**astral Projection**

[Aero]

I didn't actually intend to train to become lucid during sleep, but since this has happened I do try because I enjoyed it very much.

The idea doesn't frighten me because I believe that everything I will see (even if it's scary) is just a part of my imagination. Which so far turns out to be a happy place.

Yes that sounds just like lucid dreaming. Fear should be my number 1 tip off that I am dreaming. But that's just how good our brains are at tricking us. We can try to manipulate our dreams through behavior and imagery, but taking control is a whole other level.

And my imagination is the stuff nightmares are made of. I've had dreams that were like fighting in mortal combat, while driving in reverse at 60 miles per hour.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have spent some time thinking about this thread but didn't want to say more till I had information from someone with personal experience.

Some people may find this recorded live chat with Steven Bancarz interesting as he goes in to far greater experience of his lucid dreaming and astral experiences as he is in discussion during this recent interview.

 

[rainerann]

I didn't actually intend to train to become lucid during sleep, but since this has happened I do try because I enjoyed it very much.

The idea doesn't frighten me because I believe that everything I will see (even if it's scary) is just a part of my imagination. Which so far turns out to be a happy place.

I had this series of dreams that were very lucid years ago. The first one started with me being on the seashore and everything is normal. Just a normal happy beach scene. Then suddenly I am taken very out into the middle of the ocean. So far out, I can't see the shore anymore. Then, I am taken back to the shore, and everything is changed. The world is changed in what was the blink of the eye. The people are all dressed in black and they are hateful and the street is all trashed. I woke up pretty easily from this one.

Then, I had a dream where I walking down a street where I used to live, but there was chaos and people running around scared. I walked past a shop that had a TV in the window and the new reporter was telling people that it was the end of the world and that no one was going to survive.

There were men running around in black killing people and yelling orders, but they stopped because there was a wedding taking place. There was a very tall lady wearing a gray covering with mesh so you couldn't see her face. I thought they were going to kill me for standing there, and I was going to die in my dream because I knew somehow that it was a dream, but they didn't seem to see me. It was like I was invisible to them and there was this strange sound. Kind of like an ohmm...sound that just went on and on as a continuous word without needing to take a breath like it was being created electronically. I just remember thinking it was really weird that I didn't die.
Then, I had a dream where I was walking around a house in a super clean rich neighborhood. I went into this family's house. They had just had a baby, but there was blood all over the house. The neighborhood was all quiet because everyone who lived there was dead. It was the same theme where everything changed overnight. Things were fine and then they weren't.

After these dreams that just really made me feel irritated and uncomfortable. I was still like 19 or so. Around there, and just really irritated by the fact that they wouldn't stop, so I started trying to control them.

It led to this one dream I had where I was in a crack house environment. This guy there said he was my boyfriend and I couldn't leave. The whole thing felt wrong, so I tried to sneak away but forgot to take my purse. So I went back for my purse and when I was leaving me and this guy had a conversation with our thoughts. He said telepathically that I wasn't going to get away so easily and I somehow knew he was building energy to come into my car without opening the door. So I countered this by saying the name of Jesus. I had just been saved recently so I was trying it out. He disappeared on a lawn in my dream and reappeared back on the lawn looking confused so I told myself to try to drive the car away and then I woke up.

This sort of thing has happened so many times since then that I will usually try to do the same just so I can try to get as much sleep as I can before I wake up. I don't entirely understand what it all means. I have some ideas. Although, I don't always think these things are solely based on my own imagination. Partly, but not entirely.

 

[rainerann]

Also, somehow I forgot to mention in this discussion that there were actually government programs called Project Stargate and Project Pegasus that are relevant to this discussion. Project Stargate was the study of remote viewing, which is another word for a psychic soldier that uses astral projection to gain information. Project Pegasus was the study of time travel.

 

[Aero]

Project Stargate? That's some serious cult stuff. You can tune into thoughts and emotions in the astral plane. But to really get a good "view" is another issue. From what I've experienced it's more like putting a puzzle together in your head. So it's a lot of work for one picture that may not be relevant for long.

That's why I think they just turned it into a weapon. Why take a picture of a remote place? When you can create the picture of that place burning to the ground.

 

[rainerann]

 

[rainerann]

So I am reading a book by Manly Hall called The Qabbalah The Secret Doctrine of Israel and I came across something interesting I wanted to share about the Rosicrucians.

"This theory asserts that the Rosicrucians actually possessed all the supernatural powers with which they were credited; that they were in reality citizens of two worlds: that, while they had physical bodies for expression on the material plane, they were also capable, through the instructions they received from the Brotherhood, of functioning in a mysterious ethereal body not subject to the limitations of time or distance. By means of this 'astral form' they were able to function in the invisible realm of nature, and in this realm, beyond reach of the profane, their temple was located.

According to this viewpoint, the true Rosicrucian Brotherhood consisted of a limited number of highly developed adepts, or initiates, those of the higher degrees being no longer subject to the laws of mortality; candidates were accepted in the Order only after long periods of probation; adepts possessed the secret of the Philosopher's Stone...

These adepts were believed to have been able to teach man how to function away from his physical body at will by assisting him to remove the 'rose from the cross.' They taught that the spiritual nature was attached to the material form at certain points, symbolized by the 'nails' of the crucifixion; but by three alchemical initiations which took place in the spiritual world, in the true Temple of the Rose Cross, they were able to 'draw' these nails and permit the divine nature of man to come down from its cross. They concealed the processes by which this was accomplished under three alchemical metaphoric expression: 'The Casting of the Molten Sea,' 'The Making of the Rose Diamond,' and 'The Achieving of the Philosopher's Stone.'

While the intellectual founders among contradictory theories, the mystic treats the problem in an entirely different manner. He believes that the true Rosicrucian Fraternity, consisting of a school of supermen (not unlike the fable Mahatmas of India), is an institution existing not in the visible world but in its spiritual counterpart, which he sees fit to call the 'inner planes of Nature'; that the Brothers can be reached only by those who are capable of transcending the limitations of the material world." (emphasis added)

I also just finished reading a book by David Morehouse called Psychic Warrior. Morehouse suffered a gunshot wound and was moved to a unit studying remote viewing because of this. As a remote viewer, he would go into a room and while under supervision, he was trained to see things in the astral world. They would set a certain coordinate path for him to focus on and he would go towards these coordinates. Then, afterward, he would draw what he would see and the person who would supervise him would tell him where the coordinates were supposed to take him to see if they matched and he was actually astrally projecting.

This basically indicates the possibility that the government has been plotting the world along a specified coordinate plane, which is essentially like trying to build a subway system in the astral plane.

Nevertheless, the point I was trying to make emphasizing what Hall said along with the testimony of Morehouse is that astral projection is not something many people are able to accomplish independently at first. This is a guided process that requires someone externally knowing that this is what you are attempting to help you induce the process. From this initial breaking in point, whether you are able to do this independently is a different story, but I don't think many people are ever able to introduce themselves to this world by themselves.
I also theorize that the effort to do this comes from stories in scripture about Enoch and Elijah.

 

[Aero]

So I am reading a book by Manly Hall called The Qabbalah The Secret Doctrine of Israel and I came across something interesting I wanted to share about the Rosicrucians.

"This theory asserts that the Rosicrucians actually possessed all the supernatural powers with which they were credited; that they were in reality citizens of two worlds: that, while they had physical bodies for expression on the material plane, they were also capable, through the instructions they received from the Brotherhood, of functioning in a mysterious ethereal body not subject to the limitations of time or distance. By means of this 'astral form' they were able to function in the invisible realm of nature, and in this realm, beyond reach of the profane, their temple was located.

According to this viewpoint, the true Rosicrucian Brotherhood consisted of a limited number of highly developed adepts, or initiates, those of the higher degrees being no longer subject to the laws of mortality; candidates were accepted in the Order only after long periods of probation; adepts possessed the secret of the Philosopher's Stone...

These adepts were believed to have been able to teach man how to function away from his physical body at will by assisting him to remove the 'rose from the cross.' They taught that the spiritual nature was attached to the material form at certain points, symbolized by the 'nails' of the crucifixion; but by three alchemical initiations which took place in the spiritual world, in the true Temple of the Rose Cross, they were able to 'draw' these nails and permit the divine nature of man to come down from its cross. They concealed the processes by which this was accomplished under three alchemical metaphoric expression: 'The Casting of the Molten Sea,' 'The Making of the Rose Diamond,' and 'The Achieving of the Philosopher's Stone.'

While the intellectual founders among contradictory theories, the mystic treats the problem in an entirely different manner. He believes that the true Rosicrucian Fraternity, consisting of a school of supermen (not unlike the fable Mahatmas of India), is an institution existing not in the visible world but in its spiritual counterpart, which he sees fit to call the 'inner planes of Nature'; that the Brothers can be reached only by those who are capable of transcending the limitations of the material world." (emphasis added)

I also just finished reading a book by David Morehouse called Psychic Warrior. Morehouse suffered a gunshot wound and was moved to a unit studying remote viewing because of this. As a remote viewer, he would go into a room and while under supervision, he was trained to see things in the astral world. They would set a certain coordinate path for him to focus on and he would go towards these coordinates. Then, afterward, he would draw what he would see and the person who would supervise him would tell him where the coordinates were supposed to take him to see if they matched and he was actually astrally projecting.

This basically indicates the possibility that the government has been plotting the world along a specified coordinate plane, which is essentially like trying to build a subway system in the astral plane.

Nevertheless, the point I was trying to make emphasizing what Hall said along with the testimony of Morehouse is that astral projection is not something many people are able to accomplish independently at first. This is a guided process that requires someone externally knowing that this is what you are attempting to help you induce the process. From this initial breaking in point, whether you are able to do this independently is a different story, but I don't think many people are ever able to introduce themselves to this world by themselves.
I also theorize that the effort to do this comes from stories in scripture about Enoch and Elijah.

I've read a little bit about Rosicrucians. They don't seem like a bunch of evil cultists. So maybe they were on to something. And as far as I can tell you are right. This type of knowledge or power has to be passed down. It's like any type of skill that takes a teacher, and practice to master.

And Idk if they are plotting the whole worlds course this way yet, but this is how they plot the course of people's lives. I've talked a little bit about how my path to where I am at actually started when I was a kid. Maybe even as a baby. Because I was targeted or chosen by the cult. And they weren't messing around. Some of these cult masters really are that good.

 

[rainerann]

I've read a little bit about Rosicrucians. They don't seem like a bunch of evil cultists. So maybe they were on to something. And as far as I can tell you are right. This type of knowledge or power has to be passed down. It's like any type of skill that takes a teacher, and practice to master.

And Idk if they are plotting the whole worlds course this way yet, but this is how they plot the course of people's lives. I've talked a little bit about how my path to where I am at actually started when I was a kid. Maybe even as a baby. Because I was targeted or chosen by the cult. And they weren't messing around. Some of these cult masters really are that good.

I would be inclined to agree that they weren't "evil cultists" considering the definition we usually associate with the term. However, you will still find the common threat of releasing information, or not adhering to a set of instructions for handling this information, that becomes very similar to issuing the message from Deuteronomy 11:26 regarding a blessing or a curse initiated upon hearing the Torah.

Hall quotes from Rosicrucian doctrines. "Our Fraternity is open to all who sincerely seek for truth; but we publicly warn the false and impious that they cannot betray or injure us, for God has protected our Fraternity, and all who seek to do it harm shall have their evil designs return and destroy them."

So it would seem to be a blessing and a curse to know what there is to know within this fraternity.

He also talks about distinguishing a hierarchy according to this information. This would be a similar concept to distinguishing who could enter into the inner sanctuary of the temple.

So the whole thing appears to be a false reinterpretation of what is talked about within the pages of the Old Testament, rather than a true pursuit of a higher truth; or, the possibility exists that these descriptions in scripture create the justification for creating a process of recruitment according to these principles, except they become false when they are converted in order to control information.

It is essentially a very Pharisaical institution. The Pharisees would not be called "evil cultists" either. Yet, they were guilty of creating burdens for the people to carry, they were unwilling to help with (Matthew 23:4).

"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." (Luke 11:52).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the some of the highest in these orders were descendants of Pharisees.

Anyways, here is another example of this oppression from Hall's quotes from Rosicrucian doctrines, "We have a magic writing, copied from that divine alphabet with which God writes His will upon the face of celestial and terrestrial Nature."

The Zohar also goes into a deep discussion about the power of the letters and the role of their sounds within the discussion of creation.

So, at first, this may seem silly to people who think this subject is somewhat silly as well. However, there is evidence in this possibility within the study of linguistics. I bet most of us don't stop and realize that every language will have some letter that creates a sound that we identify as "a" within the English language. The letter associated with this sound is identified with a different symbol, but the sound is the same no matter what language you speak demonstrating the potential for a universal language, and the reality that all language has one point of origin. The subject of creation is really a somewhat mystical discussion as well.

So, in theory, the possibility exists for me to figure out this "magic" language without joining the Rosicrucian order through independent linguistic study. Now, say I don't want to use to use it for any purpose that furthers this fraternity, does that warrant the information becoming a curse to me according to the threat they include for handling this information? What sort of risk do I potentially incur for endeavoring an independent study of the subject by independently considering this information free for the taking. They have basically declared with their doctrine that the information is not free and it belongs to them by some unidentified special privilege and it really doesn't in reality.

According to all of these clubs, it is not free for the taking. It becomes part of a conditional relationship with people who will be loyal to you for as long as you follow their rules. So there is no real freedom that exists. Therefore, this creates a solid conclusion that this is still a cult. Although, maybe it is subjective where they identify on the scale of evil.

The absence of unconditional relationship is an absence of understanding any sort of true mystical understanding of creation.

 

[Aero]

I would be inclined to agree that they weren't "evil cultists" considering the definition we usually associate with the term. However, you will still find the common threat of releasing information, or not adhering to a set of instructions for handling this information, that becomes very similar to issuing the message from Deuteronomy 11:26 regarding a blessing or a curse initiated upon hearing the Torah.

Hall quotes from Rosicrucian doctrines. "Our Fraternity is open to all who sincerely seek for truth; but we publicly warn the false and impious that they cannot betray or injure us, for God has protected our Fraternity, and all who seek to do it harm shall have their evil designs return and destroy them."

So it would seem to be a blessing and a curse to know what there is to know within this fraternity.

He also talks about distinguishing a hierarchy according to this information. This would be a similar concept to distinguishing who could enter into the inner sanctuary of the temple.

So the whole thing appears to be a false reinterpretation of what is talked about within the pages of the Old Testament, rather than a true pursuit of a higher truth; or, the possibility exists that these descriptions in scripture create the justification for creating a process of recruitment according to these principles, except they become false when they are converted in order to control information.

It is essentially a very Pharisaical institution. The Pharisees would not be called "evil cultists" either. Yet, they were guilty of creating burdens for the people to carry, they were unwilling to help with (Matthew 23:4).

"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." (Luke 11:52).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the some of the highest in these orders were descendants of Pharisees.

Anyways, here is another example of this oppression from Hall's quotes from Rosicrucian doctrines, "We have a magic writing, copied from that divine alphabet with which God writes His will upon the face of celestial and terrestrial Nature."

The Zohar also goes into a deep discussion about the power of the letters and the role of their sounds within the discussion of creation.

So, at first, this may seem silly to people who think this subject is somewhat silly as well. However, there is evidence in this possibility within the study of linguistics. I bet most of us don't stop and realize that every language will have some letter that creates a sound that we identify as "a" within the English language. The letter associated with this sound is identified with a different symbol, but the sound is the same no matter what language you speak demonstrating the potential for a universal language, and the reality that all language has one point of origin. The subject of creation is really a somewhat mystical discussion as well.

So, in theory, the possibility exists for me to figure out this "magic" language without joining the Rosicrucian order through independent linguistic study. Now, say I don't want to use to use it for any purpose that furthers this fraternity, does that warrant the information becoming a curse to me according to the threat they include for handling this information? What sort of risk do I potentially incur for endeavoring an independent study of the subject by independently considering this information free for the taking. They have basically declared with their doctrine that the information is not free and it belongs to them by some unidentified special privilege and it really doesn't in reality.

According to all of these clubs, it is not free for the taking. It becomes part of a conditional relationship with people who will be loyal to you for as long as you follow their rules. So there is no real freedom that exists. Therefore, this creates a solid conclusion that this is still a cult. Although, maybe it is subjective where they identify on the scale of evil.

The absence of unconditional relationship is an absence of understanding any sort of true mystical understanding of creation.

I'll write more on this subject when I have more time. But I find your definition of a "cult" worth mentioning briefly. Because what you are describing is essentially no different than joining any group, club, or even corporation. There's always rules to follow, and expectations of every member or employee. We are only free within the parameters set by someone with more power than us.

 

[rainerann]

I'll write more on this subject when I have more time. But I find your definition of a "cult" worth mentioning briefly. Because what you are describing is essentially no different than joining any group, club, or even corporation. There's always rules to follow, and expectations of every member or employee. We are only free within the parameters set by someone with more power than us.

In a sense you are right. If you were to get into Yale, you would be in a somewhat conditional relationship. However, most of the information that would be taught at Yale is accessible to the public. If I wanted to buy a textbook for a class at Yale, I could go to the bookstore and buy one. So the relationship is not conditional based on the information that is being taught at Yale.

I have access to all the information that would be taught at Yale, the only difference is that the teacher would create a unique experience for this information.

That is why I mentioned the illustration about controlling information. Clearly, the information is controlled by these groups and access to this information is dependent upon a conditional relationship in the group. That is why they could be considered a cult. A cult is a group which creates a conditional relationship based on the information that is to be gained from the group to protect this information from being accessible to people outside of this group.

 

[Aero]

In a sense you are right. If you were to get into Yale, you would be in a somewhat conditional relationship. However, most of the information that would be taught at Yale is accessible to the public. If I wanted to buy a textbook for a class at Yale, I could go to the bookstore and buy one. So the relationship is not conditional based on the information that is being taught at Yale.

I have access to all the information that would be taught at Yale, the only difference is that the teacher would create a unique experience for this information.

That is why I mentioned the illustration about controlling information. Clearly, the information is controlled by these groups and access to this information is dependent upon a conditional relationship in the group. That is why they could be considered a cult. A cult is a group which creates a conditional relationship based on the information that is to be gained from the group to protect this information from being accessible to people outside of this group.

Lol Idk. I'll bet that being a student at Yale is more like a cult than being with the Rosicrucians. It's so difficult to get into Yale, and it's not just about what information can be gained. They get access to people, wealthy and with high social status. So it's a cult hub that branches out to tons of other little cults. Like it doesn't matter how smart or hip you are. Yale kids aren't going to hang out with you, unless you go to Yale.

If they are controlling the people, than they also control the information. Intimate details and secrets of the private and public sector. Stuff you can't just read in a book or on the internet. And the Rosicrucians are open to everyone, as long as you play by the rules. And the rules seem to be pretty straightforward. So my theory is that esoteric subjects just don't interest a lot of people. So all of these old religions get pushed into the cult category. When they actually know what they were talking about.

Humanity gets in cults with no power. We see it going on everywhere. Shouldn't it be considered a religion if they have a certain amount of power? Or at least not called a cult.

 

[rainerann]

Lol Idk. I'll bet that being a student at Yale is more like a cult than being with the Rosicrucians. It's so difficult to get into Yale, and it's not just about what information can be gained. They get access to people, wealthy and with high social status. So it's a cult hub that branches out to tons of other little cults. Like it doesn't matter how smart or hip you are. Yale kids aren't going to hang out with you, unless you go to Yale.

If they are controlling the people, than they also control the information. Intimate details and secrets of the private and public sector. Stuff you can't just read in a book or on the internet. And the Rosicrucians are open to everyone, as long as you play by the rules. And the rules seem to be pretty straightforward. So my theory is that esoteric subjects just don't interest a lot of people. So all of these old religions get pushed into the cult category. When they actually know what they were talking about.

Humanity gets in cults with no power. We see it going on everywhere. Shouldn't it be considered a religion if they have a certain amount of power? Or at least not called a cult.

So if they are not a cult, what do you suppose is their motive for withholding this information on astral travel? For example, the history of it. Why isn't the history of this accessible to the public? Like when was the first instance of such an experience and so forth.

Personally, I think a lot of people are interested in esoteric information. More people are now than ever. So what other motivation is there to observe watered down esoteric teachings being distributed if it were not to behave in a manner consistent with a cult?

I've read a little bit about Rosicrucians. They don't seem like a bunch of evil cultists. So maybe they were on to something. And as far as I can tell you are right. This type of knowledge or power has to be passed down. It's like any type of skill that takes a teacher, and practice to master.

And Idk if they are plotting the whole worlds course this way yet, but this is how they plot the course of people's lives. I've talked a little bit about how my path to where I am at actually started when I was a kid. Maybe even as a baby. Because I was targeted or chosen by the cult. And they weren't messing around. Some of these cult masters really are that good.

You had mentioned that you believe the knowledge of astral travel creates a method to script peoples lives in order to control them. Somehow, you distinguished that the Rosicrucians methods do not qualify as a cult; whereas, you describe your experiences are derived from what you would consider a cult.

So how are the Rosicrucians not behaving as a cult if they are doing the same thing and withholding information that creates the opportunity to script and control other peoples lives?

Would it be safe to say that if you have access to the astral plane, then you have some awareness that things like this are happening and that if it were not for cultlike methods, the way to correct this abuse is to disseminate the information?

 

[The Zone]

Well, well, this is interesting...for my long time GF is a Yale graduate, a "Bull dog," tried and true. So, that kind of knocks your analogy sideways a bit. I guess I am in a cult hub now, Aero?

 

[The Zone]

I had this series of dreams that were very lucid years ago. The first one started with me being on the seashore and everything is normal. Just a normal happy beach scene. Then suddenly I am taken very out into the middle of the ocean. So far out, I can't see the shore anymore. Then, I am taken back to the shore, and everything is changed. The world is changed in what was the blink of the eye. The people are all dressed in black and they are hateful and the street is all trashed. I woke up pretty easily from this one.

Then, I had a dream where I walking down a street where I used to live, but there was chaos and people running around scared. I walked past a shop that had a TV in the window and the new reporter was telling people that it was the end of the world and that no one was going to survive.

There were men running around in black killing people and yelling orders, but they stopped because there was a wedding taking place. There was a very tall lady wearing a gray covering with mesh so you couldn't see her face. I thought they were going to kill me for standing there, and I was going to die in my dream because I knew somehow that it was a dream, but they didn't seem to see me. It was like I was invisible to them and there was this strange sound. Kind of like an ohmm...sound that just went on and on as a continuous word without needing to take a breath like it was being created electronically. I just remember thinking it was really weird that I didn't die.
Then, I had a dream where I was walking around a house in a super clean rich neighborhood. I went into this family's house. They had just had a baby, but there was blood all over the house. The neighborhood was all quiet because everyone who lived there was dead. It was the same theme where everything changed overnight. Things were fine and then they weren't.

After these dreams that just really made me feel irritated and uncomfortable. I was still like 19 or so. Around there, and just really irritated by the fact that they wouldn't stop, so I started trying to control them.

It led to this one dream I had where I was in a crack house environment. This guy there said he was my boyfriend and I couldn't leave. The whole thing felt wrong, so I tried to sneak away but forgot to take my purse. So I went back for my purse and when I was leaving me and this guy had a conversation with our thoughts. He said telepathically that I wasn't going to get away so easily and I somehow knew he was building energy to come into my car without opening the door. So I countered this by saying the name of Jesus. I had just been saved recently so I was trying it out. He disappeared on a lawn in my dream and reappeared back on the lawn looking confused so I told myself to try to drive the car away and then I woke up.

This sort of thing has happened so many times since then that I will usually try to do the same just so I can try to get as much sleep as I can before I wake up. I don't entirely understand what it all means. I have some ideas. Although, I don't always think these things are solely based on my own imagination. Partly, but not entirely.

Dreams are so tricky in deciphering, but once you have a grip on recognizing their messages for the future, you can be aided by them. We must also realize that we can have certain dreams from things we choose or create a better possibility of one. Diet plays a key role and there are foods that can trigger things. Medication and especially illicit drugs can set the off as well. People on chemicals like pills or coke will have what is called poison dreams which are quite vivid and usually not positive or negative, sometimes even adventurous. We remember dreams only if we wake during a timeline that helps us remember them. On rare occasions, we can go back to sleep quickly and continue them. We can go through life and something which happens can remind of us a dream by happenstance which seems odd in nature. There is some evidence that people can dream while awake with sleep deprivation. Dreams are one of the most misunderstood things through time. We can run into toxic demon like dreams but evil seems to not be able to hurt you in them. A good while back, I studied dreams quite a bit but rarely have found sound answers through that research other than what I have mentioned.

 

[Aero]

Well, well, this is interesting...for my long time GF is a Yale graduate, a "Bull dog," tried and true. So, that kind of knocks your analogy sideways a bit. I guess I am in a cult hub now, Aero?

Maybe if you have dated a bunch of Yale girls. But one doesn't really knock the analogy sideways. And it's not really the point. The point is the exclusiveness that they are controlling. As an institution, and the little cults being other institutions.

 

[Aero]

So if they are not a cult, what do you suppose is their motive for withholding this information on astral travel? For example, the history of it. Why isn't the history of this accessible to the public? Like when was the first instance of such an experience and so forth.

Personally, I think a lot of people are interested in esoteric information. More people are now than ever. So what other motivation is there to observe watered down esoteric teachings being distributed if it were not to behave in a manner consistent with a cult?



You had mentioned that you believe the knowledge of astral travel creates a method to script peoples lives in order to control them. Somehow, you distinguished that the Rosicrucians methods do not qualify as a cult; whereas, you describe your experiences are derived from what you would consider a cult.

So how are the Rosicrucians not behaving as a cult if they are doing the same thing and withholding information that creates the opportunity to script and control other peoples lives?

Would it be safe to say that if you have access to the astral plane, then you have some awareness that things like this are happening and that if it were not for cultlike methods, the way to correct this abuse is to disseminate the information?

Idk that they are withholding that information. I think it's all been debunked by counter agents. Are we going to pretend the dominant religions were playing nice all these years? The Archons of Gnosticism come to mind here. There are material forces here that don't want people to ascend. Maybe they are demons, maybe it's the devil. I don't know for sure, but it's the bigger pattern here. Cults aren't controlling the astral plane. They are controlling this world. The physical realm. And they are everywhere.

If you remember what I said before about the Astral plane being the perfect place. It explains my answer to your last question. How can it be considered abuse? To astral project means you have very little to worry about on this world. And I just told you all the truth. So who's withholding information?

 

[rainerann]

Idk that they are withholding that information. I think it's all been debunked by counter agents. Are we going to pretend the dominant religions were playing nice all these years? The Archons of Gnosticism come to mind here. There are material forces here that don't want people to ascend. Maybe they are demons, maybe it's the devil. I don't know for sure, but it's the bigger pattern here. Cults aren't controlling the astral plane. They are controlling this world. The physical realm. And they are everywhere.

If you remember what I said before about the Astral plane being the perfect place. It explains my answer to your last question. How can it be considered abuse? To astral project means you have very little to worry about on this world. And I just told you all the truth. So who's withholding information?

Considering that most of these teachings are actually derived from the Kaballah, which is Jewish mysticism. I think it is safe to say that these were not kept secret because of public response. Some things that have been rejected by the public would have to be discussed separately to determine whether they were true or false concepts. If they were false concepts, then public rejection is warranted.

This is what Zohar.com has to say about why the Zohar was kept secret for so long.

"The teachings of the Zohar were once considered secrets to which only a few were granted access.
While, spiritual and intellectual giants throughout history have turned to the Zohar to unravel the secrets of the Bible and the mysteries of the universe, by the dawn of the 20th century the Zohar had virtually disappeared from the world. Few people in the general population had ever heard of it. Whoever sought to read it—in any country, in any language, at any price—faced a long and futile search.

But now, through the work of The Kabbalah Centre and the launch of this website, what was once meant for those few deemed “worthy” of receiving it is now being made available to all who need it. Today, millions of copies of the Zohar are in circulation worldwide."

Most of what I have learned so far about Rosicrucian's can be derived from Kabbalist teaching suggesting some connection to someone who knew these things when they were being withheld from the public. It would seem that someone used these teachings to create a method of recruitment.

The truth is the Zohar is now available to the public, but that doesn't mean all Kabbalist teachings are available because many things were taught orally and are not written down. So there are still secrets withheld.

Additionally, if you feel that telling about your life being scripted in the astral plane demonstrates a freedom to disseminate information, how do you then define a cult? Also, why do you often relate that you belong to a cult if you believe you have this freedom?

I would also like to mention that I appreciate the opportunity for a discussion like this and the consideration you demonstrate in your responses.

 

[Aero]

Considering that most of these teachings are actually derived from the Kaballah, which is Jewish mysticism. I think it is safe to say that these were not kept secret because of public response. Some things that have been rejected by the public would have to be discussed separately to determine whether they were true or false concepts. If they were false concepts, then public rejection is warranted.

This is what Zohar.com has to say about why the Zohar was kept secret for so long.

"The teachings of the Zohar were once considered secrets to which only a few were granted access.
While, spiritual and intellectual giants throughout history have turned to the Zohar to unravel the secrets of the Bible and the mysteries of the universe, by the dawn of the 20th century the Zohar had virtually disappeared from the world. Few people in the general population had ever heard of it. Whoever sought to read it—in any country, in any language, at any price—faced a long and futile search.

But now, through the work of The Kabbalah Centre and the launch of this website, what was once meant for those few deemed “worthy” of receiving it is now being made available to all who need it. Today, millions of copies of the Zohar are in circulation worldwide."

Most of what I have learned so far about Rosicrucian's can be derived from Kabbalist teaching suggesting some connection to someone who knew these things when they were being withheld from the public. It would seem that someone used these teachings to create a method of recruitment.

The truth is the Zohar is now available to the public, but that doesn't mean all Kabbalist teachings are available because many things were taught orally and are not written down. So there are still secrets withheld.

Additionally, if you feel that telling about your life being scripted in the astral plane demonstrates a freedom to disseminate information, how do you then define a cult? Also, why do you often relate that you belong to a cult if you believe you have this freedom?

I would also like to mention that I appreciate the opportunity for a discussion like this and the consideration you demonstrate in your responses.

My definition of a cult is something people place too much importance on. It's something that has power over them, but grants them very little power back. Like an Xbox for example. If gaming all the time sets you on the path to glory, Ok. But in most cases it actually doesn't. They are just in the video game cult. Feeding those institutions I brought up before.

Whether the information is public or not has nothing to do with the psychological profile of cult behavior. They will sell people snake oil that labeled snake oil. And I don't know why people give up power to these material objects, and false doctrines. I think that addiction plays a big role in what the average cultist goes through. But again it's a question of what they actually get out of it vs what it takes from them.

And I don't believe I'm in a cult. But for purposes of arguments there's no other way people will begin to relate. Guild Leader doesn't have the same ring as "Cult Leader". Or the cloak and dagger magnum packer.

 

[rainerann]

My definition of a cult is something people place too much importance on. It's something that has power over them, but grants them very little power back. Like an Xbox for example. If gaming all the time sets you on the path to glory, Ok. But in most cases it actually doesn't. They are just in the video game cult. Feeding those institutions I brought up before.

Whether the information is public or not has nothing to do with the psychological profile of cult behavior. They will sell people snake oil that labeled snake oil. And I don't know why people give up power to these material objects, and false doctrines. I think that addiction plays a big role in what the average cultist goes through. But again it's a question of what they actually get out of it vs what it takes from them.

And I don't believe I'm in a cult. But for purposes of arguments there's no other way people will begin to relate. Guild Leader doesn't have the same ring as "Cult Leader". Or the cloak and dagger magnum packer.

right, but this would be evidenced by trying to control information--because you place too much importance on the information. It is as though the information has the power to save you. Like some sort of back door that creates an escape.

Why would you want the dramatic effect of cult leader?

Also, if you say that you gained this ability because of being targeted for MK Ultra and also say that this experience is good, would that be the same thing as saying that MK Ultra is good?

If MK Ultra is not good, but astral projection is good, would you be able to elaborate on the specific process that allowed you to astrally project the first time? Why or why not?