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[TeresaP7]

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[TempestOfTempo]

http://www.breakpoint.org/2018/11/mindy-belz-asylum-for-asia-bibi/

Breakpoint is a daily for me. They are discussing Asia Bibi and the “religion of peace.” I’m really hoping the US will offer her asylum. Many other countries are afraid of the repercussions.

My understanding is that she aint guilty of what she was charged with (blasphemy) but the Pakistani gov. allowed the ferver against her to be whipped into such a frenzy that now they cant protect their own citizen who was innocent of the charges levied against her.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

There are so many things wrong with this situation, not the least of which is the level of infiltration in Europe that they are too afraid of repercussions to even offer asylum. I’m praying for her and her family. She has 5 children.

Yeah its a trip because they will let wave after wave of men into their nations with little to no vetting process in place, yet suddenly they are trying to clamp down when this woman needs help.......

 

[Thunderian]

Her "crime" was that she supposedly drank from a cup that was for Islamic use only.

 

[AspiringSoul]

There are so many things wrong with this situation, not the least of which is the level of infiltration in Europe that they are too afraid of repercussions to even offer asylum. I’m praying for her and her family. She has 5 children.

Are you stupid?
countries have these places called embassies.
it is the embassies in pakistan that they fear could come under attack
not
the level of infiltration in Europe that they are too afraid of repercussions to even offer asylum

The truth of this situation is that, although it is targetting a christian, the mob behind this are using a christian as a yardstick to gain support for their 'anti-blasphemy' agenda that's actually aimed at other sects. She's been caught in the firing line.

The reality is there are a lot of these complete arseholes running sectarian movements, manipulating the herd with religious/sectarian rhetoric.
they have nothing better to do and spend their entire lives serving their ego. no doubr, they're all going to hell.

I sympathise with the woman...but there's little the government can do, simply because these movements actually only get stronger if the government appears weak.
if the government simply had cunts like khadim hussain rizvi killed (and that would be the right action because he is a cunt of the highest order), it would only make the movement stronger.

 

[AspiringSoul]

So your answer is to say I am stupid because I am concerned for this woman? That resulted in me stopping there and ignoring the rest of your words. I’ve seen some of your posts and the way you deal with people. I’ll just consider the source...

When you post statements like that one about infiltration in Europe, that shit might fly in your little Christian evening club but not on here. Don't expect me to be nice when you start shit like that

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Are you stupid?
countries have these places called embassies.
it is the embassies in pakistan that they fear could come under attack
not
the level of infiltration in Europe that they are too afraid of repercussions to even offer asylum

The truth of this situation is that, although it is targetting a christian, the mob behind this are using a christian as a yardstick to gain support for their 'anti-blasphemy' agenda that's actually aimed at other sects. She's been caught in the firing line.

The reality is there are a lot of these complete arseholes running sectarian movements, manipulating the herd with religious/sectarian rhetoric.
they have nothing better to do and spend their entire lives serving their ego. no doubr, they're all going to hell.

I sympathise with the woman...but there's little the government can do, simply because these movements actually only get stronger if the government appears weak.
if the government simply had cunts like khadim hussain rizvi killed (and that would be the right action because he is a cunt of the highest order), it would only make the movement stronger.

"running sectarian movements, manipulating the herd with religious/sectarian rhetoric.
they have nothing better to do and spend their entire lives serving their ego. no doubr, they're all going to hell."
I was led to believe that a lot of this stems from the Mullahs and their systems of social influence, do you feel that is accurate?

 

[AspiringSoul]

"running sectarian movements, manipulating the herd with religious/sectarian rhetoric.
they have nothing better to do and spend their entire lives serving their ego. no doubr, they're all going to hell."
I was led to believe that a lot of this stems from the Mullahs and their systems of social influence, do you feel that is accurate?

in a country like pakistan, that's all it ever is really. When i was 10 and over there, i realised very quickly that the dervishes who lives in the mosque's were the bad seed. They were the ones who could not be sorted out at home even with violence. So their parents would ship them off to mosques to remain there memorising the Quran..
basically it was "just get him off our hands please, we've tried and failed".
now imagine 10-20 of them all together in one place...and then they all become active in a religious setting.

Most ppl over there are intelligent enough to know these type of characters and religious settings are meant to be avoided. that only leaves a room for the completely dumb to fill and they are too easily swayed.

I don't think they've targetted the christian from the offset, i think they've just taken advantage of the original story to suit their agenda. as i sid they are usually not bothered about christians, but with the other rival sect. they've used the blasphemy case to gain a foothold over stupid people which they'll use later against the other sect too.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

in a country like pakistan, that's all it ever is really. When i was 10 and over there, i realised very quickly that the dervishes who lives in the mosque's were the bad seed. They were the ones who could not be sorted out at home even with violence. So their parents would ship them off to mosques to remain there memorising the Quran..
basically it was "just get him off our hands please, we've tried and failed".
now imagine 10-20 of them all together in one place...and then they all become active in a religious setting.

Most ppl over there are intelligent enough to know these type of characters and religious settings are meant to be avoided. that only leaves a room for the completely dumb to fill and they are too easily swayed.

I don't think they've targetted the christian from the offset, i think they've just taken advantage of the original story to suit their agenda. as i sid they are usually not bothered about christians, but with the other rival sect. they've used the blasphemy case to gain a foothold over stupid people which they'll use later against the other sect too.

Thats a very informative post, I appreciate it. Who pays for the madrasa you mentioned usually? Foreigners seeking influence, perhaps rich people inside Pakistan, perhaps they are funded by mainly local support or a combination of these means?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Thats a very informative post, I appreciate it. Who pays for the madrasa you mentioned usually? Foreigners seeking influence, perhaps rich people inside Pakistan, perhaps they are funded by mainly local support or a combination of these means?

these madrassas are not the problem. I don't know about other muslim countries but in the indian subncontinent there's a tradition for larger mosques to host 'dervishes' who would spend time in the mosque quarters (not living inside the prayer area but near) for extended periods of time for worship. They would be fed by the locals if they could afford it. Really anyone can go there and become a dervish and what you choose to do with that time is your own choice. it's just an environment to let go and live a religious life whilst being fed by the generosity of others...since the whole idea is to give up and 'forget the world' whilst you're there.
This is separate from the langar tradition of sufism and sikhism where people gather at holy places to be fed by food donated by people.
What happens is a lot of people who can't control their kids send them to mosques as 'dervishes' to learn islam. But since there's no real curriculum they just tend to go there and get told to memorise the quran in arabic in parrot fashion. They remain there until they reach adulthood or until the family decide to bring them back home.

I won't diss this system entirely since literally 90% of the pakistani imams in the UK who memorised the Quran did it in pakistan inc the ones born here. I would imagine there are too many distractions in this country.

The only problem is as i said, a lot of bad kids end up together and go through it. Once they become imams of mosques they use their position to promote their self interests, whatever they are, whether it's using sectarianism to give themselves a platform or becoming fake 'holy men' for money or just being enablers of even worse people and not doing their job as imams to promote islam the right way. eitherway, every dodgy imam ive known from the pakistanis, was once a dervish.

The key thing here is there is no centralised system creating these type of characters, like the catholic church. it is just bad kids growing up together in a religious setting and getting worse with time.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

these madrassas are not the problem. I don't know about other muslim countries but in the indian subncontinent there's a tradition for larger mosques to host 'dervishes' who would spend time in the mosque quarters (not living inside the prayer area but near) for extended periods of time for worship. They would be fed by the locals if they could afford it. Really anyone can go there and become a dervish and what you choose to do with that time is your own choice. it's just an environment to let go and live a religious life whilst being fed by the generosity of others...since the whole idea is to give up and 'forget the world' whilst you're there.
This is separate from the langar tradition of sufism and sikhism where people gather at holy places to be fed by food donated by people.
What happens is a lot of people who can't control their kids send them to mosques as 'dervishes' to learn islam. But since there's no real curriculum they just tend to go there and get told to memorise the quran in arabic in parrot fashion. They remain there until they reach adulthood or until the family decide to bring them back home.

I won't diss this system entirely since literally 90% of the pakistani imams in the UK who memorised the Quran did it in pakistan inc the ones born here. I would imagine there are too many distractions in this country.

The only problem is as i said, a lot of bad kids end up together and go through it. Once they become imams of mosques they use their position to promote their self interests, whatever they are, whether it's using sectarianism to give themselves a platform or becoming fake 'holy men' for money or just being enablers of even worse people and not doing their job as imams to promote islam the right way. eitherway, every dodgy imam ive known from the pakistanis, was once a dervish.

The key thing here is there is no centralised system creating these type of characters, like the catholic church. it is just bad kids growing up together in a religious setting and getting worse with time.

Lots of info here, and I thank you for this firsthand account of the situation.
But I would like to inquire about this......
"I won't diss this system entirely since literally 90% of the pakistani imams in the UK who memorised the Quran did it in pakistan inc the ones born here"
and how it relates to this.....
"The only problem is as i said, a lot of bad kids end up together and go through it"
Aint some of them one in the same?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Lots of info here, and I thank you for this firsthand account of the situation.
But I would like to inquire about this......
"I won't diss this system entirely since literally 90% of the pakistani imams in the UK who memorised the Quran did it in pakistan inc the ones born here"
and how it relates to this.....
"The only problem is as i said, a lot of bad kids end up together and go through it"
Aint some of them one in the same?

There are 2 different types over here. The ones who were born/raised in pakistan, came to this country either through marraige or as official islamic teachers or imams. Most of them, are not really good people. THe ones who were born and/or raised here who went to pakistan to become dervishes and memorise the Quran.
There's a big difference between the 2 in terms of mentality and intention.

 

[Thunderian]

Asia Bibi family being hunted 'house to house' in Pakistan

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Asia Bibi family being hunted 'house to house' in Pakistan

So go there and defend her with your Christian spirit Dumbdarian...... what are you waiting for, the wold needs a hero!