Another Perspective On Lgbtq

TempestOfTempo

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It’s funny to see how people resort to personal attacks and condescending attitudes when they are unable to respond with a coherent argument of their own. *shrug*
Yeah, "Mecca" dont like facts lol
Heres some facts we can all explore together......
https://www.kansas.com/news/local/article222963705.html
Wichita has a metro area population of approx. 650.000 residents.
The library/drag queen event in the article was attended by approx. 200 people.
The majority of attendees had a positive event review while the vast, overwhelming majority of public opinion voiced was "outrage".
The library claimed the event wasn't "child-specific" but families were encouraged to attend.
The decision to implement the drag queen event was done without public input.

So what it appears is that the lgbt community & their supporters seek to bypass the overwhelming majority of public opinion en-route to public funds, facilities & etc. which they can then utilize to disseminate their agenda via-direct access to the public. At the public's expense. Even when the public clearly says "no".
 

TempestOfTempo

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Via fb on a site that is shedding light on the child abuse in this realm, there was a link to a store that is now selling “prosthetic” devices so children can feel that they appear to be the sex they identify with. This same store is affiliated with a s$x toy store, owned by the same company. I cannot imagine the sick minds who come up with it and the sick parents who play the sheep in this big game.
The only reason adults would provide such materials for youth is perversion and access.....
 

TempestOfTempo

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Firstly, I appreciate that you are sticking to the subject at hand and not just lazily throwing a tantrum aimied at Mecca. Kudos

Have you considered that you are searching for a simplified explanation that does not exist in reality? People and their identities are highly complex. You are focusing on gender and sexual expressions while ignoring all other aspects that constitute an individual ego personality.

If you feel like you are owed an explanation for every single aspect of another’s identity, here it is: regress to the point in time of the ego’s formation of the original belief that causes it to personally identify with certain expressions out of a immeasurable tapestry of possibilities... The reason we look at others for validation is because many are not even close to becoming fully aware of their own ego’s origins and how it has been shaped and formed (mostly in your early childhood by the way)

From my point of view, it seems the collective consensus of identities that form our society is that the inclusion and acceptance of those perceived as “outsiders” is somehow threatening, as if the very existence of our collective identity cannot stand on its own and instead relies upon the ostracization of anything “other” to form an important portion of its own identity.

It should not be about “rewriting society to cater” to anyone, what is important is progressing past the point of unnecessary ostracization in favor of being generally more inclusive and harmonious.
"If you feel like you are owed an explanation for every single aspect of another’s identity"
We dont. The lgbt agenda is determined to provide "answers" to questions we are not asking, initially anyways. If the issue was not forced on the public, we wouldn't even need this discussion in the first place, would we?
 

TempestOfTempo

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Do you have any other examples to add? Can you be more specific? Forgive me, I’m not quite grasping what you’re trying to say. Many things you said are somewhat vague. You are mentioning alternate solutions or treatments as if it has not already been attempted in the past. What exactly do you suggest as a solution that hasn’t already been shown to be ineffective in the past?

KEEP IN MIND that the only other option than telling children there is nothing wrong with it is to tell them it IS wrong or shameful. Is that your actual preference when it’s put into a greater perspective? Obviously that has not worked out too well at all in the past, and has been shown to be more harmful than beneficial, which is why attitudes are thankfully slowly evolving.

An identity does not have to be “normal” in order to be included and supported instead of scorned as being shameful. That is the only sense of “normalization” that applies here, since we are obviously discussing things that are never going to be “normal” in an overall sense because they simply do not apply to the majority of people.

Also, the competitive sports issue is one I happen to agree with, but it’s no different than steroids or performance enhancing drugs. It makes no logical sense whatsoever to entwine it completely with lgbt and basic human rights. There will be people who consider it discriminatory, but it doesn’t mean it actually is in reality, which is the only thing that matters.
But when I provided you examples of the problematic, illegal behavior I witnessed at a pride event (not even the actual event) you basically brushed it aside.

I understand you are advocating for respect and tolerance of others, thats an admirable quality. But the same respect is not shown to the majority of the population whom reject this sort of behavior in public and reject agendas of extreme sexuality being aimed at the youth.
 

Awoken2

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Some more stuff to totally ignore here, yeah let's just keep steering the thread to people's personal views on sexuality instead.

 
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I'm saying we should be researching into alternate solutions. Like I said earlier, what about people who can't transition for whatever reason, who won't be able to pass? I'd like to think we've advanced somewhat in terms of medicine and technology.

No, that is not the only other option. The other option is to be honest about the nature of the condition -it's a disorder. People should still be respectful of trans people because they are still human beings. I never implied otherwise.

Again, you act as though it's an either/or scenario. Something doesn't have to be normalised to be respected. That is not the sense of "normalization" being spoken of here. The movement is is trying to turn a disorder into an identity. The word may have negative connotations but I'm not saying that these people should be treated poorly at all. It is a disorder.

The difference between drugs and campaigning for trans inclusion in women's sports is that no one is championing the use of drugs as a move toward progressivism on a basis of LGBT and basic human rights. Because it is considered an invalidation of a transwoman's identity to inform her that despite how she identifies she still has the athletic capabilities and advantages of being born male. You can disagree with me, it's fine but I'm going to end this from my side as I don't want to derail this thread any further.
Wait, no one is claiming that gender dysphoria is not a disorder. Of course it’s a disorder. To call it otherwise downplays the distress and struggle involved, and is actually probably considered insulting by many who experience it.

I don’t believe it’s mentally healthy or constructive in any way whatsoever to tell people that their disorders are somehow shameful, no matter what disorder we’re talking about. It’s ok to be proud of who you are, and mental illness in general is unfairly stigmatized in our society.

Here’s some detailed info on the disorder itself:
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria


Now that we have established that, I ask again: what new alternative treatments do you suggest that have not already been shown to be failures in the past?
 
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mecca

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How on earth can the average 3 year old recognise their gender identity when they are not even acutely aware of their biological sex and everything that implies?
They are aware of their biological/physical sex and they can certainly begin to be aware of gender roles as well. That is the age where they also become fully aware of their gender identity. Being transgender doesn't have much to do with someone's relationship to gender roles... it's more so about their personal perception of themselves. A trans man feels like a man regardless of the gender roles expected of men. There are feminine trans men and masculine trans women, it simply depends on the person just like cisgender people.
How can a 3 year old feel uncomfortable with their anatomy?
Gender identity is fully formed around the age of 3. As a child becomes aware of their gender, they may have a gender incongruence that leads to gender dysphoria. A young female child with gender dysphoria might ask their parents when she's going to grow a penis. Many trans children initially assume that they are going to go through the puberty of their gender because they don't realize that they are actually the opposite sex. They may have dysphoria regarding their physical anatomy when it doesn't match how they see themselves.
. . . Okay? I still don't understand how gender is an "experience".
As a cisgender man, your experience of gender is that you feel like a man and you really don't have a problem with your gender at all. It is hard to explain what it would be like to be transgender because it is a completely foreign thing to cisgender people, I don't truly understand what it feels like. But trans people have a gender incongrueince which leads them to become acutely aware of their gender identity. Most people really only feel their gender when there is a problem. Trans people have a big problem because their self perception doesn't match their body or the way that other people see them. A cisgender person's body matches their self perception so they don't experience any problems with their gender... but if someone who feels like and identifies as a man suddenly wakes up one day as a woman, they would most likely start to experience gender dysphoria over this.
Again, studies on this subject are still very sparse and majorly theoretical.
No they're not. There have been various studies that focus on the transgender suicide rate and they find that transitioning is the main factor that drastically lowers suicide rates in trans people. They also find that when trans people are allowed to transition in an accepting and supportive environment, their suicide rate becomes equal to the cisgender population... and trans people's mental health and well being becomes equal to the general cisgender population.
I never said treatment was stagnating, I merely stated that we should surely be able to offer better options.
Transitioning is consistently the best option and it has been the only thing shown to effectively treat gender dysphoria. What do you mean by better option?... The best option would be the thing that alleviates gender dysphoria and transitioning is what does that. Treatment is continuously getting better over time as different forms of transitioning become available and people are able to have a personally tailored transition that is most suitable for them. There are various options for transitioning available.

Nothing else besides transitioning has worked to benefit transgender people... forcing trans people to live as their biological sex leads them to commit suicide and have terrible mental health/well being. Living as their biological sex or "accepting" it can't be an option for alleviating gender dysphoria because it does not alleviate gender dysphoria at all... it worsens it. What other options are there besides, living as their birth sex and living as their gender? All we can do is find ways to make living as their gender better because that is the only option that is beneficial to them in alleviating gender dysphoria and having a happy, healthy life. And people are finding ways to make it better.
Not every trans person will be able to transition. Not every transitioned trans person will be able to pass and assimilate. What about them?
If someone is unable to fully transition for various reasons, they usually have to make do with whatever form of transition they can actually do. If they are unable to have HRT, they would have to get by with only a social transition. They can still wear different clothing and change their name and pronouns without HRT. There are different aspects of transitioning and a social transition is something that most trans people are able to do. Some trans people do not transition for various reasons and that's fine too... it depends on what's best for each individual person in their specific situation.
You see, this is why I firmly believe that this is a mental illness.
Gender dysphoria is a medical disorder, not a mental illness... it's a disorder because it involves clinical levels of distress that impede daily functioning. Having a gender incongruence is a part of natural biological variation and some people are simply born that way and they are not mentally ill. Transgender people are of sound mind... the only way a person can be allowed to medically transition in the first place is if they demonstrate that they are mentally healthy and can make a rational decision for the correct reasons.... trans people can do these things. If there is any sign of mental instability, then they would not be approved for any medical transitioning.
Why reclassify GID as a sexuality disorder when the problem is not with their biological sex, but in their psychology?
Because the problem is not with their psychology. Having a gender incongruence doesn't mean you have a psychological problem... you can be perfectly mentally healthy and have a happy life, it's a part of normal biological variation. Trans people's endocrine systems run better when they are able to have HRT. Many trans people are depressed for years of their life until they start taking hormones... once they begin taking the right hormones that their brain needed, their depression goes away... that's a common experience. Trans people feel physically better when their brain and body are aligned... when they are running on different hormones. People's brains are what contain their entire identity and personality. Your entire core sense of self is within your brain. Would you rather someone perform a brain surgery on you to change your entire personality and sense of self or would you rather align the rest of your body to what your brain says it should be? It's far easier to change the body than the brain in the first place, and that's what actually works to alleviate gender dysphoria. Like I already said, people have already tried treating gender dysphoria through forcing trans people to live as their birth sex or mentally "accepting" it, but it simply doesn't work and it has the opposite of the desired effect, it's harmful and not helpful. You can't mentally condition someone to become a certain gender or to stop being a certain gender because people's gender identity is a part of their core identity and sense of self. It seems unethical to try to change someone in that way simply because they are different.
Toddlers, young children and even teenagers preferring the stereotypes of the opposite sex ultimately means nothing if there is no link between those gendered objects and biology.
Being transgender has nothing to do with stereotypes... As I said, there are many trans men who are stereotypically feminine and trans women who are stereotypically masculine in their interests but that doesn't stop them from being transgender or feeling like a man or a woman. Gender identity is an internal perception of yourself, it has nothing to do with gendered objects or roles in society. There are also plenty of cisgender people who do not align with stereotypical gender roles... they still feel cisgender. There are men who enjoy wearing makeup (which is stereotypically feminine), that doesn't make them women, they still feel like men and perceive themselves as male.
 
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You've never seen activists talk about how gender dysphoria is not a mental illness/disorder? That it's an identity and part of who they are? Or how the rhetoric around this issue tries to normalise it? And I'm not talking about removing stigma and ill treatment because obviously that's a good thing.

I don't recall ever claiming I had thought up any alternative treatments, you know, given the fact that I'm not a neurologist or psychiatrist. I literally just said that we've advanced since those failed treatments to the point where we should be able to come up with one that can be offered to transgender people who seek it. That is all. People are making leaps and bounds in the field of medicine. Many trans people have said that if there were a magic pill that could alleviate their dysphoria and cure them permanently, they would take it. I don't see anything wrong with hoping that becomes a possibility one day. I already said I didn't want to disrupt the main topic of the thread any further.
Obviously it’s both. mental disorders are included when we discuss identity because they are not exactly separable. This is not to say that someone’s disorder IS their identity, just that there is no shame in acknowledging it. Also, removing the stigma and normalizing are literally the same thing.

Maybe it’s not wise to freely offer your criticisms of transitioning if you’re not in a position to also offer something more constructive as a solution.
 
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Awoken2

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Having a gender incongruence doesn't mean you have a psychological problem... you can be perfectly mentally healthy and have a happy life, it's a part of NORMAL biological variation.
I think your definition of normal is what's open to question here.

Without deflecting answer me this one question.

Are you of the opinion that the huge rise in numbers of children now afflicted with this cruel condition is completely normal?

A yes or no will do.

A second question

Are you also of the opinion that all research concluding that environmental factors are in some way responsible for this upsurge in gender confusion is flawed and without foundation?

A yes or no will do.

A final question.

Are you suggesting that there is no agenda in play at all promoting and "normalizing" transgenderism through all forms of media and entertainment?

Just stick to yes or no.
 

Awoken2

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I think your definition of normal is what's open to question here.

Without deflecting answer me this one question.

Are you of the opinion that the huge rise in numbers of children now afflicted with this cruel condition is completely normal?

A yes or no will do.

A second question

Are you also of the opinion that all research concluding that environmental factors are in some way responsible for this upsurge in gender confusion is flawed and without foundation?

A yes or no will do.

A final question.

Are you suggesting that there is no agenda in play at all promoting and "normalizing" transgenderism through all forms of media and entertainment?

Just stick to yes or no.
@mecca

.......(checks watch)

......(checks calender)

Considering you have got more to say than anybody on this topic why have you not answered these very easy three questions? Is it because Yes or No answers don't allow you any wriggle room?
 

TempestOfTempo

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@mecca

.......(checks watch)

......(checks calender)

Considering you have got more to say than anybody on this topic why have you not answered these very easy three questions? Is it because Yes or No answers don't allow you any wriggle room?
Getting a yes or no out of her might take over a year, shes been studying that Betsy DeVoss school of debate lol
 

Awoken2

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A pretty insightful full on expose of the Freemasonic transgender agenda by the Christian church here.

Hey @mecca . I guess I'm not the only one that can see an agenda that's not there eh?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44661079

Watch this from 48 mins 50 secs onwards. It has some pretty revealing FACTS presented by non other than our beloved pedo loving BBC.

Victoria Derbyshire, 14/01/2019: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0by9fy5 via @bbciplayer

So that's 1.7% of this planets population are now showing different levels of intersex charachteristics.

Don't tell me, it's just because people are more accepting of people with two sets of sex organs nowadays.

Go on, give me a full intellectual analysis of the artistic inferences you see in this short video.

 
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Vixy

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Yeeeaah, lemme tell ya about Sweden: I met a guy who became my friend, we talked about life in general and our problems and shit you talk about when you're friends. I walked his dogs, listened to girlfriend problems and so on. A genuinly nice guy with some health issues -Or so I thought!

X told me one fine day sitting on my porch, about his gender shift. -Oh, didnt you know? I was born a woman.
-LOL
-No..Really.
-Oh come on!
-No, REALLY.
-WHAT?! *takes a looong close look at his..her..its..FUCK it! ..face.

I didnt believe he/she/it but told a friend and he asked the name and looks of the person and knew instantly who it was. He said this girl was known for having done this.

I could see NOTHING on his face, I saw he/she (god damn it!) had had some form of operation on his/her/it's boobs but thought maybe he had lost weight and got little moobs he corrected by surgery or something.

But nope, they were once woman boobs. :'(

Welcåm to swidän!

images.jpg
 
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Yeeeaah, lemme tell ya about Sweden: I met a guy who became my friend, we talked about life in general and our problems and shit you talk about when you're friends. I walked his dogs, listened to girlfriend problems and so on. A genuinly nice guy with some health issues -Or so I thought!

X told me one fine day sitting on my porch, about his gender shift. -Oh, didnt you know? I was born a woman.
-LOL
-No..Really.
-Oh come on!
-No, REALLY.
-WHAT?! *takes a looong close look at his..her..its..FUCK it! ..face.

I didnt believe he/she/it but told a friend and he asked the name and looks of the person and knew instantly who it was. He said this girl was known for having done this.

I could see NOTHING on his face, I saw he/she (god damn it!) had had some form of operation on his/her/it's boobs but thought maybe he had lost weight and got little moobs he corrected by surgery or something.

But nope, they were once woman boobs. :'(

Welcåm to swidän!

View attachment 18910
So, before you knew this, you thought this was a decent person? Why does their life choice cause you to dehumanize them by calling them "it"?
 

mecca

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Yeeeaah, lemme tell ya about Sweden: I met a guy who became my friend, we talked about life in general and our problems and shit you talk about when you're friends. I walked his dogs, listened to girlfriend problems and so on. A genuinly nice guy with some health issues -Or so I thought!

X told me one fine day sitting on my porch, about his gender shift. -Oh, didnt you know? I was born a woman.
-LOL
-No..Really.
-Oh come on!
-No, REALLY.
-WHAT?! *takes a looong close look at his..her..its..FUCK it! ..face.

I didnt believe he/she/it but told a friend and he asked the name and looks of the person and knew instantly who it was. He said this girl was known for having done this.

I could see NOTHING on his face, I saw he/she (god damn it!) had had some form of operation on his/her/it's boobs but thought maybe he had lost weight and got little moobs he corrected by surgery or something.

But nope, they were once woman boobs. :'(

Welcåm to swidän!

View attachment 18910
Being a transguy doesn't make him less of a person, you can't call him "it". If he was a genuinely nice person before he informed you of this personal aspect of his life, he's still a nice person now. He's the same friend you always knew... he didn't change, you changed your perception of him. He's not suddenly a bad person simply because he used to be a woman. If you were truly his friend and you valued your friendship then you wouldn't throw it away just because he's trans. It's kind of sad that he opened up to you about something so personal but you treated him badly over it.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Being a transguy doesn't make him less of a person, you can't call him "it". If he was a genuinely nice person before he informed you of this personal aspect of his life, he's still a nice person now. He's the same friend you always knew... he didn't change, you changed your perception of him. He's not suddenly a bad person simply because he used to be a woman. If you were truly his friend and you valued your friendship then you wouldn't throw it away just because he's trans. It's kind of sad that he opened up to you about something so personal but you treated him badly over it.
https://swedishsurveyor.wordpress.c...ate-sex-education-for-young-children/?wref=tp
https://swedishsurveyor.wordpress.c...-golden-shower-show-for-15-year-old-students/
 
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