Another Perspective On Lgbtq

Awoken2

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How many kids watched that video though. Social engineering only works if people let it and we can scream AGENDA all we want these so called stars have no power if we don't buy their stuff.
Do you know what determines who the world's biggest stars are?..... It's the people that sell the most stuff....go figure.

.....but not to kids though eh?..... just adults....yea.....right. (cofusedemojihere)
 

Awoken2

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The original post for context, before Mecca latched on and brought homosexuality into the mix.


Gender variance not a choice
By Eileen Dannemann | Jul 13, 2017

To the editor:

Those who think the decision to gender change is “simply psychological” are misinformed.

Transgender and LGBTIQ community (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex and Questioning) posture that the gender spectrum is simply a progressive shift in the evolution of humanity or simply a different sexual orientation than some people aren’t used to.

They are understandably in defense of their very existence.

As early as the 1940s, Dr. Peter Montague of Rachel’s Hazardous Waste Newsletter has been reporting on endocrine disruptors, such as DDT, Atrazine, Alachlor, dioxins, for example. He reported in 1940, concomitant with the introduction of toxic agriculture, that male sperm count had already decreased by 50 percent.

Has anyone wondered why decades of couples are finding it difficult, if not impossible to conceive? Why fertility clinics are ubiquitous? Why traditional conception is giving way to test tube babies? And why gender confounding is rising and soaring off the charts?
But Mecca says....

"You can't be influenced into having gender dysphoria... either you have it or you don't. No one can be made to be transgender, it's simply how someone naturally is and it's out of ANYONES CONTROL".


....think you're missing the point...or evading it.
 
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.....what like parents/Goverments?[/QUOTE]

Yeah Parents/Relatives which is where it’s most common by far and clergy, teachers, coaches, cops etc, and the tens of thousands of businessmen who travel to third world countries every day for child exploitation.[/USER][/QUOTE]
 

mecca

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But wasn't the topic under discussion. We were specifically discussing children, not adults.
I was discussing all trans people who go to clinics and specialists... which is primarily teens and adults but also includes children. What I said pretty much applies to all age groups.
more and more children are being referred to gender clinics. You can't tell me that children as young as 3, 4 and 5 have a comprehension of increased social acceptance for gender issues.
More people in general are going to clinics because awareness, acceptance, and availability is increasing. The children may or may not have an increased awareness but their parents do... and the parents are the ones who are bringing their young children to specialists for various reasons. It's easier to catch the signs in your child at an early age when you are more aware of what those signs could mean. Maybe some parents are overreacting as well... I don't know the specifics of each person's situation.
The problem is that it's becoming harder to identify actual cases against trend-followers. If you don't think claiming to be trans is a trend especially amongst younger adults and teens then you haven't spent much time on social media.
It's not really a trend in the first place and it would be extremely easy to distinguish between trend followers and real trans people because the trend followers would have no real interest in transitioning. Even if people are faking being trans on social media, they would not be the people going to clinics because they're not actually trans and they have no need to talk to someone about their gender. They definitely wouldn't be interested in going all the way with transitioning. But I don't think there are very many fakers in the first place, I'm sure there are some (there are fakers/pretenders in every group of people), but it's not a widespread thing. It's definitely not a "trendy" thing to be transgender, they still face an extreme amount of discrimination and stigmatization in society. People can be murdered simply for being trans... trans youth are kicked out of their homes by their families/parents...
Yes, it does.
No not really. No one can be forced or influenced into becoming transgender. People can only determine if a certain label fits who they are and the way that they feel or not. You can't make someone have a certain gender... it something that someone determines within themselves based upon how they naturally feel.
Like? The only biological component to gender identity that I'm aware of is biological sex.
One factor that influences gender as well as sex is prenatal hormones in the womb, sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place at a different time than hormonal differentiation of the brain and sometimes there can be a misalignment regarding those things. There is natural biological variation that leads to people ending up transgender. Various studies have shown that trans people's brains more closely resemble the brains of their gender and not their sex. There have also been twin studies that showed that identical twins with the same exact genetics are far more likely to both be trans compared to non-identical twins with different genetics.
But I thought sex was biological and gender was a social construct?
Gender roles are social... gender identity/labels is both biological and social. There is a distinction between those things because they are not the same.
I think more research should be put into discovering other forms of treatment besides transition
People have already tried different forms of treatment throughout history... they never worked, the only thing that has worked is transitioning. People have long since tried to force trans people to live as their biological sex and teach them how to live that way, but those kinds of things lead transgender people to commit suicide and certainly do not help them... it's futile. Over time people are realizing that the only thing that has ever worked to benefit trans people is helping them to live as the gender they say they are.
But if people don't have to have dysphoria (even in rare cases) to identify as trans, then it implies a choice
Not really... even if someone's mind naturally aligns with a certain gender different from their physical sex, they don't necessarily need to feel dysphoria (or clinical levels of dysphoria) over that incongruence... a small portion of people may not experience it. Being trans certainly isn't a choice. I don't think anyone enjoys needing to transition or being discriminated against.
That being said, I'm not a big enough asshole to "invalidate" someone just because they identify as a jar of mayonnaise. The problem is that most people don't keep relativity in mind and try to assert their subjective experiences as a baseline for an objective reality.
Isn't that what you're doing when you take your experience as a cisgender person from a culture that doesn't include other genders and—despite non-binary people's existence—you claim "there are only two genders"? Wouldn't making that claim be overlooking the relativity regarding gender in different cultures/individual experiences and asserting your own subjective experience as more true above other people's experiences and cultures? The fact that you would equate being nonbinary to identifying as a jar of mayonnaise already shows how you are invalidating their existence as valid, real people. But if you don't believe they can exist, I guess I can't convince you.
 
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Awoken2

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I was discussing all trans people who go to clinics and specialists... which is primarily teens and adults but also includes children. What I said pretty much applies to all age groups.

More people in general are going to clinics because awareness, acceptance, and availability is increasing. The children may or may not have an increased awareness but their parents do... and the parents are the ones who are bringing their young children to specialists for various reasons. It's easier to catch the signs in your child at an early age when you are more aware of what those signs could mean. Maybe some parents are overreacting as well... I don't know the specifics of each person's situation.

It's not really a trend in the first place and it would be extremely easy to distinguish between trend followers and real trans people because the trend followers would have no real interest in transitioning. Even if people are faking being trans on social media, they would not be the people going to clinics because they're not actually trans and they have no need to talk to someone about their gender. They definitely wouldn't be interested in going all the way with transitioning. But I don't think there are very many fakers in the first place, I'm sure there are some (there are fakers/pretenders in every group of people), but it's not a widespread thing. It's definitely not a "trendy" thing to be transgender, they still face an extreme amount of discrimination and stigmatization in society. People can be murdered simply for being trans... trans youth are kicked out of their homes by their families/parents...

No not really. No one can be forced or influenced into becoming transgender. People can only determine if a certain label fits who they are and the way that they feel or not. You can't make someone have a certain gender... it something that someone determines within themselves based upon how they naturally feel.

One factor that influences gender as well as sex is prenatal hormones in the womb, sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place at a different time than hormonal differentiation of the brain and sometimes there can be a misalignment regarding those things. There is natural biological variation that leads to people ending up transgender. Various studies have shown that trans people's brains more closely resemble the brains of their gender and not their sex. There have also been twin studies that showed that identical twins with the same exact genetics are far more likely to both be trans compared to non-identical twins with different genetics.

Gender roles are social... gender identity/labels is both biological and social. There is a distinction between those things because they are not the same.

People have already tried different forms of treatment throughout history... they never worked, the only thing that has worked is transitioning. People have long since tried to force trans people to live as their biological sex and teach them how to live that way, but those kinds of things lead transgender people to commit suicide and certainly do not help them... it's futile. Over time people are realizing that the only thing that has ever worked to benefit trans people is helping them to live as the gender they say they are.

Not really... even if someone's mind naturally aligns with a certain gender different from their physical sex, they don't necessarily need to feel dysphoria (or clinical levels of dysphoria) over that incongruence... a small portion of people may not experience it. Being trans certainly isn't a choice. I don't think anyone enjoys needing to transition or being discriminated against.

Isn't that what you're doing when you take your experience as a cisgender person from a culture that doesn't include other genders and—despite non-binary people's existence—you claim "there are only two genders"? Wouldn't making that claim be overlooking the relativity regarding gender in different cultures/individual experiences and asserting your own subjective experience as more true above other people's experiences and cultures? The fact that you would equate being nonbinary to identifying as a jar of mayonnaise already shows how you are invalidating their existence as valid, real people. But if you don't believe they can exist, I guess I can't convince you.
I can't help but see the irony in you frequenting a thread titled Another Perspective on LGBTQ with your ohhh so mainstream views on LGBTQ for all to see.

You are really exposing yourself there aren't you?
 

irrationalNinja

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I was discussing all trans people who go to clinics and specialists... which is primarily teens and adults but also includes children. What I said pretty much applies to all age groups.

More people in general are going to clinics because awareness, acceptance, and availability is increasing. The children may or may not have an increased awareness but their parents do... and the parents are the ones who are bringing their young children to specialists for various reasons. It's easier to catch the signs in your child at an early age when you are more aware of what those signs could mean. Maybe some parents are overreacting as well... I don't know the specifics of each person's situation.

It's not really a trend in the first place and it would be extremely easy to distinguish between trend followers and real trans people because the trend followers would have no real interest in transitioning. Even if people are faking being trans on social media, they would not be the people going to clinics because they're not actually trans and they have no need to talk to someone about their gender. They definitely wouldn't be interested in going all the way with transitioning. But I don't think there are very many fakers in the first place, I'm sure there are some (there are fakers/pretenders in every group of people), but it's not a widespread thing. It's definitely not a "trendy" thing to be transgender, they still face an extreme amount of discrimination and stigmatization in society. People can be murdered simply for being trans... trans youth are kicked out of their homes by their families/parents...

No not really. No one can be forced or influenced into becoming transgender. People can only determine if a certain label fits who they are and the way that they feel or not. You can't make someone have a certain gender... it something that someone determines within themselves based upon how they naturally feel.

One factor that influences gender as well as sex is prenatal hormones in the womb, sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place at a different time than hormonal differentiation of the brain and sometimes there can be a misalignment regarding those things. There is natural biological variation that leads to people ending up transgender. Various studies have shown that trans people's brains more closely resemble the brains of their gender and not their sex. There have also been twin studies that showed that identical twins with the same exact genetics are far more likely to both be trans compared to non-identical twins with different genetics.

Gender roles are social... gender identity/labels is both biological and social. There is a distinction between those things because they are not the same.

People have already tried different forms of treatment throughout history... they never worked, the only thing that has worked is transitioning. People have long since tried to force trans people to live as their biological sex and teach them how to live that way, but those kinds of things lead transgender people to commit suicide and certainly do not help them... it's futile. Over time people are realizing that the only thing that has ever worked to benefit trans people is helping them to live as the gender they say they are.

Not really... even if someone's mind naturally aligns with a certain gender different from their physical sex, they don't necessarily need to feel dysphoria (or clinical levels of dysphoria) over that incongruence... a small portion of people may not experience it. Being trans certainly isn't a choice. I don't think anyone enjoys needing to transition or being discriminated against.

Isn't that what you're doing when you take your experience as a cisgender person from a culture that doesn't include other genders and—despite non-binary people's existence—you claim "there are only two genders"? Wouldn't making that claim be overlooking the relativity regarding gender in different cultures/individual experiences and asserting your own subjective experience as more true above other people's experiences and cultures? The fact that you would equate being nonbinary to identifying as a jar of mayonnaise already shows how you are invalidating their existence as valid, real people. But if you don't believe they can exist, I guess I can't convince you.
Radical. Leftist. Taradiddle.
 

mecca

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I can't help but see the irony in you frequenting a thread titled Another Perspective on LGBTQ with your ohhh so mainstream views on LGBTQ for all to see.

You are really exposing yourself there aren't you?
If compassion, empathy, and understanding were mainstream, then discrimination and stigmatization wouldn't be commonplace.
 

Awoken2

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You won't have the attention span to watch this in full before feeling the need to go running off to another thread to try muddy the waters there but I strongly suggest you absorb the very first 15 minutes.

 

Awoken2

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You won't have the attention span to watch this in full before feeling the need to go running off to another thread to try muddy the waters there but I strongly suggest you absorb the very first 15 minutes.

You tried to have me off in my own thread on predictive programming that Tools forty six and two had "NOTHING TO DO WITH GENDER".

Then puzzle me this.... why would Tool or Tool's record label allow their property to be played over a "random" video of clips from the film Pan's Labyrinth? Why has the poster not breached any copyright regs that so highly bound anybody else who tries to put a video over licenced music.


You did see how Pan's Labyrinth was referenced in that video didn't you?
 

TempestOfTempo

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Do you know what determines who the world's biggest stars are?..... It's the people that sell the most stuff....go figure.

.....but not to kids though eh?..... just adults....yea.....right. (cofusedemojihere)
A very important point. The shift started in the 80s and as the youth had access to greater amounts of disposable income, the marketing to them increased to the point that parents are no longer marketed to (or rarely).... its the children who are enticed into the commercial world now. Tptb get a two-fer..... they get access to all of the $ those impressionable kids spend on their products, and most importantly, they get access to the minds and attention of the youth. Thats where much of the lbgt-agenda now focuses on, indoctrinating the youth via the access they have via media and schools.
 
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TempestOfTempo

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Okay, you might have been but the context was specifically that of transgender children. Again, just because the majority of people that visit these clinics are adults, it takes nothing away from the fact that toddlers are taken there too. This whole tangent started because of a discussion around the increasing number of children being taken to gender therapists.


This last part I agree with. There is no way to know the details in each case, but I still find it strange how parents can perceive that their child has gender identity issues at 3. It makes no sense to me.


By trend followers I specifically am referring to young adults/teenagers who may still be under the minimum age for which they can receive surgeries. There is no way you could tell whether each person was making a real effort to transition or not as many trans people struggle with passing, especially if they are older. It is trendy. Being non-binary or gender queer or a demi-girl/boy is very much trendy. This is another reason why I dislike the LGBT community. The original LGB movement was meant to be a collective of people with alternative sexual orientations. Gender has nothing to do with sexuality. And yet transgenderism was easily able to hitch a ride on its coattails. And now, the term "trans" has become an umbrella for anyone who feels they can use it regardless of whether they have GID or not, or even whether they transition or not. If anything, this a hindrance to real trans people. I would not say that trans people face an "extreme" amount of discrimination and stigmatisation in the West. Other countries, most definitely. But depending on where they're located, western society has pretty much accepted and mainstreamed the issue.


But that makes no sense. Either gender dysphoria is a requisite for transgenderism, in which case it would be an inherent trait that they have no control over, or gender is fluid and selected depending on feelings, making it a choice and something within their control. I mean, people can literally "identify" as gender fluid or flux or something like that.


The preposed misalignment between sexual differentiation of the brain and body as a cause of GID remains a tenuous theory that has still not proven to be infallibly true. There is room for a genetic component but it has not been confirmed and remains a murky area of study. There are also studies that claim that "gendered" brains do not exist. The main twin study used a sample size of 23 monozygotic female and male twins, nine (39.1%) of which were concordant for GID. Hardly a solid case. There are indications that it is statistically more likely than average for twins to be transgender but it is far from guaranteed.This is one of many reasons that doctors have not nailed down the specific reasons for being transgender. It is not consistently found in twins so it can’t just be genetic.


Gender roles originated from a basis in biological norms. What is it that influences someone's gender identity? Their being able to relate to or desire to reject certain gender roles? Attachment to stereotypical interests belonging to the opposite sex? If gender roles are social, then how does that work? How does a man who relates to the social, fluctuating standards of being a woman determine that he should have a vagina and that his anatomy is incorrect?


But many trans people still commit suicide post transition. I'm not suggesting anyone be forced into living their lives a certain way. I'm saying that we've progressed in terms of technology and medicine. Researchers have access to far greater resources than they had in the past. It's not entirely insane to believe another alternative treatment that could significantly lower the suicide rate could be possible.


I dunno, you seemed pretty insistent earlier that being trans is completely out their control and that the root of transgenderism was gender dysphoria.


Nah, not really. You must have misread what I wrote because I never once claimed there were only two genders as though it were objective truth. I only ever asserted that that was my subjective truth. That was the whole point of this comment. Maybe quote the full thing next time. I literally said "But just like I can't prove that there isn't an infinite number of genders, they can't prove there is. Their identities are relative to their own realities, not mine and I personally don't believe in more than two genders." I didn't equate being non-binary to identifying as a jar of mayonnaise lol, I meant to point out that people can literally claim to be able to identify as anything unironically, and by your own logic no one can tell them they are incorrect. There are people in other countries identifying as different species or races, even ages. They're fringe cases, sure, but the point still remains.
You are now getting a taste my friend, and I salute your patience and effort. But as you can see, between the ever changing rationales and excuses and the outright dishonesty this is a tough crowd lol

For example, the very first sentence regarding the study and discussion being about children.... how many times have you explained this to "Mecca"? What you posted is clear and correct but "Mecca" keeps addressing the contention like there is something to argue about. They were incorrect and off topic, but instead of just admitting they are incorrect or just dropping it, here they are still trying to "debate"...... I dont think at this point it matters with posters like "Mecca". They are not interested in honest dialog, and are clearly in support of agenda's which are obvious and admitted......
 

mecca

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This last part I agree with. There is no way to know the details in each case, but I still find it strange how parents can perceive that their child has gender identity issues at 3. It makes no sense to me.
People's core gender identity is fully formed/solidified around the age of 3 and that's when children become fully aware of it so it's definitely possible. There are children who have a clear understanding of their gender at a young age and if they are trans, they may experience dysphoria to a significant extent that might warrant talking to a specialist. It's not a bad or a harmful thing to go to a specialist... it can be quite helpful and beneficial to talk to a professional.
I mean, people can literally "identify" as gender fluid or flux or something like that.
Gender fluid is a label... it's a word to describe a specific experience. All people identify as a certain gender label because that label describes their experience, but they can't make the conscious choice to experience their gender in that way. A cisgender male would identify and perceive himself as a man because he feels like a man... but he did not make the conscious choice to feel like a man, that's just how he is and how he sees himself. A genderfluid person would be the same way... they don't make the choice to feel fluid in their perception of gender... that's just naturally how their brain works and how they see themselves. They would identify as gender fluid because they feel that way, not because they made the choice to be that way. People can choose to adopt a label but they can't force themselves to naturally align with what the label means.

You can look at the definition of genderfluid and know immediately that it doesn't describe you, because that's not how you experience your gender... but another person could look at the definition and say "wow, I've felt like this my whole life" if their experience aligns with the idea of gender fluid, then they might adopt the label because it accurately describes their feelings and perception of themselves.
But many trans people still commit suicide post transition.
The only thing that consistently lowers the the transgender suicide rate to an equal level with the cisgender suicide rate is transitioning. Transitioning is what prevents suicides in transgender people... if they are allowed to be themselves is an accepting environment, they are no more likely to commit suicide than anyone else. It's consistently the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, all the other treatments people tried simply don't help transgender people to live better lives. And people are continually improving on the different types and options for transitioning so individuals can have a personally tailored treatment that is right for then, treatment is not stagnating it's becoming more and more effective over time in helping transgender people.
I dunno, you seemed pretty insistent earlier that being trans is completely out their control and that the root of transgenderism was gender dysphoria.
The root of being transgender is the existence of a gender incongruence which typically leads to gender dysphoria in the vast majority of people. There may be some exceptions regarding dysphoria (as there are exceptions to pretty much everything) but that doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a choice or not because regardless of if you feel dysphoric, you still didn't choose to have a gender incongruence. It is out of their control... you can't force yourself to have a different gender... it's just who you are.
 
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Awoken2

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People's core gender identity is fully formed/solidified around the age of 3 and that's when children become fully aware of it so it's definitely possible. There are children who have a clear understanding of their gender at a young age and if they are trans, they may experience dysphoria to a significant extent that might warrant talking to a specialist. It's not a bad or a harmful thing to go to a specialist... it can be quite helpful and beneficial to talk to a professional.

Gender fluid is a label... it's a word to describe a specific experience. All people identify as a certain gender label because that label describes their experience, but they can't make the conscious choice to experience their gender in that way. A cisgender male would identify and perceive himself as a man because he feels like a man... but he did not make the conscious choice to feel like a man, that's just how he is and how he sees himself. A genderfluid person would be the same way... they don't make the choice to feel fluid in their perception of gender... that's just naturally how their brain works and how they see themselves. They would identify as gender fluid because they feel that way, not because they made the choice to be that way. People can choose to adopt a label but they can't force themselves to naturally align with what the label means.

You can look at the definition of genderfluid and know immediately that it doesn't describe you, because that's not how you experience your gender... but another person could look at the definition and say "wow, I've felt like this my whole life" if their experience aligns with the idea of gender fluid, then they might adopt the label because it accurately describes their feelings and perception of themselves.

The only thing that consistently lowers the the transgender suicide rate to an equal level with the cisgender suicide rate is transitioning. Transitioning is what prevents suicides in transgender people... if they are allowed to be themselves is an accepting environment, they are no more likely to commit suicide than anyone else. It's consistently the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, all the other treatments people tried simply don't help transgender people to live better lives. And people are continually improving on the different types and options for transitioning so individuals can have a personally tailored treatment that is right for then, treatment is not stagnating it's becoming more and more effective over time in helping transgender people.

The root of being transgender is the existence of a gender incongruence which typically leads to gender dysphoria in the vast majority of people. There may be some exceptions regarding dysphoria (as there are exceptions to pretty much everything) but that doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a choice or not because regardless of if you feel dysphoric, you still didn't choose to have a gender incongruence. It is out of their control... you can't force yourself to have a different gender... it's just who you are.
You have nothing original to say on this topic, it's the same content over and over again with you.

Here are some facts about possible ENVIRONMENTAL factors which may contributing to the HUGE increase in young people who now are mysteriously suffering gender identity issues.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/221205.php


As a reward for actually reading some FACTS about the topic I've included a Swedish porn film for you to enjoy for your continued diligence on this very important matter.

 
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It’s funny to see how people resort to personal attacks and condescending attitudes when they are unable to respond with a coherent argument of their own. *shrug*
 
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And what constitutes their "core gender identity"? How is it calibrated? You didn't answer my earlier question: what is it that could possibly make an individual believe that they are born in the wrong body? Is it that they gravitate more toward expressions associated with the opposite sex? If so how does that affect genital dysphoria? How can a 3 year old possibly even be aware of traditional gender norms? It can't be the social constructs of gender then. How can a 3 year old feel uncomfortable with their anatomy? They aren't even anywhere near puberty, the general age around which proper awareness forms about the body. Before that, not so much. How on earth can the average 3 year old recognise their gender identity when they are not even acutely aware of their biological sex and everything that implies?


It's all good and well people decide to express how they "feel" within a certain gender identity but when they try to rewrite all of society to cater to those experiences then it's a bit of a problem. To this day I have no idea what it "feels" like to be a man or a woman. How is that an experience? Because contrary to my understanding of it, it goes beyond merely the state of being male or female apparently. If it's interests and predilections, well the same people sharing your sentiments tend to argue that those things are completely arbitrary.


. . . Okay? I still don't understand how gender is an "experience".


Firstly, there is a nuance around the studies you are citing that you aren't bringing up. If you really look into them, a constant factor in areas where the post-transition trans population experienced a drop in the suicide rate is access to efficient mental health care. This was a key facilitator along with the minor social factors which played a more distal effect on suicide rates and general physopathology. Transitioning alone is not guaranteed to be as effective without other factors. Again, studies on this subject are still very sparse and majorly theoretical. And do you have a link where I could see if the trans suicide rate really evens out with the general population's post transition? I never said treatment was stagnating, I merely stated that we should surely be able to offer better options. Not every trans person will be able to transition. Not every transitioned trans person will be able to pass and assimilate. What about them? If transitioning is removed as an option for certain transgendered individuals, should there not be an alternative? What about in countries where being transgendered is illegal or even punishable?Surely other treatment should be made available?


You see, this is why I firmly believe that this is a mental illness. I am not saying this with any malice intended. If one has to package together the general consensus on definitions of gender, regardless of the scope of opinions, it appears to be a largely sociological concept. It seems tied to traditional expressions of gender that the same movement tries to move further and further away from biological sex. And ironically, uncoupling the two actually bolsters the idea that perhaps it is a mental illness. Toddlers, young children and even teenagers preferring the stereotypes of the opposite sex ultimately means nothing if there is no link between those gendered objects and biology.

Body dysphoria is interesting because there is no quantifiable reason why a healthily-functioning brain should be distressed over a healthily-functioning body. In the overwhelming majority of cases, sex is immutable (biological aberrations are outliers and even their existence does not negate the sex binary) -every cell is coded either XX or XY, there is a perfectly-functioning reproductive system and genitals, a male or female skeleton along with all the other distinctive anatomical differentiations between the sexes. How does someone with a fully male body, possess the crippling desire to have female sexual characteristics and vice versa? I'm not denying their existence, I know there are people who genuinely feel like that. I acknowledge that. But why treat it as anything other than what it seems to be? Why reclassify GID as a sexuality disorder when the problem is not with their biological sex, but in their psychology? If your assertation is true that trans people's brains resemble the brains of the opposite gender, then what does that imply? A bulimic's brain was discovered to react differently to food than a non-bulimic. Yet, just because they perceive themselves as overweight when that is not the reality, we know that the problem exists in the brain and not the body. Why can't the same acknowledgment be given to transgenderism? You might make the argument that bulimia is physically harmful to the body whereas transition is not but I would argue that bulimia is a merely faster, more apparent deterioration. What long-term effects of consistently pumping hormones into your body (that run contrary to what it was wired to produce in those amounts) exist? People literally chop off healthy body parts to appease their dysphoria. They need to set aside samples of egg/sperm if they want kids because the transition and potential SRS literally sterilises them. The only standard by which this issue is weighed cannot just be "but it makes them happier".
Firstly, I appreciate that you are sticking to the subject at hand and not just lazily throwing a tantrum aimied at Mecca. Kudos

Have you considered that you are searching for a simplified explanation that does not exist in reality? People and their identities are highly complex. You are focusing on gender and sexual expressions while ignoring all other aspects that constitute an individual ego personality.

If you feel like you are owed an explanation for every single aspect of another’s identity, here it is: regress to the point in time of the ego’s formation of the original belief that causes it to personally identify with certain expressions out of a immeasurable tapestry of possibilities... The reason we look at others for validation is because many are not even close to becoming fully aware of their own ego’s origins and how it has been shaped and formed (mostly in your early childhood by the way)

From my point of view, it seems the collective consensus of identities that form our society is that the inclusion and acceptance of those perceived as “outsiders” is somehow threatening, as if the very existence of our collective identity cannot stand on its own and instead relies upon the ostracization of anything “other” to form an important portion of its own identity.

It should not be about “rewriting society to cater” to anyone, what is important is progressing past the point of unnecessary ostracization in favor of being generally more inclusive and harmonious.
 

Awoken2

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Firstly, I appreciate that you are sticking to the subject at hand and not just lazily throwing a tantrum aimied at Mecca. Kudos

Have you considered that you are searching for a simplified explanation that does not exist in reality? People and their identities are highly complex. You are focusing on gender and sexual expressions while ignoring all other aspects that constitute an individual ego personality.

If you feel like you are owed an explanation for every single aspect of another’s identity, here it is: regress to the point in time of the ego’s formation of the original belief that causes it to personally identify with certain expressions out of a immeasurable tapestry of possibilities... The reason we look at others for validation is because many are not even close to becoming fully aware of their own ego’s origins and how it has been shaped and formed (mostly in your early childhood by the way)

From my point of view, it seems the collective consensus of identities that form our society is that the inclusion and acceptance of those perceived as “outsiders” is somehow threatening, as if the very existence of our collective identity cannot stand on its own and instead relies upon the ostracization of anything “other” to form an important portion of its own identity.

It should not be about “rewriting society to cater” to anyone, what is important is progressing past the point of unnecessary ostracization in favor of being generally more inclusive and harmonious.
....so, reading between the lines here.....sometimes, you like wearing a dress.

....just kidding....me and one of my lazy tantrums...lol
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
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....so, reading between the lines here.....sometimes, you like wearing a dress.

....just kidding....me and one of my lazy tantrums...lol
Whatever works for you. If your kink is imagining that I wear women’s clothing, I won’t ruin your fantasy or shame you for it. :)
 
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I'm genuinely not trying to argue for the sake of it, despite how it may come across I don't get off on debating people.

The problem for me is that the issue of gender and sexual expression permeates many avenues of society at this point. People become incredibly hostile when it comes to identity politics in personal social spaces while expanding that to larger sectors. Not to mention that the rhetoric surrounding these issues is incredibly inconsistent and contradictory. I don't feel like I am owed an explanation for people's identities -I've said many times it isn't my business. I don't believe in ostracization of "others" for merely being different and breaking the norm. I only take issue when certain people try to dispose of the norm altogether. I realise that a lot of people don't believe in the slippery slope. But there are certain classes of "identity" that should be rightfully stigmatised. I'm not referring to transgender people by the way. In their case, I just strongly believe that better treatment needs to be researched, and that declassifying it as a mental illness is a mistake. I think that sufferers of GID should be given the most efficient mental healthcare and support network possible. I do not think that their condition is something that should be praised or pushed on children (awareness should be raised and children who display real symptoms of GID should obviously seek professional help). What I refer to when I speak about rewriting society is the incessant attempts to distort reality (that does still exist outside of our own personal identities). People should be allowed to identify however they want to. But there needs to be some sort of limit to what gets normalised by the greater society or freedoms begin to cannibalise one another. For example, advocating for transwomen to participate in women's sports infringes on the rights of the biological women who more often than not simply cannot compete with biological men. Or the cotton ceiling debacle.
Do you have any other examples to add? Can you be more specific? Forgive me, I’m not quite grasping what you’re trying to say. Many things you said are somewhat vague. You are mentioning alternate solutions or treatments as if it has not already been attempted in the past. What exactly do you suggest as a solution that hasn’t already been shown to be ineffective in the past?

KEEP IN MIND that the only other option than telling children there is nothing wrong with it is to tell them it IS wrong or shameful. Is that your actual preference when it’s put into a greater perspective? Obviously that has not worked out too well at all in the past, and has been shown to be more harmful than beneficial, which is why attitudes are thankfully slowly evolving.

An identity does not have to be “normal” in order to be included and supported instead of scorned as being shameful. That is the only sense of “normalization” that applies here, since we are obviously discussing things that are never going to be “normal” in an overall sense because they simply do not apply to the majority of people.

Also, the competitive sports issue is one I happen to agree with, but it’s no different than steroids or performance enhancing drugs. It makes no logical sense whatsoever to entwine it completely with lgbt and basic human rights. There will be people who consider it discriminatory, but it doesn’t mean it actually is in reality, which is the only thing that matters.
 
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