An eternal hell for a finite crime?

[phipps]

@Bubbajay

Micah 4 is speaking of the end times as well. The other two just state the fire would be unquenched.

I did not quote Micah 4, I quoted Malachi 4 and the point I was making in my whole response to you in that post is that the word unquenchable biblically does not mean forever. Malachi 4 shows us that hell is not going to be eternal.

Like I stated on another thread, the second death is the lake of fire, that's the biblical definition of it. It obviously doesn't mean a literal does as it goes on to state its forever. When the Bible says forever or everlasting, that's what it means.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire (Jude 1:7), and that fire turned them “into ashes” as a warning to “those who afterward would live ungodly” (2 Peter 2:6). These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up. Likewise, everlasting fire will go out after it has turned the wicked to ashes (Malachi 4:3). The effects of the fire are everlasting, but not the burning itself.

We must always let the Bible explain itself. I'll stick with Bible truth.

Gehenna means hell. So does "the pit" that's mentioned in the OT. When Gehenna is translated back into Hebrew its hell. The Hebrew word for hell is Gehenna.

Here is more information about the word "hell" in the Bible.

The word "hell" is translated from several different words with various meanings, as indicated below:

IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
31 times from "Sheol," which means the "grave."

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
10 times from "Hades," which means "the grave."
12 times from "Gehenna," which means "the place of burning."
1 time from "Tartarus," which means "a place of darkness."
54 TIMES TOTAL

Note: The word “Gehenna” is a transliteration of the Hebrew “Ge-Hinnom,” which means the “Valley of Hinnom.” This valley, which lies immediately south and west of Jerusalem, was a place where dead animals, garbage, and other refuse were dumped. Fire burned constantly, as it does at modern sanitation dump sites. The Bible uses “Gehenna” or the “Valley of Hinnom” as a symbol of the fire that will destroy the lost at the end of time. The fire of Gehenna was not unending. Otherwise, it would still be burning southwest of Jerusalem today. Neither will the fire of hell be unending.

 

[phipps]

Kill and destroy aren't the same words. Destroy can mean to ruin someone or something. If it meant kill, the translators would have translated it as such, especially since the word kill is used in the same verse.

Remember you've got to understand the context in which the words are being used in the Bible not according to your own understanding.

When Jesus used the word "destroy" in Matthew 10:28 He meant the eternal death of the wicked. He warns us to fear Him who alone is able to kill with the second death.

God bless.

 

[Bubbajay]

Mtthew 10 says don't fear him who CANT kill the soul, but to fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. You quoted wrong

 

[Bubbajay]

Im not seeing how Malachi 4 can even remotely be used to justify soul death.....For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts

 

[Bubbajay]

@Bubbajay


I did not quote Micah 4, I quoted Malachi 4 and the point I was making in my whole response to you in that post is that the word unquenchable biblically does not mean forever. Malachi 4 shows us that hell is not going to be eternal.



Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire (Jude 1:7), and that fire turned them “into ashes” as a warning to “those who afterward would live ungodly” (2 Peter 2:6). These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up. Likewise, everlasting fire will go out after it has turned the wicked to ashes (Malachi 4:3). The effects of the fire are everlasting, but not the burning itself.

We must always let the Bible explain itself. I'll stick with Bible truth.



Here is more information about the word "hell" in the Bible.

The word "hell" is translated from several different words with various meanings, as indicated below:

IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
31 times from "Sheol," which means the "grave."

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
10 times from "Hades," which means "the grave."
12 times from "Gehenna," which means "the place of burning."
1 time from "Tartarus," which means "a place of darkness."
54 TIMES TOTAL

Note: The word “Gehenna” is a transliteration of the Hebrew “Ge-Hinnom,” which means the “Valley of Hinnom.” This valley, which lies immediately south and west of Jerusalem, was a place where dead animals, garbage, and other refuse were dumped. Fire burned constantly, as it does at modern sanitation dump sites. The Bible uses “Gehenna” or the “Valley of Hinnom” as a symbol of the fire that will destroy the lost at the end of time. The fire of Gehenna was not unending. Otherwise, it would still be burning southwest of Jerusalem today. Neither will the fire of hell be unending.

Take the English word hell today and it translates into the Hebrew gehenna. Im much more likely to trust the translators of the KJV than any SDA. If he'll was speaking of the valley of gihennon I'm sure the translators would have used it instead of hell.

Kinda turning into a circle back and forth argument, which I don't want to take part in. I guess we'll all find out eventually.

 

[phipps]

A loving God would not and won't punish people for eternity. The Bible calls the destruction of the wicked God's strange act (Isaiah 28:21) because He does not want anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9) nor does He take "pleasure in the death of the wicked" (Ezekiel 33:11). It would make God a cruel and unloving God to punish people eternally.

The purpose of hell is to destroy the devil, all sin, and the wicked to make the world safe for eternity. Any vestige of sin left on this planet would be a deadly virus forever threatening the universe. It is God’s plan to blot out sin from existence forever!

Its up to us what choice we make because God has told us the consequences of the choices we make whether its to follow Him or the devil. He wants us all to choose Him but He can't force us to.

 

[Bubbajay]

You're using your own reasoning and logic and attributing it to God. You've made your god in your own image.

What's weird is you believe everlasting means forever in every case except hell. You believe this because you don't like the idea of an everlasting punishment. In the OT it clearly states that "workers of iniquity" will receive a special punishment, meaning a more painful.

SDA is a pseudo Christian cult that was formed by Freemasons.

 

[YokeFellow]

I like to hear your honest answer to this. Assume you are the God (assume God exists) and you created the universe and beings in the universe. If so, do you think you would have also created an eternal hell for a finite crime?

According to the Christian Bible, 'Hell' is merely an allegory for the Womb of Reincarnation where we all came from...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

Sadly, Christians have no idea in the world that Reincarnation is taught all throughout their Bibles.

The point of all this is to 'reap what One has sown'. All is fair. All is just.

 

[phipps]

According to the Christian Bible, 'Hell' is merely an allegory for the Womb of Reincarnation where we all came from...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

Sadly, Christians have no idea in the world that Reincarnation is taught all throughout their Bibles.

The point of all this is to 'reap what One has sown'. All is fair. All is just.

Hell will be real and there is no an allegory for anything.

“ ‘Behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up ... that will leave them neither root nor branch. ... You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:1, 3). This will happen.

 

[A Freeman]

I like to hear your honest answer to this. Assume you are the God (assume God exists) and you created the universe and beings in the universe. If so, do you think you would have also created an eternal hell for a finite crime?

The difficulty is that your assumptions are in error, which is why you've presented this strawman argument.

First you (wrongly) assume that any of us could put ourselves in God's stead and see things as He sees them (Isa. 55:8-9).

You then (wrongly) assume that anyone needs to assume God exists, when we have a world completely FILLED with proof of His Existence and of His Creation.

And finally, you (wrongly) assume that Hell-Fire (The Fire) is the penalty for a FINITE crime, which is very obviously a strawman argument.

Our thoughts, words and action echo throughout eternity, so the sins/crimes we commit are NOT "finite", as they involve everything and everyone else, whether we realize it or not.

The truth is all of us have been imprisoned here in this maximum security prison reform school for the criminally insane for the past 6000 years awaiting sentencing for our crimes. This is basically death-row, to put it into the simplest human equivalent terms.

In human prisons, someone is placed on death-row for one or more capital offense/offenses. The terminal end of death-row is the death penalty, at which the human life is ended.

In this spiritual prison we call Earth, we've been given the opportunity to be rehabilitated, even though we are on death-row. So it's still possible at this late hour for us to mercifully receive a pardon. All that is required to receive that pardon is for us to mend our criminal ways, i.e. STOP COMMITTING CRIMES (SINS).

Those who remain unrepentant (unwilling to stop our criminal ways) to the end of this 6000 year period we've been graciously granted, will find themselves in The Fire. That will justly terminate the spiritual life (which is the only real life there is), so that we cannot pose any further threat or harm to others.

It would be totally illogical and unjust to allow unrepentant criminals back into society, where their criminal actions could put others in jeopardy. No just judge would do such a thing, and neither will God on the Last Day.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap (perfect karma).