Another Perspective On Lgbtq

elsbet

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I know what intersex conditions are. Their biological sex ends up ambiguous, they are neither male nor female... Yet many of them still feel like a man or woman, they still have a gender identity that they are in tune with.
They possess characteristics of both, actually. I'm not sure how the rest applies to the previous post.

From above:

mecca said:
All humans have and deserve rights. Rights are equal and no one should be mistreated for who they are.
Indeed... and I said this:

Interesting to note--

Trans-Stats
"... 2016 suggested a current US population size of 390 adults per 100 000, or almost 1 million adults nationally. This estimate may be more indicative for younger adults, who represented more than 50% of the respondents in our analysis."

Further.. most kids outgrow the "dysphoria"-- desist is the term.

How perfectly evil is it that children are given 'puberty blockers' prior to introducing hormones of the opposite sex into their still growing bodies? It's very evil, of course-- they're trying to be sure they STRIKE while the iron is still hot, before they outgrow it.

Wonder how many of the trans people are actually being re-victimized by this malpractice. ..
:/


Because that ^^^ is one hell of a mistreatment.. no one deserves that.
 






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Gender dysphoria is a symptom and it can arise when of some sort of prenatal hormone disruption/difference causes your brain to develop more towards one way, and your body to develop the other way.
A transgender person doesn't have dysphoria because their body was one way and it has been drastically altered, they never felt like their body was right for them in the first place.
@mecca

Can you show how rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) in adolescence is explained by this ^ narrative?

It is an identity...
No, it is identity politics.:p
 






mecca

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They possess characteristics of both, actually.
Yeah, which means that they are neither. They have ambiguous biology, that's why they're called intersex and not male or female.
It's very evil, of course-- they're trying to be sure they STRIKE while the iron is still hot, before they outgrow it.
I don't think you understand what a puberty blocker is... the entire purpose of the blockers are to give the child more time to decide if they actually are 100% transgender and want to transition when they're older, it allows them to grow older without having to go through the physical changes that cause transgender people extreme amounts of dysphoria. They aren't taking any hormones. And the children that even get to the level of going on puberty blockers are the ones who are already extremely invested and certain in their identity in the first place, usually when they reach that level, they are sure of themselves and they have not grown out of it. But if they did happen to change their mind, they could simply stop taking the blockers and continue on normally.

The process of determining if a child is actually transgender and is not just going to grow out of it is very involved. They are evaluated by professionals who can determine the difference between a child who is truly sure and persistent in their identity and one who isn't. They continue to work with them over many years... there is ample time for a child to grow out of it or change their mind in the process... there are no permanent changes taking place for young transgender people and their doctors and therapists would never move on to any treatment that can cause changes until they were certain that it was necessary and the child isn't growing out of it. Even determining if it is necessary for a child to socially transition and just go by a dufferent name and pronouns is a process that takes evaluation. The whole process takes place over many years and these things are accounted for and paid attention to... it's not a rushed thing. It is centered around the child and their needs, no one would want to do something that hurts the child or is against their best interest. And a lot of the time the parents of transgender children have already waited a very long time before even taking their child to professionals because they expected their child to grow out of it and they simply didn't.

Also, I think you're attributing some sort of malicious intent when there is none. You are calling them evil and claiming that they actually want their child to go through an unnecessary transition and that's simply not true. The parents, doctors, and therapists are concerned for the well being of the child and want them to have a happy life, they can't just ignore the dysphoria that they child is experiencing so they are getting help. Transitioning is a very serious thing and no one jumps into it, even the reversible aspects are only done if necessary... and young children are not going through any permanent transitioning processes in the first place. Therapists want what is best for their patients and If someone can have a happy life with little or no transitioning then that is good for them and they will be supported in that, no one is pushed into transitioning.
 






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mecca

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Can you show how rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) in adolescence is explained by this ^ narrative?
It's not a narrative, it's a description of gender dysphoria in comparison to another form of dysphoria. And rapid onset dysphoria is not an actual medical term or diagnosis.
No, it is identity politics.:p
Transgender issues have been recently politicized but that doesn't mean that their entire existence is political, their gender is their personal experience and identity, it actually has nothing to do with politics or the government. They exist regardless of if it is a popular political topic or debate.
 






elsbet

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The process of determining if a child is actually transgender and is not just going to grow out of it is very involved. They are evaluated by professionals and they can determine the difference between a child who is truly sure and persistent in their identity and one who isn't. They continue to work with them over many years... there is ample time for a child to grow out of it or change their mind in the process... there are no permanent changes taking place for young transgender people and their doctors and therapists would never move on to any treatment that can cause changes until they were certain that it was necessary and the child isn't growing out of it.
That's not true. This is a fabulously unethical thing they're doing, and it's an everloving crapshoot.

They're using experimental drugs on healthy children, that *prevent* the one change that consistently resolves and relieves the so-called dysphoria, in the vast majority of these cases. And... they admit it. That right there should tell you everything you need to know about the nature of the medical industry. Perhaps you're naive, though.

So... two things: First, the nature of the medical industry--
If you haven't done so yet, I'd advise you do some research on the FDA-- they have significantly shortened the length of time required, for many drugs to get approved. The fallout has been tremendous because they don't know the long-term effects when they put them on the shelf. If they really cared, as you believe they do, they would allow for proper testing and generics would be available, at the appropriate time (rather than applying for yet another patent renewal). Money is the primary motivator, and with it comes power-- you'll have to do your own research there-- huuuge topic.

Next-- Misdiagnosis
From all this extra reading I've done, it seems important to note that the behavior of these 'distressed' and 'suicidal' kids sounds like the behavior of abused children. Self mutilation, suicidal ideation, depression, etc. Easy to see how eating disorders could manifest here, too-- too thin, too fat, too whatever, as long as they are decidedly NOT themselves. And it makes sense-- 2/3 of transgender kids admit they have been sexually attacked, typically, by an adult family member.

"Also, I think you're attributing some sort of malicious intent... "
Nothing gets past you.
 






Bacsi

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This is a letter to the editor of my local paper. The author runs the organization vaccination liberation army http://vaclib.org/ and is very well informed on these topics.

Gender variance not a choice
By Eileen Dannemann | Jul 13, 2017

To the editor:

Those who think the decision to gender change is “simply psychological” are misinformed.

Transgender and LGBTIQ community (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex and Questioning) posture that the gender spectrum is simply a progressive shift in the evolution of humanity or simply a different sexual orientation than some people aren’t used to.

They are understandably in defense of their very existence.

As early as the 1940s, Dr. Peter Montague of Rachel’s Hazardous Waste Newsletter has been reporting on endocrine disruptors, such as DDT, Atrazine, Alachlor, dioxins, for example. He reported in 1940, concomitant with the introduction of toxic agriculture, that male sperm count had already decreased by 50 percent.

Has anyone wondered why decades of couples are finding it difficult, if not impossible to conceive? Why fertility clinics are ubiquitous? Why traditional conception is giving way to test tube babies? And why gender confounding is rising and soaring off the charts?

The consideration that alternative gender identity is a result of toxic agricultural practices is apparently politically incorrect and socially unacceptable as it suggests that alternative gender identity is an aberration, a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome.

Negative impacts on environmental health, industrial pollution of air, food and water, pharmacological pollution from toxic medications, chemical pollution of our food via pesticides and processing additives, interruptions in human sexual development are linked very dynamically at the epigenetic level.

These factors, in the form of hormonal insults, contribute to the formation of transgender (and LGBTIQ issues) individuals. Industries that emit dioxin into the environment – paper producers, waste incinerators, metal smelters, and herbicide producers and users – are suspiciously absent from culpability in this transgender narrative.

Society still refuses to acknowledge environmentally caused gender variance, despite being warned for more than half a century of the acceleration of this non-procreative identity crisis due to endocrine disruption.

The liberal left and LGBTIQ desperately promote gender variance as normal. I, for one, don’t buy it. As long as farmers, pharmaceutical giants, vaccine producers, packaging and plastics manufacturers and our nation’s war machinery continue their use of endocrine disrupting chemicals, they careen the society towards chemically induced androgyny and transhumanism.

Guess what ... extinction happens! In any case, it is the responsibility of society to ensure happiness of those individuals who are gender confounded.

In other words: It is not their choice; it is ours!
Besides from Chemicals, being exposed to LGBQT propaganda during teenage years was proven to increase chances of gender dysphoria.

So, it's mostly a psycholohical thing. Avoidable by removing LGBQT propaganda from society.
 






mecca

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That's not true.
What do you mean it's not true?... everything I described is how the therapists actually go about helping the children who are already actually determined to be transgender. You could research it for yourself if you wanted. Professionals know the signs of a transgender child in comparison to an abused child, they are supposed to accurately evaluate the children. They take everything into account and of course they have thought of other possible scenarios that could cause a child to do certain things. But the therapy is centered around listening to the child and helping them with their needs, they don't force the child to do or think anything. They allow the child to be themselves. If a child is having problems specifically with their gender, the therapist listens to them and allows them to express what the problems are and they help them deal with it.

They are therapists, their job is to listen to, understand, and study the children so they can help them... I don't know what you think is going on in these scenarios, but they are professionals who know what they're doing and are following concrete scientific guidelines. It's not some uncalculated free for all where random kids are being prescribed unnecessary or excessive medication for no reason at all. Everything is tailored specifically to each individual child's needs and any decision on treatment is made in the best interest of that specific child and what will help them to have a happy and fulfilling life. Most children do not even go on blockers in the first place, even if they are actually transgender. If blockers will benefit the child and their family can afford them, then they may actually consider taking them... but even then, they may decide that they don't want to.

And like I said, if someone even gets to the level of taking puberty blockers, they are already quite certain in their identity, they have passed through a lot of checkups and evaluations to even be recommended the blockers, and they are only taken if they are certainly necessary to help the child deal with what they are going through. Going through puberty is what can cause an actual transgender person to want to commit suicide because their body is going further into the direction they don't want and they feel like they are turning into a different person who is not themselves. Putting a pause on that can be quite helpful for them so they can figure themselves out and not be suicidal. If they decide that they want to stop taking puberty blockers, they can just stop and their puberty will resume.
 






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Nah, it is a choice to me but as long as they don't shove it down our throats or force feed the debunked mentality of "born like this". they can do whatever they want. Sexual relations of two consenting adults is none of our business.
You are right, Except in the Church!
 






Aero

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I'm convinced the right will never get tired of exaggerating the scope of this issue.

I suppose it's entertaining and a little bit informative though. This type of stuff is a real problem for some families, and we cannot ignore that. However, that shouldn't lead to rash decisions. I mean we just had discussions about censorship being bad, but here we are. Reading about how yall want to censor the LBGT.

If we remove all of the holocaust denial propaganda will holocaust denial go away? Probably not. That argument just doesn't hold much water. We cannot remove what is in the human unconscious. That's why I never argue in favor of censorship. I argue in favor of mitigation, which is exactly what the scientific community is doing.

There are a billion different inherited traits in the human species. People literally inherit baldness. It is, in fact, the most common form of baldness. Humans also inherit things like anger and rage. So there are physical and emotional states that can be passed down from generation to generation.

I'm sure my question will be ignored. But I'm going to go for it anyway. If people can inherit baldness and rage, then why can't someone inherit being gay?? My point is that genetic predispositions have not been debunked. Not even close.
 






polymoog

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I'm convinced the right will never get tired of exaggerating the scope of this issue.

I suppose it's entertaining and a little bit informative though. This type of stuff is a real problem for some families, and we cannot ignore that. However, that shouldn't lead to rash decisions. I mean we just had discussions about censorship being bad, but here we are. Reading about how yall want to censor the LBGT.
there are states in the US where one cannot go for psychological treatment to cure homosexuality if they wished, but in every single state, one could go and get acceptance of it by a shrink. so who is censoring whom?
by the way, i will speak for the right when i say that no one here has said the lgbtqi community should be censored. find me a person on this forum who has stopped an lgbtqi person from speaking their mind or expressing their views or take back that statement.


If we remove all of the holocaust denial propaganda will holocaust denial go away? Probably not. That argument just doesn't hold much water. We cannot remove what is in the human unconscious. That's why I never argue in favor of censorship. I argue in favor of mitigation, which is exactly what the scientific community is doing.
if you remove the holocaust denial propaganda youll be left with holocaust revisionist fact. it will never be extinguished because theres truth in it. that tangent aside....
the scientific is not mitigating anything. society is twisting due to social pressure by the left. the real science hasnt changed (unless you are bill nye the science guy).


There are a billion different inherited traits in the human species. People literally inherit baldness. It is, in fact, the most common form of baldness. Humans also inherit things like anger and rage. So there are physical and emotional states that can be passed down from generation to generation.
thats a stretch, but ill go along for the ride...


I'm sure my question will be ignored. But I'm going to go for it anyway. If people can inherit baldness and rage, then why can't someone inherit being gay?? My point is that genetic predispositions have not been debunked. Not even close.
it can be inherited, but not all homosexuals are due to a brain miswiring/hormonal output gene regulation issue. many are born because of the hormone mimicking compounds in the environment. some become gay due to psychological trauma. weve gone over this already in this thread and in far, far deeper depth two years ago.
and whats the difference if its inheritable or not? predisposition to nearsightedness is a thing, but i dont see the mr. magoos of the world refusing to wear corrective lenses. and even if the mr. magoos refused to wear glasses, i wouldnt care, but when they try to say its normal to be nearsighted because they were born that way, im going to say something.

here is a question for you: can people be born trans-racist? trans-agist? how about trans-speciesist?


according to you, the following people were born feeling this way (so theyre normal):


trans race asian 2.jpg
1535933794176.png

1535933844751.png
 






Aero

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there are states in the US where one cannot go for psychological treatment to cure homosexuality if they wished, but in every single state, one could go and get acceptance of it by a shrink. so who is censoring whom?
by the way, i will speak for the right when i say that no one here has said the lgbtqi community should be censored. find me a person on this forum who has stopped an lgbtqi person from speaking their mind or expressing their views or take back that statement.
Lol what? What planet are you on right now? Every single day we hear about the "agenda". And how we need to silence all the pro-gay speech. Don't sit there and tell me VC members just do it for the arguments. It's all righteous indignation. People here literally believe eliminating all gay culture would be beneficial.

And those people are clearly lunatics.
if you remove the holocaust denial propaganda youll be left with holocaust revisionist fact. it will never be extinguished because theres truth in it. that tangent aside....
the scientific is not mitigating anything. society is twisting due to social pressure by the left. the real science hasnt changed (unless you are bill nye the science guy).
And we will still be left with denial like I said. You didn't refute my point in any way. So I don't get why you didn't just write up a new post with that stuff. It's just totally irrelevant to what I was saying.

thats a stretch, but ill go along for the ride...
What's a stretch? Like what part of my assertion is you even referring to?

it can be inherited, but not all homosexuals are due to a brain miswiring/hormonal output gene regulation issue. many are born because of the hormone mimicking compounds in the environment. some become gay due to psychological trauma. weve gone over this already in this thread and in far, far deeper depth two years ago.
and whats the difference if its inheritable or not? predisposition to nearsightedness is a thing, but i dont see the mr. magoos of the world refusing to wear corrective lenses. and even if the mr. magoos refused to wear glasses, i wouldnt care, but when they try to say its normal to be nearsighted because they were born that way, im going to say something.

here is a question for you: can people be born trans-racist? trans-agist? how about trans-speciesist?


according to you, the following people were born feeling this way (so theyre normal):





You might be overanalyzing. Or something, I don't really know. The point of my post was to refute all of the strict constructionists that we constantly hear it from. But honestly, I don't think they even know what the constructionist theory is. It's like I was saying before, their theory is strictly righteous indignation.

So props to you for at least being aware of inheratiblity.
 






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What do you mean it's not true?... everything I described is how the therapists actually go about helping the children who are already actually determined to be transgender. You could research it for yourself if you wanted. Professionals know the signs of a transgender child in comparison to an abused child, they are supposed to accurately evaluate the children. They take everything into account and of course they have thought of other possible scenarios that could cause a child to do certain things. But the therapy is centered around listening to the child and helping them with their needs, they don't force the child to do or think anything. If a child is having problems specifically with their gender, the therapist listens to them and allows them to express what the problems are and they help them deal with it.

And like I said, if they even get to the level of taking puberty blockers, they are already quite certain in their identity, they have passed through a lot of checkups and evaluations to even be recommended the blockers, and they are only taken if they are certainly necessary to help the child deal with what they are going through. Going through puberty is what can cause an actual transgender person to want to commit suicide because their body is going further into the direction they don't want and they feel like they are turning into a different person who is not themselves. Putting a pause on that can be quite helpful for them so they can figure themselves out and not be suicidal. If they decide that they want to stop taking puberty blockers, they can just stop and their puberty will resume.
Dr. @mecca

“We believe that the purpose of Science is to serve mankind. You, however, seem to regard Science as some kind of dodge or hustle. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable. You are a poor scientist Dr. @mecca.”
Ghostbusters
 






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They are correlated but they are simply not the same thing. They are two separate words with different definitions and connotations. Gender can be separate from biological sex.
I never said they were the same thing. Nice strawman there homie......
 






Bacsi

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I have strong anti-gay or anti-trans opinion, but at the same time my two close friends like brothers are gay. One is an activist. They both are among the best people I've ever known. Kind. Honest. Smart. Talented. Caring. Respectful. Professional. Etc. Wonderful souls . So as long as we might care, God doesn't care what your gender or orientation craze is. We're all psychos one way or another. God wants to see good people. That's all.
 






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mecca

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Mecca, I don't mean to be rude but why are you so trigged when people talk about gender?
I am not triggered. Having a different perspective doesn't mean I'm worked up by internet comments. All I did was describe what a transgender person is... and I tried to give you guys an understanding of what they go through to the best of my knowledge. I actually researched these topics because they are interesting to me, and when I see people spreading misinformation I want to provide a more accurate picture. Especially when the misinformation leads to hatred and discrimination of innocent people (which I find to be very wrong).
 






mecca

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She claims to be a Muslim but everything she says not only goes against Islam but logic itself.
Hating innocent groups of people is not Islamic. I am not required to hate transgender people in order to be a Muslim and I have no hatred or animosity towards them in the first place. They are people trying to live their lives like everyone else and I have absolutely no desire to contribute to their stigmatization and discrimination because it is wrong to do those things and it's very harmful.
 






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