Abortion - The End of the Slippery Slope

justjess

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* It is possible that I am miscalculating the EXACT weeks & days and that the baby was (+/-) a couple of weeks older due to the 2 weeks accounted for between conception and discovering the first missed period. I DO know she was 5 months pregnant though, (4 weeks per month X 5 months =20 weeks is why I gave that figure) and the baby weighed barely over one pound.
The baby’s survival is still a miracle, and the doctors told her he would never survive.

She was poor, so yes, she was on Medicaid.

But I would MUCH rather see my tax $ pay for the medical bills to save a baby’s life than to destroy it.
5 months would have put her more at 24-26 weeks and an abortion still would have been prohibited unless a danger to her life.. maybe she was 23 and a couple days making it still legal idk. I’m happy it worked out for her, truly. I can imagine how devastating it would have been to have had to end a wanted pregnancy and been diagnosed with cancer all at the same time.

But most people who vote pro life are not okay with Medicaid at all, they are not okay helping with others medical expenses etc.

How do you justify voting for people who would ask sure that kind of medical intervention was not available for any but the richest?
 

justjess

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She was sexually abused as a child, she always was and is sane, depression isn't a serious mental disorder im my eyes.
People who are sexually abused act out sexually quite frequently... your opinion that this isn’t a serious mental concern is irrelevant - it is. PTSD, depression, anxiety, attachment issues.. all very real and devastating.

You can’t blame her current diminished mental state on the abortions when she already had a diminished mental state to begin with.
 

justjess

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What does any of the above have to do with your argument?

She had TEN abortions because she was acting out sexually because she was molested, you are blaming her current mental health issues on the abortions on one hand and then denying she even has any on the other.
 

Vytas

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What does any of the above have to do with your argument?

She had TEN abortions because she was acting out sexually because she was molested, you are blaming her current mental health issues on the abortions on one hand and then denying she even has any on the other.
Im not the one who is asuming her unlucky childhood has anything to do with decision murder a child...anyways deleting post above and gone to work...
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Im not the one who is asuming her unlucky childhood has anything to do with decision murder a child...anyways deleting post above and gone to work...
Unfortunately I have found that there is a time to share the truth and a time to leave those who don't care for it alone...
 

justjess

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What truth? He said she was experiencing all these mental health issues, blamed it on the ten abortions she has had.

I argue that she probably already had the mental issues because it is not normal in any way to have ten abortions and the little complication of the fact she was sexually abused as a child comes out.

What truth exactly do you think I ignored?
 

TempestOfTempo

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I do not believe it is possible to be pro-choice and truly care about children. Set aside the less than 1% who complain of health issues. That small percentage is not a valid reason to murder 60,000,000 babies. I could not look my children in the eyes while standing for a woman’s right to murder her own child. There is no other way around that. It is self-deception to say one is for children while also not defending them at every stage.

Children recognize the horror of abortion AT EVERY STAGE, and there is a reason they see it so clearly. Adults are the ones who harden their hearts and deceive themselves and others. We all know it is murder.
I agree with your sentiments, but dont underestimate the indoctrination levels that generations have now been raised under the yoke of. Some actually feel the are advocating for children via abortion. Im willing to engage with those people because even if their actions are sinful, they are misguided with a heart still in the right place. But there are parties on both the pro life/choice sides who utilize this conflict for their own motives, whatever they may be. Those are the true enemy in this fight imo.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Nonsense? It's only nonsense because you think killing babies is okay.
Either a fetus is a human being or it's not. It's pretty simple.
We're talking abortion. I am not for abortion.
You asked the valid moral and scientific queries of the issue.... this dude responses with accusation of random philosophical ramblings after trying to derail the dialog with a bit of "war & death penalty" sleight of hand........
 

Red Sky at Morning

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What truth? He said she was experiencing all these mental health issues, blamed it on the ten abortions she has had.

I argue that she probably already had the mental issues because it is not normal in any way to have ten abortions and the little complication of the fact she was sexually abused as a child comes out.

What truth exactly do you think I ignored?
As I sometimes tell my own kids when I find they have been up to no good and blame one another, I used to tell them - the one who is telling the truth can rest easy, the one who is not may fool others but they won't fool God.

I would never get involved with personality battles between them.
 

TempestOfTempo

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What truth? He said she was experiencing all these mental health issues, blamed it on the ten abortions she has had.

I argue that she probably already had the mental issues because it is not normal in any way to have ten abortions and the little complication of the fact she was sexually abused as a child comes out.

What truth exactly do you think I ignored?
I think its fair to say that you have a valid point.... if this person has truly had so many of these procedures, its logical to hypothesize that their life is likely in one heck of a state.......
I think its also completely unrealistic to think that the trauma of 10 abortions wouldn't haunt an normal individual, both emotionally and physically.
 

TempestOfTempo

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People who are sexually abused act out sexually quite frequently... your opinion that this isn’t a serious mental concern is irrelevant - it is. PTSD, depression, anxiety, attachment issues.. all very real and devastating.

You can’t blame her current diminished mental state on the abortions when she already had a diminished mental state to begin with.
These sad realities can feed off of one another, sinking the person deeper.
 

justjess

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I’m definately not disagreeing with that...

After the second or third abortion that woman should have had a comprehensive psych evaluation and been offered therapy and social services. That’s not normal and indicates some deeper issue... one or two ok we’ll things happen but at ten that is something pathological and someone should have been trying to get to the root of it.

Unfortunately our system isn’t set up for that.. that’s a problem with the medical/health care industry more than anything else. Legalized early term abortion paired with social services and intervention and a pro worker environment would see a larger drop in abortion rates than just outlawing abortion without addressing the rest ever will.
 

TempestOfTempo

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I’m definately not disagreeing with that...

After the second or third abortion that woman should have had a comprehensive psych evaluation and been offered therapy and social services. That’s not normal and indicates some deeper issue... one or two ok we’ll things happen but at ten that is something pathological and someone should have been trying to get to the root of it.

Unfortunately our system isn’t set up for that.. that’s a problem with the medical/health care industry more than anything else. Legalized early term abortion paired with social services and intervention and a pro worker environment would see a larger drop in abortion rates than just outlawing abortion without addressing the rest ever will.
You and I may disagree, but one is too many. However, its legal. But after the first traumatic experience of an abortion, if the individual hasn't been convinced a change is needed in order to never again suffer such a cruel choice and procedure, that is strictly on them and the provider who is willing to commit to multiple abortions for one person (abortion as a form of birth control).

Im not trying to start a brawl though. I get the sense you are also opposed to abortion, yet see it as a last chance option, not a catch-all solution, so I aint trying to scream baby killer at you or other such provocations.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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You and I may disagree, but one is too many. However, its legal. But after the first traumatic experience of an abortion, if the individual hanst been convinced a change is needed in order to never again suffer such a cruel choice and procedure, that is strictly on them and the provider who is willing to commit to multiple abortions for one person (abortion as a form of birth control).

Im not trying to start a brawl though. I get the sense you are also opposed to abortion, yet see it as a last chance option, not a catch-all solution, so I aint trying to scream baby killer at you or other such provocations.
I think you hit on a good point here - it appears that abortions are increasingly being employed as a catch-all solution and not an option to contemplate if all other possibilities have been exhausted.

Perhaps all of us, left or right leaning can at least agree on this?
 

TempestOfTempo

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The abortion rate is dropping rapidly so no... I don’t agree.

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/3/18119528/abortion-rate-decline-2018-birth-control-iud-pill

If we want it to drop further - which is something I do think all sides can agree on - we need to improve people’s economic situation and actually support families with our wallets instead of just paying lip service.
"If we want it to drop further - which is something I do think all sides can agree on - we need to improve people’s economic situation and actually support families with our wallets instead of just paying lip service."
That is where I diverge from many of the "Pro-Lifers"..... fools will stand and scream at a gal going into a building for this procedure, yet wont drop a dime or lift a finger to help her stabilize her own life enough so that she aint got to abort or give up the child? Weak sauce.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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"If we want it to drop further - which is something I do think all sides can agree on - we need to improve people’s economic situation and actually support families with our wallets instead of just paying lip service."
That is where I diverge from many of the "Pro-Lifers"..... fools will stand and scream at a gal going into a building for this procedure, yet wont drop a dime or lift a finger to help her stabilize her own life enough so that she aint got to abort or give up the child? Weak sauce.
I agree. Without social support structures, people in desparate situations do desperate things. It's easy to judge people who face challenges we never have.

This is not the whole story though.

The issue has two sides. There are indeed people who face desparation and seemingly impossible odds. There are others who just feel that an unplanned child may prove to be a barrier to success at that point in their lives.

I'm glad I'm not God. He's going to be the judge.
 
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