Abortion : The Otherside of the slippery slope

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#82
It's not a lie, it's an observed fact... they can't experience pain until around 24 weeks. Before that time, they cannot.
"Observed fact."

That's six months, and the statement is false. Even most of the Propaganda sites (to which you limit yourself) admit its sooner than that.
 





mecca

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#83
That's six months
Yep.
the statement is false
Nope.
the Propaganda sites (to which you limit yourself) admit its sooner
Lol, I don't view any propaganda websites and I didn't get my information from uncredible sources as you may have... I don't know what you're reading but my claims are based upon the available scientific evidence

The studies that have been conducted to determine the time frame that a fetus begins to feel pain have all reached similar conclusions that a fetus's brain is not developed enough to feel pain until around the beginning of the third trimester. There's no definitive way to pinpoint the exact moment that every single fetus will be able to feel pain, but all evidence has shown that the brain structures necessary to feel / perceive pain are only fully formed around 24 weeks of gestation, maybe even later, and they have not formed before that time. So around the 24 week mark at the earliest is when fetuses can feel pain... before that they are not able to.
Read this if you want: https://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal-pain-anesthesia.html

You should remember that your brain is the organ that registers the perception of pain... if your brain gets damaged or if it's not fully developed (like a fetus's brain), then you won't be able to feel or experience pain at all. And the brain is our body's most complex organ so it makes sense that it takes longer for it to fully develop as a fetus is growing. The cerebral cortex is only just beginning to start functioning by the time the fetus is ready to come out.

Regardless, abortions are performed within the first trimester at around 8 weeks, far before any of this brain development occurs... the first trimester is extremely early and the fetus is nowhere near being fully formed, it certainly cannot feel pain at that point.
 





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#84
It's not a lie, it's an observed fact... they can't experience pain until around 24 weeks. Before that time, they cannot.
That is not true.

Abby Johnson and others who have witnessed abortions have seen via ultrasound the so-called "clump of cells" move away from the canula, the vacuum. If the fetus wasn't a human embryo and didn't feel pain, it wouldn't move away from the canula or vacuum. It was just cancer cells being vacuumed out, that would be a different story. Cancer cells get taken out all of the time and no one bats an eye nor should they.

Watch an actual real abortion or read Abby Johnson's story and you may change your mind. You may not change your mind because of the hardness of your heart. But a fetus is a life in embryo form.

But since the original OP is about abortion in times of vicious war r*pe, I won't comment further. Just when I see people believing an obvious lie, I'm not going to stand idly by and not try to refute it.
 





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#85
That is not true.

Abby Johnson and others who have witnessed abortions have seen via ultrasound the so-called "clump of cells" move away from the canula, the vacuum. If the fetus wasn't a human embryo and didn't feel pain, it wouldn't move away from the canula or vacuum. It was just cancer cells being vacuumed out, that would be a different story. Cancer cells get taken out all of the time and no one bats an eye nor should they.

Watch an actual real abortion or read Abby Johnson's story and you may change your mind. You may not change your mind because of the hardness of your heart. But a fetus is a life in embryo form.

But since the original OP is about abortion in times of vicious war r*pe, I won't comment further. Just when I see people believing an obvious lie, I'm not going to stand idly by and not try to refute it.
The fetus can not feel any pain until after the 4th month. Most abortions are done prior to the 3rd month anyway except in cases of serious medical conditions. Anything before that is pressure or chemical reactions.
 





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#86
Fetus is not a human embryo. The fetal stage comes after the embryo one but even then they are just a clump of cells until a certain point. You might as well start advocating for sperm rights at this point.
 





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#87
The fetus can not feel any pain until after the 4th month. Most abortions are done prior to the 3rd month anyway except in cases of serious medical conditions. Anything before that is pressure or chemical reactions.
Keep believing that if you so choose, but I respectfully disagree.
 





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#88
Keep believing that if you so choose, but I respectfully disagree.
I find it mind boggling you know. Like how can a human, something with functioning brain, willingly choose to stay ignorant, throw around illiterate opinions and believe in people who say stuff without any proper evidence just because it falls in line with what they think.

I'm not choosing to believe in science, I'm choosing to not be a moron and that happens by believing in scientific facts.
 





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#89
Welcome to another episode of "I-have-neither-the-knowledge-not-the-education-about-what-i'm-talking-about-and-i-refuse-to-believe-people-who-do".

We might as well discuss the color of satan's hair since that seems to suit this audience.
 





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#90
https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-science-of-fetal-pain/

Fetal reactions provide evidence of pain response. The unborn baby reacts to noxious stimuli with avoidance reactions and stress responses. As early as 8 weeks the baby exhibits reflex movement during invasive procedures.[8] There is extensive evidence of a hormonal stress response by unborn babies as early as 18 weeks [9] including “increases in cortisol, beta-endorphin, and decreases in the pulsatility index of the fetal middle cerebral artery.”[10] Two independent studies in 2006 used brain scans of the sensory part of unborn babies’ brains, showing response to pain.[11] They found a “clear cortical response” and concluded there was “the potential for both higher-level pain processing and pain-induced plasticity in the human brain from a very early age.”
 





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#91
https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-science-of-fetal-pain/

Fetal reactions provide evidence of pain response. The unborn baby reacts to noxious stimuli with avoidance reactions and stress responses. As early as 8 weeks the baby exhibits reflex movement during invasive procedures.[8] There is extensive evidence of a hormonal stress response by unborn babies as early as 18 weeks [9] including “increases in cortisol, beta-endorphin, and decreases in the pulsatility index of the fetal middle cerebral artery.”[10] Two independent studies in 2006 used brain scans of the sensory part of unborn babies’ brains, showing response to pain.[11] They found a “clear cortical response” and concluded there was “the potential for both higher-level pain processing and pain-induced plasticity in the human brain from a very early age.”
This entire article says literally what both mecca and I have said. 20th week IS the 4th month. What you quoted talks about hormonal response which I already said that "Anything prior is chemical reactions". And that is exactly what hormones are, CHEMICALS.
You don't feel pain via hormones, you feel pain through pain receptors that are not developed at this stage as the brain isn't developed yet.
At no point does the article mention pain prior to 20th week infact it goes as far as to talk about the 36th week lol.

Imagine posting an article to prove your point only to cuck yourself.
 





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#92
Th
What church of mine are ya talking about?

I can still tell people abortion is wrong just like you feel the need to support abortion. I don’t see where my personal belief in God makes me unqualified to have an opinion about this.
The Christian Church @Lisa again no need to play dense
 





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#93
I don’t see the difference. You’re trying to talk about why my opinion is irrelevant and I mentioned why you think you’re opinion matters more..
If you truly don’t see the difference then you have bigger problems than I thought. But I know that’s not the case.

Leave my personal life out of it. My opinions preexisted my own life and are based on tons of things - religion, philosophy, science, sociology, common sense. You have enough there with out personal attacks.
 





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#94
It's irrelevant to what I was talking about... Why don't you stop trying to change the subject?
I think it’s relevant, if islam doesn’t do abortions, one wonders why you are arguing for them?
 





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#95
Th


The Christian Church @Lisa again no need to play dense
Seriously, I have no idea what “church” you’re talking about. The Christian church is too broad because anyone can call themselves a Christian, doesn’t make them one. You’ll have to narrow that down for me to be able to comment on it.
 





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#96
If you truly don’t see the difference then you have bigger problems than I thought. But I know that’s not the case.

Leave my personal life out of it. My opinions preexisted my own life and are based on tons of things - religion, philosophy, science, sociology, common sense. You have enough there with out personal attacks.
Then why do you act like your opinions trump mine?
 





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#97
Fetus is not a human embryo. The fetal stage comes after the embryo one but even then they are just a clump of cells until a certain point. You might as well start advocating for sperm rights at this point.
An egg or a sperm by themselves are just cells but when they meet up a powerful thing happens, new life, new human life. Right away those cells start to work on growing a baby, that is what those cells were made to do when they come together. What makes you think you can comment on this topic when you can’t even get that right?
 





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#98
Then why do you act like your opinions trump mine?
I don’t. I “act” like they differ. Which they clearly do. And clearly I’m going to think mine is right and yours is wrong. That’s human instinct. However, my opinion is based on tons of facts and research while your is based on a book written thousands of years ago which doesn’t even mention the topic and some sort of emotional reaction. So yeah I truly believe my opinion trumps yours.

But regardless we don’t live in a theocracy so you can’t actually force yours on anyone. Thank goodness. The main difference being I have no desire to force my opinion on anyone, if you don’t agree - cool, do you, have 100 babies I don’t care- but let others do them as well.
 





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#99
I don’t. I “act” like they differ. Which they clearly do. And clearly I’m going to think mine is right and yours is wrong. That’s human instinct. However, my opinion is based on tons of facts and research while your is based on a book written thousands of years ago which doesn’t even mention the topic and some sort of emotional reaction. So yeah I truly believe my opinion trumps yours.

But regardless we don’t live in a theocracy so you can’t actually force yours on anyone. Thank goodness. The main difference being I have no desire to force my opinion on anyone, if you don’t agree - cool, do you, have 100 babies I don’t care- but let others do them as well.
No you act like yours is superior especially when you told me my opinion was irrelevant.
Well you kinda want to force your opinion on everyone...you think your opinion is best and people who disagree are irrelevant. You want me to have no voice here because I want the baby to live.

I don’t have to have 100 babies to want the babies to live. I think the babies should have a voice advocating for them to be able to be born and live. I don’t see what is so horribly terrible about that.
 





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You were off topic to the op, therefore irrelevant. Not because I’m superior but because you literally said nothing about the actual thread topic until pages in. Had you said “war r*pe is terrible but I don’t think abortion is ok even in this circumstance” you would have been on topic but u didn’t. U completely skipped over the whole war r*pe thing to rant about abortion in general.

There’s nothing terrible about advocating your position. However, forcing your opinion on others is. I’m not forcing anyone to go get an abortion or telling them they should. All I’m saying is that no matter what choice a woman decides she deserves understanding and empathy and she most definately deserves the ability to make that decision herself. Im not trying to force anyone to do anything, im trying to prevent that. Im not sure u are capable of understanding the difference.

If you don’t agree with abortion, don’t have one. End of. Why people like you feel the need to impose your own beliefs on others I will never understand. We do not live in a theocracy.

I’m sure Lisa that you personally wanted to be a mom since you were a toddler craddling your first baby doll. It was probably your greatest hope and dream for your life. I’m willing to bet that you struggled to become one so the opposite end of the spectrum is so completely foreign and inconceivable to you that you can’t even wrap your mind around it.

But the ability to empathize doesn’t mean being able to personally understand. It means being able to imagine walking in someone else’s shoes and feeling their pain. I get where both sides are coming from. I’ve been in both shoes so to speak and the shoes I haven’t been in I’ve watched people I love truly walk in themselves. Everyone has to make their own path and the entire situation is so complicated and individual no one can say what’s right for someone else. Yet, you want to. Mind boggling.

You can’t even presume to know what’s best for the fetus/baby. I’ve seen horrifically abuses and neglected children, children lingering for years in care with no families because no one wanted to adopt them etc etc.. if you’ve never experienced true hardship, which it’s clear you have not, you just can’t fathom. Maybe a get in free ticket to heaven would have been a way better option.