Aisha's age at the time of her marriage

TempestOfTempo

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Modern jews that you're familiar with, are ashkenazi jews. Ashkenazi's are decendants of Gomer, from the Ezekiel 38 Gog & Magog prophecy ie they are the antagonists to the authentic jewish bloodline.
According to Zechariah 13, the real jews who are chosen/selected from God (as in the Remnant in the prophecies) were the camp who never left the holy land during/after the roman destruction of jerusalem. The camp who survived and remained there.
The ashkenazis are the camp who left..and hence they are 'cut off' from any future redemption. only the camp who remained will experience the redemption that's promised.
So who are the real jews? for one, they don't need to hold a jewish identity to be jewish. jewish by bloodline is enough. The apostles were christian in identity but authentic jewish. So where did their decendants go (that is the ones who had kids), likewise the same goes for all the jewish converts to christianity.
Remember, the true jews are the ones who never left...and the only people who have jewish blood in them and never left, are walking around with a palestinian identity. obv they're mixed with arab blood...but at least arabs are semites or from the arab levant. the ashkenazis are some other shit which is why they're lactose intolerant (land of MILK and honey isnt for them clearly).
Where would you rate the Ethiopian Jewish peoples in that mix? They seem pretty OG to me, but are often treated as second (or worse) class citizens within Jewish society.
 
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Where would you rate the Ethiopian Jewish peoples in that mix? They seem pretty OG to me, but are often treated as second (or worse) class citizens within Jewish society.
you mean beta israel? don't they claim descent from the tribe of dan, hence arent really ethnic jews but part of the 10 tribes? if so then their redemption story is seperate to the Zechariah 13 one. Zech 13 is about the jews specifically the 1st century jews who faced roman persecution.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Got about halfway through so far. What Im getting out of this is that regardless the proclamations made by others, hadeeth is not even close to being an exact science. It comes down to a matter of what the individual wants to believe because they can find a hadeeth interpretation to suit their intended goal. So we are back to cross-examining the chronological science with hadeeth literature... and most of that independent info I have been looking at indicates Aisha was 17-19 during this initial matrimonial process.
 

floss

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... and most of that independent info I have been looking at indicates Aisha was 17-19 during this initial matrimonial process.
David Wood and AlFadi claimed the Hadeeth in Arabic does not say Aisha reached puberty before the consummation. It was rather she reached the age where she can reason and remember things. The English version was a mistranslation. I don't speak Arabic so I can only take what they said. Have you cross exam the Arabic and English?
 

recure

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David Wood and AlFadi claimed the Hadeeth in Arabic does not say Aisha reached puberty before the consummation. It was rather she reached the age where she can reason and remember things. The English version was a mistranslation. I don't speak Arabic so I can only take what they said. Have you cross exam the Arabic and English?
Also the part of the first narration where Aisha says “I burst into laughter” can literally be translated to “I said: hee-hee” (فَقُلْتُ هِيهْ هِيهْ). This is followed by a note from Abu Dawud saying that this means “I breathed” (تَنَفَّسَتْ) but which is mistranslated as “I menstruated”.
 

TempestOfTempo

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David Wood and AlFadi claimed the Hadeeth in Arabic does not say Aisha reached puberty before the consummation. It was rather she reached the age where she can reason and remember things. The English version was a mistranslation. I don't speak Arabic so I can only take what they said. Have you cross exam the Arabic and English?
I will have to try my best at a cross-exam... Im not fluent in Arabic at all (outside of prayer and related, limited religious Arabic language proficiency) but you gave a place to start so I will check it out as best I can.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Meanwhile...



Early puberty cases in girls have surged during covid, doctors say
Doctors, parents and studies are reporting a rise in such cases, with some girls getting their periods as young as 8
By Puja Changoiwala
March 28, 2022 at 10:33 a.m. EDT
(iStock/Washington Post illustration)


This story was co-published with The Fuller Project.
Before the pandemic, Vaishakhi Rustagi, a Delhi-based pediatric endocrinologist, found that cases of early puberty were pretty uncommon, but not unheard of: In a typical year, she would see about 20 such patients.

Then the pandemic hit, and the cases started to pile up. Since June 2020, Rustagi has seen more than 300 girls experiencing early puberty, she said.
Precocious or early puberty is defined as the development of pubertal changes among children earlier than what is considered normal, which stands at 8 for girls and 9 for boys. It’s known to sometimes be caused by genetic syndromes, a family history of the disease, central nervous system problems, and tumors or growths on the ovaries, adrenal glands, pituitary gland or brain.

The phenomenon of increased cases during the pandemic hasn’t been restricted to India — pediatricians across the world, from Italy to Turkey to the United States — have reported increases in precocious puberty cases. Parents have, too.
Another routine the pandemic has disrupted: Your period
When Khyati first noticed blood stains on her daughter’s dress last January, she assumed the child got hurt while playing; after all, at 8 ½ , she didn’t believe there was a chance her daughter could have started menstruating.

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Khyati, a 38-year-old stay-at-home mom in Mumbai who is being identified by her first name only to protect her daughter’s identity, told her daughter to change her clothes and check for cuts and scrapes. The child came back crying, afraid of the blood that was now soaking her dress, Khyati said. Over the next few days, the girl grew aloof, refrained from interacting with her family and wept incessantly, Khyati added. Increasingly anxious, Khyati approached a pediatric endocrinologist, and learned that her daughter, a second-grade student, was indeed having her first period.

Other things started to make more sense, Khyati said. She had noticed her daughter was developing breasts, but had ignored it, assuming the girl was too young to reach puberty. They hadn’t even had the menstruation chat yet; Khyati was saving the talk for when she got a little older and was able to understand the process better. Khyati said her daughter grew disconsolate, and her family struggled to calm her tearful outbursts.
“She hasn’t even told her friends about it,” Khyati said. “Luckily, there were lockdowns, so no school. Otherwise, it would be very embarrassing for her.”

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While Khyati sees the lockdown as saving her daughter from the cruelties of the school playground, some doctors around the world are blaming the pandemic for causing accelerated puberty in the first place.

A study published in January of 2021 surveyed children across five Italian centers of pediatric endocrinology, and found that 328 girls were referred for suspected precocious puberty over seven months between March and September 2020, as opposed to 140 during the same period in 2019. The study concluded that there was an association between “the complex lifestyle changes related to the lockdown” and a higher incidence of precocious puberty in Italian girls, though no difference was observed in the incidence of early puberty among boys.
Pediatricians in the United States and India are also reporting cases of early sexual maturation, with girls as young as 5 developing breasts and those younger than 8 starting menstruation in some reported cases.

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“I noticed that quite a few of my [girl patients] got their period after a lockdown,” said Adiaha I.A. Spinks-Franklin, a pediatrician at Texas Children’s Hospital.

In her cases, the girls were already in the early stages of puberty, with breast buds and pubic hair. But their periods were expected to be months, if not years, in the future, she said.
“Breast buds come at about 10 or 11 years, and then your period comes two years later. That’s the normal process,” Spinks-Franklin said. “From 9 to like 15, you’re going through this process, but the stress of the pandemic sped up that physiological process. Meanwhile, socially and emotionally, they’re still children.”
Why the children’s mental health crisis predates the pandemic
In Delhi, Rustagi also believes the surge in early puberty cases is linked to the pandemic, which saw children holed up in their homes, with prolonged exposure to electronic devices, increased consumption of unhealthy food, increased stress and reduced physical activity — all factors known to increase the risk of early puberty.

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“I think it’s directly related to the amount of stress that the children have gone through,” said Rustagi, adding lockdowns are not the only factor, with many children also coping with grief. “These children have lost family members.”
A global phenomenon
Early puberty is relatively uncommon, affecting about one of 5,000 to 10,000 children, with a female to male ratio of approximately 10:1. For doctors to see such a spike — hundreds of patients in Rustagi’s case — is highly unusual, and a leading indicator of other mental and physical health problems.
In 90 percent of early puberty cases among girls, the cause is never ascertained. With the recent surge, said Rustagi, the cause cannot be identified for nearly all of her precocious puberty patients.

“We have to do all the investigations because we cannot call it idiopathic, which is causeless, without ruling out all other causes,” said Rustagi. In one example, a 6-year-old girl who had started developing breasts was given an MRI scan and an abdominal ultrasound to check for tumors before being declared a case of idiopathic early puberty.

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The average age of the onset of puberty has decreased over the last century, said Alok Sardesai, a pediatric and adolescent endocrinologist practicing in Mumbai. He added that while genetic factors play a major role, there is also consensus that environmental variables — such as weight, fetal nutrition, childhood dietary habits, physical activity and psychological factors — have an impact.
He pointed to two pandemic-related factors that could have led to the increased incidence of precocious puberty among girls: obesity resulting from decreased physical activity during the lockdowns and increased exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals (EDCs) at home. Sardesai added that he, too, has seen an increase in such cases since March 2020.

A September 2021 study carried out in Italy questioned whether there was enough evidence to link rising cases of early puberty with weight gain, but noted that the trend was clearly a real phenomenon in Italy and one that seemed to be related to “persistent changes in lifestyle” since the start of the pandemic, and not just limited to the lockdown period.

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A recent Turkish study, which examined the data of all patients diagnosed with precocious puberty in a pediatric endocrinology clinic in Izmir, Turkey, also found a substantial increase in the number of idiopathic cases. The study compared data from the first year of the pandemic (April 2020 to March 2021) with the three preceding years. It found the number of girls diagnosed with idiopathic precocious puberty during the one-year study period during the pandemic was more than double that of any of the previous three years, with 58 cases of idiopathic CPP reported during the pandemic year compared to a total of 66 cases over the course of all three preceding years.
Sezer Acar, a pediatrician at Dr. Behçet Uz Children’s Hospital in Izmir and one of the authors of the study, said they decided to investigate what was going on after seeing a sharp rise in cases.

“Previously, we used to treat one or two patients a month due to precocious puberty, but during the lockdown period I had to treat two or three patients a week,” Acar said. “I asked my doctor friends in the city I lived in and in surrounding cities about this, and they also had noticed an increase in the frequency of precocious puberty.”
An indicator of other health problems
Among girls, precocious puberty leads to the development of breasts and pubic hair, in addition to acne, growth acceleration, menstruation, voice changes and other secondary sexual characteristics. It is also known to augment depression, eating disorders, substance abuse and anti-social behavior. A 2018 study that examined the psychological repercussions of early puberty on girls found that affected girls have higher anxiety levels, lower self-esteem and a more negative body image compared to girls who did not go through precocious puberty.

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Rustagi, the Delhi-based pediatric endocrinologist, said the immense stigma around menstruation across the world can make life much harder for girls experiencing early puberty. She added that the mainstream treatment for the condition, a form of hormone therapy known as GnRH analogue therapy, is highly effective, but she suspects most patients never seek out treatment in India, where taboos around periods mean that the majority of women and girls suffer from a lack of awareness about menstrual hygiene.
“In many cases, parents refuse treatment for precocious puberty as they believe menstruation is a doing of God, and that meddling with menses would mean insulting the deities,” she said.
Khyati faced a similar struggle when her daughter got her first period at 8½. Khyati lives with her parents-in-law, who insisted that the girl should not undergo the treatment, as menses were “God’s gift” and interfering with them could lead to complications in the future.

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“But my husband was adamant,” Khyati said. “It was too early for our daughter. Now that treatment is available, we did not want to torture our child.”
Puja Changoiwala is an award-winning journalist and author based in Mumbai. She writes about the intersections of gender, crime, social justice, human rights and technology in India.
Erica Hensley contributed reporting from Georgia. She is a public health and data reporter with The Fuller Project based out of Mississippi and Georgia.
The phenomenon of well-documented, accelerated advancement of menstruation and other hallmarks of puberty in modern youth in no way excuse children 6-9 years of age being saddled with the physical hardships and mental/emotional responsibilities of becoming a spouse and parent before they have aged into double digits.
 

Awoken2

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Jan 22, 2018
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6,205
Their body says they are ready.
The way you use the word "ready" is quite disturbing.

Let's start here and look at the unfortunate affliction of precocious puberty...or precocious adulthood to somebody like yourself, obvs.

An indicator of other health problems
Among girls, precocious puberty leads to the development of breasts and pubic hair, in addition to acne, growth acceleration, menstruation, voice changes and other secondary sexual characteristics. It is also known to augment depression, eating disorders, substance abuse and anti-social behavior. A 2018 study that examined the psychological repercussions of early puberty on girls found that affected girls have higher anxiety levels, lower self-esteem and a more negative body image compared to girls who did not go through precocious puberty.
So, any female child that encounters precocious puberty, which in your words, makes her then "ready" to be a wife and sex object will also be likely to be suffering from higher anxiety, lower self esteem and negative body image.

I just got one question for you....answer it honestly.

Would you say an 8 year old child suffering from the above psychological issues would be good wife material?

Child abuse is child abuse ...you can move the goal posts as much as you like but marrying and having sex with children is morally wrong.

End of.
 

Maldarker

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Mar 23, 2021
Messages
2,064
Modern jews that you're familiar with, are ashkenazi jews. Ashkenazi's are decendants of Gomer, from the Ezekiel 38 Gog & Magog prophecy ie they are the antagonists to the authentic jewish bloodline.
According to Zechariah 13, the real jews who are chosen/selected from God (as in the Remnant in the prophecies) were the camp who never left the holy land during/after the roman destruction of jerusalem. The camp who survived and remained there.
The ashkenazis are the camp who left..and hence they are 'cut off' from any future redemption. only the camp who remained will experience the redemption that's promised.
So who are the real jews? for one, they don't need to hold a jewish identity to be jewish. jewish by bloodline is enough. The apostles were christian in identity but authentic jewish. So where did their decendants go (that is the ones who had kids), likewise the same goes for all the jewish converts to christianity.
Remember, the true jews are the ones who never left...and the only people who have jewish blood in them and never left, are walking around with a palestinian identity. obv they're mixed with arab blood...but at least arabs are semites or from the arab levant. the ashkenazis are some other shit which is why they're lactose intolerant (land of MILK and honey isnt for them clearly).
HAHAHAHHA!!! That's some fun stuff because lactose intolerant thats a new one.
 

A Freeman

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Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
6,725
p***philia is a form of r*pe, i.e. a violent and unlawful sexual assault, perpetrated against a weaker, defenseless individual, specifically in this case against a child. It unjustly robs a child of their innocence, and is the epitome of injustice and oppression, as an older, physically stronger and wicked, out-of-control adult human forcefully steals what they want from a smaller, physically weaker child incapable of fighting back.

r*pe is a capital offense under The Law that God gave us to protect us from this sort of evil and to set and keep us free from injustice and oppression (Deut. 22:23-27).

No God-fearing dad would ever allow his children to be molested by some p***phile. The dad's role as the head of the family is to be the protector and spiritual guide. That's why The Law that God gave us judges those who afflict a defenseless, fatherless child in ANY way, to be guilty of a capital crime.

Exodus 22:22-24
22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto Me, I will surely hear their cry;
22:24 And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

See also Deut. 24:17, 27:19.


There are many other similar references found elsewhere in the Old Covenant. Please see a few examples below:

Psalm 82:2-3
82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? The rock.
82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do well; seek Judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Jeremiah 22:3 Thus saith the "I AM"; Execute ye Judgment and Righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.


The Gospel accounts contain the same message from Jesus+Christ:

Matthew 18:6-7
18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

The Koran/Quran repeatedly COMMANDS its readers to read, study and keep The Law and the Gospel that the Koran was sent to CONFIRM, and to NOT be in doubt of the TRUE Law and Gospel (the Bible) reaching them.

A few examples:

Sura 3:1-3
3:1. A. L. M. (Almighty. Loving. Merciful.)
3:2. Allah (God). There is no God but He,- the Living, the Self-Existing (YHWH - "I AM"), Eternal.
3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses the Book (Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. Lest YE should say: "The Book (Torah) was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by careful study:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If the Book (Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Sura 15:9-10
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles BEFORE THEE amongst the religious sects (John 17:21; Sura 6:159) of old:

Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.

See also Suras 2:53, 2:87-93, 2:97-98, 3:48-50,4:54, 5:46-51, 6:91-94, 7:157, 9:111, 10:37, 11:17, 12:111, 17:2-4, 21:48, 22:52-55, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29, 61:6-7, 78:2.

The Koran/Quran therefore does NOT in any way condone p***philia, anymore than the Bible does. The only way someone can mistakenly believe otherwise is to take a specific verse out of context, and pretend that God's Law (found only in the first five books of the Bible) somehow no longer applies, which is ridiculous (Matt. 5:17-18, Sura 5:49).

The reason the totally fabricated story of Aisha was added to the totally fabricated "Islamic tradition" (hadith) was to try to legalize p***philia. It's the same reason that the Roman Catholic church added the totally fabricated story of the adulterous woman to the Bible, to condone and promote adultery which, like r*pe and p***philia, is a capital crime under The Perfect Law that God gave us.

If everyone would read, study and keep The Law, instead of arguing over the doctrinal differences among the various sects – all of which are similarly prohibited by The Law – everyone would benefit, and child molestation, p***philia, adultery, r*pe and all other forms of theft would no longer be tolerated.

Learn The Way home or face The Fire.
 

TempestOfTempo

Superstar
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
8,076
p***philia is a form of r*pe, i.e. a violent and unlawful sexual assault, perpetrated against a weaker, defenseless individual, specifically in this case against a child. It unjustly robs a child of their innocence, and is the epitome of injustice and oppression, as an older, physically stronger and wicked, out-of-control adult human forcefully steals what they want from a smaller, physically weaker child incapable of fighting back.

r*pe is a capital offense under The Law that God gave us to protect us from this sort of evil and to set and keep us free from injustice and oppression (Deut. 22:23-27).

No God-fearing dad would ever allow his children to be molested by some p***phile. The dad's role as the head of the family is to be the protector and spiritual guide. That's why The Law that God gave us judges those who afflict a defenseless, fatherless child in ANY way, to be guilty of a capital crime.

Exodus 22:22-24
22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto Me, I will surely hear their cry;
22:24 And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

See also Deut. 24:17, 27:19.


There are many other similar references found elsewhere in the Old Covenant. Please see a few examples below:

Psalm 82:2-3
82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? The rock.
82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do well; seek Judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Jeremiah 22:3 Thus saith the "I AM"; Execute ye Judgment and Righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.


The Gospel accounts contain the same message from Jesus+Christ:

Matthew 18:6-7
18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

The Koran/Quran repeatedly COMMANDS its readers to read, study and keep The Law and the Gospel that the Koran was sent to CONFIRM, and to NOT be in doubt of the TRUE Law and Gospel (the Bible) reaching them.

A few examples:

Sura 3:1-3
3:1. A. L. M. (Almighty. Loving. Merciful.)
3:2. Allah (God). There is no God but He,- the Living, the Self-Existing (YHWH - "I AM"), Eternal.
3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses the Book (Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. Lest YE should say: "The Book (Torah) was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by careful study:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If the Book (Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Sura 15:9-10
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles BEFORE THEE amongst the religious sects (John 17:21; Sura 6:159) of old:

Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.

See also Suras 2:53, 2:87-93, 2:97-98, 3:48-50,4:54, 5:46-51, 6:91-94, 7:157, 9:111, 10:37, 11:17, 12:111, 17:2-4, 21:48, 22:52-55, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29,61:6-7, 78:2.

The Koran/Quran therefore does NOT in any way condone p***philia, anymore than the Bible does. The only way someone can mistakenly believe otherwise is to take a specific verse out of context, and pretend that God's Law (found only in the first five books of the Bible) somehow no longer applies, which is ridiculous (Matt. 5:17-18, Sura 5:49).

The reason the totally fabricated story of Aisha was added to the totally fabricated "Islamic tradition" (hadith) was to try to legalize p***philia. It's the same reason that the Roman Catholic church added the totally fabricated story of the adulterous woman to the Bible, to condone and promote adultery which, like r*pe and p***philia, is a capital crime under The Perfect Law that God gave us.

If everyone would read, study and keep The Law, instead of arguing over the doctrinal differences among the various sects – all of which are similarly prohibited by The Law – everyone would benefit, and child molestation, p***philia, adultery, r*pe and all other forms of theft would no longer be tolerated.

Learn The Way home or face The Fire.
Wow, Im going to have to re-read and re-re-read this post before I attempt to craft a proper response. Thank you!
 

sickgirl15

Established
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
207
Again more facts. I'm offering the core teachings of Islam that's been known and practiced for over a thousand years. When I post verses from the Quran that prove it teaches prepubescent marriage the poster gets attacked instead of the verses being posted.


The sources also show that Aisha was prepubescent. In Sahih Muslim 3481, when she was taken to consummate the marriage, we read; ‘A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he died she was eighteen years old’. Because she was playing with dolls, which is forbidden as they are images, it confirms her prepubescence: young children are not held to observance as strict as that to which older people are held. In Sahih al-Bukhari 6130, it is said: ‘I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Messenger used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for `Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.
Hello, Bubbajay:) ! Nice to meet you! I have told others the exact same (disturbing; but reality isn’t comprised of making people feel “comfortable..,” and I have been called “Islamophobic,” others have denied what is written regarding poor Aisha’s age when she was (obviously) set up to marry you know who, people have refused to Google my (our) sad, but factual information, and those in denial have attempted to silence me time & time again. I respect you for posting the TRUTH about this situation, hey…when your speaking FACTS, it may enrage those in denial, but in the end..you can’t win by outrightly denying proven, FACTUAL info! Cheers! :)
 

A Freeman

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King David’s Marriage To 12 Year Old Abishag in the Bible

“…29 Brothers, I can tell you with confidence that the PATRIARCH DAVID died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 HE WAS A PROPHET and knew that God had promised him on oath that He would place one of his descendants on his throne.” Acts 2:29-30


Let’s now look at what classical to contemporary scholars say on the Hebrew word ‘Na’arah’.


Professor Judith Romney Wegner:




Anglican Priest Herbert Danby:




André LaCocque who is a Professor of Old Testament Emeritus at Chicago Theological Seminary states ‘Na’arah’ designates a girl who cannot “conceive” i.e., pre-pubescent:










Mary F. Foskett Wake Forest Kahle Professor of Religion, her studies are the New Testament, she says the word ‘Na’arah’ refers to someone who is twelve and a half years old:










Cornelia B. Horn Professor of early Christianity, and John W. Martens professor of theology at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota:




Rabbi Dr. Judith Z. Abrams:










Professor Rachel Adler:




Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rubin:




And:




With the foregoing in perspective, we get a clear picture that the young girl who was married to 70-year-old King David, was no older than 12 years and a half.


At the time of the marriage to Abishag, he was 70-years-old. David was 30 years old when he became a King, and he reigned for forty years. This incident happened towards the end of his life as the Christian scholars will clarify further down::




The scholars clarified that those girls who were a “Na’arah’ most probably did not hit puberty i.e., they were pre-pubescent. This does have support from the Bible. For example, Rebecca at the time of her marriage was called a ‘Na’arah and all ancient Rabbis deduced that she was no older than 8-years old when she was married off to 40-year-old Isaac: “Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite Times“. Furthermore, pre-pubescent marriages were accepted and lawful during when Moses was alive, as his soldiers (we are told) married them: “A Detailed Historical Examination Of Numbers 31:18“.


So what reason was there for the 12-year-old Abishag being with Prophet David? As mentioned briefly earlier, according to Christian exegesis she became a wife (or concubine).


One of the needs was to keep King David warm and for her to “lie in thy bosom”, his sexual needs be met:




The commentators in regards to this state that she was brought to Prophet David to cater for all his needs, including his sexual needs. To “lie” in bed with Prophet David was to become a wife (or concubine as some commentaries say).


The Pulpit Commentaries:







Matthew Henry’s Complete Commentary on the Bible:







Joseph Benson’s Commentary of the Old and New Testaments:







Whedon’s Commentary on the Bible:







John Gill’s Exposition of the Whole Bible:




Thomas Coke Commentary on the Holy Bible:







Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible:







David Guzik Commentary on the Bible:







The Popular Commentary by Paul E. Kretzmann:







Matthew Poole’s English Annotations on the Holy Bible:







Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament:







Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Whole Bible:




We deduce from the above evidence:


1. King David was 70 years old at the time of this incident.
2. Abishag was brought over to cater for all of Prophet David’s needs.
3. Abishag became a wife (or concubine as some commentaries say) and she was lawful to lie in bed with David, as polygamy was legal.
4. At the time of Abishag’s marriage, she was pre-pubescent and 12 years old when taken into Prophet David’s house.


Conclusion:


Reading 1 Kings 1:1-3 and the Hebrew word used to describe the girl who was married off to King David, shows that child marriages (as we call them today) it was quite accepted in the society Prophet David lived. The Hebrew word Na’arah used in the verse, according to ancient scholars described girls who were no more than 12 years old and pre-pubescent.


(1) – “The story of King David, a sinner who remained beloved by God and favored by his people, has been a favorite of evangelical Christians who support Donald Trump, even during the Republican primaries. Their reasoning is that like King David, Donald Trump has committed adultery, and like King David (or President Franklin Roosevelt, as one columnist wrote), Trump can be a great (and moral) leader even after having committed adultery.” (“The “biblical” defense of Trump’s affair with Stormy Daniels”, 26th March 2018, https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/26/17164268/stormy-daniels-donald-trump-bible-christian )

Please note well that there isn't one single Biblical verse quoted in the cited post above confirming the alleged age at the time of their marriage of ANY of the women in the Bible. Why? BECAUSE NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION.

This is yet another pathetic and illogical strawman argument, made by sick, twisted people who actually support p***philia, wittingly or otherwise.

The very same goes for the Koran/Quran. There is not one single reference in the Koran to Aisha, nor to the alleged age of ANY of the women in the Koran/Quran at the time of their marriages. The totally fabricated story of Aisha is found only in the totally fabricated hadith, which has become the talmud of the "muslims".

The reason sick, twisted people promote p***philia is because they don't know right from wrong. And the reason they don't know right from wrong is because they don't read, study and live by The Law that our Creator gave us, found only in the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. as we've been COMMANDED to do throughout the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran/Quran, for our own individual and collective benefit.

Instead, they choose to believe, espouse and promote the lies of their corporate religious superstitions, instead of DOING what it actually says throughout the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran/Quran.

The evidence that this is the case is overwhelming. The "Jews" don't follow Biblical law or they would have never written the Babylonian Jewish Talmud, which they place above the Old Covenant. The "Christians" don't follow The Law or the Gospel and The Example Jesus gave us (which is The Way -- Sura 3:55) they would have never written the Catechism (Roman Catholicism) or adopted so many of its pagan practices, rites and rituals (all of the Protestant denominations). And the "Muslims" don't follow The Law or they would have never written the hadith and made it a partner to God's Word, thereby committing shirk.

Without their religious superstitions, pagan rites and rituals, ALL organized religion would cease to exist. In the instant matter being discussed, the so-called Muslims are faced with the conundrum of either admitting that the totally fabricated story of Aisha is, in fact, fabricated (in which case they would be forced to acknowledge their 5 "pillars" are found nowhere in the Koran/Quran) or keep defending their made-up stories, and all of the sick, twisted pedophiles who wrote them and promote them.

Each of us has a choice to make NOW, in the present moment.

We can either learn to live by The Law, or we will die by The Law in The Fire (the second death -- of the soul/spirit-Being, i.e. the REAL you), exactly as we've been warned throughout the Old Covenant, New Covenant and Koran/Quran for thousands of years.

The choice, as always, is yours to make.

Peace be upon you.


For quick reference:

Malachi 4
4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you EliJAH the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM" (Sura 43:61):
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Revelation 20:12-15
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the "Lake of Fire". This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the "Lake of Fire".
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new Earth: for the first heaven and the first Earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Sura 9:107-111
9:107. And there are those who put up mosques (churches; synagogues; etc.), by way of mischief and BETRAYAL - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against "I AM" (Revelation 12:7) and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; but "I AM" doth declare that they are certainly LIARS.
9:108. Never stand thou forth therein. There is an Holy Place (Mt. Moriah) whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and "I AM" loveth those who make themselves pure.
9:109. Which then is best? - he that layeth his foundation on piety (a Rock - Matthew 7:24-27) to "I AM" and His Good Pleasure? - or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? And it doth crumble to pieces with him, into The Fire of Hell. And "I AM" guideth not people that do wrong (if they are doing wrong Satan is guiding them).
9:110. The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And "I AM" is All-Knowing, Wise.
9:111. "I AM" hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is The Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (The Torah), The Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and The Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than "I AM"? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of "I AM" written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.
 
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recure

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classical and contemporary scholars say otherwise.
Not like you'd know from experience; you're just copy-pasting articles that you think support your position. Your source contradicts itself by claiming multiple times that David's wife was "twelve years old and pre-pubescent" even though the authorities it cites say that a na'arah (female that is twelve to twelve-and-a-half) was the age at which the girl was pubescent or thought to be entering puberty. Regardless, the source omits 1 Kings 1:4 which says "the king knew her not".

It's quite strange that you claim to lean towards the theory that Aisha was 18 when she married Muhammad yet you're trying very hard to legitimize the validity of accepting the 6/9 theory. Again, if we concede that Aisha reached puberty at 9 based on the evidence you're giving, what justifies marrying her at 6? So far, you keep dodging the question and saying "scholars don't agree on the age". At this point I just have to assume you're a bit deranged because you think you're making convincing arguments when you actually sound insane.
 

recure

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Where ??????
Read your sources and you'll see. This is the second time you've asked me to show you what your own evidence says.

I am not legitimizing it. The Nature, the Body, the Customs legitimize it for thousands of years. It is you in the 21st century, affected by population control propaganda, against science, de-legitimize something not wrong at all.

and if someone believed Aisha was 9 then still it is justified historically, naturally, biblically while it is still being practiced around the world.
I think you believe the traditional 6/9 age of Aisha but are ashamed to admit it, despite the rest of your shameless rhetoric. But as I said before, even if menarche can occur at 9 years old, which all the evidence admits is a rare occurrence, that does not prove that Aisha had reached puberty at 9. That's begging the question. The only biblical justification you gave for allowing a young girl to marry an elderly man is the example of Mary and Joseph, and David and Abishag, which were both non-sexual, circumstantial marriages. In any case, the marriage was determined by a fixed age at which menarche usually occurs (i.e. twelve) and which is supported by the scientific data.

Christians don't believe that just because the Old Testament prophets and kings practiced something that it is an example for all time. Jesus said that some things were allowed to the Hebrews for their "hardness of heart... but from the beginning it was not so", this includes polygamy since Adam did not have more than one wife. You can call it "population control propaganda" but Christ also taught that celibacy is better than marriage whereas Muhammad prohibited celibacy.

Marrying at 6 was like engagement. thats all.
When I showed you a hadith wherein Muhammad refused to marry Fatima to Abu Bakr or Uthman because "she is young" and they were much older, your excuse was "maybe she hadn't reached puberty". Yet in the case of Aisha, marrying her at 6 was "just an engagement", a distinction not made in the text. Total double standard on your part. Even if it was "just an engagement", you still have not given a reason for why Muhammad was engaged to a pre-pubescent girl.

I admit that convincing the emotional generations of our times is very hard.
You can keep trying but you're honestly doing more harm to Muhammad's (as well as your own) reputation by confirming people's biases against him.
 

A Freeman

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It never ceases to amaze what Lucifer/Satan/Iblis can fill people's minds with, and get them to do and try to rationalize.

Did Jesus marry some small child? NO. He specifically stated in three of the five accounts of the Gospel of Jesus that it would be better for the criminal inclined to do ANYTHING offensive to little children to have a millstone hanged about their neck and to be cast into the sea (see Matt. 18:6-7, Mark 9:42, Luke 17:2). Is there ANY actual evidence from God in His Old Covenant, or New Covenant, or Koran/Quran that Abraham, David or Muhammad married some small child? Again, NO.

ANYONE
who steals a child's innocence from them is a criminal, and should be put to death, according to our Creator, so that we may put evil out from among us. What God has said on the subject is what matters, NOT what the so-called "experts" and "scholars" have to say about it, who know absolutely NOTHING or they would be terrified to continually commit the capital offense of trying to make a partner out of their made-up stories with the Word of God. This is what The Angel/Messenger of God (Christ) said about the so-called "experts", "scholars" and priests, pastors, rabbis and imams 2000 years ago, when He was here in the body of Jesus:

Matthew 15:13-14
15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath NOT planted, shall be rooted up.
15:14 LET THEM ALONE: THEY BE BLIND LEADERS OF THE BLIND. AND IF THE BLIND LEAD THE BLIND, BOTH SHALL FALL INTO THE DITCH (OR PIT).

If anyone can provide even ONE verse or ONE ayat that states the age of ANY women in the Old Covenant, New Covenant or the Koran/Quran at the time of their marriage, then please do so. Otherwise you have ZERO actual evidence to suggest that God condones p***philia, which is what every single unbeliever advocating for "marriages" between adults and children is actually trying to disgustingly promote, whether they are spiritually blind to that fact or not.

Sura 2:221. Do not marry unbelieving WOMEN* (idolaters), until they believe: a slave WOMAN who believes is better than an unbelieving WOMAN, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your women) to unbelievers until they believe: a man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (only) beckon you to The Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to The Garden (of Bliss) and Forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: that they may celebrate His praise.

*Women, able to make and understand the ramifications of such decisions, NOT children who are not yet ready to make adult decisions

If they cannot provide even a single verse/ayat indicating the age of a woman on her wedding day (to prove marriages between adult men and female children) then they are indeed LIARS.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with Fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Sura 3:24. This because they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days": for their forgeries deceive them as to their own religion.
 
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