ABSURDITIES AND CRUELTIES OF THE "CHRISTIAN" RELIGION (PART I)

shankara

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My Kingdom Is Not Of This World” (CHRISTOS)

It is difficult to communicate through the fog of irrational superstitions in which many religious people unquestioningly believe. They have internalised the doctrines so much that to hear any criticism only makes them panic and start praying for the soul of the one who criticises the doctrine. Anyway, what is the point of such criticism? “Why can’t you just let them be, you big meanie?”, I hear some cry…

Simply because institutional Christianity (and Abrahamic religion in general) has traumatized people to the point where they are averse to any sort of spirituality. This is a great tragedy and a problem to be resolved.

Nonetheless, let’s be clear, we are not saying that Christianity is a bad thing, and even less that there is something personally wrong with Christians. Their spirituality is good, it is beautiful, many Christians are genuine devotees of Christ and possess great love for humanity. What we want is the perfection of the doctrine, the resolution of it’s logical inconsistencies, not for people to cease being devotees of Christ but for them to understand more clearly His message and thus to end the division and conflict between religions. Because this division and conflict is what gets in the way of the INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY we need in order to resist the dark forces.

To clarify, the first two sections deal mostly with Protestant doctrine while the section “FREE WILL” deals equally with Catholic dogma.

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE (“SOLA FIDE”)

Both read the Bible day and night,
But you read black where I read white”


(WILLIAM BLAKE)

Before we can get anywhere with a criticism of Christianity, it is necessary to finish with this doctrine, as it makes a lot of necessary discussion impossible to hold. The doctrine of “SOLA FIDE” denies that any works which a person makes can actually lead to their salvation. It holds that there is such an impassible gulf between God and Humanity, due to Original Sin, that our WORKS are meaningless and it is only our FAITH in Christ (i.e. His Death and Resurrection) that can save us by the process of Substitutionary Atonement.

Of course when you begin with a notion so far removed from any normal earthly standard of justice - people being punished for the bad they do and rewarded for the good they do - it’s not really possible to discuss what JUSTICE is. So let’s have a look at some of the more evident logical fallacies of this doctrine.

To begin, however, on a positive note, we will say that there is some Reason behind the notion of SOLA FIDE, it isn’t completely crazy. For example, it is true that in this world there are people who make mighty material labours, for example they earn a great deal of money and give a lot of it to charity. If we take “WORKS” in this sense then indeed a person cannot be truly spiritually exalted solely by such methods. Spirituality is about what we are within, we can throw money at things and that won’t change what we are, furthermore giving lots of money without calling for reform in the structure which perpetuates inequality (for the benefit of the rich) is one-sided and perhaps even counter-productive.

Yet when we look a little more closely at the doctrine we start to find problems. Part of the problem comes from the total importance given to FAITH (which is not FAITH in the sense of CONSCIOUS FAITH but we will come to that later…). Those who accept SOLA FIDE believe that a person can spend their whole life doing all kinds of evil but so long as they “Repent” at the end they will be saved. The word “Repent” is in speechmarks not because we necessarily doubt the sincerity of these peoples’ repentance but because Repentance is a process and not a single act, though a single act may begin it. On the other hand, the SOLA FIDE doctrine considers a person who has spent their life devoted to the good to be Eternallly Damned unless they make the act of affirming the salvific power of the Death and Resurrection of the Christ (“confessing Christ”). To anyone not caught up in the bizarre internal logic of such an idea, this would seem deeply injust.

Repentance is a process, a process which involves striving to undo all the evil we have done and the ways in which it has spiritually disfigured us, striving to become good. It is a process which, according to Eastern Religious Traditions, may take many lives. Repentance may be with the help of the Christ, as the Catholics affirm, but it is not “freely given” by the Christ, we have to make efforts. If a person passes their life in total debauchery, then they will have to clear all the negative energies they have created, it is through doing this that they can attain a higher spiritual level.

Anyway, were repentance a single act, what standard would it have to meet to be accepted? Would repentance out of fear be permitted? Or would it have to be based upon perfect love? Assuming it’s the latter, no-one is so pure and holy to as act based upon perfect love, at least, to come to act based upon perfect love would be the fruit and not the seed of a process of repentance.

When we start to look at things in this light, with some sanity, we can see that the whole notion of JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE stands upon some very shaky logical foundations. It was, after all, effectively an invention of Martin Luther, who was a deeply troubled individual, unsure whether he was a doing the work of God or possessed by the Devil.

As already stated, the doctrine of SOLA FIDE basically boils down to the notion that humanity is so intrinsically evil that we cannot by any means save ourselves from (eternal) hellfire, only Jesus can save us by means of His Death on the Cross and His Resurrection. All of our good works mean nothing. That is one side of the doctrinal equation. On the other side, we are saved by the “free gift” of God’s grace.

We can clearly see in this doctrine the internal crisis Martin Luther was going through, the chaotic products of his disturbed and confused mind. SOLA FIDE at once reduces humanity to being something absolutely evil and at the same time inflates us to the point that we are worthy of salvation as a “free gift”. This notion is extremely, visibly, dualistic and unbalanced. Any sensible person knows that no human is irredeemably evil (only the Devil himself) and there are no free gifts at all (only life itself).

Of course, as in the Christian doctrine generally, no explanation is given of how we are responsible for this evil which was purportedly created by our ancestors rather than ourselves. How can a person be responsible for the sins of their parents? They can only inherit their tendencies. It is clear that this whole business about Adam and Eve must be symbolic, a parable for the descent of each Being into the complication and harshness of material existence. Our wickedness isn’t literally inherited.

Furthermore, how can we place our own sins upon someone else’s shoulders, even those of the CHRIST? A person can guide another but cannot take on all the results of another’s wrongdoing, everyone is responsible for their own salvation. If this were not the case then it would be possible to buy a place in Heaven, to pay someone else to be saved on your behalf (this notion, ‘Indulgences’, being exactly what provoked Luther’s Reformation). This is not to say that there is no forgiveness, but that forgiveness is the result of a continual and unceasing process of repentance, of turning around, of walking the spiritual path.

The Bible, the New Testament, is quite clear. The CHRIST says:

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

Bearing fruit is a question of manifesting what is within. If what is within us is good, decent, human, then we will bear good fruits. If what is in us is toxic, poisonous, cruel, then we will bear bad fruits. By making spiritual efforts we can become better, more decent, more human, therefore we will bear good fruit and we will not be “thrown into the fire”. This passage says nothing about another tree being cut down on our behalf.

What are these spiritual efforts? They consist of the aforementioned continual process of repentance, of abandoning sin and turning back towards divinity. They are bringing ourselves into harmony with Christ’s teachings. Prayer, meditation, worship, these are elements in this process. Just as importantly we need to act ethically, we don’t need to be fanatics but we should be to some extent ascetics, mystics. The mystic comes to understand God, to experience Him, and that sort of direct experience is the foundation of TRUE FAITH, CONSCIOUS FAITH.

In Galatians of the Apostle Paul it says:

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”

There is no “get out of jail free”, “God is not mocked”, there is only an example to follow - CHRIST the LOGOS. CHRIST enacted externally the internal drama of Rebellion and Ego-Death followed by Spiritual Resurrection, the drama which we all enact within ourselves as we walk the Spiritual Path. If we follow His example we will set ourselves free.

PREDESTINATION

The Christians’ justification for the seeming unfairness of their Soteriology is the DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION. This is to say that God has decided in advance who will be saved (and effectively, therefore, who will be damned). They consider that God is Incomprehensible to us, we cannot apply any standard of JUSTICE to Him, even if this standard of JUSTICE is arrived at by REASON (which is the part of man which is “the image of God”). It is by his “MERCY”, not any efforts we ourselves make, that He saves some humans from hell. There is no reason why He should have to, He does it by His own sweet will. Every human being is guilty by birth, by the mere fact of existing, and deserving of Eternal Punishment. No-one deserves to be saved but God saves some anyway.

In truth whoever invented this doctrine must not have had a lot of love for themselves or for humanity. When we understand that WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD (not just some of us), when we realize that GOD IS LOVE, it becomes clear that God would not want anyone to suffer. We may be imperfect, indeed to ascend spiritually we must rid ourselves of our imperfections, but we are not “EVIL” as such. PREDESTINATION is the belief that some souls are created better than others, more worthy than others. Some are created for heaven and some simply to be fuel for the fires of hell. Is God a tyrant who needs spirits to fuel hellfire, and thus creates people bound only to Eternal Suffering and with no choice whatsoever in the matter?

In passing, it is worth noting that the doctrine of the Catholic Church rejects both Sola Fide and absolute Predestination. Without going into much detail, however, we can say that it still isn’t by any means logically consistent, particularly in the matter dealt with in the next section...

FREE WILL

The doctrine of most Christian Churches is that PREDESTINATION exists simultaneously with FREE WILL. Being “saved” is a voluntary act, an act of FREE WILL. In fact the entire ABRAHAMIC edifice rests upon the notion of people having CHOICE, upon every person being able to choose between GOOD and BAD.

If we indeed had Total Free Will then this would make sense, if the situation was clear like we have to simply accept some particular voluntary suffering in order to go to Heaven. The Christians in fact deny this, they accept some voluntary asceticisms themselves but do not accept that non-Christians engaging in the same voluntary asceticisms would also arrive at Salvation. LIFE, anyway, is not so simple as a binary choice between two things, there are many choices, many shades in the ethical picture, what we are for GOOD or for BAD is complex and the struggle to be GOOD must be unceasing.

Still, were we all born with the same CONSCIENCE it would be possible to say that whatever situation a person is born into they know GOOD from BAD in the depths of their heart. This would go some way to resolving the paradox, however it is evident that different people have different standards of Conscience, that what is called Conscience is actually something based on conditioning and on what a person knows. The author’s conscience, for example, compels him to practise Buddhism rather than Christianity or Islam. Some people’s conscience makes them vegetarians, others makes them want to join a monastery. Only if the ultimate edict of every human Conscience was “believe in the Christ” would we find in the notion of conscience anything close to a solution of the problem.

What Christian Soteriology cannot account for is that our free will is limited by the possibilities of the situation we are in. Our WILL is conditioned also, so one can only speak of LIMITED FREE WILL. For example if I am born in an Amazonian Tribe who have had no contact with the outside world, I cannot become a “Christian”, I have no concept of what Christianity or Jesus is. If I am born in a family which values academic achievement and I possess sufficient intelligence, it is likely that I will go to university, whereas for an Australian Aboriginal this would be much more unlikely. It is not that we have no choice whatsoever, but the choices we make are conditioned by the body and the environment we are in.

A further example (which will be controversial to some), would be the case of a homosexual. Evidently some people are born with homosexual tendencies, with little desire for the opposite sex and a lot for their own. Some say that there do not exist “homosexuals by nature” but we can say that such a belief is an obvious example of Rationalization, trying to fit the facts to a theory. Furthermore let’s say that this homosexual is raised in a culture where homosexuality isn’t taboo and which is generally non-religious, and that they have no particular inclination towards Christian devotion.

On the other hand, we have someone who is born straight. They are raised in a Christian household and surrounded by Christian people, hearing Christian apologetics. Not only that, but they have a natural inclination to Christian devotion.

We can say that in the Christian view the first person will almost certainly not be “saved” whilst the second person almost certainly will be “saved”. If we look at things from the perspective of the Eastern Religions it seems to make some sense. The first person is here to learn a Karmic lesson, the second person to learn a different Karmic lesson, each based on their past Karma. They each have LIMITED FREE WILL within the framework of their conditioning and understanding, both of them can either descend or ascend spiritually depending on the choices they make. Some people have very little spiritual understanding and so are almost guaranteed to descend because they won’t understand what the right choices are, but this lack of understanding is also Karmic, the result of past actions, and can be purified (by fire, if necessary).

This makes a lot more sense than the Christian doctrine, which only multiplies the unanswerable questions… Why does one person have an easy life and one a hard life? Why is one person subject to intense temptation while another has it easier? Why does one person die young and another old? What about those who die in accidents, or who are killed whilst being “unbelievers”? These questions are unanswerable because they suggest that God makes Salvation easy for some, and nearly impossible for others, the only response to them is “God is Incomprehensible”, which is an evasion.

Again in this case we find ourselves confronted with same paradoxical idea as in Predestination, that GOD LOVES SOME MORE THAN OTHERS. For there to be perfect JUSTICE in the framework of One Life followed by Eternal Heaven or Hell, there would have to be an even playing field, the same level of difficulties and opportunities for every BEING. As this is not the case, it is impossible to say of the Christian God, “DIVINITY IS PERFECT LOVE”.

LET’S BE MORE RADICAL...

Perhaps we can simply eliminate FREE WILL, become like the Buddhists and regard all life as effectively totally conditioned? This would lead us back to the DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION, to a total form of Predestination. Buddhism, of course, wants us to overcome this conditioning, whilst Christianity’s PREDESTINATION regards it as Just and Benevolent. Which is like saying that lack of freedom is a good thing, that we are born, live and die as slaves of our conditioning and that this is necessary and good. Such a doctrine would be pure Satanism.

Nonetheless, we might be getting somewhere with this if we dispense with certain Christian or Abrahamic concepts such as Eternal Salvation/Damnation, One Earthly Life, Substitutionary Atonement. Seeing life not as one life but as one in many lives, we can come to understand how our Conditioning exists to lead us back to the Unconditioned, our Slavery to lead us to Freedom. In this way it will become clear that all suffering is for a reason and that Divinity doesn’t Love one Being more than another. The second article in this series will attempt to demonstrate how DIVINE LOVE can manifest itself both in the Conditioned and Unconditioned, in Constraint and Freedom, in Suffering and Joy, in a manner which we can call (in the best way that language allows): PROVIDENCE.

BELIEFS SUBJECTED TO LOGIC

One hopes that by this point in the discussion we have arrived at a point where the absurdity of the Churches’ Doctrines are pretty clear. It’s difficult to be totally comprehensive in a short essay like this and not easy to communicate the ideas being expressed, still we hope you have grasped the fundamentals of what is trying to be said.

We have dealt with the notion of “Salvation By Faith Alone” and shown it to be unbalanced. We have looked at the notion of “Predestination” and found it to be cruel and biased. Finally we have shown that human beings do not have Absolute Free Will, the kind of Free Will which it would be necessary for everyone to have in order for the Christian doctrine to conform to logic.

MAY ALL BEINGS BE WELL, MAY ALL BEINGS BE HAPPY, MAY ALL BEINGS BE AT PEACE

https://socialgnosis.org
 
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TokiEl

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Because this division and conflict is what gets in the way of the INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY we need in order to resist the dark forces.
The saints who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ will be persecuted according to Jesus Christ.

So the dark forces are foretold by God in the Bible to overcome the saints... that is the people who obey the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That is what the Script says... and so interreligious unity is just a man made idea and initiative which will not be accomplished as long as there are saints on this earth. And that's why the saints must go i suppose...

The world has gone mad and the saints remind them of their madness every day. Why not silence the saints ? Good idea and that's exactly what they will do !
 
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DavidSon

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts shankara.

Your advice is well-meaning, but why is it necessary we achieve inter-religious unity? We are entitled to, as is said in the book of Micah, "our own vine and fig tree." World citizenship should be an essential goal while reserving the space to raise our children and worship our GOD as we please. I agree with co-operation and tolerance but we all draw a line somewhere.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the Abrahamic religions are traumatizing. They've descended only from the codes of older belief systems and they are basically, "nothing new under the sun." I have my own theories why Christianity is slowly declining: people just aren't feeling it. Part of the problem is that it's hard for common people to achieve an understanding of the theology. We see individuals wrestling with their faith that Jesus is God, He was born without the seed of a human father, that He died for our sins, etc. The level of faith is almost an unreachable bar, and it might push some to give up entirely.

Maybe you mean traumatized by the horrible example set by false Christians. Religious wars, the history of European conquest and colonization, is not an easy thing to reconcile. The institutionalized sexual abuse with the RCC is the most glaring today. From the slimy televangelists and zionists to murderers like Dick Cheney or the Clintons that claim Christianity... the hypocrisy of such an ugly, uninspired force who've stolen the name of God and the Nazarene Jesus Christ has left a sour taste in peoples mouth. The personality of so many fake Christians (especially within our own families) has done more to turn folks away than "the Devil."

I'm also unraveling the history of the Church- the Great Schism of 1054 and the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, grasping the divisions of the movement up to the present. I agree with your critique of the theology of the Reformation but I think you could take it deeper. The 5 solae were brought about within the philosophy (paradigm) of the time-period and intended to legitimize their break with Catholicism. You're focusing on the concepts of free-will and predestination but I don't believe they were ever critical tenets of either the Roman or Protestant Church. Calvin made a big deal about predestination but in Christianity today this is nothing compared to say, the concept of the Trinity. In the post-reformation age to the "awakenings" there were further evolution to the doctrines- you have to acknowledge that these subjects have been discussed for 500 years and elaborated on. In the hundreds of churches that sprung up, individuals worked through all the facets of the doctrines and settled on what they were comfortable with. I'm saying you have to consider all 2 billion Christians if you want to publish an encompassing analysis.

You're dropping the ball by attempting to meld the sin of homosexuals into any discussion of religions. They are, as Moses said, the "walking dead." Look it up, not one culture from Buddhist, Taoist, Zoroastrian, etc. has ever condoned such unnatural acts. "Sin" is an act against nature, against the Almighty. The Dalai Lama even discourages homosexuality lol. The only allowance I've ever heard is in Native American society, but these people lived apart from the main camps as healers/shamans.

In my opinion it can cause confusion attempting to blend the philosophy of all the religions. This stage of life is too short. People mention "karma" in a such a passing manner without realizing how instrumental the belief of reincarnation and levels of consciousness are to Hindu's. It's much more than a John Lennon song or "what goes around comes around." Karma and Dharma are irrelevant to the majority of western minds. I guess my advice is maybe think about each subject you're approaching individually, and who your audience is.

Just thought i'd share my POV. Selam Fakir (Peace and Love)!
 

shankara

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts shankara.

Your advice is well-meaning, but why is it necessary we achieve inter-religious unity? We are entitled to, as is said in the book of Micah, "our own vine and fig tree." World citizenship should be an essential goal while reserving the space to raise our children and worship our GOD as we please. I agree with co-operation and tolerance but we all draw a line somewhere.
I think it's very important that people reach the stage of comprehending how one thing can be understood in many different ways and still be one thing.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the Abrahamic religions are traumatizing. They've descended only from the codes of older belief systems and they are basically, "nothing new under the sun." I have my own theories why Christianity is slowly declining: people just aren't feeling it. Part of the problem is that it's hard for common people to achieve an understanding of the theology. We see individuals wrestling with their faith that Jesus is God, He was born without the seed of a human father, that He died for our sins, etc. The level of faith is almost an unreachable bar, and it might push some to give up entirely.
I don't know that it's necessarily so difficult to believe in the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection (at least for me personally) but when it's combined with absurd doctrines like Eternal Damnation... Buddhism is just a lot more LOGICAL.

Maybe you mean traumatized by the horrible example set by false Christians. Religious wars, the history of European conquest and colonization, is not an easy thing to reconcile. The institutionalized sexual abuse with the RCC is the most glaring today. From the slimy televangelists and zionists to murderers like Dick Cheney or the Clintons that claim Christianity... the hypocrisy of such an ugly, uninspired force who've stolen the name of God and the Nazarene Jesus Christ has left a sour taste in peoples mouth. The personality of so many fake Christians (especially within our own families) has done more to turn folks away than "the Devil."
That is basically what I mean, yes. But though I respect "Bible Believers" and sincere followers of the Christ, I think there is an esoteric ascpect of His doctrine which you aren't appreciating.

I'm also unraveling the history of the Church- the Great Schism of 1054 and the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, grasping the divisions of the movement up to the present. I agree with your critique of the theology of the Reformation but I think you could take it deeper. The 5 solae were brought about within the philosophy (paradigm) of the time-period and intended to legitimize their break with Catholicism. You're focusing on the concepts of free-will and predestination but I don't believe they were ever critical tenets of either the Roman or Protestant Church. Calvin made a big deal about predestination but in Christianity today this is nothing compared to say, the concept of the Trinity. In the post-reformation age to the "awakenings" there were further evolution to the doctrines- you have to acknowledge that these subjects have been discussed for 500 years and elaborated on. In the hundreds of churches that sprung up, individuals worked through all the facets of the doctrines and settled on what they were comfortable with. I'm saying you have to consider all 2 billion Christians if you want to publish an encompassing analysis.
Predestination is basically essential to the Protestant doctrine. It's an attempt to make a doctrine that doesn't make sense, make sense, though in the end it also doesn't make sense.

You're dropping the ball by attempting to meld the sin of homosexuals into any discussion of religions. They are, as Moses said, the "walking dead." Look it up, not one culture from Buddhist, Taoist, Zoroastrian, etc. has ever condoned such unnatural acts. "Sin" is an act against nature, against the Almighty. The Dalai Lama even discourages homosexuality lol. The only allowance I've ever heard is in Native American society, but these people lived apart from the main camps as healers/shamans.
I'm not condoning homosexuality. I'm simply saying that those people are that way for reasons of Karma, they aren't created by God simply to be sent to Hell.

In my opinion it can cause confusion attempting to blend the philosophy of all the religions. This stage of life is too short. People mention "karma" in a such a passing manner without realizing how instrumental the belief of reincarnation and levels of consciousness are to Hindu's. It's much more than a John Lennon song or "what goes around comes around." Karma and Dharma are irrelevant to the majority of western minds. I guess my advice is maybe think about each subject you're approaching individually, and who your audience is.
I believe absolutely in Rebirth, Transmigration, and am going to deal with that subject more thoroughly in my next article. Without Rebirth any doctrine is incoherent.

Just thought i'd share my POV. Selam Fakir (Peace and Love)!
Shantih.
 
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Works Vs faith is not about the accountability of sin and salvation.
It's about the path of right action Vs the path of non action.
When you have a username like 'shankara'
I would expect you to know what each path entails.

Right action is about making external effort to bring about internal change...and non action is the opposite.
In Islam both require balance eg like yin and yang.
In Christianity this is also the case...but the emphasis was moreso on faith in contrast to the Jewish emphasis of law/works at that particular time.
So if you're going to judge Christianity then it's important to judge it out of its intended context in that time and what it was trying to teach in contrast to why already existed.
 

shankara

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Works Vs faith is not about the accountability of sin and salvation.
It's about the path of right action Vs the path of non action.
When you have a username like 'shankara'
I would expect you to know what each path entails.

Right action is about making external effort to bring about internal change...and non action is the opposite.
In Islam both require balance eg like yin and yang.
In Christianity this is also the case...but the emphasis was moreso on faith in contrast to the Jewish emphasis of law/works at that particular time.
So if you're going to judge Christianity then it's important to judge it out of its intended context in that time and what it was trying to teach in contrast to why already existed.
I was talking specifically about the Lutheran/Protestant doctrine of SOLA FIDE.
 

phipps

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There are certain things taught in some Christian religions that are not biblical. That is one thing you've got to be aware of. We don't all base our teachings on the Bible as we should.


Justification by faith according to the Bible.

What is Justification? To justify means “to demonstrate or to prove to be just, right or valid; to declare free of blame; absolve; to free of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin.” Therefore, justification is a legal declaration of innocence. If you’re justified, you’re declared just.

According to the Bible, every human (except Jesus) who has ever lived has sinned and is guilty for crimes punishable by death. Romans 6:23. Therefore, to be justified by Christ means that the Lord declares us to be forgiven, untainted by the crimes we have committed against Him. One writer explains how justification really works. “Christ’s character stands in place of your character and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned.”

Christ's shed blood is the only atonement for our sins that is recognized by God for our salvation. This is justification by grace or faith. If you or I have accepted Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord and believe (faith) that He has died and risen for our sins, then by Faith we are justified.

The sinner (without Christ) will die for their sin because the wages of sin is death, and they have not accepted Christ's death in their behalf.

Also Justification is not something we can earn. It is a free gift from God. "being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," (Romans 3:24).

"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ...Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Romans 5:1,9).

We are reminded that having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, … much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

There is a lot more to this subject but we can't discuss it all in its entirety here.


Faith by works

You brought up faith by works, that is a long subject on its own too but the gist is when we first accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour we are in a passive acceptance state. We are saved or justified and safe to take to heaven. But that is just the beginning of our Christian life. Once we are Christians we demonstrate our faith by our works. James puts it this way in the Bible. "But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:20-21, 25-26).

When we read about people who had great faith in the Bible including Jesus, we know about their faith because of their works.

"Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? Then did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’" Matthew 25:34-40.


Predestination

Predestination is not biblical at all. God has definitely not chosen who will be saved and who won't. God is all knowing. He can't help that. So He knows what will happen before it does but that doesn't mean He wills it to happen. Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 2:4 that God, "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." And if only some are predestined to be saved, why would Jesus offer salvation to all? Why would Jesus bother to come from heavenly glory that is unimaginable to live on earth and die on the cross for all our sins if from the very beginning He predestined those who will be saved and who won't.


FREE WILL

Predestination and freewill cannot go hand in hand. If we are predestined to be saved then we have no choice in being saved and vice versa. This teaching isn't biblical. God has an all-knowing perspective. He knows whether you are going to be saved or lost, but this knowledge does not take away our free choice. We know this because of the many scripture passages that demonstrate ours and all created beings' freedom to choose.

The Bible tells us that Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways. God did not create sin, or an imperfect being. There was no reason for Lucifer to fall from his exalted position. However, God gives His creatures freedom of choice and Lucifer chose to rebel against God’s government and authority.

God could have made angels and people so that they could not sin, like he made the stars to remain in their orbital positions. But He made us free agents, not robots. Without this freedom, His creatures would not be able to truly love God, for then they would only be programmed to love Him. God wants love that comes from a willing heart. He is not a God of force. He gave freedom to choose whether to obey or disobey, to love or to hate. Lucifer chose to hate.

The story of the fall of humanity also shows the high value (and high price) that God gave to Adam and Eve when He let them choose whether to obey or disobey Him.
 
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shankara

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There are certain things taught in some Christian religions that are not biblical. That is one thing you've got to be aware of. We don't all base our teachings on the Bible as we should.
I pretty much agree with you that there's a lot in the Bible which isn't understood by the churches, but my interpretation is very different to yours. Of course what made it into the Bible itself wasn't everything that Christ taught. Have you read any of the Gnostic gospels like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Judas?
 

phipps

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I pretty much agree with you that there's a lot in the Bible which isn't understood by the churches, but my interpretation is very different to yours. Of course what made it into the Bible itself wasn't everything that Christ taught. Have you read any of the Gnostic gospels like the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Judas?
I disagree with what you said about the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that disagrees with Christ's teachings. The whole Bible is in unison. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Also Romans 15:4 says, "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope."

No I haven't read the Gospels of Thomas and Judas. They are not part of the Bible and the little I know about them, they contradict the Bible in some parts. Just like Gnosticism. So I stay away from them.
 
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My Kingdom Is Not Of This World” (CHRISTOS)

It is difficult to communicate through the fog of irrational superstitions in which many religious people unquestioningly believe. They have internalised the doctrines so much that to hear any criticism only makes them panic and start praying for the soul of the one who criticises the doctrine. Anyway, what is the point of such criticism? “Why can’t you just let them be, you big meanie?”, I hear some cry…

Simply because institutional Christianity (and Abrahamic religion in general) has traumatized people to the point where they are averse to any sort of spirituality. This is a great tragedy and a problem to be resolved.

Nonetheless, let’s be clear, we are not saying that Christianity is a bad thing, and even less that there is something personally wrong with Christians. Their spirituality is good, it is beautiful, many Christians are genuine devotees of Christ and possess great love for humanity. What we want is the perfection of the doctrine, the resolution of it’s logical inconsistencies, not for people to cease being devotees of Christ but for them to understand more clearly His message and thus to end the division and conflict between religions. Because this division and conflict is what gets in the way of the INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY we need in order to resist the dark forces.

To clarify, the first two sections deal mostly with Protestant doctrine while the section “FREE WILL” deals equally with Catholic dogma.

JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE (“SOLA FIDE”)

Both read the Bible day and night,
But you read black where I read white”


(WILLIAM BLAKE)

Before we can get anywhere with a criticism of Christianity, it is necessary to finish with this doctrine, as it makes a lot of necessary discussion impossible to hold. The doctrine of “SOLA FIDE” denies that any works which a person makes can actually lead to their salvation. It holds that there is such an impassible gulf between God and Humanity, due to Original Sin, that our WORKS are meaningless and it is only our FAITH in Christ (i.e. His Death and Resurrection) that can save us by the process of Substitutionary Atonement.

Of course when you begin with a notion so far removed from any normal earthly standard of justice - people being punished for the bad they do and rewarded for the good they do - it’s not really possible to discuss what JUSTICE is. So let’s have a look at some of the more evident logical fallacies of this doctrine.

To begin, however, on a positive note, we will say that there is some Reason behind the notion of SOLA FIDE, it isn’t completely crazy. For example, it is true that in this world there are people who make mighty material labours, for example they earn a great deal of money and give a lot of it to charity. If we take “WORKS” in this sense then indeed a person cannot be truly spiritually exalted solely by such methods. Spirituality is about what we are within, we can throw money at things and that won’t change what we are, furthermore giving lots of money without calling for reform in the structure which perpetuates inequality (for the benefit of the rich) is one-sided and perhaps even counter-productive.

Yet when we look a little more closely at the doctrine we start to find problems. Part of the problem comes from the total importance given to FAITH (which is not FAITH in the sense of CONSCIOUS FAITH but we will come to that later…). Those who accept SOLA FIDE believe that a person can spend their whole life doing all kinds of evil but so long as they “Repent” at the end they will be saved. The word “Repent” is in speechmarks not because we necessarily doubt the sincerity of these peoples’ repentance but because Repentance is a process and not a single act, though a single act may begin it. On the other hand, the SOLA FIDE doctrine considers a person who has spent their life devoted to the good to be Eternallly Damned unless they make the act of affirming the salvific power of the Death and Resurrection of the Christ (“confessing Christ”). To anyone not caught up in the bizarre internal logic of such an idea, this would seem deeply injust.

Repentance is a process, a process which involves striving to undo all the evil we have done and the ways in which it has spiritually disfigured us, striving to become good. It is a process which, according to Eastern Religious Traditions, may take many lives. Repentance may be with the help of the Christ, as the Catholics affirm, but it is not “freely given” by the Christ, we have to make efforts. If a person passes their life in total debauchery, then they will have to clear all the negative energies they have created, it is through doing this that they can attain a higher spiritual level.

Anyway, were repentance a single act, what standard would it have to meet to be accepted? Would repentance out of fear be permitted? Or would it have to be based upon perfect love? Assuming it’s the latter, no-one is so pure and holy to as act based upon perfect love, at least, to come to act based upon perfect love would be the fruit and not the seed of a process of repentance.

When we start to look at things in this light, with some sanity, we can see that the whole notion of JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE stands upon some very shaky logical foundations. It was, after all, effectively an invention of Martin Luther, who was a deeply troubled individual, unsure whether he was a doing the work of God or possessed by the Devil.

As already stated, the doctrine of SOLA FIDE basically boils down to the notion that humanity is so intrinsically evil that we cannot by any means save ourselves from (eternal) hellfire, only Jesus can save us by means of His Death on the Cross and His Resurrection. All of our good works mean nothing. That is one side of the doctrinal equation. On the other side, we are saved by the “free gift” of God’s grace.

We can clearly see in this doctrine the internal crisis Martin Luther was going through, the chaotic products of his disturbed and confused mind. SOLA FIDE at once reduces humanity to being something absolutely evil and at the same time inflates us to the point that we are worthy of salvation as a “free gift”. This notion is extremely, visibly, dualistic and unbalanced. Any sensible person knows that no human is irredeemably evil (only the Devil himself) and there are no free gifts at all (only life itself).

Of course, as in the Christian doctrine generally, no explanation is given of how we are responsible for this evil which was purportedly created by our ancestors rather than ourselves. How can a person be responsible for the sins of their parents? They can only inherit their tendencies. It is clear that this whole business about Adam and Eve must be symbolic, a parable for the descent of each Being into the complication and harshness of material existence. Our wickedness isn’t literally inherited.

Furthermore, how can we place our own sins upon someone else’s shoulders, even those of the CHRIST? A person can guide another but cannot take on all the results of another’s wrongdoing, everyone is responsible for their own salvation. If this were not the case then it would be possible to buy a place in Heaven, to pay someone else to be saved on your behalf (this notion, ‘Indulgences’, being exactly what provoked Luther’s Reformation). This is not to say that there is no forgiveness, but that forgiveness is the result of a continual and unceasing process of repentance, of turning around, of walking the spiritual path.

The Bible, the New Testament, is quite clear. The CHRIST says:

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

Bearing fruit is a question of manifesting what is within. If what is within us is good, decent, human, then we will bear good fruits. If what is in us is toxic, poisonous, cruel, then we will bear bad fruits. By making spiritual efforts we can become better, more decent, more human, therefore we will bear good fruit and we will not be “thrown into the fire”. This passage says nothing about another tree being cut down on our behalf.

What are these spiritual efforts? They consist of the aforementioned continual process of repentance, of abandoning sin and turning back towards divinity. They are bringing ourselves into harmony with Christ’s teachings. Prayer, meditation, worship, these are elements in this process. Just as importantly we need to act ethically, we don’t need to be fanatics but we should be to some extent ascetics, mystics. The mystic comes to understand God, to experience Him, and that sort of direct experience is the foundation of TRUE FAITH, CONSCIOUS FAITH.

In Galatians of the Apostle Paul it says:

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”

There is no “get out of jail free”, “God is not mocked”, there is only an example to follow - CHRIST the LOGOS. CHRIST enacted externally the internal drama of Rebellion and Ego-Death followed by Spiritual Resurrection, the drama which we all enact within ourselves as we walk the Spiritual Path. If we follow His example we will set ourselves free.

PREDESTINATION

The Christians’ justification for the seeming unfairness of their Soteriology is the DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION. This is to say that God has decided in advance who will be saved (and effectively, therefore, who will be damned). They consider that God is Incomprehensible to us, we cannot apply any standard of JUSTICE to Him, even if this standard of JUSTICE is arrived at by REASON (which is the part of man which is “the image of God”). It is by his “MERCY”, not any efforts we ourselves make, that He saves some humans from hell. There is no reason why He should have to, He does it by His own sweet will. Every human being is guilty by birth, by the mere fact of existing, and deserving of Eternal Punishment. No-one deserves to be saved but God saves some anyway.

In truth whoever invented this doctrine must not have had a lot of love for themselves or for humanity. When we understand that WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD (not just some of us), when we realize that GOD IS LOVE, it becomes clear that God would not want anyone to suffer. We may be imperfect, indeed to ascend spiritually we must rid ourselves of our imperfections, but we are not “EVIL” as such. PREDESTINATION is the belief that some souls are created better than others, more worthy than others. Some are created for heaven and some simply to be fuel for the fires of hell. Is God a tyrant who needs spirits to fuel hellfire, and thus creates people bound only to Eternal Suffering and with no choice whatsoever in the matter?

In passing, it is worth noting that the doctrine of the Catholic Church rejects both Sola Fide and absolute Predestination. Without going into much detail, however, we can say that it still isn’t by any means logically consistent, particularly in the matter dealt with in the next section...

FREE WILL

The doctrine of most Christian Churches is that PREDESTINATION exists simultaneously with FREE WILL. Being “saved” is a voluntary act, an act of FREE WILL. In fact the entire ABRAHAMIC edifice rests upon the notion of people having CHOICE, upon every person being able to choose between GOOD and BAD.

If we indeed had Total Free Will then this would make sense, if the situation was clear like we have to simply accept some particular voluntary suffering in order to go to Heaven. The Christians in fact deny this, they accept some voluntary asceticisms themselves but do not accept that non-Christians engaging in the same voluntary asceticisms would also arrive at Salvation. LIFE, anyway, is not so simple as a binary choice between two things, there are many choices, many shades in the ethical picture, what we are for GOOD or for BAD is complex and the struggle to be GOOD must be unceasing.

Still, were we all born with the same CONSCIENCE it would be possible to say that whatever situation a person is born into they know GOOD from BAD in the depths of their heart. This would go some way to resolving the paradox, however it is evident that different people have different standards of Conscience, that what is called Conscience is actually something based on conditioning and on what a person knows. The author’s conscience, for example, compels him to practise Buddhism rather than Christianity or Islam. Some people’s conscience makes them vegetarians, others makes them want to join a monastery. Only if the ultimate edict of every human Conscience was “believe in the Christ” would we find in the notion of conscience anything close to a solution of the problem.

What Christian Soteriology cannot account for is that our free will is limited by the possibilities of the situation we are in. Our WILL is conditioned also, so one can only speak of LIMITED FREE WILL. For example if I am born in an Amazonian Tribe who have had no contact with the outside world, I cannot become a “Christian”, I have no concept of what Christianity or Jesus is. If I am born in a family which values academic achievement and I possess sufficient intelligence, it is likely that I will go to university, whereas for an Australian Aboriginal this would be much more unlikely. It is not that we have no choice whatsoever, but the choices we make are conditioned by the body and the environment we are in.

A further example (which will be controversial to some), would be the case of a homosexual. Evidently some people are born with homosexual tendencies, with little desire for the opposite sex and a lot for their own. Some say that there do not exist “homosexuals by nature” but we can say that such a belief is an obvious example of Rationalization, trying to fit the facts to a theory. Furthermore let’s say that this homosexual is raised in a culture where homosexuality isn’t taboo and which is generally non-religious, and that they have no particular inclination towards Christian devotion.

On the other hand, we have someone who is born straight. They are raised in a Christian household and surrounded by Christian people, hearing Christian apologetics. Not only that, but they have a natural inclination to Christian devotion.

We can say that in the Christian view the first person will almost certainly not be “saved” whilst the second person almost certainly will be “saved”. If we look at things from the perspective of the Eastern Religions it seems to make some sense. The first person is here to learn a Karmic lesson, the second person to learn a different Karmic lesson, each based on their past Karma. They each have LIMITED FREE WILL within the framework of their conditioning and understanding, both of them can either descend or ascend spiritually depending on the choices they make. Some people have very little spiritual understanding and so are almost guaranteed to descend because they won’t understand what the right choices are, but this lack of understanding is also Karmic, the result of past actions, and can be purified (by fire, if necessary).

This makes a lot more sense than the Christian doctrine, which only multiplies the unanswerable questions… Why does one person have an easy life and one a hard life? Why is one person subject to intense temptation while another has it easier? Why does one person die young and another old? What about those who die in accidents, or who are killed whilst being “unbelievers”? These questions are unanswerable because they suggest that God makes Salvation easy for some, and nearly impossible for others, the only response to them is “God is Incomprehensible”, which is an evasion.

Again in this case we find ourselves confronted with same paradoxical idea as in Predestination, that GOD LOVES SOME MORE THAN OTHERS. For there to be perfect JUSTICE in the framework of One Life followed by Eternal Heaven or Hell, there would have to be an even playing field, the same level of difficulties and opportunities for every BEING. As this is not the case, it is impossible to say of the Christian God, “DIVINITY IS PERFECT LOVE”.

LET’S BE MORE RADICAL...

Perhaps we can simply eliminate FREE WILL, become like the Buddhists and regard all life as effectively totally conditioned? This would lead us back to the DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION, to a total form of Predestination. Buddhism, of course, wants us to overcome this conditioning, whilst Christianity’s PREDESTINATION regards it as Just and Benevolent. Which is like saying that lack of freedom is a good thing, that we are born, live and die as slaves of our conditioning and that this is necessary and good. Such a doctrine would be pure Satanism.

Nonetheless, we might be getting somewhere with this if we dispense with certain Christian or Abrahamic concepts such as Eternal Salvation/Damnation, One Earthly Life, Substitutionary Atonement. Seeing life not as one life but as one in many lives, we can come to understand how our Conditioning exists to lead us back to the Unconditioned, our Slavery to lead us to Freedom. In this way it will become clear that all suffering is for a reason and that Divinity doesn’t Love one Being more than another. The second article in this series will attempt to demonstrate how DIVINE LOVE can manifest itself both in the Conditioned and Unconditioned, in Constraint and Freedom, in Suffering and Joy, in a manner which we can call (in the best way that language allows): PROVIDENCE.

BELIEFS SUBJECTED TO LOGIC

One hopes that by this point in the discussion we have arrived at a point where the absurdity of the Churches’ Doctrines are pretty clear. It’s difficult to be totally comprehensive in a short essay like this and not easy to communicate the ideas being expressed, still we hope you have grasped the fundamentals of what is trying to be said.

We have dealt with the notion of “Salvation By Faith Alone” and shown it to be unbalanced. We have looked at the notion of “Predestination” and found it to be cruel and biased. Finally we have shown that human beings do not have Absolute Free Will, the kind of Free Will which it would be necessary for everyone to have in order for the Christian doctrine to conform to logic.

MAY ALL BEINGS BE WELL, MAY ALL BEINGS BE HAPPY, MAY ALL BEINGS BE AT PEACE

https://socialgnosis.org
Your post is Self absorbing and carnal reasoning. The visible Church is void of rebirth. When Christ said His kingdom was not of this world, he was speaking of the principles that it is ruled under. Therefor He came preaching the Gospel of the kingdom and it's principle and constitution are in Matthew Chapters 5-7)
 

TokiEl

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Repent and be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ and receive the gift of the Holy spirit who will teach you His truths.
 

DavidSon

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I disagree with what you said about the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that disagrees with Christ's teachings. The whole Bible is in unison. 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Also Romans 15:4 says, "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope."

No I haven't read the Gospels of Thomas and Judas. They are not part of the Bible and the little I know about them, they contradict the Bible in some parts. Just like Gnosticism. So I stay away from them.
You misread what he said: "...what made it into the Bible wasn't everything Christ taught."

"It is estimated that only a small fraction, less than 1 per cent, of ancient literature has survived to the present day. The role of Christian authorities in the active suppression and destruction of books in Late Antiquity has received surprisingly little sustained consideration by academics. In an approach that presents evidence for the role played by Christian institutions, writers and saints, this book analyses a broad range of literary and legal sources, some of which have hitherto been little studied. Paying special attention to the problem of which genres and book types were likely to be targeted, the author argues that in addition to heretical, magical, astrological and anti-Christian books, other less obviously subversive categories of literature were also vulnerable to destruction, censorship or suppression through prohibition of the copying of manuscripts. These include texts from materialistic philosophical traditions, texts which were to become the basis for modern philosophy and science. This book examines how Christian authorities, theologians and ideologues suppressed ancient texts and associated ideas at a time of fundamental transformation in the late classical world." - Dirk Rohmann

The fact is our Christology is based on what Imperial Rome allowed to be published.
 

phipps

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You misread what he said: "...what made it into the Bible wasn't everything Christ taught."

"It is estimated that only a small fraction, less than 1 per cent, of ancient literature has survived to the present day. The role of Christian authorities in the active suppression and destruction of books in Late Antiquity has received surprisingly little sustained consideration by academics. In an approach that presents evidence for the role played by Christian institutions, writers and saints, this book analyses a broad range of literary and legal sources, some of which have hitherto been little studied. Paying special attention to the problem of which genres and book types were likely to be targeted, the author argues that in addition to heretical, magical, astrological and anti-Christian books, other less obviously subversive categories of literature were also vulnerable to destruction, censorship or suppression through prohibition of the copying of manuscripts. These include texts from materialistic philosophical traditions, texts which were to become the basis for modern philosophy and science. This book examines how Christian authorities, theologians and ideologues suppressed ancient texts and associated ideas at a time of fundamental transformation in the late classical world." - Dirk Rohmann

The fact is our Christology is based on what Imperial Rome allowed to be published.
Oh, okay. Well the Bible has everything I need. I believe the Bible was put together by man through the Holy Spirit. So we don't need anything more to be saved.
 
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shankara

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Oh, okay. Well the Bible has everything I need. I believe the Bible was put together by man through the Holy Spirit. So we don't anything more to be saved.
I think it's like Davidson said, basically it's pretty clear that the ROMAN IMPERIUM had some influence on what made it into the Bible... Of course it would be very nice if it really were absolutely all we need and definitely there's a lot of wisdom in it. However to believe it is perfect strikes me as a little naive (which isn't the same thing as Faithful).

The Gnostic Gospels can give a lot of insight... Honestly I don't really understand what people's problem with Gnosticism is. Of course there were a lot of different groups which we now call "Gnostic" some of whom weren't so pure. But the original i.e. pre-Catholic church was the Gnostic church.
 

phipps

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I think it's like Davidson said, basically it's pretty clear that the ROMAN IMPERIUM had some influence on what made it into the Bible... Of course it would be very nice if it really were absolutely all we need and definitely there's a lot of wisdom in it. However to believe it is perfect strikes me as a little naive (which isn't the same thing as Faithful).

The Gnostic Gospels can give a lot of insight... Honestly I don't really understand what people's problem with Gnosticism is. Of course there were a lot of different groups which we now call "Gnostic" some of whom weren't so pure. But the original i.e. pre-Catholic church was the Gnostic church.
Gnosticism is not Bible based. I want to be Bible based.
 

shankara

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Gnosticism is not Bible based. I want to be Bible based.
Gnosticism doesn't deny the validity of the Four Gospels or Revelation. Nor is it necessarily saying that all of the Dead Sea Scrolls etc are legitimate. But we do understand the aforementioned influence of the ROMAN IMPERIUM on what went into the Bible... Personally I would say that the influence was pretty much in the negative, not including things which should have been included rather than including things which should not be included. So I'm not against people basing things on the Bible but I think it's a shame not to look beyond that one book...

EDIT: Also there were Christians before what we now know as the Bible existed...
 
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elsbet

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Because this division and conflict is what gets in the way of the INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY we need in order to resist the dark forces.
The dark forces want a Godless INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY-- so they actually create the division and conflict ---> the perversion that causes the demand for a Godless INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY.

Godless is the operative, here... and the dark forces are on the payroll.

Finally we have shown that human beings do not have Absolute Free Will, the kind of Free Will which it would be necessary for everyone to have in order for the Christian doctrine to conform to logic.

That's crap.
The SUPERNATURAL defies logic, by its very nature. It would be utterly illogical for it to coform to logic. Paradox.. wow. But all the good things are, of course.
 
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shankara

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The dark forces want a Godless INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY-- so they actually create the division and conflict ---> the perversion that causes the demand for a Godless INTERRELIGIOUS UNITY.

Godless is the operative, here... and the dark forces are on the payroll.
Well everything has a reflection, a shadow side. But UNITY, understanding that we are all worshipping the same thing in different ways, is generally better than it's opposite, DIVISION. Also, Buddhism is effectively Godless (ok, it's actually a little complicated) but is still a positive spiritual path.​

That's crap.
The SUPERNATURAL defies logic, by its very nature. It would be utterly illogical for it to coform to logic. Paradox.. wow. But all the good things are, of course.
I disagree. DIVINITY is REASON. We can have knowledge that Divinity exists by Reason, and we can have knowledge about the nature of Divinity by Reason. It is Reason that is "created in the image of God".
 
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