A question about the honesty of the intelligence claims to be God!

DanRaleigh

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I have asked this question in a comment but then again I thought it's good to open up a thread to discuss this issue. First of all, don't take me wrongly, you all are great people. So, I'm not asking these questions to personally attack you. Instead, I'm asking these questions to show an obvious issue with Abrahamic religions as in general (Including Judaism/Christianity).

Here is a hypothetical scenario to explain the issue:

Assume on the very first day when Gabriel speaks to prophet Muhammad tells him that Jesus is not the Son of God. And Gabriel also states that Allah is the God. Since prophet Muhammad has no clue who this intelligence is, he goes to so many Christian leaders and tries to clarify this point (If prophet Muhammad was an educated person, he would know that Jesus is the son of God as per Christians, instead of a prophet. And he should know that an intelligence claims to be God spoke to them first by telling Jesus is his son. So they are the best people to clarify this point more than anyone else). So if Prophet Muhammad tells the Christian leaders that Jesus is not the son of God and also tells them that Allah is the true God, what kind of response we can expect to hear from the Christian leaders? Will they tell prophet Muhammad that the claim made by the intelligence is true?

Why this is an issue?

Based on recorded events we know that either Christian leaders would think that prophet Muhammad is crazy to think that Allah is the God or if not Christian leaders would think that an intelligence is deceiving prophet Muhammad (Cause by the 7th century, Christian leaders and Christians believed/know Jesus is the son of God. They knew this even before Prophet Muhammad was born to the world). Because of this controversy, a person could even ask from prophet Muhammad, that "what was the reason for you to conclude that Allah is the God and Jesus is just a prophet?" The evidence indicates that this conclusion was solely was due to the claim made by the intelligence who spoke to him and few people (how did they know Allah is the God and Jesus is not the son of God?). This conflict of beliefs/claims is a huge problem in Abrahamic religions(and you already know this).

(To make sense of this issue, you can also imagine the scenario where an intelligence speaking to you today and telling you that Leonardo is the God and Jesus is a prophet sent by God(Leonardo). And now you are conveying this message to Christian leaders. What will they think of you? Crazy? Or someone is deceiving you? On the other hand, someone can ask you, “how did you come to the conclusion that Jesus is not the Son of God?; how do you know if an intelligence is not deceiving you?” In the case of prophet Muhammad "how did prophet Muhammad come to the conclusion that Allah is the God and Jesus is not the Son of God? And how he came to know that the intelligence was lying or not?". Also, imagine the situation if someone tells Muslim people and Christian people today that Leonardo is the God. Further, that Allah is not the God and Jesus is not the Son of God either. What will they think of the individual?

(To resolve the issue with the name of the God, today, someone can even point to the Bible and show that the word "Allah" was there in the Bible, but that doesn't explain the issue in a positive. Jewish people or Christian people who lived in the 7th century should not refer to books and decode words to understand who Allah is or to know the meaning of "Allah". Therefore, still, it shows that Allah did not take any logical/meaningful attempt to make Christian/Jewish leaders understand who Allah/God is, neither the Quran")

So, when we consider this 7th-century conundrum, we know that both beliefs can't be true. Therefore, it's apparent that either:

i). Someone deceived prophet Muhammad.

ii). If not we can say that someone has deceived Christian leaders.

To fix this issue, let's say that someone says that Christianity was created by Satan or Satan confused the minds of Christian leaders. Regardless of the reason, we know that the Quran clearly says the following:

i).Quran 3:42 '... O Mary! God has chosen you and purified you and again he has chosen you above all women of all nations of the worlds'

Quran 5:75 '... His (Jesus) mother (Mary) was a woman of truth.'

Quran 21:91 'And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of our spirit and we made her and her son a sign for all peoples.'

Quran 3:3 'She was assigned to the care of Zachariah.' (Guardian & Uncle)

Source: https://www.islamicity.org/5645/mary-and-jesus-in-islam/

ii). According to another source: “Islam honors all the prophets who were sent to mankind. Muslims respect all prophets in general, but Jesus in particular, because he was one of the prophets who foretold the coming of Muhammad. Muslims, too, await the second coming of Jesus. They consider him one of the greatest of Allah's prophets to mankind. A Muslim does not refer to him simply as "Jesus," but normally adds the phrase "peace be upon him" as a sign of respect. No other religion in the world respects and dignifies Jesus as Islam does. The Qur'an confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Qur'an is entitled "Mary"), and Mary is considered to have been one of the purest women in all creation. The Qur'an describes Jesus' birth as follows:”

"Behold!' the Angel said, God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations. Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him, whose name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and in the Hereafter, and one of those brought near to God. He shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and he shall be of the righteous. She said: "My Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?' He said: "Even so; God creates what He will. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, 'Be!' and it is." [3:42-47]

"Truly, the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, 'Be!' and he was." [3:59]

Source: https://www.lansingislam.com/jesus-in-islam.html/

Meaning, whatever Christian leaders believed during this period, is because of Allah's actions (if we consider this line of thinking). Let's say after Allah spreading his word about the Quran by appointing Jesus as a prophet, Satan confused Christian leaders. However, then that means, Allah knew exactly that Christian leaders were deceived by Satan after he sending Jesus. But Allah did not say anything to Christian leaders (till the 7th century and even up to this day, he totally neglected the issue) and instead of fixing the issue, he used the prophet Muhammad and worked with him for 22/23 years (had enough time to fix it) to spread the word about the Quran. By sending the Quran, he made the situation worst. Cause now Christians and Muslim people have a reason to argue and kill each other as well based on religious beliefs.

Therefore, Allah, or the intelligence claims to be God, should have made a logical attempt to resolve the issue (Instead of spending time in establishing Islam, the intelligence has never given any logical/meaningful attempt to resolve the issue). Since Allah has ignored the issue completely, as stated earlier, this raises questions about the true intention/honesty of the intelligence claims to be God. An intelligence who truly cares about human beings and also an intelligence who is able to critically think when making decisions (who could actually foresee future issues), would not act this way. If Allah thought that just by showing miracles or sending a book over the period of 22/23 years would have resolved the conflicts, then that means Allah is lacking critical thinking ability. Therefore, if we take this hypothesis to Justify Allah's work, this hypothesis tells us that Allah or the intelligence claims to be God has no knowledge or critical thinking ability to resolve human issues, other than creating more and more conflicts among people or if not, this whole story implies that an intelligence was deceiving prophet Muhammad.

On the other hand, if Allah actually wanted to resolve human issues, he should have chosen an educated person who lived in that era. An illiterate person showing certain miracles would have surely impressed people but resolving complicated human conflicts, not the best choice; and we all know this. Therefore, actions of this intelligence claims to be God gives us an indication that the intention of intelligence was to impress people and establish Islam only. Not to resolve any conflict among our civilization (We know how hard is to find answers to human conflicts; especially if conflicts are based on religious beliefs. It's insane if someone thinks that coded books that showing advanced scientific knowledge, miraculous acts of a person, and illiterate individuals, can resolve these conflicts). How can we explain these controversies? If so, based on what reasoning?
 






DesertRose

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Hi Dan, I think this is a good discussion and welcome again.
I just got out from a hospital yesterday evening for a minor surgery and will revisit your discussion at a later date.
I am posting resources pertinent to this discussion: Hope it helps!
Guidelines of the true religion
What are the attributes of the correct religion?

Evidence for the validity of Islam

What is the true meaning of shirk and what are its types?

 






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Tidal

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It all boils down to credentials..:)
Jesus's credentials were literally out of this world, for example he openly said-
"I am not of this world.." (John 8:23)

And said he'd come to fulfil the ancient prophecies about him-
"All things about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)

And that God himself had sent him-
"I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

And said people could see God's power flowing through him-
"..even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."- (John 10:38 )

But his biggest credential is that he's not a corpse in a grave like all the founders of other religions..;)


 






DanRaleigh

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Hi DesertRose, Many thanks for the links. I think, I cannot find a proper answer for the questions that I raised from your links. Perhaps someone else might answer.

@Tidal, I did not find an answer to my question from your comment either.
 






Tidal

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..No other religion in the world respects and dignifies Jesus as Islam does.

If Muslims (and Jews) respected Jesus and God, they wouldn't call him and God liars for saying he was the Son of God..;)
God said - "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

 






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Tidal

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Tidal, I did not find an answer to my question from your comment either.

You asked- A question about the honesty of the intelligence claims to be God!

Well, the Christian God said through Jesus "Be good, kind decent people", which sounds intelligent to me..:)
For example even today muslims kill adulteresses in Allah's name, but Jesus went around rescuing them from the jewish mobs..

 






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Awoken2

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The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?
This is a bit rich coming from you. Your multiple words on numerous threads have no value other than to post bible passages. It's been done before. You are not bringing anything of any value to any thread other than to troll and derail and to try and spread your own personal indoctrination.

Some people put effort and research into what they post here and it takes "many words" to try and get their message across.

Unlike you who appears to be a nothing more than a bad distraction and woefully tedious meme artist.

No offence, just saying it as it is.
 






Tidal

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This is a bit rich coming from you. Your multiple words on numerous threads have no value other than to post bible passages.

I'm simply passing on the words of God and Jesus, so be careful or you'll never get through the pearlies..:)
Jesus said- "Whoever's ashamed of me and my words, I'll be ashamed of him" (Mark 8:38 )
 






Awoken2

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I'm simply passing on the words of God and Jesus, so be careful or you'll never get through the pearlies..:)
Jesus said- "Whoever's ashamed of me and my words, I'll be ashamed of him" (Mark 8:38 )
You ain't passing on Jack that ain't been passed on before. Your just a biblical photocopier.
 






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1)
And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #48)


the differences here are for us to discuss and contemplate to get a better measure of who we are.

2) an example of the above is this

the 'Son of God' (Ben Elohim) was a judaic term given metaphorically to the LOGOS which was a greek term.
The Logos concept would have been akin to 'new age philosophy' for the jews at that time. If you study jewish history you'd know that whenever they adopted the traditions and beliefs of foreign nations, they suffered. The idea of jews suddenly believing in the Logos made no sense to the ave jew. They were SUPPOSED TO REJECT IT!!
i mean even in the prophecies in Zechariah and by the words of Jesus and Paul too, the jews were by their own standards supposed to reject Jesus.
'by their tresspass the gentiles have been reckoned'.
Hence that process of 'gentiles being grafted in' goes on to establish christianity and islam. That too is the fulfillment of prophecy.

The Logos was an indian/persian and egyptian belief, an ancient one...coming into judaism. It was merged into jewish thought with metaphysical language and assigned to the messiah.
The philosopher Philo likened the Logos to the 'Image of God'.
It was Philo first and foremost who made the connection by deliberately referring to the Logos/Image of God as 'The Son of God'.
Still within this there was a metaphysical belief eg the incarnation of the Logos was the incarnation of Vishnu, the universal spirit/consciousness.


So what's the problem?
the problem is that non-judaic, gentile christians, romans/greeks, saxons and all the rest..come along and read 'Son of God', take it literally with no depth behind that and just roll with it.
It is actually scary how dumb as fk the ave christian really is. Seriously, you're going to go on about 'Mohammad should have been more intelligent' whilst ignoring the fact that 99.99% of christians are the dumbest of the dumb on all things religion.

How difficult is it for an ave christian to admit that 'The son of God is just metaphorical language and isnt to be taken literally nor is it the all important idea, the underlying idea it represents is the incarnation of the Logos, therefore if someone believes Jesus is the incarnation of the Logos, then that person by extention does belief in 'The Son of God' without even using that term'.

So islam came along in a time when the ave person was illiterate and ignorant. The ave christian would be devoid of any knowledge of hellenistic-judaic contexts, just taking 'The Son of God' absolutely literally. The ave arab being pagan would mock that and refer to their own beliefs which contained similar ideas. Mohammad wanting to get rid of polythiesm would not be using 'son of God' at all.
What he did use was 'The Kalam of Allah'. Kalam being the arabic for Logos.

Since islam believes Jesus is the 'Kalam of Allah made flesh', it definately means islam is aligned with the same original truth without getting bogged down into the contexts of hellenised judaism in the 1st century.

3) 'Jesus is JUST A PROPHET' well no, because islam clearly says Jesus is the 'Kalam of Allah' and the Messiah!!
What Jesus is NOT is 'God/Allah'...

case in point, an evidence against the utter filth and stupidity of the ave christian inc those on this forum

Jesus himself referred to psalm 110 when the rabbis called him 'lord', which means he was acknowledging that psalm 110 speaks of HIM.
psalm 110 reveals that THE GOD is ADONAI..
whilst Jesus the messiah, is adoni ie 'lord'
adoni can be given to anyone considered your superior. for example lord alan sugar = adoni, right? by the title itself, he is an adoni. Does that make him God? then why the eff do christians today, who are educated, still think the term 'lord' when applied to Jesus is proof that he's THE God?

another big proof is that the christians insist on quoting Isaiah 53 against muslims, as evidence that Jesus died on the cross.
well, isaiah 53, isaiah 42, they refer to the same person as 'MY SERVANT'

in fact the same christians are so goddamn stupid that they even try to argue with muslims, that 'WE ARE SONS, YOU ARE SERVANTS' and yet THE Son who they believe in is called SERVANT...ABD!!!

the problem here is christians are dumb people, roman pagans masquandering as monothiests.

do you have anything else to say man? i thought i was done with this trash forum and the stupid people on here.
 






Tidal

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..What Jesus is NOT is 'God/Allah'...

Right, we know that because he said so himself..:)
Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
 






Tidal

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..Your multiple words on numerous threads have no value other than to post bible passages..

Wait a minute Charlie, other people are posting Koran quotes so why shouldn't I post Bible stuff to maintain the reputation of VC as a forum for fair, honest and balanced discussion..:p
 






Tidal

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..How difficult is it for an ave christian to admit that 'The son of God is just metaphorical language and isnt to be taken literally..

Look at it another way mate, I'm an anti-Establishment rebel and became a Christian because Jesus is an anti-Estab rebel too, and we refuse pointblank to dance to the Estab's tune and have freed ourselves from its clutches, that's why the Estab hates Christianity so much..:)
Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune......God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Matt 11:16/17,Luke 4:18 )
 






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@Tidal @AspiringSoul How can we explain the controversies that I pointed out with your comments?
your controversy is just your own ignorance.
It's like asking
'why didn't Jesus really speak to the rabbis clearly? why was he using ambiguous language and constantly attacking them?'

they carried a message, their job wasnt to go on 'uniting' people. the truth they represented was meant to seperate the wheat from the chaff. it's meant to expose ignorance aswell.
 






Aero

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It doesn't feel easy to answer without knowing what you believe. Your writing sounds like it's coming from a background of atheism. Either way, I can point out that looking at the Abrahamic religions in a broader context gives us some answers. They might not be the answers you want to hear, though.

If you measure with your preconceived notions of good/bad, then, of course, your conclusion will be skewed. That's also a logical fallacy. More importantly, good/bad is the wrong measurement for the substance of religion. The right measurement is something called impact. And I would make this same argument to any atheist, so take notes.

Look at religion compared to philosophy in terms of impact. There's no philosophy "bible," and nobody goes to Philosophy class every Sunday. I can argue that the more intelligent being knows that faith/spirituality has a greater impact. So that's why we got Abrahamic religions instead of logical atheism.

I would further add that humans needed something to do. Having God solve all our problems would lead to nihilism bro
 






craniumind

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Here is a hypothetical scenario to explain the issue:

Assume on the very first day when Gabriel speaks to prophet Muhammad tells him that Jesus is not the Son of God. And Gabriel also states that Allah is the God. Since prophet Muhammad has no clue who this intelligence is, he goes to so many Christian leaders and tries to clarify this point (If prophet Muhammad was an educated person, he would know that Jesus is the son of God as per Christians, instead of a prophet. And he should know that an intelligence claims to be God spoke to them first by telling Jesus is his son. So they are the best people to clarify this point more than anyone else). So if Prophet Muhammad tells the Christian leaders that Jesus is not the son of God and also tells them that Allah is the true God, what kind of response we can expect to hear from the Christian leaders? Will they tell prophet Muhammad that the claim made by the intelligence is true?

Why this is an issue?
Your original post is a lot to digest. I would suggest making a second, more concise post with your main question for clarity. But nevermind - mine is just as long lol

I quoted this part because I think it is interesting.

There are spiritual entities that can present themselves as something they are not. So how do we know the real angel Gabriel, or any other angel, presented itself to a person? In other words, given the nature of spirits, how do we know whether the spirit/angel is not actually an entity with deceptive intent but posing itself as something of "truth".

The important thing to note is spirits cannot engage in the physical realm without some form of permission. For instance, with a secular example, many scientists at cern did not believe in a spiritual realm. However, through their experimentation with atomic bombardment, they picked up images of spiritual entities. My point is their action was an invitation for certain spirits to manifest on our physical technology.

With this in mind, the same can be done in our personal lives. Our actions can invite certain entities to attach themselves or manifest themselves in our lives. We can either conduct actions that attract holiness and angelic spirits or actions that attract demonic entities. If a person is meditating in order to invoke spirit(s) and communicate with them, and then encounters a spirit... how can we validate this spirit is from God? Well we can Look at its fruit. Listen to what it says. But then we can also assess what the person was doing when he/she encountered the spirit. Were their lactions in line with God or not? What does God say about meditation? Meditation by the sea, under the sun, moon or under trees?

Given God, and his record of faithfulness/being true to his word, was already in place (historically and spiritually) before Muhammad was born, whatever an angel claims to Muhammad must be in align with what God has already spoken/established. If it is not in line with that, then in this context it is not viewed as truth.

The Bible says there are spirits that disguise themselves as angels of light. When new agers are meditating and conducting their rituals, they claim to see an entity that appears as the catholic visionary of Jesus Christ (Caucasian with facial hair). At the same time, there are luciferian groups that speak to a spirit called lord sananda matreya that looks like the new age Jesus Christ AND the catholic Jesus Christ. So, what is the truth? Are these all the same spirit? And is this really Jesus christ of the Bible? Well no. The spirit suggests for individuals to become their own gods. That sounds familiar (genesis - garden of eden). This is the complete opposite of what Jesus christ of the Bible spoke of - all of which is historically accounted for in the Bible and other ancient texts (he went through an entire "court" trial due to his claims).

Basically it depends on the standard of which you use as reference for the claims. There is countless secular and religious evidence supporting the Bible as historically accurate and original. Hence why many ancient texts are compared to the Bible for cultural and historical (time line) context.
 






Wigi

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Jesus told us :
"Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved."
Matthew 24:11‭-‬13

"the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you."
John 16:2‭-‬4

The human heart is just so corrupt that the Law given by God isn't able to make a single good person. It's not a God problem it's a human ego problem as it seeks to throw all good behaviors under the bus.

Two kids can argue that they have the best teacher but if both cheat and violate the rules given by said teacher, that's not the teacher's fault.
 






Fajr

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Assume on the very first day when Gabriel speaks to prophet Muhammad tells him that Jesus is not the Son of God. And Gabriel also states that Allah is the God. Since prophet Muhammad has no clue who this intelligence is, he goes to so many Christian leaders and tries to clarify this point (If prophet Muhammad was an educated person, he would know that Jesus is the son of God as per Christians, instead of a prophet. And he should know that an intelligence claims to be God spoke to them first by telling Jesus is his son. So they are the best people to clarify this point more than anyone else). So if Prophet Muhammad tells the Christian leaders that Jesus is not the son of God and also tells them that Allah is the true God, what kind of response we can expect to hear from the Christian leaders? Will they tell prophet Muhammad that the claim made by the intelligence is true?
The first revelations to the prophet were not for arguing with Christians initially. The prevailing religion at the time was paganism and so the message of the prophet, like every other prophet, is to call people to one God (Allah is the Arabic word for God).

21:25
We never sent a messenger before you ˹O Prophet˺ without revealing to him: “There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Me, so worship Me ˹alone˺.”

57:26
We sent Noah and Abraham, and gave prophethood and scripture to their offspring: among them there were some who were rightly guided, but many were lawbreakers.

instead of fixing the issue, he used the prophet Muhammad and worked with him for 22/23 years (had enough time to fix it) to spread the word about the Quran
Therefore, Allah, or the intelligence claims to be God, should have made a logical attempt to resolve the issue (Instead of spending time in establishing Islam, the intelligence has never given any logical/meaningful attempt to resolve the issue).
To set the tone first, the message of Jesus was always the same as the Prophet Muhammad, so practically nothing new was introduced to the message. Torah, Gospel, and Quran are all God's books and are his words. The message of prophet Muhammad has always been the same as all prophets and as usual, throughout the history of this message, this message gets its share of rejections and slanders.

Jesus said:
3:51
God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him- that is a straight path.”’ 3:52 When Jesus realized they [still] did not believe, he said, ‘Who will help me in God’s cause?’ The disciples said, ‘We will be God’s helpers; we believe in God- witness our devotion to Him.

In the translation above it says "witness our devotion to Him" however the translation takes away a very important word in Arabic which is Mulsims. The original text says "witness that we are Muslims" but the translators will try to translate meaning according to their understanding (the meaning of the Arabic word Muslim in that context). My point from this is notice that the message of Islam is present throughout all prophets that in fact all prophets were Muslims.

2:131
His Lord said to him, ‘Devote yourself to Me.’ Abraham replied, ‘I devote myself to the Lord of the Universe,’

"Devote yourself to me" is a translation to a single word in Arabic Aslem (which is derived from Islam) Similarly "I devote myself" is Aslamt.

The prophet's creed is the same as Abraham's. The reality is, Muhammad's creed is nothing but a following to Abraham's.

16:123
Then We revealed to you [Muhammad], ‘Follow the creed of Abraham, a man of pure faith who was not an idolater.’
Now once the covenant gets broken, once the people of the book strayed from the following of this creed, they became Jews and Christians (different creeds). (now Christian is not the correct translation, since being a Christian means you are following the Christ, but in a literal way, that is not happening).

2:135
They say, ‘Become Jews or Christians, and you will be rightly guided.’ Say [Prophet], ‘No, [ours is] the religion of Abraham, the upright, who did not worship any god besides God.’

Now your question is why to create conflict from the first place? The reality is, the conflict should not exist for the people of the book (Christians and Jews) because the message of the prophet was something they can identify very easily. Jesus message was to confirm what was before him of Torah and to bring them back to Abraham's creed and to Jews this was easy to verify and identify as truth.

Jesus said:
3:50
I have come to confirm the truth of the Torah which preceded me, and to make some things lawful to you which used to be forbidden. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. Be mindful of God, obey me

Similarly, Quran's purpose was not to create conflict but to unite the people the book and confirm what was before it of Torah and Gospel.

3:3
Step by step, He has sent the Scripture down to you [Prophet] with the Truth, confirming what went before: He sent down the Torah and the Gospel

Many of the people of the book knew that this is the truth yet they rejected it out of many reasons including pride and loss of social positions.

2:89
When a Scripture came to them from God confirming what they already had, and when they had been praying for victory against the disbelievers, even when there came to them something they knew [to be true], they disbelieved in it: God rejects those who disbelieve.

2:109
Even after the truth has become clear to them, many of the People of the Book wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of their selfish envy. Forgive and forbear until God gives his command: He has power over all things.

This takes us to the next point which you mentioned is why the prophet was illiterate? The prophet never had any prior knowledge to the scriptures of the people of the book and this is yet sealed even more by the fact that he was illiterate. It is very easy to verify that his revelation is true by the same people of the book by simply asking them about his revelations, which can't be mixed nor previously taken from any prior knowledge of their scriptures.

42:52
So We have revealed a spirit to you [Prophet] by Our command: you knew neither the Scripture nor the faith, but We made it a light, guiding with it whoever We will of Our servants. You give guidance to the straight path,
 






recure

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So, when we consider this 7th-century conundrum, we know that both beliefs can't be true. Therefore, it's apparent that either:

i). Someone deceived prophet Muhammad.

ii). If not we can say that someone has deceived Christian leaders.
The first one.

But we don't even need to discuss Muhammad to know this if we approach the theological arguments made (or insinuated) in your incoherent, convoluted post. Basically, Islam is an ontologically defective religion that can't conceive of God outside of quantitative categories and is therefore fixated on the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. This is evident when you make such absurd claims as God not making a "logical" attempt to be understood, and then present illogical meanderings about Jesus.

You know, even if you proved that God is quantitatively one in his personhood so that the Son is not of the same essence as the Father, it doesn't logically follow that Islam's other claims about Jesus have to be accepted, right? There is literally no reason for anyone to accept that Jesus is even "just a prophet" other than "the Qur'an says so". Besides, who is this Jesus of Islam anyway? Can Muslims tell us anything about where he was born, which period he lived in and what he taught by only using the Qur'an? You first have to convince people that Jesus was someone worth caring about before even considering whether he was "no more than a messenger of God".

But of course, the doctrine of Islam does not actually evangelize the godless, those to whom the Qur'an was allegedly revealed (except maybe with wild theories about "scientific miracles of the Qur'an"); it is mostly predicated on belief in the Bible and dispelling "false beliefs" about "what was previously revealed", which as this thread shows, is why these polemics are invariably targeted at Christians (despite the usual pleading about "Abrahamic religions"). These topics can only be recycled so many times before they go beyond the point of amusement and seem like hopeless cries of desperation. People are a lot smarter than Muslims give them credit for and, I dare say, are tired of having their intelligence insulted.
 






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