Is the length of time the Church has held a particular interpretive framework the key factor in deciding if it is the right one.
Do I believe that it is THE key factor in deciding it is the right one? No, of course THE key factor is how closely does it align with how Jesus, and the Apostles themselves interpreted the Old Testament Prophecies. After studying the flip side of Dispensationalism (which I must mention yet again, I held to for most all of my Christian walk) I am beginning to see that the method in which that framework interprets the Bible is very far removed from how Jesus and the Apostles interpreted the Bible.
However I do indeed, after more careful study, believe that it is very essential to look at the length in which an ideology has been held thru out Church History as to its overall veracity.
Can I ask you to answer this specific question for me brother,
can you name 1 Doctrine you hold to apart from Dispensationalism (and its outlying and attached ideologies) that has only come into creation in the Christian Church in the past 150 yrs?
I believe that if you do a true deep search, that you will answer not one, and why do you think that is?
I believe we need to be much more studious as to where we discern our Doctrines from, I can tell you that I accepted Dispensationailsm for years but didnt realize it didnt exist until John Nelson Darby invented it in the mid 1800's. I bet 90% of Christians who hold this ideology dont recognize that it was invented at that time and when they do they dismiss the importance of that fact. It causes Cognitive Dissonance. I am quite sure if we found out other deeply held and central beliefs of our faith was created 100 yrs ago, or 20 yrs ago we would look upon that believe with skepticism, but it would also cause Cognitive Dissonance (CD) depending on how central or deeply held that idea was. Of course if it was something deeply held and caused that, then we would immediately find ways to rectify or dismiss this information, and that is exactly what happens when a Dispensationalist is met with the facts concerning Dispensationalism.
How do I know this? Because it happened to me. I tried to cover up that glaring problem of one man 150 yrs ago inventing my deeply held view on Eschatology by creating in my own mind the exact argument you have offered me, its not that big of a deal. Then I tried to go back in History in hopes of alleviating that CD by finding Early Church Fathers that AT LEAST believed in Pre Millennialism. I found one or two but they definitely didnt hold to Pre Mil in any sense that resembles the teachings of Dispensationalism. After succumbing to that fact I began to look to see if ANYTHING resembling Dispensationalism was taught at ANY TIME prior to JND, and the facts are, no one ever taught it.
So I had to deal with these clear facts, and I then had to deal with other things going on in my life that were causing me to rethink the positions I held concerning these beliefs and so instead of dismissing these facts, I began to see if these ideologies were actually Biblical. I began to study how Jesus and the Apostles interpreted Prophecies, I began to look at other Eschatologies to see if they met the 3 criteria I was wanting to see in a Doctrine I should hold to and profess. 1 Does it line up with Scripture. 2 Is it articulated in the same methodology as Jesus and the Apostles interpretations of Scripture and 3 Does it have a long held History in the Church including from the Early Church.
In my studies Dispensationalism doesnt line up to any of those 3 and so I have come to pretty much reject it as the correct Eschatology. It definitely wasnt something I came to over night, this has been something I have been going back and forth about for about 2 1/2 yrs, but again it is hard to give up an ideology that you were indoctrinated with since becoming a Christian. Its hard to reject the majority of Modern Churches teachings, but I am willing to forego acceptance into these mainstream Churches because the evidence against Dispensationalism is too massive to ignore any longer for myself.
The second question I have would be to wonder if there might be value and purpose in both frameworks for the Church at points in its history.
Could there be? Thats a tough question, in my view point I see Dispensationalism and especially Pre Trib Pre Mil Rapture Doctrine ( which is the most prevalent and might I add the one I held too growing up before studying intently the origins or veracity of any Eschatology) as being quite detrimental to the Faith if it is wrong. I also dont think that Eschatology is something that changes over time and by that I mean, there is really only one correct interpretation of these text in light of how they ultimately will be fulfilled, just as there was only one correct interpretation of the Prophecies of Christ.
An example lifted from an earlier post I mentioned to Toki, in Daniel 9 either the last week of that Prophecy has been pushed out over 2000 yrs (something needed or else all of Dispensationalism, Pre Trib, Pre Mil Doctrine collapses) or it has already been fulfilled in Christs 1st Advent. If it has been fulfilled then there is no such thing as the 7 yr Tribulation Period, the Peace Treaty, the Antichrist breaking the Peace Treaty, Jesus coming secretly and Rapturing the Church ect ect ect. Only one is correct and I dont see how having such contradictory interpretations can benefit the Church in different points in history.
That's why I just want to say that beyond our differences in these frameworks, I value you as a brother in the Lord and look forward to a good dialogue with you over the issue.
I value you as the same brother and definitely dont look at our differences in these ideologies as something that should cause us division, we both believe in all the things that really matter, you know the Doctrines that were established 1000s of years ago and professed throughout History by the Church since its foundation
And I hope we can actually have the discussion, I have been trying to for months now with you but most of the time I have been met with a video, a copy paste and a polite decline lol
Any discussion would only benefit us more by learning from each others perspective, even if we never come to the others side we will have to more deeply learn our own ideologies to maintain a respectable and engaging dialogue supporting our positions. I will leave it up to you tho brother, ask away, offer objections, defend your positions.
One last thing just putting it out there, I do find it rather suspicious that Dispensationalism was created and pushed into the World at the same time as all of these other False Teachings/Teachers were springing up. Does it have any bearing on Dispensationalisms truthfulness? Idk but Satan was definitely afoot in creating a whole slew of False Religions, Teachings and Teachers at this exact time in America...
John Nelson Darby 1800-1882, invented Dispensationalism around 1830
William Miller 1782-1849 created a Religion/Cult called the Millerities most famous for his incorrect prediction of the Return of Jesus on Oct 22 1844, called the Great Disappointment. His sect split up and from them came...
Charles T Russel 1862-1916 founder of the Jehovah Witnesses drew much of his Escatology from the Millerities and its False Teachings on Jesus Return.
Ellen G White 1827-1915 founder and False Prophetess of Seven Day Adventism, denied the Trinity and like CTR sprang from the Millerities and based her False Teachings and Escatology on the Great Disappointment.
Joseph Smith 1805-1844 not related to the Millerites, JS is the founder of Mormonism and of course we all know their False Teachings and him being a False Teacher/Prophet as well.
This is the time in which Dispensationalism sprang forth, during a massive movement of AntiChrist False Teachers, False Prophets and Cults popping up all around, all of which are still here today leading millions to Hell. Not only was all of this going on but we also have some other big time AntiChrist people popping up that influenced the world greatly and we are still feeling the affects of them today. Mainly:
Helena Blavatsky 1831-1891 essentially the founder of the Modern New Age Movement wrote all sorts of books on Occultism and influenced one of if not the most influential people of the 1900s in terms of Occultism reaching the mainstream, which would be Alice Bailey.
Albert Pike 1809-1891 the author of Morals and Dogma essentially the Bible for Freemasonry. And when we take alone those 3 and their teachings, they all say they plan on using the Church to push their ideologies and in my opinion were very successful.
When I look at all of this, I see that Dispensationalism came out of very bad soil, but hey if none of that matters to you then so be, it definitely made me raise a brow tho...
Hope to continue the discussion brother...
