a rough guide to the Apocalypse

colson

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If you have some patience, there are some things in here that blew my mind and maybe will blow your mind (namely the precise solution to Daniel 9; if you have been stumped by this prophecy, I don't think you will be disappointed!) First, I'll go through some general timing elements that seem appropriate and look at the 'sign of the son of man' that Jesus mentions, some bits of Revelation, and then an in-depth look at Daniel 9. First though we'll look at just a quick overview of Dan 9.
2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.
9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against him 10 and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God by walking in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned aside, refusing to obey your voice. And the curse and oath that are written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him. [...]​
24 “Seventy 'sevens' are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. 25 Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks.​
Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. 27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one 'seven', and in the middle of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”​

In general, the word 'seven' above is translated as 'weeks' (the Hebrew word 'shabua' http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7620.htm ), but!.... In addition to 'shabua' meaning 'weeks', it also means 'heptad' / group of seven.
In other words, the 'seventy 'seven's above can also be read as.. '77' (70 + '7 years')
Now watch what happens:
in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years. [...]​
77 is decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. [...]​
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one 'seven', and in the middle of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”​

So, Jerusalem has been desolate for 70 years.... and it needs 1 more '7' years period to reach... 77 years to finish the transgression. (77 solar years after May 14, 1948 : dusk May 13, 2025)

In other words, what people call the 70th week (not really synonymous with the tribulation) seems to be this last '7' of the 77 years. If this is talking about Jerusalem, Israel, then its 70th anniversary is 5 Iyyar, 5778 (our April 20, 2018) or May 14, 2018 (70 solar years after May 14, 1948). One of the reasons why the 70th anniversary of Israel is important is because of Jeremiah 29:10 “For thus says the LORD: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. There seems to be a parallel between the Babylonian captivity & the modern nation-state of Israel.
Don't worry, there is a lot more to Daniel 9:24-27 to discuss, more on this in a bit - with the exact meaning of all these verses!

But back to our generalized overview of Revelation, how does this 70th anniversary through the 77th anniversary of Israel relate to the book of Revelation sequence of events?
Let's look at a few landmark events
**Note: I don't believe in a whisked away rapture. In my opinion, it is a lie of Satan to cause the apostasy. So, talking about the 'sign of the son of man' is not to be taken as promoting a 'rapture date'. Nor it is to be taken as setting a date for Christ's return, which is not possible to determine and may only have a symbolic fulfillment.
IMO, here is the 'sign of the son of man in heaven' (Matt 24:30), which will occur on Feb 11, 2021.



the sun, Saturn, Jupiter, and Venus form one axis of the cross (with Jupiter & Venus in conjunction), and Mercury and the moon forming the arms of the cross.

the neat thing about this cross sign is that it occurs 3.5 days short of exactly 42 months from Sept 23, 2017's star sign. Revelation 12:1-2 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth.



From 3 Tishri, 5778 to 3 Adar, 5781 (starting at dusk Feb 14, 2021) is exactly 42 months and thus early morning Feb 11, 2021 is 3.5 days shorter. (lunar month is about 29.5 days, multiply by 42 to get roughly 1240/ 1239 days depending on the month

So, let's go to Matt 24 and put a few pieces together
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!​
20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.​
24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.​
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​


When Jesus refers to the abomination of desolation (in the historical sense, this is the statue of Zeus that was placed in the 2nd Jewish temple), he's not exactly referring to Daniel 9:27 (which is generally where people understand the 'abomination statue' to show up - ie the 'middle of the 7 years', but this understanding is not correct, I'll show you why later), he's referring to Daniel 12:11-13, the 1290 days & 1335 days.

Dan 12: 11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days. 13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

The main action would be concentrated on 1335 days + 70 'weeks' (literally 490 days). That's the 'great tribulation'. And I'll show you exactly what it means in the expanded Daniel 9 discussion later on! (here's a hint: it is extremely literal!)

I am fairly sure that this is how it gets put together:

  • Dec 21, 2020 is the 'winter' day that starts the 'great tribulation' (Matt 24:20) (Prince William is 38.5 years old, aka breaking the covenant in the 'middle of 77 years). this is the beginning of the 1335 days.

  • 45 days later is Feb 4, 2021 and the start of the 1290 days & start of the 5th Trumpet 5 months (see Joel chapters 1-4, especially how the locusts 'cut off the wine & grain/ ie bread sacrifices in Joel 1:9). Here is where it gets tricky. The temple is trampled for a shorter amount of time than the 2 witnesses are testifying. (the 2300 'evenings & mornings' of Dan 8 is 1150 days, shortened by 7 days which is required to cleanse the temple: thus the 5 (Bible lunar not Gregorian calendar) months of the 5th Trumpet is 147 days + 1143 days of the inner court of the temple attacked with the abomination = 1290 days. Which takes us to Aug 17, 2024. Start 70 literal weeks (Dan 9:24-27) to 'finish the transgression' to end the 69th week on the start of Hanukah, dusk Dec 13, 2025. Again, the temple is separate timing from the 2 witnesses. The final 70 weeks/ 490 days will complete the anointing of a holy place.

  • After the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet that started on Feb 4, 2021, we get to July 4, 2021 which is the middle of 70 '7's/ middle of 490 years, ie 245 years. The covenant of the Declaration of Independence is broken in the middle of this '7': July 4, 1776 + 245 years = July 4, 2021. ***Note that 5 Bible/ lunar months go from 22 Sh'vat to 22 Tammuz, 5871 which is July 2, 2021, not July 4, 2021.

  • July 2, 2021 starts the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses (Rev 11:3) which ends on Dec 13, 2024. Thus Dec 13, 2024 to Dec 13, 2025 is the 'year of recompense' (see Isaiah 34:8 & Isaiah 63:4)

  • Subtract the 7 months of clean-up of the Gog war corpses (Ezekiel 39:12) from dusk Dec 13, 2025 to get to dusk May 13, 2025 which would be the '77th' anniversary of Jerusalem/ Israel mentioned in Daniel 9. In other words, the Gog war ends at the 77th anniversary of Israel, then the 7 months of clean-up finishes out the 1335 + 69 weeks sequence at dusk Dec 13, 2025 (the end of 70 weeks would end on Dec 20, 2025).

  • Special note about Feb 4, 2021: this is the time of the 6th Seal & Trumpets 1-4 (the events of which mirror each other: the 'stars that fall' = the 'burning mountain' of the 2nd Trumpet & the 'star that falls, aka Wormwood' of the 3rd Trumpet; the 'powers of heaven being shaken' = the 1st & 4th Trumpets) . This is the attack on the 'city'/ Jerusalem mentioned in Daniel 9:26 (And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary) and is the same as Matt 24:15-21 where the people of Judea have to flee (i.e. Jerusalem is being attacked). The attack on the sanctuary in Daniel 9:26 is the same as the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses in the 6th Trumpet / 2nd woe. The following passage applies to just after the attack on the city: Matt 24:29
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

On Feb 11, 2021 is the 'sign of the son of man

So, again, Feb 4, 2021 cuts off the great tribulation (the attack on the 'city') (immediately afterwards is the cross in heaven sign) and then Satan goes to attack Christians (the 'sanctuary' attack) referred to in Rev 12 (Satan attacks the woman, then attacks Christians).
Rev 12​
13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.​
Rev 13​
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. 4 And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”​

So now let's get to a more expanded & detailed look at Daniel 9:24-27. Some of the more experienced prophecy students are thinking, "oh, if the 7 years go from May 2018 to May 2025, then the abomination of desolation must be set up around Nov / Dec 2021. Why is this fool saying that the 'great tribulation' begins a whole year earlier?!" I wondered about this also, because the evidence clearly did not support the position that the great tribulation 'started in the 2nd half of the 7 year tribulation'.

And so to answer this question, we have to get extremely literal. Hopefully no one can find fault with that...

Daniel 9's prayer says that it starts at the end of 70 years of desolations of Jerusalem.
In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, by descent a Mede, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans— 2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.
3 Then I turned my face to the Lord God, seeking him by prayer and pleas for mercy with fasting and sackcloth and ashes. 4 I prayed to the Lord my God and made confession, saying, “O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, 5 we have sinned and done wrong and acted wickedly and rebelled, turning aside from your commandments and rules. 6 We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.​

The modern state of Israel was started on May 14, 1948 / 5 Iyyar, 5708. 70 years later is 5 Iyyar, 5778 (our April 20, 2018).
24 “Seventy 'weeks' (*** also '77' **) are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place​
[Here, the 77 meaning finishes out the transgressions, ending at the 77th anniversary of Jerusalem, Israel on May 13, 2025 (77 solar years).
The 2nd meaning is also '70 weeks'/ literally 490 days.]
25 Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks.​
[Start at the 70th anniversary, April 20, 2018 and add 7 weeks: June 8, 2018. This is the most probable (unannounced) date for Prince William's upcoming visit to Israel.]
Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.​
[Add 62 weeks to June 8, 2018: August 16, 2019]
26 And after sixty-two weeks (***translations generally put a 'the' before the '62 weeks', but in the original Hebrew there is no preposition 'the' there), an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.​
[Add another 62 weeks here, for the date of someone being 'cut off' (has the meaning of being 'covenanted' or 'killed'.] this takes us to October 23, 2020. this could be the very date that the 'antichrist' receives his mortal head wound.]
And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.​
[These events take us to the end of 70 weeks where a desolation is decreed. To finish out the 8 more weeks past Oct 23, 2020 takes us to the end of 70 weeks on Dec 18, 2020. All in all, we have gone 69 weeks, then another 70 weeks.]
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and in the middle of the 'seven' he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.​
[At the end of the 70 weeks ending on Dec 18, 2020, the prince/ ruler to come makes a covenant and breaks it in the middle of 1 week, literally the middle of 7 days. Again, he places the abomination of desolation 3.5 days after Dec 18, 2020 which would be dusk Dec 21, 2020, which is when Prince William will turn 38.5 years old (the 'middle of 77 years' = 38.5). Dec 21, 2020 is the start of the 1335 days of Daniel 12:13. ]
And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”​
So, whereas most people assume that the 42 months of the beast from the sea = the abomination of desolation showing up in 'middle of 7 years', it is more likely that the 'middle of the 'week' means a literal week that started at the 70th anniversary of Jerusalem, Israel + 7 weeks + 62 weeks + 62 weeks + 8 weeks + 1 week, this last 1 week being broken in the middle thereof that starts the 1335 days of the abomination of desolation, finished by 70 weeks/ 490 days.
 

colson

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Um, how did Prince William get into this???
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/world/middleeast/prince-william-israel-visit.html
Britain created Israel back in the day, yet no royal has ever been to Israel until Prince Willaim's upcoming visit sometime in the summer (no date yet). The 70th anniversary of Israel is coming up April 20, 2018 // 5 Iyyar, 5778. If I am correct in my views of Daniel 9, we should see him visit there on June 8, 2018.

His father, Prince Charles, is the Prince of Wales (one of the kingdoms of the United Kingdoms, aka Great Britain). This is the flag of Wales.



If you aren't familiar with the UK being the center of the Luciferianism, there is plenty to read about (Princess Diana's mother is said to be a Rothschild, maybe you've heard of them? https://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernard-starr/a-jewish-king-and-queen-o_b_876455.html

Prince Harry's gematria is 666, as well as his father, Prince Charles. https://escapeallthesethings.com/prince-charles-antichrist/ Again, there's literally tons about this subject.
 

Helioform

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/world/middleeast/prince-william-israel-visit.html
Britain created Israel back in the day, yet no royal has ever been to Israel until Prince Willaim's upcoming visit sometime in the summer (no date yet). The 70th anniversary of Israel is coming up April 20, 2018 // 5 Iyyar, 5778. If I am correct in my views of Daniel 9, we should see him visit there on June 8, 2018.

His father, Prince Charles, is the Prince of Wales (one of the kingdoms of the United Kingdoms, aka Great Britain). This is the flag of Wales.



If you aren't familiar with the UK being the center of the Luciferianism, there is plenty to read about (Princess Diana's mother is said to be a Rothschild, maybe you've heard of them? https://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernard-starr/a-jewish-king-and-queen-o_b_876455.html

Prince Harry's gematria is 666, as well as his father, Prince Charles. https://escapeallthesethings.com/prince-charles-antichrist/ Again, there's literally tons about this subject.
According to this site, Prince William would be the "Anti-Christ". There is alot of useful information on the Templars and Freemasons as well.

http://www.angelfire.com/darkside/net1/1.html
 

colson

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Yes, angelfire has some very good info and that article was probably the one that opened my eyes to a lot of this stuff, back in the day.

What's interesting about the royals is that the king or queen is the 'pope' if you will, of the Church of England. Someone I knew that was in the Air Force/ counter intelligence, as soon as he became a mason immediately switched churches to start going to an Anglican church/ Church of England. Basically, the church of freemasons is the Anglican church/ church of England which if you recall the Satanic fashion show in a church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Andrew_Holborn_(church) https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/satanic-fashion-show-inside-church-london-fashion-week/ , that was a church of England church.
 

llleopard

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Yes, angelfire has some very good info and that article was probably the one that opened my eyes to a lot of this stuff, back in the day.

What's interesting about the royals is that the king or queen is the 'pope' if you will, of the Church of England. Someone I knew that was in the Air Force/ counter intelligence, as soon as he became a mason immediately switched churches to start going to an Anglican church/ Church of England. Basically, the church of freemasons is the Anglican church/ church of England which if you recall the Satanic fashion show in a church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Andrew_Holborn_(church) https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/satanic-fashion-show-inside-church-london-fashion-week/ , that was a church of England church.
It also said they expected all this to happen by 2012, and WW3 in about 2003-4. . Would be good if they updated their website!
 

colson

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It also said they expected all this to happen by 2012, and WW3 in about 2003-4. . Would be good if they updated their website!
Oops, I haven't been there in forever! thanks for the heads up.

over the years, I have seen literally dozens of head fakes like that. I view the 'end - times'/ events of Revelation as equal parts fake/ engineered and 'real'. 2012 nonsense was clearly ginned up to discredit people who could figure out their game - because the elites very much do engineer events to fulfill prophecy, I see that every day. They really do understand prophecy - suberbly! That's partly why I have hope for the future - because the good will be fulfilled, they just can't help themselves apparently.

the fact that there was so much propaganda surrounding 2012 virtually guarantees that something like 'the end of the world' has to play out in some fashion. There wouldn't be a point to it otherwise.
 

colson

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As I posited in the OP, that July 4, 2021 is the start of the 6th Trumpet/ 2nd woe/ 1260 days of the 2 witnesses. (breaking the covenant/ Declaration of Independence in the middle of the '7' / middle of 70 '7's/ 490 years divide by 2 = 245 years after July 4, 1776) (Daniel 9:27)

So, when I am watching movies, I watch for items that indicate timing elements that correlate to the hypothetical framework I use to understand the 'end of the age'

Here are just a few examples (of which there are unlimited amounts of) from Thor: Ragnorok (Ragnorok being the Norse 'end of the world' geddit?)

starting at 6:00 minutes in, at the Immigrant song fight scene, Valkerie is in front of the spaceship and there are fireworks going off (for no apparent reason?? Can someone explain why there are fireworks here?) To me, this is subtle coding referring to July 4, 2021 US Independence day fireworks


Same idea here in the Kingsman 1st movie, go to 1:30 minutes in to see:


same thing here in Lord of the Rings

 

TokiEl

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It is extremely interesting that the Jews spent 70 years captive in Babylon and this is the 70th year of the modern State of Israel.

As you said shabua means group of seven and in the Bible it is used to denote both 7 days and 7 years. So the prophetic period of time allotted to the Jews and Jerusalem is either seventy times seven days or seventy times seven years.

Just curious how you would find or where you would place the coming of the Messiah according to your reckoning.
 

colson

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It is extremely interesting that the Jews spent 70 years captive in Babylon and this is the 70th year of the modern State of Israel.

As you said shabua means group of seven and in the Bible it is used to denote both 7 days and 7 years. So the prophetic period of time allotted to the Jews and Jerusalem is either seventy times seven days or seventy times seven years.

Just curious how you would find or where you would place the coming of the Messiah according to your reckoning.
just to be repetitive, it also means '70, 7 years', ie 77 years although that is a non-standard way in Hebrew to write it, but Dan 9 especially is written in a very contorted manner. But that is a legitimate reading of the Hebrew. (would love a Hebrew reader's opinion here)

as to the appearance of Jesus. In the Old Testament, there were many instances of 'theophany' / visible manifestations of God, also manifestations of the 'angel of the Lord'/ messenger of God. So, it seems reasonable to me that potentially Jesus only makes an 'appearance' during the end-times. The most direct statement of a physical messiah in the Old Testament is probably Zech 14:4

1 Behold, a day is coming for the Lord, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst.2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.5 And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him

this parallels Revelation 6

12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave[d] and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”​
compare this to Matt 24​
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
so you can see the 'holy ones' coming with the Lord in Zech 14 above, same here in Matt 24, the elect are gathered by the 'angels' (which means 'messengers' in the Greek, greek 'angelos') . Jerusalem is being attacked in Zech 14, same as in Matt 24, the 'great tribulation' of the abomination showing up is the 'tribulation of those days' :​
Matt 24 15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
that's the 'tribulation of those days' that are being referred to. Also, if one is inclined to believe in a whisked away 'pre-tribulation' rapture, it isn't taught here. The 'harpatzo' / 'snatching away' that is used to 'prove' a whisked away pre-trib rapture is this same 'harpazo' here in Matt 12:29​
Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.

that word 'plunder' is the 'harpazo'. People are gathered after the strong man is bound. In other words, the sealing of the 144,000 & the great multitude that are coming out of the 'great tribulation' (the strong man is bound.) That verse Matt 12:29 is referring to Isa 49:24​
13 Sing for joy, O heavens, and exult, O earth;
break forth, O mountains, into singing!
For the Lord has comforted his people
and will have compassion on his afflicted.​
14 But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me;
my Lord has forgotten me.”
[why would Zion (Christians) think that the Lord has forgotten them? they didn't get 'whisked away'
15 “Can a woman forget her nursing child,
that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb?
Even these may forget,
yet I will not forget you.
16 Behold, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;
your walls are continually before me.
17 Your builders make haste;d
your destroyers and those who laid you waste go out from you.
18 Lift up your eyes around and see;
they all gather, they come to you.
As I live, declares the Lord,
you shall put them all on as an ornament;
you shall bind them on as a bride does.​
19“Surely your waste and your desolate places
and your devastated land—
surely now you will be too narrow for your inhabitants,
and those who swallowed you up will be far away.
20 The children of your bereavement
will yet say in your ears:
‘The place is too narrow for me;
make room for me to dwell in.’
21 Then you will say in your heart:
‘Who has borne me these?
I was bereaved and barren,
exiled and put away,
but who has brought up these?
Behold, I was left alone;
from where have these come?’”​
22 Thus says the Lord God:
“Behold, I will lift up my hand to the nations,
and raise my signal to the peoples;
and they shall bring your sons in their arms,e
and your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders.
23 Kings shall be your foster fathers,
and their queens your nursing mothers.
With their faces to the ground they shall bow down to you,
and lick the dust of your feet.
Then you will know that I am the Lord;
those who wait for me shall not be put to shame.”​
24 Can the prey be taken from the mighty,
or the captives of a tyrant be rescued?

25 For thus says the Lord:
“Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken,
and the prey of the tyrant be rescued,
for I will contend with those who contend with you,
and I will save your children.
26 I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh,
and they shall be drunk with their own blood as with wine.

Then all flesh shall know
that I am the Lord your Savior,
and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”​

anyway that is a roundabout way of getting to this: Zech 14 says: 4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives

well, that sounds pretty definitive doesn't it? ehh, not so fast:

when we look at Ezek 43:17 talking about the 'millenial temple' we get: and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodies of their kings at their high places.

this would call back to Dan 9's anointing a 'holy place'.

but on the other hand we have Rev 16
12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. 13 And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. 14 For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) 16 And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
I think it is entirely possible that the new 'Joshua' (new priest that anoints new Zerubabbel as king) is the new 'Jesus' who is literally a thief. In predictive programming, you see this illustrated many times over, for example in Guardians of the Galaxy, the Star Lord character and his crew are thieves.

Short answer, hard to tell!
 

TokiEl

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Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
just to be repetitive, it also means '70, 7 years', ie 77 years although that is a non-standard way in Hebrew to write it, but Dan 9 especially is written in a very contorted manner. But that is a legitimate reading of the Hebrew. (would love a Hebrew reader's opinion here)

Let us look at the whole prophetic timeline given by Gabriel to Daniel.



Daniel 9 24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.


25
Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks
;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.


26
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.


27
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”




Notice in bold the exact timeline until Messiah the Prince.

In other words you can figure out exactly when the Messiah would come.

Do you know and understand ?
 

colson

Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
86
John 5:43
I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.

the 'him' that is received is indeed 'anointed'/ a messiah. See? The Jews will have a messiah/ anointed one - it's just not Jesus.

In other words, there most definitely is a messiah coming, but not THE messiah.

As to Daniel 9, there are many fulfillments to this cryptic passage going on - simultaneously.

the 1st 70 weeks (69 actually) seems to anoint the antichrist or a temple. so it takes 70 weeks to 'finish the transgression' -

thus why I read Dan 9 literally:

70 years captivity starts 7 years clock to 'anoint a holy' [ person or place]

70 years captivity starts 70 weeks/ 490 days (some think that this is the 'messiah', but it's not Jesus) (anointed at the 69th week like the text reads: 7 + 62 weeks)

70 years until the 'after 7 weeks' the 'anointed one' comes (April 20, 2018 + 7 weeks = June 8, 2018). This is a very strong indicator of the anitchrist, not Jesus.

After 7 + 62 + 62 weeks (Oct 23, 2020) the messiah is 'cut off' (the 'antichrist gets a mortal head wound?')

What happens at the end of 7 + 62 + 62 + 8 weeks? (Dec 18, 2020) A covenant is made - for 1 week (Dec 18 - 25, 2020). That 'messiah' breaks it on Dec 21, 2020. Just a simple pattern recognition says it will be Prince William because he will be 'the middle of 77 years' old on that date (77 / 2 = 38.5 years old). That's the 'abomination event' that occurs on the winter that starts the 'great tribulation'.

Matt 24
15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.​
 

Paranoia Daily

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Joined
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Messages
512
Let us look at the whole prophetic timeline given by Gabriel to Daniel.



Daniel 9 24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.


25
Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks
;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.


26
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.


27
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”




Notice in bold the exact timeline until Messiah the Prince.

In other words you can figure out exactly when the Messiah would come.

Do you know and understand ?
Well since he is 2000+ years late explain how you missed it? I know, I know, your going to use that famous escape clause "No man knows the time or day..."
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
As to Daniel 9, there are many fulfillments to this cryptic passage going on - simultaneously.

the 1st 70 weeks (69 actually) seems to anoint the antichrist or a temple. so it takes 70 weeks to 'finish the transgression' -

thus why I read Dan 9 literally:

70 years captivity starts 7 years clock to 'anoint a holy' [ person or place]

70 years captivity starts 70 weeks/ 490 days (some think that this is the 'messiah', but it's not Jesus) (anointed at the 69th week like the text reads: 7 + 62 weeks)

70 years until the 'after 7 weeks' the 'anointed one' comes (April 20, 2018 + 7 weeks = June 8, 2018). This is a very strong indicator of the anitchrist, not Jesus.

After 7 + 62 + 62 weeks (Oct 23, 2020) the messiah is 'cut off' (the 'antichrist gets a mortal head wound?')
Daniel 9 25
Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks
;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times."



There are two problems here which must be solved if you want to know when Messiah the Prince would come.

Problem 1: When did the command to restore and build Jerusalem go forth ?
Problem 2: What is a week/shabua ?
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
Well since he is 2000+ years late explain how you missed it? I know, I know, your going to use that famous escape clause "No man knows the time or day..."

He is not late at all.

Gabriel gave the exact time as to when Messiah would come.
 

colson

Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
86
Daniel 9 25
Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks
;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times."



There are two problems here which must be solved if you want to know when Messiah the Prince would come.

Problem 1: When did the command to restore and build Jerusalem go forth ?
Problem 2: What is a week/shabua ?
You're losing me here. It seems like you are fishing for a specific answer, so why don't you just say it. Historically, Daniel 9 has been fulfilled with Jesus' 1st appearance. If you are not Christian, I am not sure what common ground we have to discuss anything.

'messiah' just means the 'anointed one' - it is not an indicator of that person's holiness or not. It is just an indicator of being chosen. If the Jews choose poorly, they get a bad messiah. What more is there to say?

1) the command to restore Jerusalem will go out on Israel's 70th anniversary. Trump's Jerusalem embassy decision is part of this fulfillment. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/05/politics/us-embassy-jerusalem-donald-trump/index.html

2) http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7620.htm " a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week"

Just like I've been saying: 70 '7's would read as 70, 7 years (ie '77' years) or 70 '7's (ie 490 years) or 70 weeks (490 days). I've already addressed each specific meaning in the context of the framework that puts it all together.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
You're losing me here. It seems like you are fishing for a specific answer, so why don't you just say it. Historically, Daniel 9 has been fulfilled with Jesus' 1st appearance. If you are not Christian, I am not sure what common ground we have to discuss anything.
I am fishing for an answer as to when Messiah the Prince came the first time.



'1) the command to restore Jerusalem will go out on Israel's 70th anniversary. Trump's Jerusalem embassy decision is part of this fulfillment. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/05/politics/us-embassy-jerusalem-donald-trump/index.html

2) http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7620.htm " a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week"

Just like I've been saying: 70 '7's would read as 70, 7 years (ie '77' years) or 70 '7's (ie 490 years) or 70 weeks (490 days). I've already addressed each specific meaning in the context of the framework that puts it all together.
Why will the command to restore Jerusalem go out on Israel's 70th anniversary ? And what has the American embassy to do with this command to restore Jerusalem ?

So in this prophetic timeline given to Daniel is week/shabua 7 days or 7 years ?


I'm not trying to be difficult but when the timeline is seven weeks and sixty-two weeks until Messiah the Prince then please calculate and show when the Messiah would come the first time.
 

colson

Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
86
I am fishing for an answer as to when Messiah the Prince came the first time.





Why will the command to restore Jerusalem go out on Israel's 70th anniversary ? And what has the American embassy to do with this command to restore Jerusalem ?

So in this prophetic timeline given to Daniel is week/shabua 7 days or 7 years ?


I'm not trying to be difficult but when the timeline is seven weeks and sixty-two weeks until Messiah the Prince then please calculate and show when the Messiah would come the first time.
Please start your own thread about this. I won't be responding to your posts anymore.
 

Zoidberg

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Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
101
Apocalypse Thoughts

There won't be an apocalypse anytime soon, so you can be thankful, for your precious life. I think personally that society will expand and eventually have the technology to expand to other planets. It'll be like an episode of Futurama. Technology is always upgrading; there will be pioneers, who will stop evil technology, that'll be revered in history books. The only way the apocalypse, I think, can happen is AI & Robots take over the human race. Eventually, if we aren't careful about managing Robots & AI freedom, they can take over our world. Another reason for an apocalypse is meds & pills, if we become too addicted, and giving corrupt companies more money. They will drive the world and dominate local businesses and rule all of humanity, as we know it. Meds are great, but the companies behind them are not, we must buy local & sell locally.
 
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