A question about the honesty of the intelligence claims to be God!

Cintra

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I'm simply passing on the words of God and Jesus, so be careful or you'll never get through the pearlies..:)
Jesus said- "Whoever's ashamed of me and my words, I'll be ashamed of him" (Mark 8:38 )
Jesus said that all the poor people would get through those Pearlie gates.

Jesus said "I Bless those poor people.They get into heaven for free! They ain't got no money, so they getting heavenly gold."
 






Cintra

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Look at it another way mate, I'm an anti-Establishment rebel and became a Christian because Jesus is an anti-Estab rebel too, and we refuse pointblank to dance to the Estab's tune and have freed ourselves from its clutches, that's why the Estab hates Christianity so much..:)
Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune......God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Matt 11:16/17,Luke 4:18 )
Lol

You are total establishment.
You grassed your neighbours to the police, you fly the flag for god queen and country.
 






TokiEl

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Assume on the very first day when Gabriel speaks to prophet Muhammad tells him that Jesus is not the Son of God. And Gabriel also states that Allah is the God. Since prophet Muhammad has no clue who this intelligence is, he goes to so many Christian leaders and tries to clarify this point (If prophet Muhammad was an educated person, he would know that Jesus is the son of God as per Christians, instead of a prophet. And he should know that an intelligence claims to be God spoke to them first by telling Jesus is his son. So they are the best people to clarify this point more than anyone else). So if Prophet Muhammad tells the Christian leaders that Jesus is not the son of God and also tells them that Allah is the true God, what kind of response we can expect to hear from the Christian leaders? Will they tell prophet Muhammad that the claim made by the intelligence is true?
It's very simple... the quran was dictated by the devil.


How can you be 100% certain about that you ask ? Because the Bible says so...

Study Isaiah 14:12-15 and understand it is foretelling that the devil will put up temple in Jerusalem.


Now the Bible also foretold that the pope who is somewhat of a chief christian in the world... is the antichrist.

So a lot of christians are ignorants as well... not only our muslim friends.


Jesus Christ is God... and He is coming soon to judge the dead and the quick.

Repent repent and repent !



John 5 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
 






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Tidal

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Jesus said that all the poor people would get through those Pearlie gates.
Jesus said "I Bless those poor people.They get into heaven for free! They ain't got no money, so they getting heavenly gold."

The poor won't get through the pearlies unless they're Christians.
Rich peoples chance of getting through are practically zero because they've been selfishly hoarding their money instead of spreading it around.
 






Tidal

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You are total establishment.
You grassed your neighbours to the police, you fly the flag for god queen and country.

Haha I was expelled from school in the 1960's because I couldn't be bothered to learn useless stuff, I was a rebel then and i've been one all my life..:)
As for my "neighbours", they were a gang of black drug dealers selling drugs to the kids from the school across the road..:)
England is a great Christian country so yes, I'm proud to be English, we civilised half the world, and in fact the world loves us so much that immigrants are coming here in their thousands).. :p

 






Tidal

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Now the Bible also foretold that the pope who is somewhat of a chief christian in the world... is the antichrist.
So a lot of christians are ignorants as well... not only our muslim friends.
Jesus Christ is God... and He is coming soon to judge the dead and the quick.

1- Yes, Catholicism has got satans fingerprints all over it.
2- Jesus is not God, he simply does what God tells him to do-
"These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me" (John 14:23)
 






Cintra

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The poor won't get through the pearlies unless they're Christians.
Rich peoples chance of getting through are practically zero because they've been selfishly hoarding their money instead of spreading it around.
Jesus said it.
If you want to argue, you had best take it up with him.
Jesus said "I bless the poor people with a free ride to heaven"
Luke 6.20.
 






Cintra

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Haha I was expelled from school in the 1960's because I couldn't be bothered to learn useless stuff, I was a rebel then and i've been one all my life..:)
As for my "neighbours", they were a gang of black drug dealers selling drugs to the kids from the school across the road..:)
England is a great Christian country so yes, I'm proud to be English, we civilised half the world, and in fact the world loves us so much that immigrants are coming here in their thousands).. :p

Its not a christian country,its a multi-faith community, and what did the drug dealers skin colour have to do with anything?
 






Tidal

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Jesus said it.
If you want to argue, you had best take it up with him.
Jesus said "I bless the poor people with a free ride to heaven"
Luke 6.20.
Actually his exact words were- “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God"

but if they're not Christians they ain't going there..:)
Logic it out, there must be poor muslims, buddhists, hindus and atheists etc but if they think being poor guarantees them a free ride to the pearlies they're going to be very disappointed.
Remember, heaven is an exclusive Christian gated community, so no way will Jesus-rejecters get in even if they're poor, and the bouncer there will tell them-


"On yer bikes!"
 






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Tidal

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Its not a christian country,its a multi-faith community, and what did the drug dealers skin colour have to do with anything?
Christianity is the biggest game on the park.. :p



and if drug pushers were chinese, russian, aborigine, klingon, romulan etc, I'd say so..:)
 






Cintra

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Actually his exact words were- “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God"

but if they're not Christians they ain't going there..:)
Logic it out, there must be poor muslims, buddhists, hindus and atheists etc but if they think being poor guarantees them a free ride to the pearlies they're going to be very disappointed.
Remember, heaven is an exclusive Christian gated community, so no way will Jesus-rejecters get in even if they're poor, and the bouncer there will tell them-


"On yer bikes!"
No, all poor people.
You wouldnt be calling jesus a liar, would you?
 






TokiEl

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2- Jesus is not God, he simply does what God tells him to do-
"These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me" (John 14:23)
Jesus is God according to the Bible.


John 20 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


Titus 2 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.


Colossians 2 8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ. 9
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,


Etc etc etc.....
 






Cintra

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Christianity is the biggest game on the park.. :p



and if drug pushers were chinese, russian, aborigine, klingon, romulan etc, I'd say so..:)
Then why did you raise their colour, as though it had something to do with their behaviour?

So... Biggest game on the block...
Typical establishment thinking. If you gonna join a gang, its gonna be the biggest?
Also I see from the graph that you group yourself with catholics, seventh day adventists, and Jehovah's witnesses.
You can tell a lot about a person from they company they keep.
 






Tidal

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No, all poor people.
You wouldnt be calling jesus a liar, would you?
I hope you're not one of them fire-and-brimstone fundy preachers who take every word in the bible literally and out of context?
For example Jesus said "buy swords" but everybody knows he didn't mean it literally..:)
 






Tidal

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Jesus is God according to the Bible.

Oh yeah, well why did he say he wasn't God?..:p
Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
God himself said -"This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

 






Cintra

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I hope you're not one of them fire-and-brimstone fundy preachers who take every word in the bible literally and out of context?
For example Jesus said "buy swords" but everybody knows he didn't mean it literally..:)
"All the poor people will go to heaven", said Jesus. And the Pharisees and the Sadducees castigated him greatly, saying "They are not worthy". But Jesus rebuked them mightily saying "Who art thou to judge, for are they not all my children and the children of my Father, he who is God, and he that owns said keys to said pearlies?"
 






TokiEl

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Oh yeah, well why did he say he wasn't God?..:p
Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
God himself said -"This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
Jesus said He is God.


John 8 23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

John 17 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.



Etc etc etc....
 






DanRaleigh

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your controversy is just your own ignorance.
It's like asking
'why didn't Jesus really speak to the rabbis clearly? why was he using ambiguous language and constantly attacking them?'

they carried a message, their job wasnt to go on 'uniting' people. the truth they represented was meant to seperate the wheat from the chaff. it's meant to expose ignorance aswell.
@AspiringSoul, My bad, my earlier reply to you wasn't that good. Anyway, let me address the issue of your statements:

'why didn't Jesus really speak to the rabbis clearly?" Even if Jesus had spoken to Jewish leaders, still Jewish leaders would have rejected Jesus. But if God had spoken to Jewish leaders and clarified the controversial nature of the events, then Jewish leaders would have accepted Jesus since they(Jewish leaders) believed their God is the true God.

You made another statement which is: "carried a message, their job wasnt to go on 'uniting' people." Let me show you the issue here: God appointed Moses and others as prophets to let us know his word. It didn't work as planned cause someone confused Jewish people or for some reason they ended up having a misunderstanding and this created the religious belief that we call Judaism. While God knowing this issue, he sent his son to Earth. Although he sent his son to Earth, he never made a logical/meaningful attempt to help them to figure out why their belief is false. Instead, this time, he created Christianity. So, the story tells us that while God supposes to bring harmony to Earth, his actions created conflicts on Earth (if God exists as you believe, these are huge issues that we cannot ignore) and we still have very little understanding of what created these issues. For almost 2000 years we can't find God or the angels. If angels or God truly care about human lives, they had plenty of time to communicate with us in a logical/meaningful way, so we could have fixed the issues but this never happened. Because of these issues, how can we come to the conclusion that God indeed spoke to us if he actually exists?

It doesn't feel easy to answer without knowing what you believe. Your writing sounds like it's coming from a background of atheism. Either way, I can point out that looking at the Abrahamic religions in a broader context gives us some answers. They might not be the answers you want to hear, though.

If you measure with your preconceived notions of good/bad, then, of course, your conclusion will be skewed. That's also a logical fallacy. More importantly, good/bad is the wrong measurement for the substance of religion. The right measurement is something called impact. And I would make this same argument to any atheist, so take notes.

Look at religion compared to philosophy in terms of impact. There's no philosophy "bible," and nobody goes to Philosophy class every Sunday. I can argue that the more intelligent being knows that faith/spirituality has a greater impact. So that's why we got Abrahamic religions instead of logical atheism.

I would further add that humans needed something to do. Having God solve all our problems would lead to nihilism bro
@Aero , I actually don't have any beliefs about religions (also neither an atheistic belief nor any other belief either), instead, I have come to certain conclusions based on the evidence that I saw. For instance, because of the reported events, I saw that Allah failed to see an obvious issue and I also see the same issue with the intelligence that communicated (assume an intelligence indeed communicated with people) with Jesus.

On the other hand, the issue that I addressed has nothing to do with good or bad. Because of certain events, we can see a conflict on Earth based on religious beliefs. If you say that the conclusions (referring to the original post) that I have arrived from the reported events are wrong, then we can discuss the issue.

Your original post is a lot to digest. I would suggest making a second, more concise post with your main question for clarity. But nevermind - mine is just as long lol

I quoted this part because I think it is interesting.

There are spiritual entities that can present themselves as something they are not. So how do we know the real angel Gabriel, or any other angel, presented itself to a person? In other words, given the nature of spirits, how do we know whether the spirit/angel is not actually an entity with deceptive intent but posing itself as something of "truth".

The important thing to note is spirits cannot engage in the physical realm without some form of permission. For instance, with a secular example, many scientists at cern did not believe in a spiritual realm. However, through their experimentation with atomic bombardment, they picked up images of spiritual entities. My point is their action was an invitation for certain spirits to manifest on our physical technology.

With this in mind, the same can be done in our personal lives. Our actions can invite certain entities to attach themselves or manifest themselves in our lives. We can either conduct actions that attract holiness and angelic spirits or actions that attract demonic entities. If a person is meditating in order to invoke spirit(s) and communicate with them, and then encounters a spirit... how can we validate this spirit is from God? Well we can Look at its fruit. Listen to what it says. But then we can also assess what the person was doing when he/she encountered the spirit. Were their lactions in line with God or not? What does God say about meditation? Meditation by the sea, under the sun, moon or under trees?

Given God, and his record of faithfulness/being true to his word, was already in place (historically and spiritually) before Muhammad was born, whatever an angel claims to Muhammad must be in align with what God has already spoken/established. If it is not in line with that, then in this context it is not viewed as truth.

The Bible says there are spirits that disguise themselves as angels of light. When new agers are meditating and conducting their rituals, they claim to see an entity that appears as the catholic visionary of Jesus Christ (Caucasian with facial hair). At the same time, there are luciferian groups that speak to a spirit called lord sananda matreya that looks like the new age Jesus Christ AND the catholic Jesus Christ. So, what is the truth? Are these all the same spirit? And is this really Jesus christ of the Bible? Well no. The spirit suggests for individuals to become their own gods. That sounds familiar (genesis - garden of eden). This is the complete opposite of what Jesus christ of the Bible spoke of - all of which is historically accounted for in the Bible and other ancient texts (he went through an entire "court" trial due to his claims).

Basically it depends on the standard of which you use as reference for the claims. There is countless secular and religious evidence supporting the Bible as historically accurate and original. Hence why many ancient texts are compared to the Bible for cultural and historical (time line) context.
@craniumind , I wish I could address the issues related Abrahamic religions in one or two words. If you believe that the father of Jesus is the true God, how can you explain this?

Let's say the father of Jesus is the true God and he sent his son to Earth to help humanity 2000+ years ago. But now the question is why didn't he speak to Jewish leaders and tell them that he is sending his son to Earth? Why this is an issue? Because of the reported events, we know that Christianity is based on the Hebrew Bible and Christians believe that Hebrew Bible has the word of God (the word of the father of Jesus). Therefore, we can say that either father of Jesus (God) has spoken to Jewish people or at least we can say that the beliefs of Jewish leaders/people had when Jesus was on Earth were due to the actions performed by the father of Jesus(God). Therefore, the father of Jesus (God) should be responsible for the religious belief that Jewish leaders/people were having at that time (if we consider this line of thinking).

Although the father of Jesus (God) knew that the beliefs of Jewish leaders/people (God should know the cause of confusion), he did not say a word to Jewish leaders/people; and the intelligence claims to be God completely neglected the issue or did not make any logical/meaningful effort to fix the issue (If God was thinking that just by talking to Jesus directly and/or Jesus showing miracles to people would be enough for Jewish people to know that God has sent a prophet or his son to Earth, that's bad judgment. And that implies the intelligence claims to be God who communicated with Jesus had no clue how to resolve complicated human issues). Overall, the story of Jesus tells that, instead of God fixing the issue—by sending his son to Earth—he ended up creating another religion on Earth (His actions have already created Judaism by this time). By doing so, he made the situation worst. Because now Jewish people and Christian people even found reasons to argue and even to kill each other based on religious beliefs. Who is responsible? The intelligence claims to be God (or the father of Jesus). Because of these issues, either we have to say that the intelligence claims to be God has no knowledge or critical thinking ability to resolve human issues or if not we were communicating with an intelligence who deceived our civilization. If not, what reasoning can be used to explain this? What can we say about these controversies when we consider the parallels mentioned in this overall research?

@Wigi, @TokiEl , please refer to the reply that I made to craniumind.

@Fajr, although you have come to the conclusion that Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah, Christians are not having the same belief. They believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Although their belief is false (another conclusion that you seem to have arrived), Allah's actions created Christianity (their beliefs) because of his work with Jesus. So, having paganism and Buddhism, and other religions during this period is actually not the issue. This is why I asked the following question earlier:

Let's say after Allah spreading his word about the Quran by appointing Jesus as a prophet, Satan confused Christian leaders. However, then that means, Allah knew exactly that Christian leaders were deceived by Satan after he sending Jesus. But Allah did not say anything to Christian leaders (till the 7th century and even up to this day, he totally neglected the issue) and instead of fixing the issue, he used the prophet Muhammad and worked with him for 22/23 years (had enough time to fix it) to spread the word about the Quran. By sending the Quran, he made the situation worst. Cause now Christians and Muslim people have a reason to argue and kill each other as well based on religious beliefs.

Therefore, if we take this hypothesis to Justify Allah's work, this hypothesis tells us that Allah or the intelligence claims to be God has no knowledge or critical thinking ability to resolve human issues, other than creating more and more conflicts among people or if not, this whole story implies that an intelligence was deceiving prophet Muhammad.

This is not the only issue, the story tells us that he spoke to Moses and others as well, and that also created a religious belief, which we call Judaism. When he appointed Jesus as a prophet, he ignored Jewish people as well, and instead of helping them to understand their false beliefs and correcting them, his actions ended up creating Christianity as well. So my question is, how can we explain these controversies? If so, based on what reasoning?

The first one.

But we don't even need to discuss Muhammad to know this if we approach the theological arguments made (or insinuated) in your incoherent, convoluted post. Basically, Islam is an ontologically defective religion that can't conceive of God outside of quantitative categories and is therefore fixated on the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. This is evident when you make such absurd claims as God not making a "logical" attempt to be understood, and then present illogical meanderings about Jesus.

You know, even if you proved that God is quantitatively one in his personhood so that the Son is not of the same essence as the Father, it doesn't logically follow that Islam's other claims about Jesus have to be accepted, right? There is literally no reason for anyone to accept that Jesus is even "just a prophet" other than "the Qur'an says so". Besides, who is this Jesus of Islam anyway? Can Muslims tell us anything about where he was born, which period he lived in and what he taught by only using the Qur'an? You first have to convince people that Jesus was someone worth caring about before even considering whether he was "no more than a messenger of God".

But of course, the doctrine of Islam does not actually evangelize the godless, those to whom the Qur'an was allegedly revealed (except maybe with wild theories about "scientific miracles of the Qur'an"); it is mostly predicated on belief in the Bible and dispelling "false beliefs" about "what was previously revealed", which as this thread shows, is why these polemics are invariably targeted at Christians (despite the usual pleading about "Abrahamic religions"). These topics can only be recycled so many times before they go beyond the point of amusement and seem like hopeless cries of desperation. People are a lot smarter than Muslims give them credit for and, I dare say, are tired of having their intelligence insulted.
@recure, please refer to the reply that I made to @craniumind.
 






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Daze

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You really need to stop using these graphs while you say 1 billion Christians aren't Christian. I mean you reject their faith yourself. Why do you keep referencing them to serve whatever point it is you're trying to make? It only makes you look like a hypocrite.

Sides, you are TOTAL establishment. If there were paid shills here you'd definitely be one. From your pro-mask views to your complete belief in the official narrative to 9/11.
 






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