Abortion : The Otherside of the slippery slope

Red Sky at Morning

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The religion revolves around the lives and experiences of that specific small group of people because it’s their religion and they created it. Their religion is based on their personal stories, culture, traditions, and beliefs which is why their God is specifically focused on them as a group and why he’s invested in their culture and society. The Gods of other religions are focused on other groups, locations, and cultures because they arose as a part of those different people’s societies.
Reflecting on this, it occurred to me that before there was ever a nation of Israel, there was the faith of Abraham. Spanning the centuries, these words are very revealing:-

John 8:56-59 King James Version (KJV)

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Millennia later, it is quite amazing to hear an account of the gospel (which is for the whole world) preached from Psalm 89 to an Orthodox rabbi by one who had come to know who the real Messiah, (the one that caused Abraham to rejoice) IS.

 
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Lisa

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The religion revolves around the lives and experiences of that specific small group of people because it’s their religion and they created it. Their religion is based on their personal stories, culture, traditions, and beliefs which is why their God is specifically focused on them as a group and why he’s invested in their culture and society. The Gods of other religions are focused on other groups, locations, and cultures because they arose as a part of those different people’s societies.
Why not just create a God who likes you better and not hold you to standards you can’t hope to attain? That really doesn’t make any sense...Plus, this God of theirs was so real it scared the crap out of the people around them..
 

justjess

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Humans never made gods that liked them better. Look at all the screwed up stuff the Greek Gods did to the Greeks. The Roman gods to the Romans etc..

Humans use god to explain what they don’t understand.
 

Lisa

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Humans never made gods that liked them better. Look at all the screwed up stuff the Greek Gods did to the Greeks. The Roman gods to the Romans etc..

Humans use god to explain what they don’t understand.
Plus, this God of theirs was so real He scared the crap out of the people around them..
 
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Lisa

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Fear is a tool of religion that makes people easier to control.
Lol! The people that were afraid of Israel’s God had their own God’s but knew Israel’s God was real and were afraid of Him. If He weren’t really doing things that can to pass and usually against them, I’m sure they wouldn’t have cared about that God..
 
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If they were in charge of creating their own religion, I’m sure they wouldn’t have created a god who got angry with them and punished them. Who would have let them stay on the land he gave them and let them rule the world..but the God that is their God has gotten angry with them, called them harlots when they went after other god’s, which they did a lot. He even punished them by letting them get taken out of their land and roam the world..I’d create an easier God to get along with.
They created God as an angry punisher as a means of societal control.

Why not just create a God who likes you better and not hold you to standards you can’t hope to attain? That really doesn’t make any sense...Plus, this God of theirs was so real it scared the crap out of the people around them..
Again an angry God who punished disobedience makes it an ideal control mechanism.

No actually. Virtually none of the surrounding nations even mention the Hebrews, and when they do the Israelites usually lose. No one was afraid of their God outside of what the Bible says, which is not an accurate historical record.
 

Lisa

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Who is they?
created God as an angry punisher as a means of societal control.
It didn’t work very well since they still went rogue more times than not..even many of their leaders had a hand in them going rogue, following other gods, living like the people’s around them..

No one was afraid of their God outside of what the Bible says, which is not an accurate historical record.
Why isn’t it an accurate historical record? Were you around back then so you know?
 

justjess

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Who is they?

It didn’t work very well since they still went rogue more times than not..even many of their leaders had a hand in them going rogue, following other gods, living like the people’s around them..


Why isn’t it an accurate historical record? Were you around back then so you know?
Were you? Do you have any independent writings of these other civilizations stating they feared Israel’s god?
 
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Who is they?

It didn’t work very well since they still went rogue more times than not..even many of their leaders had a hand in them going rogue, following other gods, living like the people’s around them..


Why isn’t it an accurate historical record? Were you around back then so you know?
1. The Ancient Hebrews.

2. Those are stories to the people to demonstrate the cost of disobedience, not literal facts.

3. There is no historical evidence for The Exodus( or Jews ever being in Egypt), for the destruction of cities by Joshua or the extent of the Kingdom of David and that’s just a few. As justjess asked, can you give a single account for neighboring peoples fearing the Hebrew God? No you can’t, and on the rare instances that outside people came in contact with them, they were conquered.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
 

Lisa

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I can't say I am much of an expert on Spinoza's thoughts about God, but from what I know in the end he may have a more accurate concept of God than orthodox Christianity. Paul wrote what I believe is concept that is foreign to most Christians

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Most Christians believe that we are going to remian individual entities for all eternity. But I suspect that Paul might be hinting at something else here. The "eternal" life that Christians think of is in the greek more accurately translated as the life of the ages. An age or eon is a finite period of time. Time is part of creation, not eternity. Time will cease to exist at some point.

According to the passage above written by Paul in the ages to come every man is his own order shall be made alive. But eventually in the ages to come every power authority and rule will be put down and death will be destroyed. (How can death by destroyed if even one single person from history is not alive in Christ?). Once this is all done and all things are put under the rule of Christ, Christ himself will be subjected to God so that "God may be all in all". Is Paul hinting here that everything will return to God and will we no longer exist as seperate distinct entities for eternit? Will we all just be absorbed back into the substance of God himself? Paul also wrote "it is I that no longer live but Christ that lives within me". The ultimate expression of that is that none of us will exist for "eternity" as distinct individuals but we will all return to the substance of God himself.

Just some thoughts...nothing I've worked out to any absolute conclusions yet.

“There is a descent from God through the world to animals, and an ascent from animals through the world to God. He is the highest point of the scale, pure act and active power, the purest light.”
Giordano Bruno
 

Lisa

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Were you? Do you have any independent writings of these other civilizations stating they feared Israel’s god?
I wasn’t around then, but I’ve read the book by the God who was, a God btw who doesn’t lie.
 

Lisa

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1. The Ancient Hebrews.

2. Those are stories to the people to demonstrate the cost of disobedience, not literal facts.

3. There is no historical evidence for The Exodus( or Jews ever being in Egypt), for the destruction of cities by Joshua or the extent of the Kingdom of David and that’s just a few. As justjess asked, can you give a single account for neighboring peoples fearing the Hebrew God? No you can’t, and on the rare instances that outside people came in contact with them, they were conquered.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html
Sometimes they were conquered and sometimes they conquered, depending on how their relationship with God was going.

I don’t need an independent book telling me what I’ve already read in the Bible..and how many books could there be from that time period anyway? Makes me think about that private library at the Vatican..wonder what kind of books they have?

How do you know they aren’t literal facts? Just because you don’t like or believe the Bible doesn’t make it false.

How do you know it’s the ancient Hebrews? Do you read a book from that time period or something?
 
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Sometimes they were conquered and sometimes they conquered, depending on how their relationship with God was going.

I don’t need an independent book telling me what I’ve already read in the Bible..and how many books could there be from that time period anyway? Makes me think about that private library at the Vatican..wonder what kind of books they have?

How do you know they aren’t literal facts? Just because you don’t like or believe the Bible doesn’t make it false.

How do you know it’s the ancient Hebrews? Do you read a book from that time period or something?
Whenever they were contacted by an outside people’s that is corroborated outside of the Bible, they lost.

We aren’t just talking about books, there isn’t a shred of archaeological evidence that they were in Egypt, that they destroyed the cities they claimed or the extent of the kingdom. None Lisa.

And just because you worship the Bible doesn’t mean it’s true.
 

elsbet

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Fear is a tool of religion that makes people easier to control.
Fear is a tool of every form of power in the world that seeks control-- nothing new.

So you believe the experience was manufactured by the people to frighten others? Or that God is inherently greedy and controlling? Or that ancient texts are false? Not following the generic comment's meaning, here.
 

Lisa

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Why are there no writings from other surrounding civilizations of the time indicating this supposed terror of the god of Israel?
Are there any writings from that time besides the Bible?
 

Lisa

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Whenever they were contacted by an outside people’s that is corroborated outside of the Bible, they lost.

We aren’t just talking about books, there isn’t a shred of archaeological evidence that they were in Egypt, that they destroyed the cities they claimed or the extent of the kingdom. None Lisa.

And just because you worship the Bible doesn’t mean it’s true.
Lol..wonder why?

What books are from that time period besides the Bible, Colonel?

Well...about that...the Bible is true whether someone believes it is or not.
 
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