Bible verses contrasted with false teacher/s' doctrines

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
1668982325242.png

1668982013970.png

Using Ravi Zacharias as an example again, if he was saved:

his ministry has been destroyed, his website shut down, publishers are not selling his books, and Youtube presenters like the man above are publicly disowning Zacharias and deleting videos.

He is a cautionary tale to all those who believe that good works and keeping all biblical laws and customs are the way to salvation. He would have done WAY MORE Christian good works via personal evangelism and books than any commenters on this forum would imagine.
Zacharias needed a Saviour just like the rest of us - I hope he called on Jesus in time.
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
Who told you, you needed to be saved? From what? No other religion, philosophy, or way of thinking has such a requirement. Your books may say that. Your minister and priest tell you that. Life is a School. You need to graduate, not be saved from it.

"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." -- Buddha
1668982546114.png

1668982718182.png
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,931
That's what a book says.
Here’s a philosophical question…

If God is real and has had interactions with people for a significant time (who He would want to reveal Himself to) does it seem likely or unlikely that at least some of that self-disclosure would be captured in written form? In which case, the easy and dismissive “that’s what a book says” would be merely a sneer.

I find the “my path / your path” approach too much of eastern thought rather implausible as a form of divine revelation. Leaving the people He cares for groping is the dark of opinion and subjective feeling somehow doesn’t ring true.
 

A Freeman

Superstar
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,725
ALL worldly leaders of corporate fictional organized religions (priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, etc. -- "the blind leading the blind") and of corporate fictional governments, as well as the institutions themselves, have been repeatedly condemned throughout the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran/Quran.

Isaiah 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and lead thee astray, to thy destruction.

Matthew 7:13-14
7:13 Enter ye in at the "Strait" gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because Strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] The Way, which leadeth unto Life, and FEW* there be that find it.

*144,000 out of over 7,000,000,000 is very few (roughly 0.002% of the population)

Sura 9:107-111
9:107. And there are those who put up mosques (churches; synagogues; etc.), by way of mischief and BETRAYAL - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against "I AM" (Revelation 12:7) and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; but "I AM" doth declare that they are certainly LIARS.
9:108. NEVER stand thou forth therein. There is an Holy Place (Mt. Moriah) whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and "I AM" loveth those who make themselves pure.
9:109. Which then is best? - he that layeth his foundation on piety (a Rock - Matthew 7:24-27) to "I AM" and His Good Pleasure? - or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? And it doth crumble to pieces with him, into The Fire of Hell. And "I AM" guideth not people that do wrong (if they are doing wrong Satan is guiding them).
9:110. The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And "I AM" is All-Knowing, Wise.
9:111. "I AM" hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is The Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (The Torah), The Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and The Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than "I AM"? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of "I AM" written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.

CHRIST IS THE ONLY TEACHER (Mediator/Good Shepherd/High Priest). ALL others are false, regardless of how they may outwardly appear.

Matthew 23:8-10
23:8 But be not ye called priest (etc.): for One is your Teacher, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.

If you are not actively searching for the ONE Who fulfills ALL of the Scriptural Marks of Christ, Who promised to be here now, during these end-times in a new body with a new name, then you are blindly following a false teacher/false prophet/false christ.
 
Last edited:

Alanantic

Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
1,384
Here’s a philosophical question…

If God is real and has had interactions with people for a significant time (who He would want to reveal Himself to) does it seem likely or unlikely that at least some of that self-disclosure would be captured in written form? In which case, the easy and dismissive “that’s what a book says” would be merely a sneer.

I find the “my path / your path” approach too much of eastern thought rather implausible as a form of divine revelation. Leaving the people He cares for groping is the dark of opinion and subjective feeling somehow doesn’t ring true.
You've just legitimized every written scripture in the world. I'm okay with that. Just remember all written word is written by humans, not gods. Truth can be found in ALL of them, as can falsehood. Saying something is holy or sacred doesn't make it so. Most Christians are raised to think, "Jesus loves me, for the bible tells me so." It's considered a statement of fact, rather than a children's song.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,931
You've just legitimized every written scripture in the world. I'm okay with that. Just remember all written word is written by humans, not gods. Truth can be found in ALL of them, as can falsehood. Saying something is holy or sacred doesn't make it so. Most Christians are raised to think, "Jesus loves me, for the bible tells me so." It's considered a statement of fact, rather than a children's song.
I sense the bitterness towards what you have experienced of Christianity.

To your point about written scriptures, consider banknotes. The existence of real ones doesn’t preclude the circulation of fakes. Given that Satan is capable of deceiving people and inspiring writing (e.g. automatic writing, occult works etc) it doesn’t seem unreasonable to envisage a world of true and false “holy” writings.
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
1669086243457.png

What a different attitude that is to many religions and cults who teach that women are inferior to men!

Women have a different role, of wife and helper to their husband. That does not mean servant or slave.
1669086651810.png

If a Christian man treats his wife with love as commanded, the Christian wife should have a lot less trouble submitting as commanded.

1669086784052.png

Sadly from the earliest churches, at times women have been forced to submit excessively via deliberate misquoting and omission of balancing bible verses. Within Christian churches, alleged Christian denominations, false teachers and even mainstream churches today there has been abuse of all kinds, while pretending they are following God's commandments.

P.S. This is an issue close to my heart because over the years I have known personally a lot of survivors of domestic violence and sexual abuse from family members. I feel very strongly about needing to listen to girls and women when they are finally brave enough to talk.
 
Last edited:

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
Continuing from above:
contrast Ephesians 3:28
1669087721476.png

With Gnostic Gospel of THomas

1669087702207.png

The Gnostic verse has an incredibly different tone from the true bible verse.

For a more modern example of Gnostic-sounding words, pretending to be Christian-friendly:

12:65 Satan has “used” women; just as he did in the Garden of Eden, and has continued to do, throughout history; to do evil and get the eunuchs, in western governments (Matt. 19:12 - 2nd. type of eunuch), to change God’s Laws, and give equality to women, most of whom are not REALLY women. There is nothing feminine about them. They are trying to be men, in women’s bodies, without having EARNED their RIGHT to be men. p. 80
....
12:77 Women have brought this on themselves - Divine Justice - Karma - cause and effect - just desserts. When you REFUSE to obey God, you bring evil upon yourself (Honi soit qui mal y pense). p.81

From Jahtruth's "the way home or face the fire".
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,424
With Gnostic Gospel of THomas

View attachment 82608

The Gnostic verse has an incredibly different tone from the true bible verse.
This doesn't refer to sex, but to one's spiritual state. Becoming a man or becoming male means becoming spiritual (pneumatic). That's why the husband is the head of the wife (Eph 5:23), like Jesus / Christ is the head of the Church / Sophia.

IE: the soul must follow the Spirit.
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
This doesn't refer to sex, but to one's spiritual state. Becoming a man or becoming male means becoming spiritual (pneumatic). That's why the husband is the head of the wife (Eph 5:23), like Jesus / Christ is the head of the Church / Sophia.

IE: the soul must follow the Spirit.
Full passage Genesis 2:18-25.

1669109567809.png
Eve was made by God to be Adam's helper. There is nothing in the bible to suggest becoming spiritual means becoming male.
A person becomes spiritual by being born again. That is both men and women. A man is not more spiritual than a woman.
We were both made in God's image.

1669109403325.png
 

Attachments

Last edited:

A Freeman

Superstar
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,725
Continuing from above:
contrast Ephesians 3:28
View attachment 82609

With Gnostic Gospel of THomas

View attachment 82608

The Gnostic verse has an incredibly different tone from the true bible verse.

For a more modern example of Gnostic-sounding words, pretending to be Christian-friendly:

12:65 Satan has “used” women; just as he did in the Garden of Eden, and has continued to do, throughout history; to do evil and get the eunuchs, in western governments (Matt. 19:12 - 2nd. type of eunuch), to change God’s Laws, and give equality to women, most of whom are not REALLY women. There is nothing feminine about them. They are trying to be men, in women’s bodies, without having EARNED their RIGHT to be men. p. 80
....
12:77 Women have brought this on themselves - Divine Justice - Karma - cause and effect - just desserts. When you REFUSE to obey God, you bring evil upon yourself (Honi soit qui mal y pense). p.81

From Jahtruth's "the way home or face the fire".
If we take an honest look at what it says in the Bible, we find the following, life-giving instruction:

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be subject] to thy husband, and HE SHALL RULE OVER THEE.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1 Corinthians 11:7-9
11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
14:34 Let your women keep silence in the communities: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith The Law.
14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a disgrace for women to speak in the community.

Ephesians 5:22-29
5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the community: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24 Therefore as the community is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the community, and gave himself for it;
5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of [Living] water by the Word,
5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious community, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the community:

1 Timothy 2:11-15
2:11 Let the woman learn in SILENCE with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to USURP authority over the man, but TO BE IN SILENCE.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Titus 2:4-5
2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their [husband's] children,
2:5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

1 Peter 3:1-6
3:1 Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the Word, they also may without the Word be won by the conversation of the wives;
3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear.
3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
3:4 But [let it be] the hidden Man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, [even the ornament] of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

Isaiah 3:12 [As for] My people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and lead thee astray, TO THY DESTRUCTION.

It should be crystal clear that men and women are NOT equal, and never have been in God's Eyes. God created male and female humans to serve their instructive purposes, to teach us HUMILITY.

Women, who teach the exact opposite of what it says in Scripture, are only repeating what Eve did, choosing to do Satan's bidding instead of what God has COMMANDED. And, in so doing, they are blaspheming the word of God.

Anyone who does that, regardless of whether they are in a male or female body, will find themselves in The Fire on Judgment Day, exactly as we've been repeatedly warned for thousands of years (since the beginning).

No one that truly loves the souls (spiritual-Beings) inside female bodies would want that, which is why those currently in female bodies have been repeatedly and lovingly warned that women's liberation is satanic (and is destroying the basic family unit while it leads its blind followers into The Fire. But it's up to Father (God) and based upon their attitude whether their spiritual eyes and ears are open to such correction.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,424
A person becomes spiritual by being born again. That is both men and women. A man is not more spiritual than a woman.
We were both made in God's image.
Again, these are metaphores. There's more to scripture than just the somatic sense.

A person becomes spiritual ...

That is the meaning of a female becomes male.

Every soul, including men, not in Christ, is female. We are veiled, like the Ark on the Covenant, or in the reading of Moses (2 Cor 3:15), until we turn to ("marry") Christ ("the Husband"), in which the veil is taken away (2 Cor 3:16). This removal of the veil from the female when entering the bridal chamber is symbolized in the Christian wedding, signifying the marriage of the soul with the spirit, the union of the soul with God.
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
Men and women are different parts of the same body of Christ. We are not inferior or superior to each other. We have different functions. Women's roles in the church are often invisible, but the hidden organs of the body are the most essential for everyday life. e.g. No-one normally remembers the pancreas until it stops working (leading to diabetes).

1 Corinthians chapter 12 is directed to the WHOLE church - therefore both men and women.

1669188480420.png

1669188521215.png

If apostle Paul had wanted to say that women need to become more like men to be part of the Body of Christ, this would have been the place to do it.
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
Again, these are metaphores. There's more to scripture than just the somatic sense.

A person becomes spiritual ...

That is the meaning of a female becomes male.

Every soul, including men, not in Christ, is female. We are veiled, like the Ark on the Covenant, or in the reading of Moses (2 Cor 3:15), until we turn to ("marry") Christ ("the Husband"), in which the veil is taken away (2 Cor 3:16). This removal of the veil from the female when entering the bridal chamber is symbolized in the Christian wedding, signifying the marriage of the soul with the spirit, the union of the soul with God.
1669189147277.png

Where is the male/female concepts you suggest in that passage?
 

A Freeman

Superstar
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,725
Being able to discern between what is true/good (from God) and what is false/evil (from Satan) should be a simple matter. Unfortunately humans complicate everything, because all humans, whether they are male or female (there are no other genders - Gen. 1:27), can and frequently are used/influenced by Satan through sin (the pleasures and treasures that the flesh seeks for its own selfish desires).

We are ALL spiritual-Beings (Souls) that are temporarily incarnated inside of humans. It is God Who places each Soul inside of a human (Gen. 2:7), which He does based upon His Perfect Understanding of what lessons that specific soul needs to learn to progress spiritually.

It says in the very first book of the Bible that God sent Eve to Adam to be a help mate, NOT to be his co-captain or equal , i.e. constantly trying to fight Adam for control of the helm, which obviously isn't helpful at all. It is further explains in Genesis, which is part of God's Law/COMMANDments that it was the woman who was easily deceived by Satan, and then was used by Satan to tempt and manipulate Adam into sin. That's why God made it crystal clear that the man should RULE over the woman to prevent that from ever happening again.

But instead of listening to and obeying God, we (spiritual-Beings in both male and female bodies) have spent the last 6000 years listening to and obeying Satan, repeating the "original sin" in the Garden of Eden. And this has digressed to the point now of a near total reversal of the natural order of things, with "women's liberation" (the enslavement of women really) satanically teaching people that women are not only supposedly equal to men, but better than men (whose masculinity is now constantly under attack and deemed to be "toxic").

ALL men (spiritual-Beings inside of male bodies) should be following Christ's Example, to become more Christ-like, which is the only way to draw closer to Christ and Christ's Father/Creator (God).

ALL women (spiritual-Beings inside of female bodies) should be learning from Christ-like men, while supporting their upward, spiritual climb. That is the ONLY Way the two can become as one, and make that climb TOGETHER.

It is to everyone's detriment to continue helping Satan to reverse the natural order of things which God set up for our benefit.

THINK about it.
 

A Freeman

Superstar
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,725
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the Old Covenant (Testament); which [veil] (the veil not The Covenant - Rev. 15:3) is done away in Christ.
3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses (the Torah) is read, the veil is upon their heart.
3:16 Nevertheless when it (the Torah) shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.
3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the Perfect Law of Liberty (the true mirror - the Torah), and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a DOER of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

2 Corinthians 3:14-17 is very plainly stating the obvious: those who truly turn to the Lord (Christ) will have the veil removed from their hearts and minds, so that they can see (with spiritual eyes) that there is no separation between the Old and New Covenant, which teach exactly the same thing: obey God's Law/Commandments.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the "Song of Moses" (Old Covenant - Deut. 31) the servant of God, AND the "Song of the Lamb" (New Covenant), saying, Great and marvellous [are] Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] Thy Ways, Thou King of the holy people.

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.

Hebrews 10:16-17
10:16 This [is] The Covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My Laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their [former] sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

The New Song is the "Song of Moses" and the "Song of the Lamb", which can be seen to be in perfect harmony once the veil has been taken away, regardless of human gender.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,424
View attachment 82635

Where is the male/female concepts you suggest in that passage?
As it says. Femaleness refers to our veiled state. It's the body without the head. The wife without the husband. The church without Christ. The soul without the spirit. Eve without Adam. Earth without heaven.

It doesn't imply sexual hierarchy. It symbolizes our separation from the divine.
 

A Freeman

Superstar
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,725
As it says. Femaleness refers to our veiled state. It's the body without the head. The wife without the husband. The church without Christ. The soul without the spirit. Eve without Adam. Earth without heaven.

It doesn't imply sexual hierarchy. It symbolizes our separation from the divine.
"It" (the Scriptures) literally doesn't say what you falsely claim it does, nor does it imply what you're falsely claiming it does. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, as usual.

It is entirely possible, if not likely, that half of the 144,000 (Rev. 7:4-9, Rev. 14:1-4) could be souls/spirit-Beings in female bodies. That's why there are so many references in Scripture to sons AND daughters being gathered.

Matthew 24:37-39
24:37 But as the days of Noah [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
24:38 For as in the days that were before The Flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
24:39 And knew not until The Flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

Genesis 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the Holy City, "New Jerusalem", coming DOWN from God OUT OF HEAVEN, prepared as a Bride adorned for her husband.
 
Top