Any vegetarians or vegans here?

DavidSon

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@DavidSon

I always thought it interesting that this was essentially foretold in 1 Timothy--

... in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith... forbidding to marry — to abstain from meats that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those believing and acknowledging the truth...​

Foretold of what time period? "Abstain from meats" must be referring to the contention over eating pork, correct? Funny my version says "food" but I get the meaning. I'm also not into making diets and discussions about food the center of my life. As Paul continues:

8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but Godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.

But what are we to make of the stories from other ages in the Bible?

(posted earlier by @shankara)

And God said, "See I have given you every herb that yields see which is on the face of the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food." - GEN 1:29

So the first man and woman, made in the image of God, were veggies! :) Shouldn't we strive to live by the original pattern of nature?
At some point the desires of man's lower self got the best of him as we read of the covenant with Noah in Genesis:

"Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood" - 9:3-4

These verses show the possibility the Bible is a collection of books from different ages and possibly even different tribes.
 

Stina

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i hope you are off of those soy products. they are a bad substitute.
by the way, some people find that consuming raw milk instead of pasteurized (mucus-forming) milk makes a huge difference in allergic reactions. its not always so easy to find, though.
Raw cow milk only or any type?
My people have been sheperds for millenia and we've yet to discover the benefits of drinking the milk raw, unless you count enterocolitis as one.
In my area we herd cows too and my family has never let me drink the milk we've got from our cows without boiling it first.
I think those benefits that people who consume raw milk feel are not due to the fact that the milk hasn't been boiled, but because the milk comes from a private farm instead of the factory type farms which produce antibiotic/hormone/puss/bacteria filled milk from their poor cows.
 

polymoog

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Raw cow milk only or any type?
raw milk only-- pasteurized milk is different. the heating process destroys key enzymes in the milk. if the milk is fresh, youve got nothing to worry about. private farms will always have better quality than factory farms, who are solely into it for the profit.
 

Stina

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raw milk only-- pasteurized milk is different. the heating process destroys key enzymes in the milk. if the milk is fresh, youve got nothing to worry about. private farms will always have better quality than factory farms, who are solely into it for the profit.
I was asking about source animal: cow, sheep, goat? Sorry if my English is confusing. Nevermind though, I looked up the US milk market percentages and you were most probably referring to cow milk.
Definitely buy it raw from farmers, but boil it on low heat until it starts to rise and only then drink it.
Those enzymes you're talking about are made specially for a calf/lamb/kid's development, not to help humans, this doesn't mean it's bad for us but lactose tolerance came to exist because of necessity, it's an abnormal condition in the global human population, most babies lose the ability to digest milk when they grow. Milk feeds you but it's not meant to nourish YOU.
You can also feed on raw tree bark, see North Korea, but that doesn't mean you should do that just so you don't alter the properties of the bark, but you can make a healthy tree bark tea though.

Reality is you can't keep an udder clean. You can't keep a cow from flinging its tail continuosly like they do and thus throwing particles of shit everywhere especially on the udder and it won't let you wash it properly either. Central Europeans have consumed milk for thousands of years, if raw milk was healthier than boiled milk everyone here would be drinking it.
Good luck though!
 

polymoog

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I was asking about source animal: cow, sheep, goat? Sorry if my English is confusing. Nevermind though, I looked up the US milk market percentages and you were most probably referring to cow milk.
Definitely buy it raw from farmers, but boil it on low heat until it starts to rise and only then drink it.
Those enzymes you're talking about are made specially for a calf/lamb/kid's development, not to help humans, this doesn't mean it's bad for us but lactose tolerance came to exist because of necessity, it's an abnormal condition in the global human population, most babies lose the ability to digest milk when they grow. Milk feeds you but it's not meant to nourish YOU.
You can also feed on raw tree bark, see North Korea, but that doesn't mean you should do that just so you don't alter the properties of the bark, but you can make a healthy tree bark tea though.

Reality is you can't keep an udder clean. You can't keep a cow from flinging its tail continuosly like they do and thus throwing particles of shit everywhere especially on the udder and it won't let you wash it properly either. Central Europeans have consumed milk for thousands of years, if raw milk was healthier than boiled milk everyone here would be drinking it.
Good luck though!
its my understanding that the enzymes are what really makes raw milk a superfood. boiling denatures the enzymes. but dont take my word for it-- look it up!
the cows tail is oftentimes tied up during milking on small scale farms. the cows ankles are tied up to prevent them from kicking, but youre right-- sometimes cow dung particles get flung into the milk pail. thats not a big deal, since the particles of dirt float and can be skimmed off. they get stuck in the small bubbles at the top. a good milker can pull the pail away when the cow is going to start dancing around.

the reason cow milk is boiled today is because there were low (if any) standards of shipping/transporting the milk to cities, as well as poor milking practices. this was a time when children worked in sweatshops, there were no emergency doors or windows, no breaks for employees, etc. its was all about the robber baron type making a profit with little or no government regulation. disease outbreaks were blamed on the milk (justified or not) and eventually, pasteurization became the norm. the milking process can be sloppy and careless when one knows that it will be sterilized anyway. so... its not that people went to pasteurization because of health. they went that direction for safety regulations.

in many places of the US, raw milk is actually illegal.

did you "raw" almonds from the US are pasteurized? this is to prevent food borne illness as well. im sure you know the health benefits of raw, healthy nuts vs cooked nuts. apply that to the milk situation.
i wont eat the cooked almonds-- i bought a 25# bag directly from the grower in CA so i know its 100% raw.
 

Lisa

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sometimes cow dung particles get flung into the milk pail.
I’ve just realized that I don’t know a lot about food processing..I think I could have lived without knowing that..ignorance really is bliss. Lol!
 

polymoog

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I’ve just realized that I don’t know a lot about food processing..I think I could have lived without knowing that..ignorance really is bliss. Lol!
you ought to be more concerned about rat and mice droppings in your processed food that cow dung, which should only be digested grass.
 

Lisa

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you ought to be more concerned about rat and mice droppings in your processed food that cow dung, which should only be digested grass.
Definitely was happier before I came into this thread!
 

Stina

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the cows tail is oftentimes tied up during milking on small scale farms. the cows ankles are tied up to prevent them from kicking, but youre right-- sometimes cow dung particles get flung into the milk pail. thats not a big deal, since the particles of dirt float and can be skimmed off. they get stuck in the small bubbles at the top. a good milker can pull the pail away when the cow is going to start dancing around.
I wasn't referring to the tail during the milking process, but in general. Obviously you have to secure the tail when you're milking a cow if you dont want to get surprised by a tail in the face while you're down there.
I was saying that you can't keep a cow from spraying feces on the udder with the tail (or even directly from the source, lol) and since you can't even bathe small pets everyday, you certainly can't give a cow a good wash before every milking, it's a big animal, not an object like I get the sense that people there perceive it as. I don't know who told you that fecal particles float, we're talking particles not pieces.
the reason cow milk is boiled today is because there were low (if any) standards of shipping/transporting the milk to cities, as well as poor milking practices. this was a time when children worked in sweatshops, there were no emergency doors or windows, no breaks for employees, etc. its was all about the robber baron type making a profit with little or no government regulation. disease outbreaks were blamed on the milk (justified or not) and eventually, pasteurization became the norm. the milking process can be sloppy and careless when one knows that it will be sterilized anyway. so... its not that people went to pasteurization because of health. they went that direction for safety regulations.
I know this explanation to why humans boil milk makes sense to you but in my country is has nothing to do with reality. People have been boiling milk here before food started being mass-produced, from when you had to grow and make your own food.
Even today half of the country is countryside territory, it's like stepping into another world, not the way countryside is in America. You want to know how people lived centuries ago, before the industrial era, before any capitalism or communism, then you just take a trip to our countryside, no time machine needed. There are still plenty of isolated people in the mountains who never even had an encounter with the modern world, they aren't interested in learning how people in the cities live, they prefer their old ways, many didn't even learn how to write because they had no use for it, BUT they do know that you should boil milk. They didn't learn to boil milk from the media or from milk companies, it's simply common sense.
My mother grew up in the countryside, she never had a childhood because she rarely had a moment's rest due to the fact that almost all of their food had to be made by the family members themselves. She got up way before the crack of dawn and got to sleep too late into the night. You think that peasants like my mother was, are doing an extra chore like boiling milk just for the hell of it, if milk really was just as good or even better in raw form? We like our rest, we don't do stuff just to make time fly faster, especially when you've got enough work on your hands already.
I'm not interested in studies about milk enzymes, I've read studies that were talking about the benefits of fluoride in your water, I prefer reality. If raw milk was just as healthy or healthier than boiled milk we would have felt it. We are big producers and consumers of all types of milk (cow/sheep/goat/bivoliță) both in the countryside and in the industry. The benefits you might be reaping from drinking raw milk are due to the fact that you're drinking natural milk/real milk instead of factory milk. It's not because it's not boiled, rather it's because of where it comes from.

in many places of the US, raw milk is actually illegal.
I know, I saw it in a Schitts' Creek episode. I thought it was satyre at the beggining of the episode, because why on earth would you make raw milk illegal? But when I looked it up and found out it was real I was in a daze, I even stupidly hit myself on the head, lol, it took me an embarrasingly long time to get out of that stupour.

Sorry about the long reply but I get kind of annoyed when I see America constantly trying to reinvent the wheel by starting all sorts of stupid health trends and unfortunately influencing the rest of the world. Fats=bad, sugars=bad, gluten=bad, salt=bad, everything=bad BUT raw milk=good. There are some young people in my country who have given up gluten without having any intolerence to it (we haven't yet developed any food intolerances/allergies) but they're giving it up because they've read/heard/watched a lot of your propaganda.
 

polymoog

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I was saying that you can't keep a cow from spraying feces on the udder with the tail (or even directly from the source, lol) and since you can't even bathe small pets everyday, you certainly can't give a cow a good wash before every milking, it's a big animal, not an object like I get the sense that people there perceive it as. I don't know who told you that fecal particles float, we're talking particles not pieces.
youre entitled to your opinion. ive got first hand experience about this. no one washes the entire udder. they wash the teats. i dont ever recall seeing a cow with cow dung on its udder, even from the end of the tail hitting it. the very small particles will float-- at least if the cows are grass fed, the dry stuff will float. there are larger particles that sink if, say, she kicks up some mud, but thats easily filtered out.
ive drank a lot of raw milk and never got sick. i am also a bit lactose intolerant. a lot of people who have tried both prefer the boiled milk because they dont like the consistency of the raw milk, which is very watery; a bit like 2% milkfat milk. the pasteurized/boiled milk is far thicker.
i dont know why your countryside people are boiling it-- i would guess they are boiling it to sterilize it as another precautionary level of food safety.

Sorry about the long reply but I get kind of annoyed when I see America constantly trying to reinvent the wheel by starting all sorts of stupid health trends and unfortunately influencing the rest of the world. Fats=bad, sugars=bad, gluten=bad, salt=bad, everything=bad BUT raw milk=good. There are some young people in my country who have given up gluten without having any intolerence to it (we haven't yet developed any food intolerances/allergies) but they're giving it up because they've read/heard/watched a lot of your propaganda.
i understand your hang-up with the american propaganda (lots of us dont like it either), but i dont subscribe to those beliefs.
 

Stina

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youre entitled to your opinion. ive got first hand experience about this. no one washes the entire udder. they wash the teats. i dont ever recall seeing a cow with cow dung on its udder, even from the end of the tail hitting it. the very small particles will float-- at least if the cows are grass fed, the dry stuff will float. there are larger particles that sink if, say, she kicks up some mud, but thats easily filtered out.
ive drank a lot of raw milk and never got sick. i am also a bit lactose intolerant. a lot of people who have tried both prefer the boiled milk because they dont like the consistency of the raw milk, which is very watery; a bit like 2% milkfat milk. the pasteurized/boiled milk is far thicker.
i dont know why your countryside people are boiling it-- i would guess they are boiling it to sterilize it as another precautionary level of food safety.
I think we boil it because we haven't yet become bored with life, we've had enough excitement over the eras to desire to take senseless risks for no reason. Do you think people boiled milk from when they first started drinking it? Of course not. They had plenty of time to first experience it raw. Then why trade something better (raw milk) for something worse (boiled milk). You don't.
Just so we're clear, I wouldn't ever advise anyone to boil milk the way they do in factories, that's not the way to do it. They practically kill it.

If you are that in love with raw milk at least try the actually good ones. Cow milk should be the very last on the list. Try some goat milk, or at least sheep, they are more expensive even here, but it's worth it if you want quality milk.

no one washes the entire udder. they wash the teats.
Exactly. It's not sanitary. Unless you wash the entire animal it is just not sanitary. Obviously you can't do that because it won't let you anyway and it would be too cruel to the animal who's doing you a great favour already. In my opinion tying their legs so they won't be able to move is cruel too but different mentalities I guess.
Let's say you would need to get a surgery on your underbuttocks and there's no other way of sanitizing the area apart from washing it. Do you go in the shower and only wash that part? No, you wash the entire body, because you can't clean only that area since dirty water from above will surely drip down to where you should remain clean. It's not feasable, unless we don't share the same concept of clean and I suspect we don't. You can clean only your head (if your hair doesn't hang down past it) but you can't only clean a body part that's below another body part. Only a topside bodypart can be washed by itself.
Ever see surgeons wash their hands before they go in the operation room? They always rinse with their hands above their elbows, never elbows above the hands because their hands wouldn't remain sterile otherwise.


i understand your hang-up with the american propaganda (lots of us dont like it either), but i dont subscribe to those beliefs.
I wasnt referring to you specifically with allof those examples, I wanted to bring to attention the fact that your country sets a lot of good is bad, bad is good distasteful trends in the food department, and raw milk is one of them. Soy is bad being another one. Maybe your soy is bad, I have no way of knowing, but not soy in general. Billions of people have no problem with it.
I also understand that you never got sick from raw milk, but you're an adult (not child or elderly or sickly) and you are one example and you surely haven't drank it for decades or better yet, centuries to see if your luck ever runs out. You have no idea what influence you can have on other individuals of other nations.
What I don't understand is how someone can deem a liquid that has had dung or mud in it, to be able to magically become clean again just by physically removing the dung/hey/mud/whatever else from it.
It's a liquid
 
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AshCash

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I'm vegan! I've been vegan for about 3-4 years now or maybe longer then that IDK cause I went vegetarian for about 5 months then I would go vegan and back. But I'm completely vegan now for at least 3 years so yeah I'm happy about that :) I made the choice all by myself and I stand by it 100% It makes me happy and I love being vegan! It's like completely natural for me I don't miss any animal products and my eczema has healed. My immune system is better too I rarely get sick. I don't eat unhealthy vegan junk either because Lays chips are vegan and Soda too but I don't have any of those for over 2 years now. I just stick to my diet now which is nuts, fruits, vegetables, smoothies, and yeah that's it. But keep in mind I ain't a twig either I def have some muscle and a small hourglass figure like my mom. The stereotype is that vegans are super skinny but that's not true. I would say I'm fit/slender for my age. My brother actually is skinnier then me and eats a regular diet which is funny xD I guess it depends how you're built too. I tend to be vegan for the rest of my days! It's actually fun and there's SOOOO much variety. You can literally make anything vegan. I just tend to stay away from processed foods but I like myself some beans and rice from time to time. I'm like a super weird vegan TBH I don't eat vegan burritos or anything. I'm pretty clean kinda Raw Vegan but not really cause I like potatoes and air fried kale chips.
 

Jack W

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Long long time lurker, just joined to comment on this.

Look - I was vegetarian for 7 or 8 years and vegan for about 2. You know what I ended up with? An autoimmune disease in which I cannot consume any grains or lecithins without having serious issues. I also have to cut back WAY back on soy products as well. What does that leave with me with? Pretty much a more restricted Paleo diet. Am I happy with it? No. But that is life. I can either have my immune system attack certain organs or I can avoid consuming the foods that can the inflammation and calm my system down.

While I'm not 'allergic' but reactions I have to consuming gluten and lecithins cause serious bloating, my joins to ache, edema in my feet and my face to swell up and it takes weeks for it to go down.

Vegan/Vegetarian may be great for you, but it royally screwed my system over. Autoimmune diseases are currently on the rise and are becoming more and more common. I was once like you - thought vegetarian and vegan was the healthiest out there until I realized it made my body attack it's own organs.
Paleo diet is the best option. It's hard to avoid grains... and dairy. But is the most healthy option.
 

Jack W

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I tried vegan... but then I changed to paleo.
I think omega 3 from the fish is very important for the brain.
Sometimes I have a break of mi my paleo diet.. and then I come back again.
It's hard to eliminate grains and diary.. I love cheese, milk , corn and bread :S
But I'm very sensitive , so I follow an anti-inflamatory and organic diet most of the time.
I think ayurveda is great, I have a ayurveva doctor and she helped me a lot with my health with diet and specials herbs extracts and teas.

Synthetics sumplements from the pharmacy is not a good idea. There are somes studies that show the side effects of Synthetics suplements... It's like poison. It's better to eat healthy, take natural sumplements and take sometimes a sunbaths with skin protection (not too much sun, 30 minutes maximun).

I believe every person is different , and some people have a food intolerance and somes not. The best option is listen to your body... If you have joint pain or any inflamatory respond, try to find if there is any food that make you sick. Then, stop eat that food for a week and check out if the pain has gone or reduce. If the pain is gone or reduce, directly eliminate that food from your diet. Some people is allergic to tomatoes, others to milk, others to eggs, etc etc. Every person is different.
 
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Tidal

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I'm not vegan / vegetarian because I've always been a great believer in giving my stomach whatever it tells me it wants: sometimes it tells me it wants a meal of meat and veg etc, and sometimes a fry-up of egg and chips etc..:)
I've learnt that if I don't give it what it's asking for and give it something else, I feel empty and unfilled and still hungry, but I find meat products are a great filler.
Another thing- God designed our bodies and arranged for our stomachs to tell our brains what it wants, which seems the perfect arrangement to me..:)
God said- "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Genesis 9:3)
 

Skeptical Dog

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Has anybody read Dr. P.J D'Adamo books?

If you did, what are your thoughts?

Here's a mini info:

Dr. P.J. D’Adamo, a naturopathic physician, was the first person to introduce the idea of a blood diet type in his book “Eat Right for Your Type,” which was originally published in 1996. D’Adamo based his suggestions on research he had done regarding the dietary habits of ancestral tribes and communities. He postulates in his books that the different blood types developed during periods in history when people had access to only certain foods, which contributed to changes in their digestive systems and their ability to tolerate different foods. He specifically bases many of his recommendations on varying levels of stomach acids and enzymes that he links to different blood types.
Read it; tried it and found it to be total B/S. Eating for my type (A) had me eliminating all meat and dairy in favor of grains, legumes. Say hello to Type 2. Went keto and improved my A1c in a few months.
 

Tidal

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I'm 73 years old and have always eaten whatever I fancied all my life (meat, veg etc you name it) regardless of whether it's supposed to be good or bad for us; i've simply done my own thing and am still alive in good health, heck I'm even a covid survivor!
I suppose we old 'uns build up an immunity to plagues and stuff over the years..:)


 
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