Another Perspective On Lgbtq

Aero

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Lol, this spot is like the land of the soft triggers. In fact, I would argue that is the only thing going for VC. I think that we got a cool little community here. But I have to recognize that few of us are going to be breaking the barriers and shattering Earth.

People who know me know I'm not with that gay stuff. I just like the underdogs. I'm a typical rebel without a cause. And I firmly believe everyone has essential human rights. We have a God-given right to freedom. Why get in the way of that? It's a losing battle is what I'm saying. Freedom always wins in the end.
 






Kung Fu

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Hating innocent groups of people is not Islamic. I am not required to hate transgender people in order to be a Muslim and I have no hatred or animosity towards them in the first place. They are people trying to live their lives like everyone else and I have absolutely no desire to contribute to their stigmatization and discrimination because it is wrong to do those things and it's very harmful.
Who said anything about hate? As a Muslim just because I civilly disagree with something doesn't mean I hate it. Stop twisting your words and just face the music. Stop twisting words and copping out here and just face the music.
 






Haich

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I am not triggered. Having a different perspective doesn't mean I'm worked up by internet comments. All I did was describe what a transgender person is... and I tried to give you guys an understanding of what they go through to the best of my knowledge. I actually researched these topics because they are interesting to me, and when I see people spreading misinformation I want to provide a more accurate picture. Especially when the misinformation leads to hatred and discrimination of innocent people (which I find to be very wrong).
Ok. Just asking because you always write pages about gender, I can see you're clearly passionate about it.

I don't think it's misinformation, many people just don't buy it tbh.
 






mecca

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You guys are getting mad at me and questioning my religion simply because I said things that were in favor of lgbt/trans people and their rights.
 






Haich

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You guys are getting mad at me and questioning my religion simply because I said things that were in favor of lgbt/trans people and their rights.
I seriously hope you aren't referring to me.
 






Haich

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Well Mecca, I didn't mean to upset you and wasn't questioning your beliefs at all. I was just asking why you're always going on about gender, clearly it is close to your heart and just wanted to know why.

I'll leave it there.
 






mecca

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I don't think it's misinformation, many people just don't buy it tbh.
It is misinformation... people here keep saying things like gender dysphoria isn't real and that transgender people are just faking everything that they experience... but that is contradictory to observed scientific facts, gender dysphoria is a very real diagnosis and it is something that transgender people experience. Saying that transgender people don't exist is misinformation. And it's pretty obvious that transgender people are not faking it... no one would willingly put themselves through discrimination and ridicule when they don't have to.
 






Haich

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It is misinformation... people here keep saying things like gender dysphoria isn't real and that transgender people are just faking everything that they experience... but that is contradictory to observed scientific facts, gender dysphoria is a very real diagnosis and it is something that transgender people experience. Saying that transgender people don't exist is misinformation.
I seriously don't think you see things from the other side. People accept that these individuals have issues with their gender and there is clearly an inability to accept their physical body, because they believe their gender identity differs. No one has denied trans people are conflicted. What doesn't help, in the opinion of the religious folk, is pandering to this instability and encouraging it by allowing people to transition, in the hope that their conflictions and gender issues will be solved.

In fact, you do more harm. It would be better, if these people saught psychological help to try and accept and come to terms with their bodies and try to harmonious their gender identity and their biological gender.

If a fat girl, felt she was slim, identified as a slim girl despite the world seeing her as a fat girl, then we encouraged her to transition and undergo treatment and surgery, how would this help her accept herself in the long run? Clearly the girl has self esteem and deeper issues. By the same token, a trans person needs to find the root of their issue as they are in no way, born that way.

It is clearly an issue which develops in their youth or over time. One trans story isn't the same as another and it's difficult to prove it is an issue from birth as there's no way to clearly assess it.

No one is saying they shouldn't do as they please and live in the body they desire, but this blurring of the term gender and the complete redefinition of it, is what is not only causing confusion, but misleading people who are probably gay, queer or whatever into deluding themselves that they're trans.

I blame Judith flipping Butler for all this confusion.
 






mecca

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In fact, you do more harm. It would be better, if these people saught psychological help to try and accept and come to terms with their bodies and try to harmonious their gender identity and their biological gender.
No that actually does not work, that is what causes harm... non gender affirmative therapy leads transgender people into worse states, it has been studied. Don't you think that was one of the first things people ever tried? On the surface, it may seem like that could work, but in practice it is not beneficial or helpful at all. If it worked, people would do it, but those methods simply do not work because their gender is not the one that is aligned with their body. Their brain chemistry causes them to have a different gender. The thing that has consistently been proven to actually help/improve transgender people's lives is that you believe them and allow them to live as who they are. The treatment for gender dysphoria is transitioning in some way because transitioning has been proven to be helpful.

And mental gender is connected to biology, biology affects the brain and the body... your brain is a body part.
If a fat girl, felt she was slim, identified as a slim girl despite the world seeing her as a fat girl, then we encouraged her to transition and undergo treatment and surgery, how would this help her accept herself in the long run? Clearly the girl has self esteem and deeper issues. By the same token, a trans person needs to find the root of their issue as they are in no way, born that way.
An eating disorder is not the same as gender dysphoria. You can't treat two separate things in the same way, they have different causes and they are experienced differently. Gender dysphoria is connected to the prenatal hormones you are exposed to in the womb. Being trans is not a self confidence thing. And a transgender person can be body positive while still remaining transgender, if you're actually transgender that's just how your brain functions, your gender can't be changed. And you can be body positive while still transitioning, living as who they are is what actually leads them to being positive and happy about who they are and how they look.

But, something that can improve the way transgender people feel about their bodies would be removing the social stigma and pressure to look a certain way. Trans people feel the need to "pass" as the gender that they are so they can be treated normally in society. But society should treat transgender people respectfully regardless of how much they pass or don't pass. I think if gender roles and stigmas were reduced in society, we would see less surgical transitioning. They would probably not feel such a strong need to pass. But trans people are still trans and they would definitely still transition... their gender identity would not go away, they still have gender dysphoria. They will still experience body dysphoria about how their gender does not align with their body and even though society would be accepting of them, they would still want hormones and surgery to help with that. Even if they only transitioned socially by changing their name and pronouns and the way they dress, they would still be a transgender person and transitioning would allow them to be themselves and be happy in their life.
but this blurring of the term gender and the complete redefinition of it, is what is not only causing confusion, but misleading people who are probably gay, queer or whatever into deluding themselves that they're trans.
There is no blurring, there is a very easily understood definition... gender is how your brain perceives yourself and (biological) sex is what your chromosomes are. It is quite simple and should not be confusing. Most people don't even think about or care about their gender and they conflate those two things because they are cisgender and their biological sex is in alignment with their brain. But transgender people care a lot because they are going through a different experience.

A cisgender gay/queer person is capable of understanding their own gender, they know that they aren't transgender because they have no dysphoria about their gender, they feel perfectly fine with the way that they were born. And a transgender person knows that they're trans because they do have dysphoria and they have never felt in tune with their biological sex. You know that you're not transgender because you have never felt a need or a desire to be the opposite sex and you don't experience any dysphoria... that's the same as any cisgender person who also happens to be gay. Sexual orientation is completely separate from gender.
 






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Aazaad

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Why is the hate card always played, when something totally against common sense, rational thought and basic logic is considered the norm?
And don't forget society; not societal norms, the basic aspect that simply cannot exist if lgwhatever got their way. It's eerily similar to the times people buried their daughters alive, since they believed females inferior; even if that is true (which isn't), you do need females to breed. Now, even if you are the gayest! of gays, the most depraved of the bunch, you still shouldn't do anything that would compromise a society even in the slightest, because without a society, you (no matter your preferences) simply can't be.
 






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This is why radical leftism is not “progressive” in any way. In actuality, it is highly regressive.

It is misinformation... people here keep saying things like gender dysphoria isn't real and that transgender people are just faking everything that they experience... but that is contradictory to observed scientific facts, gender dysphoria is a very real diagnosis and it is something that transgender people experience. Saying that transgender people don't exist is misinformation. And it's pretty obvious that transgender people are not faking it... no one would willingly put themselves through discrimination and ridicule when they don't have to.
I think you mean pseudoscientific quacks... and you should revisit the meaning of misinformation :p

IMHO... While gender dysphoria may be a real diagnosis, and many people with transgenderism do appear muddleheaded or faking it, using “gender dysphoria” to push a cultural Marxist ideology does nothing to explain why the suicide rate for people suffering from transgenderism is higher after sex reassignment (sex-reassignment is redefined as “transitioning”). How does “transitioning” help if there is an increase in the number of people taking their own lives after sex reassignment?

According to the following study, the rate of suicide among people with transgenderism increases after sex reassignment. (The scarcity of long term follow-up studies conducted on post-operative cases leaves little more than the information from the 30-year study, running from 1973-2003. Why is there a dearth of studies published?)

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

From the Conclusions:
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
Do the conclusions of the study recommend more or less psychiatric care? (IMHO... improved mental health is the relief for transgenderism.)

Is the disproportionately high rate of suicide the only actual “scientific” example of how sex reassignment affects the lives of people with transgenderism?

If sex reassignment is improving the lives of people with transgenderism, why are they committing suicide at a disproportionate rate compared to the general population?

...

@mecca like your redefinition of the word “gender,” are you now attempting to redefine “suicide” as “help/improve?”
The thing that has consistently been proven to actually help/improve transgender people's lives is that you believe them and allow them to live as who they are.
Classic Orwellian logic reinterpreted for the SJWs:

“Man is Woman”
“Happy is Miserable”
“Help/Improve Transgenders By Driving Them To Suicide”

Only a regressive could claim suicide improves someone’s life...

@mecca without knowing it, you are a transphobe.:eek:
 






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mecca

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IMHO... While gender dysphoria may be a real diagnoses, and many people with transgenderism do appear muddleheaded or faking it, using “gender dysphoria” to push a cultural Marxist ideology
You have no idea what you're talking about. You sound insane. Some people experience gender dysphoria and are transgender... get over it.
 






elsbet

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there are states in the US where one cannot go for psychological treatment to cure homosexuality if they wished, but in every single state, one could go and get acceptance of it by a shrink. so who is censoring whom?
by the way, i will speak for the right when i say that no one here has said the lgbtqi community should be censored. find me a person on this forum who has stopped an lgbtqi person from speaking their mind or expressing their views or take back that statement.




if you remove the holocaust denial propaganda youll be left with holocaust revisionist fact. it will never be extinguished because theres truth in it. that tangent aside....
the scientific is not mitigating anything. society is twisting due to social pressure by the left. the real science hasnt changed (unless you are bill nye the science guy).




thats a stretch, but ill go along for the ride...




it can be inherited, but not all homosexuals are due to a brain miswiring/hormonal output gene regulation issue. many are born because of the hormone mimicking compounds in the environment. some become gay due to psychological trauma. weve gone over this already in this thread and in far, far deeper depth two years ago.
and whats the difference if its inheritable or not? predisposition to nearsightedness is a thing, but i dont see the mr. magoos of the world refusing to wear corrective lenses. and even if the mr. magoos refused to wear glasses, i wouldnt care, but when they try to say its normal to be nearsighted because they were born that way, im going to say something.

here is a question for you: can people be born trans-racist? trans-agist? how about trans-speciesist?


according to you, the following people were born feeling this way (so theyre normal):


View attachment 15317
View attachment 15315

View attachment 15316
What IS that last one... an elfkin? Otherkin?

I cannot tell...



 






polymoog

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What IS that last one... an elfkin? Otherkin?

I cannot tell...
its someone who identifies as a member of the elvish race, i guess. too much tolkien, or did he "always feel" that he was an elf inside his human body since he was young?
 






elsbet

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Well Mecca, I didn't mean to upset you and wasn't questioning your beliefs at all. I was just asking why you're always going on about gender, clearly it is close to your heart and just wanted to know why.

I'll leave it there.
To be fair, she apparently feels just as strongly about veganism-- but is not a vegan. Which is fine-- what is concerning is the blind assumption that the media is always truthful, and that the medical industry has our best interests at heart.

They aren't, and they dont.
 






mecca

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Which is fine-- what is concerning is the blind assumption that the media is always truthful, and that the medical industry has our best interests at heart.
Nice strawman. I don't and have never always assumed that the medical industry or the media are always correct and always in everyone's best interest, nor have I ever claimed anything like that. But being transgender or a part of lgbt has nothing to do with the media... and treatment for transgender individuals is scientifically backed and studied. There's no agenda or sinister plot happening... the reality is that these people are just a part of the human experience and it doesn't have to be a big deal. People don't have to turn things into problems, lgbt individuals should be able to live and enjoy their lives like everyone else without having to face constant ridicule and discrimination for being who they are. There are real problems in this world that people should be focusing on and trying to fix... harmless lgbt people are not one of those problems.
 






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elsbet

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Nice strawman. I don't and have never always assumed that the medical industry or the media are always correct and always in everyone's best interest, nor have I ever claimed anything like that.
Right here...

.. and treatment for transgender individuals is scientifically backed and studied.

Scientifically backed and studied... no, it's really not.

Still... you probably didn't read about the FDA's change in this process, or the linked info you were given. Or the history of other medications that were also scientifically backed and studied, and given to millions of misdiagnosed people before the class action suits hit the courts.

There's no agenda or sinister plot happening...
Foolish statement, where the drug industry is concerned... but that's where you're getting confused. You think its somehow related to this:

... lgbt individuals should be able to live and enjoy their lives like everyone else without having to face constant ridicule and discrimination for being who they are.
Pointing the finger at the well documented, criminal behavior of the medical industry is not an attack on these people. You seem to be having a very hard time with that, I imagine, because it may delegitimize the illness. But if the support is coming from an historically corrupted place-- and it is-- then you are complicit in the further trauma that is being inflicted on these people.

Have you done any reading on DES? The cancer-causing, intersex creating drug that was also used on transgenders, at one time? Same industry that is still administering hormones to these folks.

Back to scientifically backed sudied... check this:
"... the use of puberty blockers to treat transgender children is what’s considered an “off label” use of the medication — something that hasn’t been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. And doctors say their biggest concern is about how long children stay on the medication, because there isn’t enough research into the effects of stalling puberty at the age when children normally go through it....

... doctors caution that estrogen and testosterone, the hormones that are blocked by these medications, also play a role in a child’s neurological development and bone growth.

Another area where doctors say there isn’t enough research is the impact that suppressing puberty has on brain development.


What’s lacking
, she said, are specific studies that look at the neurocognitive effects of puberty blockers.


LINK
 






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