Abortion - The End of the Slippery Slope

justjess

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My beliefs on abortion have ALWAYS remained the same.

I have been strictly pro-life for my entire life, including when I was an atheist and long before I got saved.

It didn’t take a religious belief to recognize that killing the unborn (no matter how young) is murder.

As far as “viability”, that doesn’t hold much water in my opinion. Even the healthiest newborn baby already outside the mother will die if not constantly cared for, fed, kept warm, etc. by the mother or some other person.
“Some other person” being the key point.

It isn’t entirely dependent on the biological mother anymore. Someone else could and often does provide the necessary care, that does a lot to diminish the woman’s rights over the decision (as it should)

I explained how I developed my own beliefs, I didn’t question how u developed yours or why. I didn’t just pull my beliefs out of thin air with nothing behind them or no reasoning. That is all I was saying.
 






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I’m sorry but I just don’t believe you.. at this point you’ve had a friend with cancer that had a csection to save her 20 week old fetus who miraculously survived and now a sister who’s had 7 abortions of which three were illegal. That’s just too entirely implausible, I’m sorry.

If they are performing illegal abortions they should lose their license and be shut down, what the law says doesn’t actually matter to people who break laws so the law allowing for exceptional circumstances shouldnt bother you or anyone else since it doesn’t matter either way to those who break it. The only way this law should bother you is if you actually disagree that abortions in cases of maternal health and fatality shouldn’t be done. In which case, while I vehementally disagree with you, I respect that this is your belief.

My problem comes in with trying to force that belief on people who don’t share it. The laws and ideas surrounding pregnancy are all based squarely in religion and philosophy. If someone has a different religious or philosophical view in a country that isn’t a theocracy, forcing them to adhere to ones own is wrong.

At the end of the day if your god exists he will judge them for what they’ve done. Why isn’t that good enough? The aborted child or fetus, if it has in fact been ensouled already will find its way to heaven since it’s innocent, even the Catholics with the original sin doctrine believe this. Eternal damnation of the mother who aborted it, if your god sees fit is worse than any prison sentence she could have been given anyway.

Abortions have been around since the beginning of time. Whether they are legal or not they aren’t going to go away.

I personally don’t feel making them illegal does any actual good. I’d rather see time effort and resources directed towards ameliorating the societal conditions that cause women to get abortions in the first place.
Whether you believe it or not, it happens. Miracles, as well as the most deplorable acts of man.

I never said God would or even should damn a woman to Hell (with no hope of salvation) for eternity for having abortion(s).

I’m grateful He doesn’t, and that these women can still become saved, as my sister is living proof. I hope they all believe on Christ and He will separate them from those sins as far as the east is to the west and Hell will never have dominion over them.

People make mistakes.
But we cannot just be silent and watch it continue.

I’ve also seen the pain & horror of the aftermath of women who have had abortions and it is truly heartbreaking.

After the abortion the baby is gone, but the mother remembers. And they will carry that guilt with them forever.

My sister has given me so much insight on it and I’m thoroughly convinced that abortion harms the mother who commits it.

I asked her if there was a difference (as far as how it affected her later) between the earlier abortions she had& the later term ones.

She thought about it and closed her eyes as tears rolled down her face as she shook her head and said , “Not really. Any way you look at it, in the end, you still know you just killed your own baby.”
 






justjess

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Your sister you claim had three elective late term abortions despite them being illegal.. so why does this law even matter in your opinion?
 






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“Some other person” being the key point.

It isn’t entirely dependent on the biological mother anymore. Someone else could and often does provide the necessary care, that does a lot to diminish the woman’s rights over the decision (as it should)

I explained how I developed my own beliefs, I didn’t question how u developed yours or why. I didn’t just pull my beliefs out of thin air with nothing behind them or no reasoning. That is all I was saying.
I DO, however, agree with you on one thing....and that is that we should try to find a way to help the women who WOULD choose to have their baby if they saw a way to provide for their baby & themselves.

Sort of like a halfway house but for pregnant girls/women who do want to keep their baby.

A place where they could go if they were kicked out of their home for being pregnant, where they could still finish school, or learn a skill/trade that would allow them to integrate back into society and motherhood, while teaching them good parenting skills.

Maybe these places exist, I’m not sure. But they should.
 






justjess

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I DO, however, agree with you on one thing....and that is that we should try to find a way to help the women who WOULD choose to have their baby if they saw a way to provide for their baby & themselves.

Sort of like a halfway house but for pregnant girls/women who do want to keep their baby.

A place where they could go if they were kicked out of their home for being pregnant, where they could still finish school, or learn a skill/trade that would allow them to integrate back into society and motherhood, while teaching them good parenting skills.

Maybe these places exist, I’m not sure. But they should.
Very few do but they are typically limited teen moms or addicts and they aren’t even widely avaioable for those groups..

I think they’d be a greAt idea too
 






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Your sister you claim had three elective late term abortions despite them being illegal.. so why does this law even matter in your opinion?
Because any law that “expands abortion access” should be challenged.

Abortion should not be legal at any stage of pregnancy, IMO.
 






justjess

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Because any law that “expands abortion access” should be challenged.

Abortion should not be legal at any stage of pregnancy, IMO.
Legal or not as you yourself pointed out it is still going to happen, I don’t think condemning women to a death sentence over it is the right thing to do.
 






Lurking009

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Murder is murder... is murder. No person should have the right to murder/terminate another human being, including and especially the mother of that human being.

- When a pregnant woman is keeping her child, she calls it a baby. When she's getting an abortion, it magically becomes a 'fetus'. I have never in my life ever heard a woman or couple who are keeping their baby joyfully announce they're having a fetus. Call it what you want, it's still a human being.

- A woman can kill her baby via abortion legally, but if someone was to cause that SAME WOMAN harm which results in the death of the baby, it's deemed fetal homicide. In both cases, a baby was killed. Nothing changed. Still the same baby in the same womb, but one case is acceptable and the other is murder. Reconcile.

- I hear self-proclaimed strong, intelligent and independent women repeat the 'their body, their choice' mantra over and over. And yet, somehow they're too stupid and too weak take personal responsibility and make the simple logical choice of birth control. As a woman myself, this deeply disturbs and angers me. Cheap birth control is available everywhere. Adoption agencies are everywhere. So why does Planned Parenthood keep pushing abortion at all stages and at all costs? That's the question the pro-abortionists should really be asking. Why did PP endorse and donate to Virginia Delegate Kathy Tran, who in turn helped create the late term abortion bill? Hmmm. How can anyone be on this site and still not question the obvious in-your-face agenda to kill babies?

People instinctively know deep in their hearts that killing a baby is wrong. If they didn't, the pro-abortion/anti-life side would not have had to work SO hard to dehumanize a baby and manipulate terminology so women can 'feel better' about their decision. But none of that matters when a life is lost. When the deed is done, it's still murder.
 






justjess

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The overwhelming majority of planned parenthood budget does not go to abortion. It is illegal for federal money to be used to pay for abortions.

The people who are against it should be the ones putting their money where their mouths are.

The left is already trying to push pro family programs and policies.. the right keeps voting them down
 






Lurker

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It is illegal for federal money to be used to pay for abortions.
But it does go to lights, sanitizer, rent and a whole host of other things. It'd be like me paying someones electric bill and they use their money for drugs. Then me saying---I didn't buy them drugs.
 






justjess

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Most abortion clinics are freestanding - that’s all they do so the finances aren’t complicated.

Planned parenthood has more then enough funding from so many varied sources that I am not really worried that they couldn’t perform abortions without the federal money keeping the lights on. It’s just not reasonable. Abortions account for a tiny percentage of the services they render. And they don’t even do them in every state - in NJ they don’t do them at all. If it’s so concerning to others they could always just follow the NJ model.
 






Lurker

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Planned parenthood has more then enough funding from so many varied sources that I am not really worried that they couldn’t perform abortions without the federal money keeping the lights on
I agree. Which is why I wonder why some people freak out anytime someone mentions cutting federal funding for PP.
in NJ they don’t do them at all. If it’s so concerning to others they could always just follow the NJ model
How? Is it a state law or a choice from PP?
 






justjess

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I agree. Which is why I wonder why some people freak out anytime someone mentions cutting federal funding for PP.

How? Is it a state law or a choice from PP?
I’m not sure but I think it was state law.

it has changed apparantly in the last twenty years... now they do first trimester only - so the pill. When I lived there they didn’t do any, so idk.
 






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I’m not sure but I think it was state law.

it has changed apparantly in the last twenty years... now they do first trimester only - so the pill. When I lived there they didn’t do any, so idk.
It seems that it would've had to be a choice by PP. A law of that nature would've easily been overturned. Then again, there seems to be plenty of bass ackward laws everywhere that go unchallenged.
 






justjess

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All I know is it was weird, you could go to PP for a pregnancy test and they’d talk to you about your options but for the actual abortion they referred you out to a different clinic. This was 15-20 years ago so idk and I can’t find anything regarding it. I did find their current listings of services and it says up to 10 weeks on most and they have one clinic that does up to 13, other states PP is advertising up to 16-24.

Beats me.... and updated it was a choice of the pp’s in the state that changed in 2013 when the federal pp charter mandated every affiliate to have an abortion center.
 






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I think abortion should be a crime, but since it will likely remain legal, it makes sense to start with pushing for a heartbeat bill.

As soon as the baby has a heartbeat, at around 18 days old, he/she cannot legally be aborted.

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justjess

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Well no... you can have a heartbeat and still be considered dead. Brain death does not mean there is no heart beat. I’ve known people who had heartbeats and no brain activity and were being kept alive solely by machines.

I don’t think a heartbeat alone constitutes life, I personally think it’s brain activity. That’s after watching my grandfather, aunt , and father be in comas and eventually die.. as well as my grandmothers severe decline into Alzheimer’s that I mentioned elsewhere.

Everyone has their own beliefs that’s what makes the issue so complicated. Oddly enough true brain activity starts around 25 weeks so that fits with currentnlaws..

http://www.brainblogger.com/2009/05/10/medical-controversy-when-does-life-begin/
 






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Well no... you can have a heartbeat and still be considered dead. Brain death does not mean there is no heart beat. I’ve known people who had heartbeats and no brain activity and were being kept alive solely by machines.

I don’t think a heartbeat alone constitutes life, I personally think it’s brain activity. That’s after watching my grandfather, aunt , and father be in comas and eventually die.. as well as my grandmothers severe decline into Alzheimer’s that I mentioned elsewhere.

Everyone has their own beliefs that’s what makes the issue so complicated. Oddly enough true brain activity starts around 25 weeks so that fits with currentnlaws..

http://www.brainblogger.com/2009/05/10/medical-controversy-when-does-life-begin/
The brainwave issue is just grasping at straws to make it fit your standard. It is used as an indication of QUALITY of life, but not life in general.

A heartbeat alone ABSOLUTELY indicates life.

It is the baseline indicator. Without the heartbeat, there can be no life, or brainwaves.

If you are truly honest, you know this is the truth.
 






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