Apparently, even Arthur needs a homosexual character

[justjess]

I specifically mentioned the verse to show that there are two choices, there aren’t any other choices. What’s so hard about seeing that?

Telling people why they will be thrown in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth is part of the gospel. Telling people that there is a savior is the other part to that..the get out of jail free card if you will. It’s a good deal!

Edit: its a good deal and the only deal, honestly.

Ive posted you articles explaining better than I can why I feel the idea of eternal torment is misunderstood and not accurate. If you don’t care to read them, or you disagree that is your prerogative Lisa. It doesn’t matter to me. I’m sure your soul will be fine regardless.

It does sadden me that so many of you seem to have missed Jesus entire point though, by focusing in on that instead. And it does strike me as suspicious that this is what the church has decided to emphasize as well... it’s a great control tactic, that’s for sure.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/universalism

 

[Lisa]

Ive posted you articles explaining better than I can why I feel the idea of eternal torment is misunderstood and not accurate. If you don’t care to read them, or you disagree that is your prerogative Lisa. It doesn’t matter to me. I’m sure your soul will be fine regardless.

It does sadden me that so many of you seem to have missed Jesus entire point though, by focusing in on that instead. And it does strike me as suspicious that this is what the church has decided to emphasize as well... it’s a great control tactic, that’s for sure.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/universalism

I was emphasizing the point that you and @Todd like to deny, that there is eternal punishment. @Todd likes to say that God is a sadist if there is eternal punishment and says that it’s not true. I was just showing that it is true and Jesus talks about eternal punishment and eternal life. People are either going to one or the other and its forever whatever choice one picks..that’s why its important to know that truth and to make a good decision because after you die..there are no more choices, you make your choice before you die.

It seems to me that both of you have been trying to turn the conversation to something else and avoid that Jesus says that there are only 2 choices, eternal life or eternal punishment.

 

[justjess]

I was emphasizing the point that you and @Todd like to deny, that there is eternal punishment. @Todd likes to say that God is a sadist if there is eternal punishment and says that it’s not true. I was just showing that it is true and Jesus talks about eternal punishment and eternal life. People are either going to one or the other and its forever whatever choice one picks..that’s why its important to know that truth and to make a good decision because after you die..there are no more choices, you make your choice before you die.

It seems to me that both of you have been trying to turn the conversation to something else and avoid that Jesus says that there are only 2 choices, eternal life or eternal punishment.

Todd has specifically told you that the word they claim translates to eternal actually doesn’t. T translates to “of the ages” or “eon” or something. That isn’t the same thing. He’s made that clear.

I’ve posted you numerous bible verses which show something other than eternal punishment as well. You ignore them. It is what it is.

You take your translation and your interpretation as the only possible one. It isn’t. There have been denominations and groups within Christianity that have disagreed with you ever since Jesus was crucified. There are verses in the Bible which both support and contradict your belief and quite frankly I’m satisfied with my interpretation of it. Not because it suits me, but because it’s what spoke to my heart.

I don’t run around sinning or using it as an excuse t be a shitty person. If anything I take the Bible’s commands to be a good person and love others seemingly more serious than some hell and brimfire folks do. That isn’t convenient. It is worth it. God will judge my heart as he deems fit. I’m not concerned. And tbh your concern comes off as fake and condescending

 

[Todd]

I specifically mentioned the verse to show that there are two choices, there aren’t any other choices. What’s so hard about seeing that?

It's not hard to see a lie. What's so hard about seeing that the english translation you read is not accurate and that the original intent of the text paint a far more glorious and victorious God than the one that an institution of man has protrayed?

Telling people why they will be thrown in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth is part of the gospel. Telling people that there is a savior is the other part to that..the get out of jail free card if you will. It’s a good deal!

Edit: its a good deal and the only deal, honestly.

And it's even better than you think and claim it is.

 

[Todd]

The punishment and the life is eternal..so not just in the age to come.

No it's not....
I've clearly explained why, yet you continue to bury you head in the sand and cling to the sadistic image of God that chruch has indoctrinated you with.

 

[Lisa]

Todd has specifically told you that the word they claim translates to eternal actually doesn’t. T translates to “of the ages” or “eon” or something. That isn’t the same thing. He’s made that clear.

I’ve posted you numerous bible verses which show something other than eternal punishment as well. You ignore them. It is what it is.

You take your translation and your interpretation as the only possible one. It isn’t. There have been denominations and groups within Christianity that have disagreed with you ever since Jesus was crucified. There are verses in the Bible which both support and contradict your belief and quite frankly I’m satisfied with my interpretation of it. Not because it suits me, but because it’s what spoke to my heart.

I don’t run around sinning or using it as an excuse t be a shitty person. If anything I take the Bible’s commands to be a good person and love others seemingly more serious than some hell and brimfire folks do. That isn’t convenient. It is worth it. God will judge my heart as he deems fit. I’m not concerned. And tbh your concern comes off as fake and condescending

God can say anything he wants, doesn’t make it true.

I get that you have..but I actually posted where Jesus said there is eternal punishment..so I think that trumps anything you can post otherwise.

The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
‭‭Jeremiah17:9‬ ‭

You can’t know that you take things more serious than others. And we are told to tell people that there is a punishment for sin and offer the solution in Jesus, that’s the Christian’s job, its the Good News.

 

[Lisa]

It's not hard to see a lie. What's so hard about seeing that the english translation you read is not accurate and that the original intent of the text paint a far more glorious and victorious God than the one that an institution of man has protrayed?


And it's even better than you think and claim it is.

How is Jesus saying it a lie?

I think you read only what you want to read anymore Todd, not really what the text actually says is true.

 

[Todd]

Ya, many Sunday mornings resemble the country club...seems to be getting worse not better too. I know a woman who talks about loving the worship service at a church I used to go to a loooonnnngggg time ago because it resembles a rock concert. My husband had been going there and wanted me to come but I hated that rock concert and stopped going and so did he...

LOL! You realize my comment was directed at people like you who think works aren't necessary and that "just believing" is enough, don't you? It had nothing to do with the style of worship at a Sunday morning service. Classic @Lisa !

 

[Lisa]

No it's not....
I've clearly explained why, yet you continue to bury you head in the sand and cling to the sadistic image of God that chruch has indoctrinated you with.

No church indoctrinated me with anything...its quite clear in the Bible.

 

[Lisa]

LOL! You realize my comment was directed at people like you who think works aren't necessary and that "just believing" is enough, don't you? It had nothing to do with the style of worship at a Sunday morning service. Classic @Lisa !

I never said works aren’t necessary, but we do the works that God planned for us, not the ones we plan for ourselves and think looks good to God and to others. There is a difference.

 

[Todd]

How is Jesus saying it a lie?

I think you read only what you want to read anymore Todd, not really what the text actually says is true.

No, you are the one who refuses to attempt to understand what Jesus actually is recorded as saying in the original greek text and continue to cling to the faulty english translations that were given to you by organized, institutionalized religion.

 

[Lisa]

No, you are the one who refuses to attempt to understand what Jesus actually is recorded as saying in the original greek text and continue to cling to the faulty english translations that were given to you by organized, institutionalized religion.

I stand by this..
I think you read only what you want to read anymore Todd, not really what the text actually says is true.

 

[Todd]

No church indoctrinated me with anything...its quite clear in the Bible.

Yes it is quite clear that God's desire is that all men be reconciled and redeemed. It's also quite clear that God is omnipotent and fully capable of bringing about his will. It's also clear that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, not just those who believe.

You can choose to interpret the Bible in the light of a merciful, loving and omnipotent God or you can choose to intrepret it in the light of sadistic, vengeful God who is not really capable of bringing about his will.

I haven chosen the first, you have chosen the latter.

 

[Lisa]

Yes it is quite clear that God's desire is that all men be reconciled and redeemed. It's also quite clear that God is omnipotent and fully capable of bringing about his will. It's also clear that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, not just those who believe.

You can choose to interpret the Bible in the light of a merciful, loving and omnipotent God or you can choose to intrepret it in the light of sadistic, vengeful God who is not really capable of bringing about his will.

I haven chosen the first, you have chosen the latter.

No, I have not chosen the latter, that you think the latter God a sadistic, vengeful God is pretty sad. God is merciful, omnipotent and loving God just as you said..but He is also a Holy God who hates sin and says that there is an eternal punishment for that sin and the only way out of going to that punishment is through His Son Jesus. I don’t see where that is sadistic. He doesn’t want people to perish.

God does bring about His will but His will is that people believe, not forced into it, but on their own. Jesus did die for all..while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Those who believe are just the ones who took Him up on His offer of eternal life, nothing more, nothing less. That those same people now try to tell others about God and His offer while still having sin is the human condition....and all God has to work with.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

I was referring mostly to the fact that you say pedos and homos...I don’t think that by saying it like that that it sounds like you care about those people..more like condemning them with that kind of speech. So, when you say you go soul winning...I don’t really believe then that you care about the people you are trying to ‘soul win.’

They are sins..so is a lot of other stuff..God sees all sin as bad, not just the ones you think are worse. There is only one punishment for all sin...that should tell you something right there.

Maybe you think you’re intentions are pure..but it sounds jerk like here. People need to hear the gospel, but if they are going to be called pedo or homo...more than likely they aren’t going to hear anything at all and that’s what I’m trying to tell you.

Firstly, you are making up false accusations because I never call anyone names when out soul winning. EVER.

Even if they ARE a homo, I probably wouldn’t know because I don’t ask. I don’t want or need to hear a list of all their sins; I already know that we are all sinners....my interest lies in whether or not they want to hear how they can be saved from the wages of their sin through Christ Jesus.

It’s clear you have never bothered to go soul winning yourself, or you would know that it simply involves asking someone if you can show them from the Bible how to be saved, and if they allow you, showing the verses while giving them the Gospel directly from the Bible, and if they believe, praying with them to receive salvation. That’s it.



No name-calling, rudeness or shunning involved. You are falsely assuming things & putting words in my mouth that I do NOT say when I go out soulwinning.

Discussing doctrine on a public forum is NOT soul winning.....it’s discussing doctrine on a public forum.

So again, I DO NOT CARE if you believe my intentions are pure or not. I know that they are, but more importantly, GOD knows. And that is Who I seek to please, not you.

And yes, ANY sin is enough to send someone to Hell, but not ALL sin is equal, according to the Bible, and there are greater punishments in Hell, just as there are greater & lesser rewards in Heaven, so saying all sin is equal is a FALSE doctrine you continue to teach.....show me ONE verse that states all sin is equal.

You have to be OUT OF YOUR MIND to actually believe lying about why you were late to work is ANYWHERE NEAR as bad as beating a child to death!

But go ahead & believe what you want, even if it’s not true, but for you to teach people something that’s unbiblical is to deceive others, and that is being a false prophet.

 

[Lisa]

Firstly, you are making up false accusations because I never call anyone names when out soul winning. EVER.

Even if they ARE a homo, I probably wouldn’t know because I don’t ask. I don’t want or need to hear a list of all their sins; I already know that we are all sinners....my interest lies in whether or not they want to hear how they can be saved from the wages of their sin through Christ Jesus.

It’s clear you have never bothered to go soul winning yourself, or you would know that it simply involves asking someone if you can show them from the Bible how to be saved, and if they allow you, showing the verses while giving them the Gospel directly from the Bible, and if they believe, praying with them to receive salvation. That’s it.



No name-calling, rudeness or shunning involved. You are falsely assuming things & putting words in my mouth that I do NOT say when I go out soulwinning.

Discussing doctrine on a public forum is NOT soul winning.....it’s discussing doctrine on a public forum.

So again, I DO NOT CARE if you believe my intentions are pure or not. I know that they are, but more importantly, GOD knows. And that is Who I seek to please, not you.

And yes, ANY sin is enough to send someone to Hell, but not ALL sin is equal, according to the Bible, and there are greater punishments in Hell, just as there are greater & lesser rewards in Heaven, so saying all sin is equal is a FALSE doctrine you continue to teach.....show me ONE verse that states all sin is equal.

You have to be OUT OF YOUR MIND to actually believe lying about why you were late to work is ANYWHERE NEAR as bad as beating a child to death!

But go ahead & believe what you want, even if it’s not true, but for you to teach people something that’s unbiblical is to deceive others, and that is being a false prophet.

What’s a greater punishment than hell?

You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘ You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY ’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
‭‭Matthew ‭5:21-22, 27-28‬ ‭
To God it’s all sin and it’s all bad. It doesn’t seem to me that there are degrees of sin in those verses...it’s all bad.

I don’t know how you go soul winning but I know how you talk here...but obviously you don’t understand my meaning...

 

[Claire Rousseau]

There is nothing in that passage which excludes Todd’s argument. It doesn’t say eternally or give a length of time this would be occurring for.

Mark 9 (KJB) :
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.



&


“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”.........Matthew 25:41 KJB


“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”.....Matthew 25:46 KJB


The Bible EXPLICITLY says punishment is “EVERLASTING”.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

What’s a greater punishment than hell?

You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘ You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY ’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
‭‭Matthew ‭5:21-22, 27-28‬ ‭
To God it’s all sin and it’s all bad. It doesn’t seem to me that there are degrees of sin in those verses...it’s all bad.

I don’t know how you go soul winning but I know how you talk here...but obviously you don’t understand my meaning...

All sin is bad, and God hates all sin, but there are greater sins and lesser sins, with punishments prescribed by God to fit the crime.

Haven’t you read Leviticus? It lists God’s prescribed punishments for various transgressions, like stealing had to be repaid 3-4 times the value of what was stolen, whereas a greater sin like kidnapping & homosexual behavior was punished with the death penalty.

Why would He command different degrees of punishment if it was all the exact same to Him?



If there weren’t greater sins, there could not be greater punishments:



^^Clearly, the Pharisees will receive the “greater” damnation. Jesus said so Himself.

There CANNOT be a “greater” WITHOUT a lesser.

There is NOTHING worse than going to Hell. But since God created Hell, He must know that there are even worse parts of Hell for the worst offenders.

The Bible says we are saved by faith..... but ....the UNSAVED are JUDGED by their works:

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”....... Revelation 20:12 KJB

 

[Lisa]

All sin is bad, and God hates all sin, but there are greater sins and lesser sins, with punishments prescribed by God to fit the crime.

Haven’t you read Leviticus? It lists God’s prescribed punishments for various transgressions, like stealing had to be repaid 3-4 times the value of what was stolen, whereas a greater sin like kidnapping & homosexual behavior was punished with the death penalty.

Why would He command different degrees of punishment if it was all the exact same to Him?



If there weren’t greater sins, there could not be greater punishments:

View attachment 23122

^^Clearly, the Pharisees will receive the “greater” damnation. Jesus said so Himself.

There CANNOT be a “greater” WITHOUT a lesser.

There is NOTHING worse than going to Hell. But since God created Hell, He must know that there are even worse parts of Hell for the worst offenders.

The Bible says we are saved by faith..... but ....the UNSAVED are JUDGED by their works:

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”....... Revelation 20:12 KJB

Aren’t the unsaved judged so they know what they did to deserve hell?

You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
Matthew 23:33
Looks like they are still sentenced to hell and then Jesus says they will receive greater condemnation. Doesn’t mean that they are going to a greater hell. I don’t think there is a greater hell.

Jesus just made the one sacrifice for all sin, there weren’t different degrees of His sacrifice. And He also said...
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
‭‭Matthew 25:46‬ ‭
Notice it doesn’t say eternal punishments.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Aren’t the unsaved judged so they know what they did to deserve hell?

You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
Matthew 23:33
Looks like they are still sentenced to hell and then Jesus says they will receive greater condemnation. Doesn’t mean that they are going to a greater hell. I don’t think there is a greater hell.

Jesus just made the one sacrifice for all sin, there weren’t different degrees of His sacrifice. And He also said...
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
‭‭Matthew 25:46‬ ‭
Notice it doesn’t say eternal punishments.

No, Lisa, it’s pretty clear.

I believe there is only one Hell, and that it is all fiery, horrible and unbearable, but there are greater parts of it with MORE suffering even though it all lasts forever.

I believe that Heaven is also this way, because the Bible says we earn heavenly rewards, so clearly not everyone will have the same experience in Heaven (some will have a better, more rewarding experience of Heaven than others).

People like John the Baptist, for example, who was martyred for Christ, will have more rewards than say, the thief on the Cross who was just saved & did nothing for the cause of Christ.

Your Bible changes the words of Scripture so it is more confusing & unclear than the KJB.