Abortion - The End of the Slippery Slope

elsbet

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Profitable? It’s illegal to be paid to give your child up for adoption... what are you talking about?

Micro vs macro, it is possible something is difficult/sad for an individual (the actual abortion) and also good for women’s rights (the ability to have that abortion)
Ah, of course-- as the lawyers say, then: "living expenses... and much more."

Win-win.

I disagree, though, on the late-term, third trimester legality of abortion. While I don't think the government should dictate *anything* a person can and cannot do, with or to, their own person, I think physicians should barred from performing"late term" infanticide. There are very rare (very tragic) medical situations that may warrant personal consideration of abortion-- even though it may not be deemed "medically necessary" from an ethical standpoint-- and those should, by all means, be considered on a case by case basis. Convenience is not one of them.
 

justjess

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Ah, of course-- as the lawyers say, then: "living expenses... and much more."

Win-win.

I disagree, though, on the late-term, third trimester legality of abortion. While I don't think the government should dictate *anything* a person can and cannot do, with or to, their own person, I think physicians should barred from performing"late term" infanticide. There are very rare (very tragic) medical situations that may warrant personal consideration of abortion-- even though it may not be deemed "medically necessary" from an ethical standpoint-- and those should, by all means, be considered on a case by case basis. Convenience is not one of them.
Convenience is still illegal... so basically what you just said is actually what the ny law says
 

elsbet

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Convenience is still illegal... so basically what you just said is actually what the ny law says
Only in theory... the doctor's subjective opinion determines the legality.

Sidenote on the procedure to rid a woman of (what will be) a 'stillborn'... that is not an abortion. That it even made it into the language of the bill is absurd.
 

justjess

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The N.Y. law is literally just codifying row v wade into state law as a preemptive protective measure in the event the feds start walking it back.. that’s why I truly don’t understand the hysteria at this point.

And it is technically an abortion as it is an unnatural ending to the pregnancy. Even if common sense says otherwise.
 
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Maybe because everything you have stated here is an appeal to people's emotions. You are the definition of a hack.
Not sure if the definition of a hack applies here, but I agree with the first part. Tried appealing to pro-choicers' senses and reason in the past but arguments from passion seem to be the only ones at their processing level nowadays.

If you don't have any trouble processing the more philosophical arguments however, I'd be happy to give you a shot.
 
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The GOD of Artful Deceiver steals dark skinned brothers and sisters to sell to white parents for a spiritual war

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia/

https://www.salon.com/2013/05/04/how_the_christian_right_perverts_adoption/

https://www.damemagazine.com/2018/10/01/are-evangelical-adoption-agencies-stealing-children/

This is your God on full Display in the poisonous rhetoric of a cowardly demagogue like Artful Deceiver.

You are the rat in the floor board of the universe.

black-cat-outside.jpg
 

DavidSon

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Extreme how?
I wasn't referring to your personal feelings, more so your take on the political aspect. If it came down to one vote anywhere I lived yes, I would vote against legalized abortion. But I don't see this debate dismantling the democratic party.

To me this is kind of like the discussion over Sharia law- do you impose the same laws on foreigners? The US may have religious elements but its core was, is, and always will be about global economic domination. Washington and crew were not Christians. Maybe it's where I've traveled in the US but I see the the majority of women want free choice. As demonic as the act is, they say it's about control over their body. Even if the supreme court overturns RVW I think it ends up in the states hand and the majority will allow it.

If Americans claim to be pro-life, how did a human slave trade exist? They're guilty of hundreds of illicit military operations, interventionism, destabilizing other countries over 250 years. What about right to life in Syria or Libya? I blame democrats as much as republicans for the untold # of deaths and destruction they paved the way for. For me the issue of wealth inequality is right on par with legal abortion.

Overall there's good ideas in this thread. I've driven by planned parenthood clinics with parking lots filled to the brim! It's disgusting. We need the opposite approach to provide counseling or monetary assistance. I hope every woman can get the facts about the rates of depression, etc. following such a despicable act before they choose.
 
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The N.Y. law is literally just codifying row v wade into state law as a preemptive protective measure in the event the feds start walking it back.. that’s why I truly don’t understand the hysteria at this point.

And it is technically an abortion as it is an unnatural ending to the pregnancy. Even if common sense says otherwise.
The New York Reproductive Health Act is not a copy of Roe v Wade. The NY law decriminalizes abortion after 24-weeks pregnancy and the abortion no longer needs to be performed by a licensed physician. Any medical professional, like a nurse or an obstetrician, is now allowed to perform the abortion.

It also declares abortion a fundamental right that must not be denied to anyone seeking it:

The legislature finds that comprehensive reproductive health care is a fundamental component of every individual's health, privacy and equality. Therefore, it is the policy of the state that:

1. Every individual has the fundamental right to choose or refuse contraception or sterilization.

2. Every individual who becomes pregnant has the fundamental right to choose to carry the pregnancy to term, to give birth to a child, or to have an abortion, pursuant to this article.

3. The state shall not discriminate against, deny, or interfere with the exercise of the rights set forth in this section in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services or information.

It's not a wild guess to predict that it won't be long before this law is used against health care providers who refuse to perform an abortion. By now one should be aware of what consequences little tweaks, additions, removals and abstract terms like "health" (not just mental health) and "right" (the glitch of progressivism) in legislature can have on society.
 
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Joined
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The GOD of Artful Deceiver steals dark skinned brothers and sisters to sell to white parents for a spiritual war

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia/

https://www.salon.com/2013/05/04/how_the_christian_right_perverts_adoption/

https://www.damemagazine.com/2018/10/01/are-evangelical-adoption-agencies-stealing-children/

This is your God on full Display in the poisonous rhetoric of a cowardly demagogue like Artful Deceiver.

You are the rat in the floor board of the universe.

View attachment 19319
Sigh. It took only two posts to remember why I hadn't posted in over a year ...

What is the point of your post? Is this your idea of a non-emotional philosophical argument about abortion?
 
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I wasn't referring to your personal feelings, more so your take on the political aspect. If it came down to one vote anywhere I lived yes, I would vote against legalized abortion. But I don't see this debate dismantling the democratic party.
Ah yes, I admit I didn't give any prelude to my conclusion which might come across as confusing. To me this isn't just a drop in the bucket of a debate that has been going on for over half a century. It's more an accumulation of things that have happened ever since the new POTUS got elected that have continuously added to the unmasking of establishment machinations and the liberation of many from it. The polarisation between the people in favour of and against the New World Order is becoming more and more concrete.

It's as if Trump's presidency awakened in some progressives a dormant virus that had been groomed by decades of gradually increasingly blatant propaganda, that it produced an epidemy of hysteria supplanting the last vestiges of reason and unmasking the true ambitions of the Wicked One and his minions. Reason and virtue have been hijacked by ideology and a visceral transgenerational hatred for everything that pertains to the past of our civilization, interpreting Trump's election as the canary in the coal mine of an impending reversal of a decades long progressive agenda, that some people, backed by the large majority of deep state institutions such as the mainstream media, feel incited to accelerate the progressive (ie. the NWO) cause and try to push the boundaries more quickly and greatly than ever before.

Where they see a manifestation of collective outrage against injustice, I see a panicky Wicked One going all-in scared to death that the liberated Man is going to call his bluff.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Haley Responds to Pelosi’s Climate Committee: Does Protecting God’s Creation Include Babies?


Former US ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley (left) and Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (right) (Kevin Hagen / AP Photo; J. Scott Applewhite / AP Photo)

Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley questioned whether House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s commitment to protecting God’s creation extended to include babies.

On Thursday, Pelosi tweeted, “We have a moral responsibility to protect God’s creation for generations to come. That is why today, we named members to the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis. #ActOnClimate.”

Haley replied, “Does God’s creation not include protecting babies as well Madame Speaker? A committee on that issue would be welcome.”
 
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Sigh. It took only two posts to remember why I hadn't posted in over a year ...

What is the point of your post? Is this your idea of a non-emotional philosophical argument about abortion?
The facts about this law have been presented, of course you ignored those. Everything you wrote was a hysterical lie. So don’t post again for a year we were getting along fine without you. Crawl back to wherever you came from.

I showed what your Duce does to children, while you go on breathless rants about infanticide.
 
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elsbet

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Ah yes, I admit I didn't give any prelude to my conclusion which might come across as confusing. To me this isn't just a drop in the bucket of a debate that has been going on for over half a century. It's more an accumulation of things that have happened ever since the new POTUS got elected that have continuously added to the unmasking of establishment machinations and the liberation of many from it. The polarisation between the people in favour of and against the New World Order is becoming more and more concrete.

It's as if Trump's presidency awakened in some progressives a dormant virus that had been groomed by decades of gradually increasingly blatant propaganda, that it produced an epidemy of hysteria supplanting the last vestiges of reason and unmasking the true ambitions of the Wicked One and his minions. Reason and virtue have been hijacked by ideology and a visceral transgenerational hatred for everything that pertains to the past of our civilization, interpreting Trump's election as the canary in the coal mine of an impending reversal of a decades long progressive agenda, that some people, backed by the large majority of deep state institutions such as the mainstream media, feel incited to accelerate the progressive (ie. the NWO) cause and try to push the boundaries more quickly and greatly than ever before.

Where they see a manifestation of collective outrage against injustice, I see a panicky Wicked One going all-in scared to death that the liberated Man is going to call his bluff.

Slouching toward Gomorrah-- Judge Robert Bork's look at the history, causes and realities of modern liberalism... which bears little (if any) resemblance to classical liberalism (the banner under which most conservatives fall today). Its right up your alley. :)

He covers the advent of the toxic PC Culture coming out of the universities in the late 80s and early 90s (and the repercussions for those who refused to comply), and its genesis in the (late 50s and) early 60s. Beatniks, the Weathermen, etc... all of which is based on theory, rather than practical knowledge. Obviously.
 
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F11EA5B6-6EBE-42CF-9B88-A42216D59AB2.jpeg
Same playboook as a misogynist-Witchcraft article from 1918.

To recap for Artful Deceiver.

“Late Term” abortions are exceedingly rare, are only done out of necessity and not “convenience”. The VA law failed because it went too far. These are the facts of the situation.

In a way I wish NY would have waited until after 2020 as we are going to hear a constant barrage of infanticide rhetoric, and fundamentalists are the easiest manipulated voting bloc. This could get them out to vote in droves.
 

justjess

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The New York Reproductive Health Act is not a copy of Roe v Wade. The NY law decriminalizes abortion after 24-weeks pregnancy and the abortion no longer needs to be performed by a licensed physician. Any medical professional, like a nurse or an obstetrician, is now allowed to perform the abortion.

It also declares abortion a fundamental right that must not be denied to anyone seeking it:



It's not a wild guess to predict that it won't be long before this law is used against health care providers who refuse to perform an abortion. By now one should be aware of what consequences little tweaks, additions, removals and abstract terms like "health" (not just mental health) and "right" (the glitch of progressivism) in legislature can have on society.
Your wrong roe v Wade allowed abortion past viability to protect the life or health of the mother. Same language.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/113.html

2685AE53-4A05-41FA-BC5F-70FC103C8E35.png2685AE53-4A05-41FA-BC5F-70FC103C8E35.png
 
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The facts about this law have been presented, of course you ignored those. Everything you wrote was a hysterical lie. So don’t post again for a year we were getting along fine without you. Crawl back to wherever you came from.

I showed what your Duce does to children, while you go on breathless rants about infanticide.
Adopting children bad, killing babies good? Is that how we're supposed to summarize your view?

And do we have a history here? You seem excessively triggered.
 
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Adopting children bad, killing babies good? Is that how we're supposed to summarize your view?

And do we have a history here? You seem excessively triggered.
Those aren’t adoptions they are child thefts.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2019/02/report-missing-migrant-children-being-funneled-through-christian-adoption-agency/

You were completely wrong about the bill as has been shown, you were wrong about Roe as well. I’m just fine but I will treat you as the demagogue you are.
 
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