
The logos is an infinite ocean and we are all drops from it that are in hell when seperated from it and whole again when returned to it.
Jesus became a pathway to the logos...as he was the logos made flesh.

There are millions of christians who have embraced Jesus and then developed into worse humans. Christians and muslims are no different in this regard, except islam has more rules through which we at least recognise our own evil to a higher degree.
Christians dont have specific rules on modesty. Rather, a christian is meant to automatically be a modest person by virtue of spiritual guidance from the holy spirit. That is, authentic christianity. However christianity is damaged..and as a result many christians have tried to embrace it..and been left empty. That's because the branches are cut off...so how can they merge with a cut off branch (a church)?

As for why they are cut off, Im sure its because they believe in a doctrine that didn't come from Jesus or the apostles. 'the son and the holy spirit are co-equals with God the Father'.
Actually God called everything He made good. I was watching a video and someone said that the first not good in the garden was God saying that it wasn’t good for man to be alone. Otherwise it was all good. God isn’t evil and like the verse I quoted you can’t even be tempted by it. So, to say that God has a hand in making evil is totally false. Or that He made man faulty is also false. He did make it that man had to take responsibility for his mistakes which is maybe where people hate that idea. We all want to blame someone else..heck that‘s exactly what Adam and Eve did, Adam going a bit further in blaming God for creating Eve in the first place! Who does that? A lot of people.

If Adam and Eve had never eaten from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we can wonder as to what a world it would have been like. Still in a good relationship with God, after all He walked with them in the cool of the day. They actually knew God face to face..they didn’t know Him as the God in all things, but knew Him in a relationship way, face to face. Yet they didn’t obey Him and when that happened that’s when everything went bad for us.

No, eating the fruit was disobedience not wholeness, after that act we felt separated from God because we were separated from God, He forced them out of the garden and they had to learn to live without seeing God and knowing Him face to face. That’s the separation that people feel.

Christianity is God brining people back to Him in a way that satisfies His justice and His holiness. We might not like the way its done, as it makes up realize that it was our sin that separates us from Him, not anything He did. Jesus His only begotten Son was the only One who could make the sacrifice being Holy God and holy human. He’s the One who was able to fulfill the law, being born human made Him under the law and being God made it possible to obey it fully. He knew no sin, yet became sin when He took the sins of all of us on Him while on the cross. He didn’t die for His sins, He didn’t have any, but He took ours upon Him. God sacrifices Himself to return us into a relationship with Him. That’s what Jesus was all about. And, we also, if we believe won’t perish in the lake of fire where there’s weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Who are these millions of Christians that developed into worse humans?

I don’t think muslims realize their own sins to higher degree. Why then would they want to force people to convert to islam? Why would they cover their women so that those women wouldn’t tempt them to r*pe them? Doesn’t sound like they realize their own sins, but do what people have always done since Adam and Eve..blame someone else...

Its Jesus that says He is the vine and we are the branches...we aren’t merging with a church but with God, only if we remain in Him, remaining in Him is key.

The trinity is in the gospels.
John 3:16
God sent His only begotten Son that whomsoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
It‘s Jesus then who sends the Holy Spirit, the helper to help us while He’s back in heaven sitting at the right hand of God.
John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
‭‭
Hebrews‬ ‭10:12‬ ‭
But He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD.”​
‭‭
 





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#53
@Lisa
1) i know what scripture says..but the fact is everything exists because of God, inc evil. If God wanted to create a perfect world without evil, He could have. He didn't.
This is not about the accountability of sin, this is about the nature of sin. When self-awareness begins, evil comes into existence.
The reason im pointing this out is because you act like God is doing us a favour in your version of theology, like 'omg we were suffering from this shit evil that God didnt even want for us, and it's all satan's fault..then God sent his only begotten son and he saved us'.
That type of idea only makes sense in a dualistic religion like zoroastrianism or mandaeism where the Good God co-exists wih the Evil God and they both have different roles. Since you don't believe in a dualistic theology, you attribute all things to God, therefore good and evil obv come from God.
if the bible says 'God didnt create evil' then im sorry but that is just a convenient mythos for some basic people, it isnt clearly true, it cannot ever be true..since God clearly created evil and made it so we commit evil.
As for this idea that we have choice and it's our fault if we choose evil...well, we came pre-coded to have certain traits..and those traits govern the way we make choices. A baby has little choice in it's actions..and when that baby grows into an adult whocan think rationally..he/she is still dominated by nature..already shaped.
You blame the code if a program has faults, you don't blame the characters in the program.
Telling people to not blame God ie 'God didnt create evil' is just a convenient mythos. For me, it is perfectly okay to know that God created evil, because i look at evil as a necessary experience towards the greater good which Jesus represented. So to me Jesus is more like the natural solution to a natural problem...it isnt about 'man was so evil and only God could save us' it's more like 'we had to endure and suffer under the evil God put on us...so we could arrive at a greater solution'..and at that point you lose attachment to fruits and appreciate the greater truth. However that position only comes to people who are utterly devastated with daily life. when people are already satisfied, they dont really wish to disappear as a drop and 'merge' with the ocean..nor do they wish to share all their fruits. So suffering with evil, around us, within us, is necessary and a good thing.


2) Adam and Eve before the 'fruit' existed like children, lacking real self-awareness. The fruit is also metaphorical in the sense that in this world we're attached to fruits...forgetting that the fruits and the tree only exist because of the light.
In fact that is what Jesus represents, the light that gives life to the trees. It reminds me of a hindu saying
"the tree abundant with fruits lowers itself for others to enjoy" with the implication being that the tree does not care for fruits, it only cares for light and water (and Jesus represents both too).
evil is our desire/craving which the fruit represents, yet the fruit itself is not evil. It is only evil when we lose sight of the greater truth.
So for example the entity called Iblees (satan) was a jinn, a seraph, who transmuted the fire of desire into a wholesome fire, upwards..and because the angels of light don't posess this fire, the seraph was able to climb to a far far higher level. The moment Iblees became aware of Adam (representing the material world), that fire turned into burning fire. That is why the jewish tradition are the highest angels aswell as wicked serpents.

So eating the fruit, was a natural process, it wasn't a choice. it wasnt a choice that Adam and Eve felt temptation and it wasnt a choice that they craved to live forever. living 'forever' is being ONE in consciousness which is what the logos represents.
Taking blame for choosing to eat the fruit, is taking the blame for possessing desire, which is taking blame for even existing and being self-aware, recognising their own limitations and wanting more.

3) You wrote
Who are these millions of Christians that developed into worse humans?

I don’t think muslims realize their own sins to higher degree. Why then would they want to force people to convert to islam? Why would they cover their women so that those women wouldn’t tempt them to r*pe them? Doesn’t sound like they realize their own sins, but do what people have always done since Adam and Eve..blame someone else...

Its Jesus that says He is the vine and we are the branches...we aren’t merging with a church but with God, only if we remain in Him, remaining in Him is key.


Stop acting stupid. It is the same christians who Jesus wills ay to 'get away from me'. go on google and read up on the experiences of many many many christians who have become 'born again' (by your idea of what being born again actually means) and then suffering with temptation. in fact many say they became worse. so it seems clearly they werent saved from their nature of evil.
Muslims realise our own sins, that's why we know we will either suffer in this life for our sins, or suffer during death, or suffer in the grave, or suffer in hell-fire...but above all that we believe Allah is ALL-FORGIVING and easy to seek forgiveness and mercy from.

You like to act like islam is this extreme religion, it isnt, it is far more forgiving because muslims know that we all fall short, no one is perfect, what matters is intention and trying better. Yvonne Ridley was confronted by the taliban guys..they told her that they only wish she reads the Quran when she returns home, so she did and she converted.
these fake beheadings going on, are western drama shows you see on your news channels, they're not real.
9/11 was fake, and trump even admitted obama created isis. The same way al nusra is al qaeeda and they are also cia projects..al nusra works with israel and the west for western interests...western media is also very open on this fact.
So all these shitty images you have of islam are totally false. There is far far more going on, with false flag attacks and propaganda against muslims.

Christianity was forced during the roman times and colonial times...whilst christians lived in europe away from other religions after wiping them out (eg celtic pagans, norse pagans, russian pagans, balkan pagans...wiping out the religions in the americas etc). Muslims went to lands where other religions hinduism, buddhism, christianity, judaism and more..and those religions still exist in large number. it is only recent that jews left persia, yemen and n.africa.

Under islamic rules of india, india was the worlds richest place 3 times over...but today because hindus are shit people, they attack islam and kiss upto the colonialists, despite the british robbing £45 trillion in todays money from india during colonialism.

Why would they cover their women so that those women wouldn’t tempt them to r*pe them? Doesn’t sound like they realize their own sins
islam tells men and women to lower our gaze..and men have to also dress modestly. Look at the clothes men wear in the muslim world.
Women are told to cover up so men don't view them as sexual objects....
what islam deals with, is our nature...and it is natural for men and women to attract each other, so we have segregation in the mosque.
in christianity on the otherhand, you're mixed in church...so if i was sat in church next to a hot girl...i would feel natural temptation esp if she was giving me the eyes lmao...i would know for sure she's down to F. So yeh that would really not be good for me spiritually would it?
the mosque is a sanctuary away from that..and yet the church really isnt.
You aren't protected spiritually...Christianity civilisation is spiritually fallen and has dragged the rest of the world down with it.
 





Lisa

Superstar
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#54
@Lisa
1) i know what scripture says..but the fact is everything exists because of God, inc evil. If God wanted to create a perfect world without evil, He could have. He didn't.
This is not about the accountability of sin, this is about the nature of sin. When self-awareness begins, evil comes into existence.
The reason im pointing this out is because you act like God is doing us a favour in your version of theology, like 'omg we were suffering from this shit evil that God didnt even want for us, and it's all satan's fault..then God sent his only begotten son and he saved us'.
That type of idea only makes sense in a dualistic religion like zoroastrianism or mandaeism where the Good God co-exists wih the Evil God and they both have different roles. Since you don't believe in a dualistic theology, you attribute all things to God, therefore good and evil obv come from God.
if the bible says 'God didnt create evil' then im sorry but that is just a convenient mythos for some basic people, it isnt clearly true, it cannot ever be true..since God clearly created evil and made it so we commit evil.
As for this idea that we have choice and it's our fault if we choose evil...well, we came pre-coded to have certain traits..and those traits govern the way we make choices. A baby has little choice in it's actions..and when that baby grows into an adult whocan think rationally..he/she is still dominated by nature..already shaped.
You blame the code if a program has faults, you don't blame the characters in the program.
Telling people to not blame God ie 'God didnt create evil' is just a convenient mythos. For me, it is perfectly okay to know that God created evil, because i look at evil as a necessary experience towards the greater good which Jesus represented. So to me Jesus is more like the natural solution to a natural problem...it isnt about 'man was so evil and only God could save us' it's more like 'we had to endure and suffer under the evil God put on us...so we could arrive at a greater solution'..and at that point you lose attachment to fruits and appreciate the greater truth. However that position only comes to people who are utterly devastated with daily life. when people are already satisfied, they dont really wish to disappear as a drop and 'merge' with the ocean..nor do they wish to share all their fruits. So suffering with evil, around us, within us, is necessary and a good thing.


2) Adam and Eve before the 'fruit' existed like children, lacking real self-awareness. The fruit is also metaphorical in the sense that in this world we're attached to fruits...forgetting that the fruits and the tree only exist because of the light.
In fact that is what Jesus represents, the light that gives life to the trees. It reminds me of a hindu saying
"the tree abundant with fruits lowers itself for others to enjoy" with the implication being that the tree does not care for fruits, it only cares for light and water (and Jesus represents both too).
evil is our desire/craving which the fruit represents, yet the fruit itself is not evil. It is only evil when we lose sight of the greater truth.
So for example the entity called Iblees (satan) was a jinn, a seraph, who transmuted the fire of desire into a wholesome fire, upwards..and because the angels of light don't posess this fire, the seraph was able to climb to a far far higher level. The moment Iblees became aware of Adam (representing the material world), that fire turned into burning fire. That is why the jewish tradition are the highest angels aswell as wicked serpents.

So eating the fruit, was a natural process, it wasn't a choice. it wasnt a choice that Adam and Eve felt temptation and it wasnt a choice that they craved to live forever. living 'forever' is being ONE in consciousness which is what the logos represents.
Taking blame for choosing to eat the fruit, is taking the blame for possessing desire, which is taking blame for even existing and being self-aware, recognising their own limitations and wanting more.

3) You wrote
Who are these millions of Christians that developed into worse humans?

I don’t think muslims realize their own sins to higher degree. Why then would they want to force people to convert to islam? Why would they cover their women so that those women wouldn’t tempt them to r*pe them? Doesn’t sound like they realize their own sins, but do what people have always done since Adam and Eve..blame someone else...

Its Jesus that says He is the vine and we are the branches...we aren’t merging with a church but with God, only if we remain in Him, remaining in Him is key.

Stop acting stupid. It is the same christians who Jesus wills ay to 'get away from me'. go on google and read up on the experiences of many many many christians who have become 'born again' (by your idea of what being born again actually means) and then suffering with temptation. in fact many say they became worse. so it seems clearly they werent saved from their nature of evil.
Muslims realise our own sins, that's why we know we will either suffer in this life for our sins, or suffer during death, or suffer in the grave, or suffer in hell-fire...but above all that we believe Allah is ALL-FORGIVING and easy to seek forgiveness and mercy from.

You like to act like islam is this extreme religion, it isnt, it is far more forgiving because muslims know that we all fall short, no one is perfect, what matters is intention and trying better. Yvonne Ridley was confronted by the taliban guys..they told her that they only wish she reads the Quran when she returns home, so she did and she converted.
these fake beheadings going on, are western drama shows you see on your news channels, they're not real.
9/11 was fake, and trump even admitted obama created isis. The same way al nusra is al qaeeda and they are also cia projects..al nusra works with israel and the west for western interests...western media is also very open on this fact.
So all these shitty images you have of islam are totally false. There is far far more going on, with false flag attacks and propaganda against muslims.

Christianity was forced during the roman times and colonial times...whilst christians lived in europe away from other religions after wiping them out (eg celtic pagans, norse pagans, russian pagans, balkan pagans...wiping out the religions in the americas etc). Muslims went to lands where other religions hinduism, buddhism, christianity, judaism and more..and those religions still exist in large number. it is only recent that jews left persia, yemen and n.africa.

Under islamic rules of india, india was the worlds richest place 3 times over...but today because hindus are shit people, they attack islam and kiss upto the colonialists, despite the british robbing £45 trillion in todays money from india during colonialism.

Why would they cover their women so that those women wouldn’t tempt them to r*pe them? Doesn’t sound like they realize their own sins
islam tells men and women to lower our gaze..and men have to also dress modestly. Look at the clothes men wear in the muslim world.
Women are told to cover up so men don't view them as sexual objects....
what islam deals with, is our nature...and it is natural for men and women to attract each other, so we have segregation in the mosque.
in christianity on the otherhand, you're mixed in church...so if i was sat in church next to a hot girl...i would feel natural temptation esp if she was giving me the eyes lmao...i would know for sure she's down to F. So yeh that would really not be good for me spiritually would it?
the mosque is a sanctuary away from that..and yet the church really isnt.
You aren't protected spiritually...Christianity civilisation is spiritually fallen and has dragged the rest of the world down with it.
1.) I know what scripture says...but isn’t a good starting point for you in your argument against. If you know what scripture says, thats the truth, no If’s and’s or but’s about it.

God didn’t make creation bad nor did He make it evil, but He did make it so that man who was made in His image could have free will, even the free will to go against God. Would you call that evil too? If you make it in your mind that God created evil, than it gets you off the hook, doesn’t it? God created it that way, so I’m not on the hook for the offenses that I’ve done, when the Bible says that God created a good world without sin. Sin entered the world through the disobedience of Adam and Eve, before that everything was good.

God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden and even spoke to them. However, that all changed and their eyes were opened when they ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Perhaps they were naive before that since they were naked, but they were warned ahead of time, at least Adam was when God told him not to eat the fruit from a particular tree. Its not like they couldn’t eat from a few specific trees, just the one....

And ya, God did us a favor by taking our sin upon Himself and saving us from sin and its punishment. He could have just let us all go to the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. We don’t have to do anything but believe on Jesus to be saved..pretty easy considering what Jesus endured...
Isaiah‬ ‭53:3-7, 10-11‬ ‭​
He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

2.) a.) they wanted to eat to eat the fruit and did even though they knew they shouldn’t. b.) the devil tempted them in the garden to disobey God telling them that God was holding out on them and by eating the fruit they will be like Him..which is something satan himself is also wanting to. We all want to go our own way, do our own thing and we don’t really want God getting in the way of that. c.) God told them what would happen if/when they did do it.
Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭
Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.“​
‭‭
So, obviously, God intended for Adam to obey Him and warned him of what would happen if he didn’t. So, then you can’t really blame God for what happened.

3.) Ya, Idk what Christians you are talking about. It’s not an easy road to be a Christian and follow God, that’s for sure. We are a lot like the Israelites when we want to follow God but we also want to follow our own lusts..however that’s why God gave us the Holy Spirit as a helper to us because He knows we can’t do it on our own.

Thanks for showing me that muslims don’t take responsibility for what they do...everyone is to be blamed for terrorism but the ones doing it? Really?

Wow! I can only say wow! A girl wants to because she looks at you, that is crazy. That is what is wrong with islam..that’s not real life aspiring. I get that there has to be some distance between the 2 sexes because of sex, but some woman looking at you doesn’t mean she wants you to have sex with her. That’s so unfair and again its blaming the woman for your thoughts...

Actually in Christianity we are told that we are a new creation in Christ, the old has passed away and new things have come. It is a better way, we aren’t fooling ourselves that we can do better on own, we understand we are sinners and without God we can’t live up to His standards.

You can’t wrap women up enough to stop the rapes. You can’t blame everyone else for terrorist atrocities that your book tells you to do, that your own prophet did to others in his time that you are told to emulate. You can’t do enough good to wipe out the evil in your hearts.
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?​
 





Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
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#55
1.) I know what scripture says...but isn’t a good starting point for you in your argument against. If you know what scripture says, thats the truth, no If’s and’s or but’s about it.

God didn’t make creation bad nor did He make it evil, but He did make it so that man who was made in His image could have free will, even the free will to go against God. Would you call that evil too? If you make it in your mind that God created evil, than it gets you off the hook, doesn’t it? God created it that way, so I’m not on the hook for the offenses that I’ve done, when the Bible says that God created a good world without sin. Sin entered the world through the disobedience of Adam and Eve, before that everything was good.

God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden and even spoke to them. However, that all changed and their eyes were opened when they ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Perhaps they were naive before that since they were naked, but they were warned ahead of time, at least Adam was when God told him not to eat the fruit from a particular tree. Its not like they couldn’t eat from a few specific trees, just the one....

And ya, God did us a favor by taking our sin upon Himself and saving us from sin and its punishment. He could have just let us all go to the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. We don’t have to do anything but believe on Jesus to be saved..pretty easy considering what Jesus endured...
Isaiah‬ ‭53:3-7, 10-11‬ ‭​
He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.

But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

2.) a.) they wanted to eat to eat the fruit and did even though they knew they shouldn’t. b.) the devil tempted them in the garden to disobey God telling them that God was holding out on them and by eating the fruit they will be like Him..which is something satan himself is also wanting to. We all want to go our own way, do our own thing and we don’t really want God getting in the way of that. c.) God told them what would happen if/when they did do it.
Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭​

Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.“​
‭‭
So, obviously, God intended for Adam to obey Him and warned him of what would happen if he didn’t. So, then you can’t really blame God for what happened.

3.) Ya, Idk what Christians you are talking about. It’s not an easy road to be a Christian and follow God, that’s for sure. We are a lot like the Israelites when we want to follow God but we also want to follow our own lusts..however that’s why God gave us the Holy Spirit as a helper to us because He knows we can’t do it on our own.

Thanks for showing me that muslims don’t take responsibility for what they do...everyone is to be blamed for terrorism but the ones doing it? Really?

Wow! I can only say wow! A girl wants to because she looks at you, that is crazy. That is what is wrong with islam..that’s not real life aspiring. I get that there has to be some distance between the 2 sexes because of sex, but some woman looking at you doesn’t mean she wants you to have sex with her. That’s so unfair and again its blaming the woman for your thoughts...

Actually in Christianity we are told that we are a new creation in Christ, the old has passed away and new things have come. It is a better way, we aren’t fooling ourselves that we can do better on own, we understand we are sinners and without God we can’t live up to His standards.

You can’t wrap women up enough to stop the rapes. You can’t blame everyone else for terrorist atrocities that your book tells you to do, that your own prophet did to others in his time that you are told to emulate. You can’t do enough good to wipe out the evil in your hearts.
Jeremiah 17:9​

The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?​
1) By the very existence of evil...and God as the Creator of all things...God created evil, that is simple logic. if the bible states God did not create evil, then i question the mythos behind that statement, as in, it's intent and who it was intended to and what it's point actually was.

2) So God intended for man to obey Him? then why did God allow us to have an evil nature? Seriously you're lost on this.

3) Please don't conveniently act ignorant about the fact that every kind of sin is prevalent amongst christians and was for a lot longer than it was with muslims. muslims, just like any other group of people in the world, have succumbed to evil...but christian society is where it began.
I'm not even judging people, im not judging christians..i'm judging the wild claims you make about being divinely inspired by the holy spirit. It is an insult to me...i don't believe you have any connection with the holy spirit. I believe due to your false non-biblical beliefs...you have been cut off from the tree.

For example, this is what you wrote earlier which i forgot to call you out on
Its Jesus that says He is the vine and we are the branches...we aren’t merging with a church but with God, only if we remain in Him, remaining in Him is key.

here's what it says
John 15
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.


the churches are built on the apostles and are the connection to Jesus. It says so in Revelation 2. If the church falls, then the connection to Jesus falls.
Look at how you capitalised 'Him' when talking about Jesus...yet Jesus as the 'vine' has no say on who remains in him, it is GOD The Father who is the Garderner, who cuts off the bad branches.

So you've made a point, that 'only IF we remain in HIM' but why would the real God, The Father, allow you to remain in the vine/The Son, when you yourself have made the Son into God? If the Son is the 'Vine' and God the Father is the Gardener, it proves that the Son has NO power except by the Will of God.
That is why Jesus states
"the Son can do nothing on his own"
"it is the Father doing these things through me"
"no one knows the last hour except the Father, not even the Son"
how in the hell does that make Jesus God?
hence my point...the christians do not have the correct belief, in that sense you are like the israelites in Egypt..and that is why God sent the LAW through Prophet Mohammad.

4) i'm making this a seperate point because it's a seperate topic.
Thanks for showing me that muslims don’t take responsibility for what they do...everyone is to be blamed for terrorism but the ones doing it? Really?
was there terrorism in Iraq before the US invasion? in Afghanistan? in Pakistan? in Syria?
do you want to pretend that the western narrative is real? do you really believe the US media and government?
Trump himself has recently stated that OBAMA created ISIS.
I'm sorry but you need to really wake up and know what type of world you live in.
Terrorism involves murdering innocent women, elderly and children, civilians, non combatants. That is completely against islam and whilst you will purposely not allow yourself to accept that basic fact, im sure many who read this know it's the truth.

Furthermore my point was to illustrate that muslims lived with minorities and larger religious groups like hindus, christians etc..throughout it's history...and yet the mere fact they have only recently began to leave muslim countries, proves that at the very least they have existed amongst us for 1000+yrs. Why weren'tt hey slaughtered long before if that was our position towards them?
muslims ruled india for 800+ yrs you know? how come hindus outnumber muslims 3 times over? you are completely clueless on the wealth of history between muslims and hindus and many other groups.
You were trying to make out that muslims only know how to kill non-muslims and don't know how to live with them. This is only a recent, post-colonial problem.

5) I wrote
"what islam deals with, is our nature...and it is natural for men and women to attract each other, so we have segregation in the mosque.
in christianity on the otherhand, you're mixed in church...so if i was sat in church next to a hot girl...i would feel natural temptation esp if she was giving me the eyes lmao...i would know for sure she's down to F. So yeh that would really not be good for me spiritually would it?"


You do realise the actual point here? the mosque/church is a sacred sanctuary where we're supposed to focus on Allah and our relationship with Him. It is not meant to be a place for guys and girls to potentially hook up. The scenario i gave is from my perspective eg if i'm in a church sat next to a girl who's clearly interested in me and i find her hot, we're hooking up for sure.
That wouldn't even happen in a mosque because we're segregated and it's something most mosques are careful about.
In fact i would imagine in that type of setting, people are more emotionally open..because it's a non-formal environment.

so i just googled this and here's what came up
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlWKsH9F011jYfuoSl0TOVFt1KZEUw_xV
i know for sure that you're also against this..but the point is this is what happens when there are no rules in religion.
islam does have rules.
actually i know some american muslims from NY who told me their mosque is mixed now...not with jamaat congregation but with regular events it is mixed..and yes, they most def do hook up.
i know when i was younger i had friends going to the US to the events like ISNA...it was one big fuck fest for teen muslims...boys and girls went there purely to lose their virginity.

lust begins with the eyes...and let's use the church or the mosque, places of worship as examples
in a mixed setting where you have women and men sat side by side..it is easily possible that a man and woman will see each other up close and attract each other.

You wrote
You can’t wrap women up enough to stop the rapes. You can’t blame everyone else for terrorist atrocities that your book tells you to do, that your own prophet did to others in his time that you are told to emulate. You can’t do enough good to wipe out the evil in your hearts.

look at r*pe stats
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/r*pe-statistics-by-country/
Australia, USA, NZ, Belgium, Iceland etc..
far more prevalant than in muslim countries.

Why do you have to make shit up? yes of course there are rapes amongst muslims and of course even moreso amongst the worst ethnic groups who usually are uncivilised..
example
the Afghans were practicing bacha bazi, raping boys..and of course girls and women too...
it was a lawless society, no police, no standing army, no government...
what happened when the Taliban took over Afghanistan? the first thing they did was they publicly killed everyone involved in bacha bazi, literally..they hung people left right centre...but more importantly they banned the trade of poppy...as in cocaine...and so the US/cia came running because in truth the biggest profiteers of cocaine are the CIA.
of course you will jump around from pillar to post saying 'muslims dont accept responsibility' but when were muslims allowed to self govern?
we live in a world where you know full well the elite, the people with money, power and the technology...are blatantly pushing for a satanic system..and yet those same people have targetted muslim countries. when you see shit come out of muslim countries in a post colonial context where most of these places are lawless and uneducated, how the hell are you going to blame islam?

When antiochus epiphanes invaded Judea and began to force people to worship and follow hellenistic beliefs/culture and language..in Daniel it said
It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
a person who claims to follow an Abrahimic religion should be 10 steps ahead and know for sure that the masonic/luciferian world order...mystery babylon..is what rules us..and out of that context, religion has little chance.
islam and christianity are going to DIE before Jesus returns..they arent going to exist like they are today. They are being targetted.

Btw do you mind explaining why you've never spent time talking about the 'terrorism' done in by Old Testament prophets?

2 Samuel 8:14
He put garrisons in Edom; throughout all Edom he put garrisons, and all the Edomites became David’s servants. And the Lord gave victory to David wherever he went.
how come you are so eagre to talk about 'muslim subjugation' but nothing here?
David made ALL the edomites his servants...
it was okay because you think 'God gave him that victory' yet muslims believe the same for our prophet. The act is still the same.
Furthermore, just like the kings of Judea and Israel killed many people...they did it for themselves and usually they were against against God.
It is the same with muslims. For example there were mughal kings who killed their own fathers/brothers to take power. There were mughal kings who loved sikhs and hindus..and ther were mughal kings who hated sikhs and hindus. There were mughal kings who persecuted everyone the same...and this applies to many dynasties of muslim rule.
Why is it when you speak about muslim history, you make it a specific muslim problem? read the OT, those kings acted on their own and God removed them from power.

in the Torah it says
Deuteronomy 23:7
You shall not abhor any of the Edomites, for they are your kin. You shall not abhor any of the Egyptians, because you were an alien residing in their land.

yet
2 Samuel 8:13
David won a name for himself. When he returned, he killed eighteen thousand Edomites in the Valley of Salt.

please, talk about this.
 





Joined
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Messages
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#59
Who are those people?
christians, click on the youtube link
im not mocking when i shared that but pointing out that many christians recognise there's a major major problem in the churches..and so many comments have christians saying 'i no longer go to church for THIS reason'
they know that churches have become places where women want to look good and be seen by the men..and where the men want to show off their posessions or their woman to other men..and so forth.
so far that hasnt happened to muslims on that level..because we have some rules.

we all deal with the same shit.

my point earlier about 'eyes' was about sexual signals..i wouldnt want to go to mosque and get put in that situation.
you're like 'omg so a girl looks at you and you think she wants to have sex with you?'
err yeh..in most contexts that is exactly what it means, there are normal looks and there are appreciative looks and there are outright sexual signals. it's normal biology, but i wouldnt want that anywhere near a mosque.
 





Lisa

Superstar
Joined
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Messages
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3,913
#60
1) By the very existence of evil...and God as the Creator of all things...God created evil, that is simple logic. if the bible states God did not create evil, then i question the mythos behind that statement, as in, it's intent and who it was intended to and what it's point actually was.

2) So God intended for man to obey Him? then why did God allow us to have an evil nature? Seriously you're lost on this.

3) Please don't conveniently act ignorant about the fact that every kind of sin is prevalent amongst christians and was for a lot longer than it was with muslims. muslims, just like any other group of people in the world, have succumbed to evil...but christian society is where it began.
I'm not even judging people, im not judging christians..i'm judging the wild claims you make about being divinely inspired by the holy spirit. It is an insult to me...i don't believe you have any connection with the holy spirit. I believe due to your false non-biblical beliefs...you have been cut off from the tree.

For example, this is what you wrote earlier which i forgot to call you out on
Its Jesus that says He is the vine and we are the branches...we aren’t merging with a church but with God, only if we remain in Him, remaining in Him is key.

here's what it says
John 15
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.


the churches are built on the apostles and are the connection to Jesus. It says so in Revelation 2. If the church falls, then the connection to Jesus falls.
Look at how you capitalised 'Him' when talking about Jesus...yet Jesus as the 'vine' has no say on who remains in him, it is GOD The Father who is the Garderner, who cuts off the bad branches.

So you've made a point, that 'only IF we remain in HIM' but why would the real God, The Father, allow you to remain in the vine/The Son, when you yourself have made the Son into God? If the Son is the 'Vine' and God the Father is the Gardener, it proves that the Son has NO power except by the Will of God.
That is why Jesus states
"the Son can do nothing on his own"
"it is the Father doing these things through me"
"no one knows the last hour except the Father, not even the Son"
how in the hell does that make Jesus God?
hence my point...the christians do not have the correct belief, in that sense you are like the israelites in Egypt..and that is why God sent the LAW through Prophet Mohammad.

4) i'm making this a seperate point because it's a seperate topic.
Thanks for showing me that muslims don’t take responsibility for what they do...everyone is to be blamed for terrorism but the ones doing it? Really?
was there terrorism in Iraq before the US invasion? in Afghanistan? in Pakistan? in Syria?
do you want to pretend that the western narrative is real? do you really believe the US media and government?
Trump himself has recently stated that OBAMA created ISIS.
I'm sorry but you need to really wake up and know what type of world you live in.
Terrorism involves murdering innocent women, elderly and children, civilians, non combatants. That is completely against islam and whilst you will purposely not allow yourself to accept that basic fact, im sure many who read this know it's the truth.

Furthermore my point was to illustrate that muslims lived with minorities and larger religious groups like hindus, christians etc..throughout it's history...and yet the mere fact they have only recently began to leave muslim countries, proves that at the very least they have existed amongst us for 1000+yrs. Why weren'tt hey slaughtered long before if that was our position towards them?
muslims ruled india for 800+ yrs you know? how come hindus outnumber muslims 3 times over? you are completely clueless on the wealth of history between muslims and hindus and many other groups.
You were trying to make out that muslims only know how to kill non-muslims and don't know how to live with them. This is only a recent, post-colonial problem.

5) I wrote
"what islam deals with, is our nature...and it is natural for men and women to attract each other, so we have segregation in the mosque.
in christianity on the otherhand, you're mixed in church...so if i was sat in church next to a hot girl...i would feel natural temptation esp if she was giving me the eyes lmao...i would know for sure she's down to F. So yeh that would really not be good for me spiritually would it?"


You do realise the actual point here? the mosque/church is a sacred sanctuary where we're supposed to focus on Allah and our relationship with Him. It is not meant to be a place for guys and girls to potentially hook up. The scenario i gave is from my perspective eg if i'm in a church sat next to a girl who's clearly interested in me and i find her hot, we're hooking up for sure.
That wouldn't even happen in a mosque because we're segregated and it's something most mosques are careful about.
In fact i would imagine in that type of setting, people are more emotionally open..because it's a non-formal environment.

so i just googled this and here's what came up
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlWKsH9F011jYfuoSl0TOVFt1KZEUw_xV
i know for sure that you're also against this..but the point is this is what happens when there are no rules in religion.
islam does have rules.
actually i know some american muslims from NY who told me their mosque is mixed now...not with jamaat congregation but with regular events it is mixed..and yes, they most def do hook up.
i know when i was younger i had friends going to the US to the events like ISNA...it was one big fuck fest for teen muslims...boys and girls went there purely to lose their virginity.

lust begins with the eyes...and let's use the church or the mosque, places of worship as examples
in a mixed setting where you have women and men sat side by side..it is easily possible that a man and woman will see each other up close and attract each other.

You wrote
You can’t wrap women up enough to stop the rapes. You can’t blame everyone else for terrorist atrocities that your book tells you to do, that your own prophet did to others in his time that you are told to emulate. You can’t do enough good to wipe out the evil in your hearts.

look at r*pe stats
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/r*pe-statistics-by-country/
Australia, USA, NZ, Belgium, Iceland etc..
far more prevalant than in muslim countries.

Why do you have to make shit up? yes of course there are rapes amongst muslims and of course even moreso amongst the worst ethnic groups who usually are uncivilised..
example
the Afghans were practicing bacha bazi, raping boys..and of course girls and women too...
it was a lawless society, no police, no standing army, no government...
what happened when the Taliban took over Afghanistan? the first thing they did was they publicly killed everyone involved in bacha bazi, literally..they hung people left right centre...but more importantly they banned the trade of poppy...as in cocaine...and so the US/cia came running because in truth the biggest profiteers of cocaine are the CIA.
of course you will jump around from pillar to post saying 'muslims dont accept responsibility' but when were muslims allowed to self govern?
we live in a world where you know full well the elite, the people with money, power and the technology...are blatantly pushing for a satanic system..and yet those same people have targetted muslim countries. when you see shit come out of muslim countries in a post colonial context where most of these places are lawless and uneducated, how the hell are you going to blame islam?

When antiochus epiphanes invaded Judea and began to force people to worship and follow hellenistic beliefs/culture and language..in Daniel it said
It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
a person who claims to follow an Abrahimic religion should be 10 steps ahead and know for sure that the masonic/luciferian world order...mystery babylon..is what rules us..and out of that context, religion has little chance.
islam and christianity are going to DIE before Jesus returns..they arent going to exist like they are today. They are being targetted.

Btw do you mind explaining why you've never spent time talking about the 'terrorism' done in by Old Testament prophets?

2 Samuel 8:14
He put garrisons in Edom; throughout all Edom he put garrisons, and all the Edomites became David’s servants. And the Lord gave victory to David wherever he went.
how come you are so eagre to talk about 'muslim subjugation' but nothing here?
David made ALL the edomites his servants...
it was okay because you think 'God gave him that victory' yet muslims believe the same for our prophet. The act is still the same.
Furthermore, just like the kings of Judea and Israel killed many people...they did it for themselves and usually they were against against God.
It is the same with muslims. For example there were mughal kings who killed their own fathers/brothers to take power. There were mughal kings who loved sikhs and hindus..and ther were mughal kings who hated sikhs and hindus. There were mughal kings who persecuted everyone the same...and this applies to many dynasties of muslim rule.
Why is it when you speak about muslim history, you make it a specific muslim problem? read the OT, those kings acted on their own and God removed them from power.

in the Torah it says
Deuteronomy 23:7
You shall not abhor any of the Edomites, for they are your kin. You shall not abhor any of the Egyptians, because you were an alien residing in their land.

yet
2 Samuel 8:13
David won a name for himself. When he returned, he killed eighteen thousand Edomites in the Valley of Salt.

please, talk about this.
1.) That isn’t true at all. God did not create evil. He created the world and everything in it. He made man in His image with free will. He warned Adam about not eating the fruit, but He did not force Adam to not eat of it. The Bible talks about God saying all of His creating was good, even man. But...evil did come into the world when Adam and Eve at the fruit..that’s when evil happened..their actions brought curses and death upon us and sin.

2.)I think you’re the lost one. You simply cannot look at it as man’s fault not God’s. If you looked at it as man’s fault, then there might be hope for you to understand that you’re a sinner in need of a savior.

3.) The Holy Spirit coming into my heart is Biblical
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
I don’t understand you’re saying that Christian society is where evil began.

Jesus is the cornerstone, everything revolves around Jesus and His sacrifice and not around the apostles. They are witnesses to Jesus and what He said. Jesus is the vine, He is the one that Christians are in when we believe that is why He is called the vine..we are the branches off that vine that can bear fruit or whither and die-bears no fruit. Notice we can’t bear fruit unless we are a branch on the vine. You can’t bear fruit on your own and in your own power.

Revelation 2 tells us the different ways the church will be in the end times. They will have good points and also bad points where Jesus tells them to repent and come back to Him. One doesn’t have any bad in it and will be physically saved from the wrath of God-the rapture.

Who has say in who remains in Him? Some will fall away from the faith. Jesus is our light, where He shows us how its done to obey God’s will, being half human, He should follow God’s will.

4.) I don’t believe that muslims aren’t able to make any decisions themselves and are manipulated into doing things they don’t really want to do. So, anyone can say its this persons fault, or that persons fault for the creation of isis or any other muslims terrorist group, however, your own book talks about terrorizing non muslims and also beheading those who don’t believe.

That non muslims weren’t completely wiped out can possibly be due to the jizya and slavery. I don’t completely remember everything I’ve studied a few years back about islam, I just remember the gist of it. The gist being that islam wants to conquer the world and bring sharia law everywhere. I don’t believe muslims are ready to conquer the whole world yet, but it does have bits and pieces of it, and recently moved into Western Europe where they are working on overtaking them...but they need more people. I am amazed at the patience of muslims anyway.

Does Pakistan live with India?

5.) Men and women in church sitting together don’t feel the need to hook up just because they sat together in the sanctuary. We can worship our God together and not feel that. That that’s all you think about when sitting next to a women, says more about you and your religion than not...

Sweden has so many rapes in that country due to the influx of muslim immigrants...in fact where the muslim immigrant goes crime increases in that country.

You are aware that there is the feet and toes of clay and iron. I once told you that I thought that islam was the iron...I think I might have been wrong and they are the clay, but the muslims look a lot stronger than whoever they could be aligning with at this point in time. But I do believe that the muslims are in league with whomever is in charge in the world. And I’m not talking the US or Israel, the real leaders of this world.

I blame islam because of its doctrine and its control over the ummah.

I don’t spend a lot of time talking about the OT and I wouldn’t call David a terrorist. I don’t see what talking about the Israelite history in the OT has to do with what is happening in the world today.