Are Satan And Lucifer The Same Being?

[KoncreteMind]

Satan simply means "adversary". Anybody, can be an adversary (satan). Lucifer, is something else...

 

[Camidria]

I believe they are the same, and in the occult sense Lucifer has deceived many into believing that he is the one who opens people's eyes into the 'light'. he is the god of this world and I believe he is satan.

 

[Karlysymon]

No they aren't the same
being. That would be like
saying the Ancient
Egyptian god "Set" is also the devil from Christianity. Different religions equals different Gods.

In the 'Are the gods twelve' thread (page 8)

Every nation has his own Gods. You can not be Greek and worship the gods of the Indians or of the Japanese, or of the Germans or the English.

Let's get real here...let's say that there are a million different cultures around the globe in any given epoch. Each has its own god of war, fertility, the elements, et al. How is it possible (in a real sense and mythologically) that there can be a million gods of war/thunder, all of them holding office 24/7/365 since, according to you guys, the gods cannot possibly be the same? Take for example the battle at Thermopaely when the Spartans faced off with the Immortals. Who was 'sitting behind the desk' the entire time? Was it the Persian god or the Spartan god?
If a culture dies out, do their gods expire aswell?

Two, Christian claim Satan
is the ruler of the earth
when in Job....long after
the serpent in genesis, Satan was still answering to God.

Question is, what was he doing there if infact he had already been expelled?

Three, Jesus calls himself
the bright morning star in
revelations...... It's obvious that something is not right with Christianity
interpretations.

Yes, and a distinction is made. Angels are called morning stars (Job 38:7, Isaiah 14:12, Rev 2:28, 22:16, 2 Peter 1:19* ) but Christ is called BRIGHT morning star.

 

[SpectralIX]

I believe they are the same, and in the occult sense Lucifer has deceived many into believing that he is the one who opens people's eyes into the 'light'. he is the god of this world and I believe he is satan.

I would say the reason he could be believed to "open people's eyes into the 'light'" is that he presents darkness and it is only in contrast that we have a choice. In other words, could we actively choose the light if we were not offered the choice of darkness?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I would say the reason he could be believed to "open people's eyes into the 'light'" is that he presents darkness and it is only in contrast that we have a choice. In other words, could we actively choose the light if we were not offered the choice of darkness?

...which goes to the heart of things!

You can know good and evil by knowing good and doing it, or by falling into the trap and doing evil.

Two children can learn the same lesson from their parents in two ways. One by knowing that something is unwise and heeding advice, the other by trying it for themselves and recieving the consequence. Both understand good and evil but only one suffers the results of evil...

In your example, God offered the option of disobedience, but not the temptation. This is key to a world where love and free will would be possible.

 

[Camidria]

I would say the reason he could be believed to "open people's eyes into the 'light'" is that he presents darkness and it is only in contrast that we have a choice. In other words, could we actively choose the light if we were not offered the choice of darkness?

You see that is what Lucifer is all about, creating a very dark evil and in contrast is much lesser evil or 'light', The devil in Black and the devil in Cream, so then people will much rather choose the devil / Lucifer in Cream as it is the lesser of the evils.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You see that is what Lucifer is all about, creating a very dark evil and in contrast is much lesser evil or 'light', The devil in Black and the devil in Cream, so then people will much rather choose the devil / Lucifer in Cream as it is the lesser of the evils.

You can see that in the music industry - black satanic metal was superceded by sugar-sweet illuminati pop idols!

 

[AspiringSoul]

Lucifer/The morning star was not used in the bible in a negative context denoting any kind of evil.
In Revelation 2 the Holy Spirit said
26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations – 27 that one “will rule them with an iron sceptre and will dash them to pieces like pottery”b]">[b] – just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Then in the Quran there is a chapter called Surah at-Taariq (the morning star).
1 By the heaven and the Morning Star
2 Ah, what will tell thee what the Morning Star is!
3 The piercing Star!
4 No human soul but hath a guardian over it.
5 So let man consider from what he is created.
6 He is created from a gushing fluid
7 That issued from between the loins and ribs.
8 Lo! He verily is Able to return him (unto life)
9 On the day when hidden thoughts shall be searched out.
10 Then will he have no might nor any helper.
11 By the heaven which giveth the returning rain,

My understanding is that Lucifer/the morning star is a symbolic term representing the light within us, divine wisdom that permeates the whole of creation. It is what in sufi islam we call "Nur-e-Mohammad" or the "light of Mohammad" because it is the archetype on which man is built, also known as
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon


If you cross-examine the metaphysics of causation in other religions like hinduism for example the teachings of Sri aurobindo there is in depth information on what this is without a direct mention. It is basically Sophia/wisdom. Similarly in Zoroastrian duality ie Ahura Mazda (Wise Lord) and Angra Mainyu (destructive spirit).
Satan correlates to Angra Mainyu but it is not an entity, more but a spiritual state born out of ignorance of the truth.

In duality, evil exists relative to good. In the state of unity even the idea of 'good' no longer exists, it is a complete state.

In islam, IBLEES is an entity, a jinn who ranked higher than angels and then fell into a satanic state due to ignorance.
he became A satan.

The mistake the christian world made was to personify 'satan' as one single entity.
since evil is the shadow of good, the luciferian false philosophy now teaches that 'satan is the shadow of lucifer' and therefore this single entity, iblees..presents himself as both a satanic being (shadow) but also as 'the lightbringer'.
What happened was a bunch of idiots started channelling and opened communication with iblees.
he taught them this philosophy to win their trust..so they believed in him then followed him.
so in their mind they truely believe they are serving the real lucifer but obviously they're not.

 

[The Zone]

When you need to write a long retort and simply don't have the time...you just say Hmmmm.

 

[Aero]

Let's get real here...let's say that there are a million different cultures around the globe in any given epoch. Each has its own god of war, fertility, the elements, et al. How is it possible (in a real sense and mythologically) that there can be a million gods of war/thunder, all of them holding office 24/7/365 since, according to you guys, the gods cannot possibly be the same? Take for example the battle at Thermopaely when the Spartans faced off with the Immortals. Who was 'sitting behind the desk' the entire time? Was it the Persian god or the Spartan god?
If a culture dies out, do their gods expire aswell?

The symbolism is real. And in that sense I always refer to Jung's teachings. He spoke of a collective unconsciousness that exists within us, and is the origin of our God symbols. That we see God every night in our dreams.

https://thesethingsinside.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/carl-jung-says-god-is-reality-itself/

Now to take that further into what we know about quantum mechanics. It makes Jung seem even more genius. Reality is not what we think it is. Like there could be other worlds right in front of us. On top of us, or even inside of us. So what I'm saying is, there is plenty of room for there to be a billion Gods all with their own table.

Ok so maybe they are not the best God. Or the supreme God. Because clearly there has to be one thing underneath it all. I tend to refer to it as an abyss. It spits out a billion worlds a second, and that's probably a serious understatement.

 

[Camidria]

Jehovah's folowers (Christians) enjoys Humor and Frivolity

We actually respect each other's views here on the boards, and I think this qualifies as disrespectful, @VigilantCitizen isn't this against the rules of the board?

 

[rainerann]

The symbolism is real. And in that sense I always refer to Jung's teachings. He spoke of a collective unconsciousness that exists within us, and is the origin of our God symbols. That we see God every night in our dreams.

https://thesethingsinside.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/carl-jung-says-god-is-reality-itself/

Now to take that further into what we know about quantum mechanics. It makes Jung seem even more genius. Reality is not what we think it is. Like there could be other worlds right in front of us. On top of us, or even inside of us. So what I'm saying is, there is plenty of room for there to be a billion Gods all with their own table.

Ok so maybe they are not the best God. Or the supreme God. Because clearly there has to be one thing underneath it all. I tend to refer to it as an abyss. It spits out a billion worlds a second, and that's probably a serious understatement.

I actually agree with you. However, I don't equate the possibility that the universe is also composed of a million tiny parts, the way an atom is also composed of many individual part,s proves that there are many Gods. It just means things exist within the universe in a more pixelated fashion, but all things do in reality. At a microscopic level, a solid is pixelated.

So while the universe seems like a vast empty space, if it were possible to see it through a microscope the way we could a block of wood, would it look more pixelated than it does.

Or, it is like the universe exists with many worlds the way skin is not just one cell, but many.

It really would make sense considering what we know about the microscopic world.

However, that doesn't mean that the supreme God is reduced in authority or function because of this. There may be many entities because of this, but there is only one nucleus if we pattern the universe based on the evidence of the microscopic world.

However, no one presently understands this nucleus we call God in any sort of detailed way to say a whole lot about Him from a scientific perspective. We can just see evidence of Him throughout history and into the modern age of technology and science. It is a constant presence.

So I'm not saying that the Bible is all there is to know about God, but the possibility of multiple worlds doesn't automatically prove the possibility of multiple Gods by default.

I also think we are limited in our ability to see light. So, we see things the way we see things in a dim room, metaphorically.

Technically, it is also possible that a collective consciousness is the same thing as having nothing to hide anymore and not walking in darkness.

So I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

 

[rainerann]

We actually respect each other's views here on the boards, and I think this qualifies as disrespectful, @VigilantCitizen isn't this against the rules of the board?

I just don't even understand what it is supposed to mean. There is just no way to even respond to it from a Biblical perspective because I don't even know what verse this is debating.

 

[Camidria]

I just don't even understand what it is supposed to mean. There is just no way to even respond to it from a Biblical perspective because I don't even know what verse this is debating.

What Eriunios posted actually violates forum rules so I reported it...

 

[Yahda]

Yes, and a distinction is made. Angels are called morning stars (Job 38:7, Isaiah 14:12, Rev 2:28, 22:16, 2 Peter 1:19* ) but Christ is called BRIGHT morning star.

I wouldn't really call that a distinction when you consider the fact that in religion, the being referred to as Satan, the serpent, the devil, lucifer.....is always said to bring LIGHT, hence the term morning star, light bearer, so using the term BRIGHT morning star to distinguish from just plain old morning star does not help the case. The BRIGHT morning star is also sometimes referenced as the SON/SUN.

Also when you ask yourself who fits the description and has the characteristics described in Isaiah 14: wanna be like God, worshiped, above God, on a throne......vs the typical Christian devil who causes all bad, chaos, and corruption on the earth and in your life......you have to ask does the description fit the former or the latter ?
.

With that being said I don't think Isaiah 14 has anything to do with Satan/the devil(s)/lucifer/light bearer ....yet it has everything to do with it. In the sense of the opposer, or one who is against God, the adversary.

Moving on, I think it goes back to the seed of the serpent spoken of in genesis. It was written that this being will have a seed.

Fast forward to the present day, I'm now thinking in terms of what we call the reptilians, the powers that wannabe, the Rockefellers, The Jews who say they are Jews, ECT....who is said to control this country.

Isaiah 14 is a future prophecy. It starts off:

For the Lord will show mercy to Jacob and he will again choose Israel. He will settle them in their land and the foreign residents will join themselves to the house of Jacob. And the people shall take them and bring them to their place.

And the house of Israel shall possess them as male and female servants in the Land of God

And they will be the CAPTORS of the ones who held them CAPTIVE and they shall rule over those who oppressed them"

V3 In that day when the Lord gives you rest from your pain and from your turmoil and from the hard slavery imposed on you, you will recite this proverb against the king of Babylon

" how the one forcing others to work has met his end, how the oppression has ended. The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked

The staff of the rulers.....the one furiously striking people with unceasing blows

.....the whole earth rest now. Free of disturbance. People cry out for joy. Even the trees rejoice. Even the grave is stirred up to meet you.......

How you have fallen from heaven ? O shining one, SON of the dawn ( morning ) * key word * SON OF

V20 goes on to call them "the offspring of evil doers" (sons of) who will never again be named. Prepare a slaughtering block for "his" SONS because of the guilt of their forefathers

I would say Isaiah 14 is in reference to the serpent seed. What that means in regard to Christians and religion idk ?

Which brings me back to the Christian savior who is a obvious manifestation religion wise of the serpent, the falling one. The father of the "son" of the morning. To sum this up I got one word " Eruinious".

Before anyone gets all bent out of shape just hear me out. It's common knowledge that "some" biblical characters are based on past figures...from ceaser, to Serapis, on to Zeus, and Horus....what religion does is give this god life.

 

[Karlysymon]

I wouldn't really call that a distinction when you
consider the fact that in religion, the being referred to as Satan, the serpent,
the devil, lucifer.....is always said to bring LIGHT,

And what kind of light would that be? Is he still a 'light bringer/bearer' in his fallen state?

You asked

The BRIGHT morning star is also sometimes referenced as the SON/SUN. Also when you ask yourself who fits the description and has the characteristics described in Isaiah 14:wanna be like God, worshiped, above God, on a throne......vs the typical Christian devil who causes all bad, chaos, and corruption on the earth and in your life......you have
to ask does the description fit the former or the latter ?.

And answered yourself

recite this proverb against the king of Babylon " how the one forcing others to work has met his end, how the oppression has ended. The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked The staff of the rulers.....the one furiously striking people with unceasing blows .....the whole earth rest now. Free of disturbance. People cry out for joy. Even the trees rejoice. Even the
grave is stirred up to meet
you.......

 

[Miss Terry]

Satan and Lucifer is the same.
Satan as the dark
Lucifer as the light
This brings about the meaning of duality.
It was also said it is hermaphrodite - means it has two gender either feminine / masculine.
Hope you get my point, i can't express it so much here LOL...

 

[Sunshine]

I wouldn't really call that a distinction when you consider the fact that in religion, the being referred to as Satan, the serpent, the devil, lucifer.....is always said to bring LIGHT, hence the term morning star, light bearer, so using the term BRIGHT morning star to distinguish from just plain old morning star does not help the case. The BRIGHT morning star is also sometimes referenced as the SON/SUN.

Also when you ask yourself who fits the description and has the characteristics described in Isaiah 14: wanna be like God, worshiped, above God, on a throne......vs the typical Christian devil who causes all bad, chaos, and corruption on the earth and in your life......you have to ask does the description fit the former or the latter ?
.

With that being said I don't think Isaiah 14 has anything to do with Satan/the devil(s)/lucifer/light bearer ....yet it has everything to do with it. In the sense of the opposer, or one who is against God, the adversary.

Moving on, I think it goes back to the seed of the serpent spoken of in genesis. It was written that this being will have a seed.

Fast forward to the present day, I'm now thinking in terms of what we call the reptilians, the powers that wannabe, the Rockefellers, The Jews who say they are Jews, ECT....who is said to control this country.

Isaiah 14 is a future prophecy. It starts off:

For the Lord will show mercy to Jacob and he will again choose Israel. He will settle them in their land and the foreign residents will join themselves to the house of Jacob. And the people shall take them and bring them to their place.

And the house of Israel shall possess them as male and female servants in the Land of God

And they will be the CAPTORS of the ones who held them CAPTIVE and they shall rule over those who oppressed them"

V3 In that day when the Lord gives you rest from your pain and from your turmoil and from the hard slavery imposed on you, you will recite this proverb against the king of Babylon

" how the one forcing others to work has met his end, how the oppression has ended. The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked

The staff of the rulers.....the one furiously striking people with unceasing blows

.....the whole earth rest now. Free of disturbance. People cry out for joy. Even the trees rejoice. Even the grave is stirred up to meet you.......

How you have fallen from heaven ? O shining one, SON of the dawn ( morning ) * key word * SON OF

V20 goes on to call them "the offspring of evil doers" (sons of) who will never again be named. Prepare a slaughtering block for "his" SONS because of the guilt of their forefathers

I would say Isaiah 14 is in reference to the serpent seed. What that means in regard to Christians and religion idk ?

Which brings me back to the Christian savior who is a obvious manifestation religion wise of the serpent, the falling one. The father of the "son" of the morning. To sum this up I got one word " Eruinious".

Before anyone gets all bent out of shape just hear me out. It's common knowledge that "some" biblical characters are based on past figures...from ceaser, to Serapis, on to Zeus, and Horus....what religion does is give this god life.

How on Earth do you equate Yeshua the Christian saviour as a manifestation of the serpent? Are you so anti-Christian that you would ignore the mountain of evidence to the contrary?

A good portion of the sermons Jesus gave are a warning to his followers against the trickery of Satan and his minions. When He went into the desert, it was that very being who tempted Jesus with the idea of ruling over all the peoples of the Earth, as a king among men for a thousand years. Instead, even knowing the pain and ignominity of what was to come, He chose to sacrifice His mortal life to establish a protocol for the rest of us to escape servitude to Satan, and all those other demons posing as "gods," and demanding blood and gold from tribes all over the world.

Sure, some would argue that Jesus is a recycled version of Tammuz or Horus or some similar mythological character of "rebirth," but those are nonbelievers, and they often have an anti-Christian agenda as well. I think the reanimation (for lack of a better word) of Lazarus is meant to pre-empt and refute such comparisons. Clearly, if the powers of Jesus included bringing other people back to life after physical death, He could do it for Himself, too. (Serapis was a bull worshiped in fertility rites, and Zeus is a manifestation of the 'father-god' archetype, [deus-pater], neither of which has anything to do with the historical or spiritual aspects of Christ.)

Finally, anyone who has met Him in their heart will tell you in no uncertain terms that what you said is just ridiculous. The entity that we, in our paltry, insufficient language, call Jesus/Yeshua, is a powerful force in this and probably every other universe. He was the first creation of the Creator, and Revelations tells us that His seat is at the right hand of God. I interpret that to mean that He acts as a right hand of God, and along with the Holy Spirit, He is an active agent of change/creation/evolution within the multiverse, for lower spiritual beings like us, and countless others.

Having read and reread the words you wrote in the above comment makes me feel kind of sorry for you, that you have never experienced the unconditional love and peace and sense of Oneness with the Universe that knowing Him brings. I hope someday you receive that blessing, and you can stop bowing down to the Big Black Box, and sending your spiritual energy into that vortex to who knows where.

 

[Vixy]

Well, yeah..Satan and Lucifer would be the same guy in my book! Same guy, different names.

 

[Camidria]

How on Earth do you equate Yeshua the Christian saviour as a manifestation of the serpent? Are you so anti-Christian that you would ignore the mountain of evidence to the contrary?

Yahdah unfortunately believes she is the only one saved here and she doesn't believe in Yeshua, let's pray for the Holy Spirit to open her heart....