A Tribute To Nabeel Qureshi

[Haich]

and when we said catholics are not christians, all you muslims jump on us. double standard much?

Read my post clearly, I didn't deny they were Muslims. They believe in a prophet after Mohammed so some scholars argue this takes them out of the fold of Islam

Ahmediyas are Muslims but they don't follow the teachings of the prophet in its entirety, they follow another guy whose name I don't remember.

We don't deny anyone is Muslim, but acknowledge certain beliefs differ. You guys say Catholicism isn't part of Christianity when in theory, it is.

 

[floss]

Yh Floss you seriously have a strong hatred for Muslims and none on here have done anything to you or said something to piss you off...

Shouldn't your belief in your own faith give you joy and rid your heart of hatred? How can you hate people that much?

you're also mistaken righteous anger for hatred... I'm fully aware judgement belong to HIM. I'm pretty joyful, doesn't mean I won't point out these evil deeds.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Nabeel's core understanding of Islam did resonate very well with conversations I have had on this forum with people I believe to be genuine Muslims, @DesertRose

Shall we leave it for a bit as a conversation piece? It is for anyone interested in the message or the man to look further into his work.

 

[DesertRose]

Shall we leave it for a bit as a conversation piece? It is for anyone interested in the message or the man to look further into his work.

Okay and while they're at it they should check the main message of Islam as well:
The meaning of Tawheed/Islamic Monotheism and its categories
https://islamqa.info/en/49030

 

[grateful servant]

Actually the double standard is with you @floss if you think about it...can't have your cake and eat it too.

For anyone who is ignorant of the differences, suffice it to say that the core tenets of Ahmadiyya are not those of Islam.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Actually the double standard is with you @floss if you think about it...can't have your cake and eat it too.

For anyone who is ignorant of the differences, suffice it to say that the core tenets of Ahmadiyya are not those of Islam.

I will take your word for it. Perhaps a better question to consider is that when Nabeel describes Islam, is he accurate in his understanding and presentation of it, regardless of his personal background?

 

[DesertRose]

Already posted this Red, but here is a run down and the answer is no.
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/the_ahmadis_are_not_muslims

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Already posted this Red, but here is a run down and the answer is no.
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/the_ahmadis_are_not_muslims

The "ex-muslim" aspect is not really the point here. Perhaps Nabeel thought he was a Muslim in the same way an unsaved religious Catholic might have thought they were a Christian. I'm not the one to judge that. I try to listen to what people say, let the ideas thanks or fall, and try to avoid being swayed positively or negatively by personalities...

I guess the question at stake here is whether Nabeel holds up Ahmadiyya or Islam to scrutiny? If his examples primarily represent Ahmadiyya and contrast than unfavourably with Christianity then he is setting up a straw man. This wasn't the impression I got when I watched him though.

 

[floss]

Read my post clearly, I didn't deny they were Muslims. They believe in a prophet after Mohammed so some scholars argue this takes them out of the fold of Islam

Ahmediyas are Muslims but they don't follow the teachings of the prophet in its entirety, they follow another guy whose name I don't remember.

We don't deny anyone is Muslim, but acknowledge certain beliefs differ. You guys say Catholicism isn't part of Christianity when in theory, it is.

Christian doesn't worship/venerate Mary/Pope/Saints... Catholics are actually more closer to Islam in practices than Christianity.

How the Vatican created Islam

 

[grateful servant]

I will take your word for it. Perhaps a better question to consider is that when Nabeel describes Islam, is he accurate in his understanding and presentation of it, regardless of his personal background?

I don't think I've ever heard him describe Islam so I can't comment about it. I suppose you could look at videos or read works of those who have rebutted his statements to find out.

 

[grateful servant]

Difference between Ahmadiyah and Islam. Dawah man compares Ahmediyah to Islam as comparing Christianity toJudaism or Mormonism to Christianity ...

 

[grateful servant]

Christian doesn't worship/venerate Mary/Pope/Saints... Catholics are actually more closer to Islam in practices than Christianity.

Hmmm... Let's see:

Christians and Catholics believe Jesus is son of God and God
- Muslims most certainly do not

Christians and Catholics believe Jesus had to die for sins of humans
-Muslims most certainly do not

Christians and Catholics believe that you have to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior to go to heaven
-Muslims most certainly do not

So... yeah.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Difference between Ahmadiyah and Islam. Dawah man compares Ahmediyah to Islam as comparing Christianity to Islam or Mormonism to Christianity ...

I get where you are coming from - that's why I used Catholicism as an example. When the "religious institution" called Christianity is referenced, 500 years after the reformation (which happened for a reason!) people frequently reference Catholicism with all its pagan trappings and tar other more Bible-based beliefs with the same brush.

I don't think Nabeel presents the Ahmadiyya view in his presentation of Islam, but I couldn't say categorically without a far greater understanding of Islam. Why don't you watch him and see if you can out him as a fake Muslim ;-)

 

[Haich]

People who come out as ex Muslims or turn to another faith are usually never devout in the first place. A lukewarm part time Muslim who confuses cultural and religious practices never really understood what it meant to be a Muslim, so it's hard to say they were genuine in the first place.

That's the impression I got from Nabeel...

 

[grateful servant]

I get where you are coming from - that's why I used Catholicism as an example. When the "religious institution" called Christianity is referenced, 500 years after the reformation (which happened for a reason!) people frequently reference Catholicism with all its pagan trappings and tar other more Bible-based beliefs with the same brush.

I don't think Nabeel presents the Ahmadiyya view in his presentation of Islam, but I couldn't say categorically without a far greater understanding of Islam. Why don't you watch him and see if you can out him as a fake Muslim ;-)

I made a typo. I meant to say 'comparing Christianity to Judaism' ... I thought you weren't interested in whether or not he was actually a Muslim, but whether his claims about Islam were true.

 

[DesertRose]

 

[Haich]

Why is it so difficult to ask a Muslim about Islam? The same way I'd ask a Christian about Christianity?
Why do Christians love watching ex-Muslim videos and take that individual as a knowledgable and informed critic of islam?

To be a critic of something you must have a decent amount of knowledge to critique it. He was Muslim for like 3 seconds and didn't study the book so why are his words more important in finding about Islam than an actual Muslim?

It's very disingenuous to seek information from people who aren't qualified to speak at length on the topic at hand. David wood is another example of someone who talks out of his backside.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why is it so difficult to ask a Muslim about Islam? The same way I'd ask a Christian about Christianity?
Why do Christians love watching ex-Muslim videos and take that individual as a knowledgable and informed critic of islam?

To be a critic of something you must have a decent amount of knowledge to critique it. He was Muslim for like 3 seconds and didn't study the book so why are his words more important in finding about Islam than an actual Muslim?

It's very disingenuous to seek information from people who aren't qualified to speak at length on the topic at hand. David wood is another example of someone who talks out of his backside.

The man referenced in the video I was watching just now sounded like he was a Muslim but perhaps as he was an ISIS prince, the Muslim community would distance itself now from his "Islam".

Anyway, I don't want to play conversion 'ping-pong' as it doesn't really mean that much, and I have seen it done very aggressively on this forum.

I watched Nabeel and for what it's worth, I found him logical, respectful and not at all pushy. I didn't start this thread for any other reason than to publicly pay my respects to a brave man I admired in both life and death.

 

[floss]

6m34s video with title "Nabeel Qureshi stumbles on the Trinity"
Nabeel get about 40s screen time and the rest is Shabir
Typical muslims tactics, let me post the whole debate since muslims love to attack any small mistakes (btw Nabeel corrected his mistake)

 

[Haich]

The Isis card? Really?

If people still think Isis is a legitimate group trying to spread sharia then VC's portfolio of work hasn't hit home.

I didn't mean to disrupt this thread, I was drawn in by comments made by Floss regarding 'Muslim likes' whatever that is.