16 Year OId bashed online by group of MGTOW. What is this movement?

[TempestOfTempo]

Steinem again:

Satanic.

Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

-Leviticus 18:21

I think its fantastic that you are calling this out. People act like its some sort of shady, super-secret, sort-of-true rumor/conspiracy. Steinem and her ilks true intentions are well documented by their own rhetoric and the results of their efforts. However if I understand Mecca's position correctly, it is that Steinam and etc. don't represent actual feminism. In actuality they are representing exactly the kind of neo-liberal nightmare you are calling out in your fine posts here.......

 

[mecca]

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one. It is a way of forcing women in a certain direction." -Simone de Beauvoir

If society is pressuring someone into a decision, then it's not a fully conscious choice. If there is a bunch of pressure for you to take your life in a certain direction then you will do it and it will be out of obligation. Society does have to change the way we see women in order to give women full autonomy and I think we have in some ways. Women can more easily actually make the choice for themselves. And like I said feminists aren't against women making the choice, they want women to actually be able to choose what they want in life.

 

[mecca]

The bottom line is family.

If you want to destroy a people, destroy their families. If you want to build a people, build their families.

What matters is not one gender or the other. What matters is the family. Only God is above the family.

What is good for the family is good and what builds families is good. What is bad for the family is bad and what is destructive for families is bad.

We hear about women... but what about children? What about the pain of the children who grow up in a broken family without their fathers? What about their suffering, their torment and the struggles they must face?

I am sorry but I am more concerned about the children than about the women.

Men and women both have their struggles. However... children are a gift from God, born pure and have very little control in their lives.

Feminism is like the "x" in algebra. It doesn't have a specific meaning. It can have a million different and opposite meanings. It is indeed an ill-defined term.

What matters is not words.

What matters at the end of the day is that we put God and family first. We have to put others before ourselves.

The value of feminism is based on how it contributes to family and morality. If feminism strengthens families and elevates people morally, then it is good. If it builds families, then it builds up people and it builds up communities. If it destroys families then it destroys communities.

Feminism as the US knows it has destroyed families. If there is a feminism in an alternate universe or in some foreign country where feminism has promoted the well-being of families and children... then I guess that feminism is cool. But whatever attacks families disgusts me. Anti-family feminism does nothing more than promote selfishness and destroy communities and cause the suffering of innocent children. Also, anything that promotes abortion is demonic.

Family comes first. Second only to God.

Feminism did not cause all the problems that lead to single parent households. And feminism does have a meaning, it means women's equal rights and autonomy. You don't think sexism has destroyed families or the lives of women? It certainly has... both sexism against men and sexism against women has greatly harmed the way families are seen and the way children are treated. If you care about helping children in single parent households you should be addressing things like poverty. Usually children from single parent households are at a disadvantage because their parent can't afford many things for them.

 

[rainerann]

If society is pressuring someone into a decision, then it's not a fully conscious choice. If there is a bunch of pressure for you to take your life in a certain direction then you will do it and it will be out of obligation. Society does have to change the way we see women in order to give women full autonomy and I think we have in some ways. Women can more easily actually make the choice for themselves. And Like I said feminists aren't against women making the choice, they want women to actually be able to choose what they want in life.

Right, women should be able to choose, but you have to recognize that society wasn't always guilty of taking that choice away. The choice was removed because work was different. The choice is essentially created by the invention of the washing machine and having homes with electricity so you can plug in the iron or an oven or a toaster that alleviate that traditional workload of a woman.

It wasn't society that was keeping women at home entirely, so that idea that we should that we need to change an ideology present in society that keeps women from working outside the home isn't entirely true.

Therefore, feminism and any opposition that feminism has received never recognize the way technology has created choice. Women just want to take advantage of the choice that has been created. In some respects, there is opposition to this, but the core opposition that is part of the feminist movement never existed. Women did not join the workforce throughout history because, before the introduction of machines, the workload in the home was substantially higher. That is just a historical reality that we have difficulty understanding in the modern age.

 

[Aero]

Technology is hurting the male role in society too. That's kind of what MGTOW is all about. If all these guys had a bigger role in their job or family than they wouldn't join. Money and power are interchangeable, but not always equal. Think about all the pressures of success placed on all of us. Is a woman supposed to be immune to that? I think this type of stuff is older than technology.

You don't need fancy tools to mine for gold. But having gold or being able to make gold is a symbol of success. It's what we are all wired to want. And the American dream is supposedly within everyone's reach. So who is trying to honestly tell women they can't have success? And more importantly, why would you think that's ok?

Like hey let's put all this awesome gold in front of people. Than make sure they can never get their hands on it. Technically that is another form of torture. So it all just reinforces the theme of how abuse and torture have become normalized in the developed world. We are at a point where we have to compete with Robots for jobs. Yet people are still worried about what gender identities exist. They are more worried about fighting each other.

 

[rainerann]

So who is trying to honestly tell women they can't have success?And more importantly, why would you think that's ok?

Like hey let's put all this awesome gold in front of people. Than make sure they can never get their hands on it. Technically that is another form of torture.

The thing is, besides my father, I have never felt like anyone was telling me I couldn't have success as a woman. I have spent years considering this because my teachers were incredibly intelligent, strong women.

On the other hand, my father used to say things about how anything a woman did, a man could do better including cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc. He would give examples of famous chefs who were male and designers and basically tell me that feminism was just a farce, and I do believe that many of the supporters of feminism throughout the years have had these views towards women while they project to see things differently. I think many leaders of the feminist movement are actually doing what a man is telling them to do.

There are a lot of decent guys out there who do not feel threatened by women. Maybe they didn't expect to see things change so that women could work outside the home, but they weren't opposed to this. So a large part of the movement called feminist are also trying to control women through a different mechanism because my father encouraged me to do well in school to "fit in," with the feminist view, but I would never be equal to what my brother did. I was just never supposed to tell anyone that this is what I was told to believe. It was supposed to be a secret. I was expected to go to college and all that even though he had some of the misogynist opinions that I have ever heard in my life. I think most people have never heard such sexist statements like he had said to me when I was a little girl.

So I think most people who support feminism are acting, but there was something different about my teachers. They didn't have some manipulative ideology that I was being taught. That wasn't the reason that they were educated. So I compared the two worlds that I was learning about as a young girl because all of this information applied to me.

I have concluded that there are people who think like my father, but even my father couldn't stop me from pursuing success. I haven't talked to him in years. He is an evil person, but there is nothing that he has ever told in his doubleminded itinerary that could stop me from choosing to not have anything to do with him. He had no choice in what school I went to and there were many people who didn't promote feminism who did nothing to discourage me in these choices I made independently. So I think a lot of this is an illusion and the sad part is that most people don't have a whole lot of actual experience with very sexist views that I was raised with support feminism. It seems kind of like battling with something like Big Foot because it isn't anything they have ever seen, yet they believe it is real.

Then, on top of this, I became part of the mom club about 14 years ago and I have spent many years thinking about what becoming a mother means to my identity as a woman. Before technology, it was not a choice to stay at home. It was something you had to do because people make it out to be like a cute scenario where mothers are nurturing children. Then, they say superficial things about how this is "work" like this is supposed to protect my feelings because no one is really thinking it is the same as building a house because even women today are made to feel like they are in competition with other women who work outside the home and really work. Somehow there still isn't any real respect for mothers.

But there is no way to really explain how much work it is and it has nothing to do with nurturing. Simple things like a food processor. You just have no idea until you spend a week as a mother and throughout that week you imagine what life would be like if every convenience I have was removed. To just think about how much more work it would be without all of these little things that you realize that this is the reason that more women didn't work outside the home at one point because with these things, without this there isn't really anything stopping a woman from pursuing success. What people say or do can never really stop a person who is determined and everyone faces opposition when they are pursuing success.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Technology is hurting the male role in society too. That's kind of what MGTOW is all about. If all these guys had a bigger role in their job or family than they wouldn't join. Money and power are interchangeable, but not always equal. Think about all the pressures of success placed on all of us. Is a woman supposed to be immune to that? I think this type of stuff is older than technology.

You don't need fancy tools to mine for gold. But having gold or being able to make gold is a symbol of success. It's what we are all wired to want. And the American dream is supposedly within everyone's reach. So who is trying to honestly tell women they can't have success? And more importantly, why would you think that's ok?

Like hey let's put all this awesome gold in front of people. Than make sure they can never get their hands on it. Technically that is another form of torture. So it all just reinforces the theme of how abuse and torture have become normalized in the developed world. We are at a point where we have to compete with Robots for jobs. Yet people are still worried about what gender identities exist. They are more worried about fighting each other.

"That's kind of what MGTOW is all about. If all these guys had a bigger role in their job or family than they wouldn't join."
If they want improved roles and responsibilities though, shouldn't their focus be directed inward in an attempt to make themselves the best version they can be? I think there is some truth to what you typed for a fraction of the members of MGTOW, however based on the behavior they exhibit, it seems like the vast majority are more concerned with blaming females for that fact that these guys haven't made themselves into the people they feel they should truly be. I think they hold themselves back more than any females do, I think they know this and I think they dont care. Most of their rhetoric is just a smokescreen of justifications for their desire to engage in wretched behavior.

 

[Violette]

ive worked upwards of 80 hours a werk from 9am sometimes til 2-3the next morning. Sometimes straight throihh to my next shift start at 9am because of some crisis. And this was on average 1-2 times a week. I NEVER got off at 5pm like i was supposed to, and i was at that job almost 6 years. It was also dangerous work, i got death threats constantly, violent dogs set lose on me and unlike police i was not allowed to have a weapon to protect myself of any sort, not even mace. When we callled the cops to assist they would give us the run around, make us wait hours, or flat out refuse because THEY didnt even want to go into these situations. 90% of my coworkers were female.

My current job doing behavior modification with mentally ill and autistic children sounds like it should be better but many of these kids are very violent and bigger/stronger than me. I have to take classes on blocking assaults and restraint techniques a couple times a year because im not allowed to fight back.. you ever try to restrain an adolescent in the midst of a psychiatri crisis and consumed with rage? One whos heavier then you and stronger then u to begin with? Again this is a profession that overwhelmingly employs females.

Theres a lot of assumptions being made about what women are and arent willong to do, a lot of justifications for paying women less that arent based in reality.

Thanks for doing what you do Jess. You remind me of my mom lol she also worked with children/teens with autism and other mental/behavioral problems. I have too but mostly with children 10 and under. Psychotic breaks and anger can produce uncanny strength, trainings can prepare for those situations but experiencing it can be very scary and stressful.

 

[Aero]

The thing is, besides my father, I have never felt like anyone was telling me I couldn't have success as a woman. I have spent years considering this because my teachers were incredibly intelligent, strong women.

On the other hand, my father used to say things about how anything a woman did, a man could do better including cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc. He would give examples of famous chefs who were male and designers and basically tell me that feminism was just a farce, and I do believe that many of the supporters of feminism throughout the years have had these views towards women while they project to see things differently. They are really the ones out to control women through the mechanism of feminism because my father encouraged me to do well in school to "fit in," but I would never be equal to what my brother did.

That's called gaslighting. And there probably are a lot of self proclaimed feminists deploying the tactic. It's really an extension of their own self doubt. You can't psychologically project anything that doesn't actually exist within yourself. I think we might of talked about this before. How credibility is used as a weapon. There is only so much doubt a person can tolerate.

So I think most people who support feminism are acting, but there was something different about my teachers. They didn't have some manipulative ideology that I was being taught. That wasn't the reason that they were educated. So I compared the two worlds that I was learning about as a young girl because all of this information applied to me.

I have concluded that there are people who think like my father, but even my father couldn't stop me from pursuing success. I haven't talked to him in years. He is an evil person, but there is nothing that he has ever told in his doubleminded itinerary that could stop me from choosing to not have anything to do with him. He had no choice in what school I went to and there were many people who didn't promote feminism who did nothing to discourage in these choices I made independently. So I think a lot of this is an illusion and the sad part is that most people don't have a whole lot of actual experience with very sexist views that I was raised with.

I'm not acting. But I prefer not to label myself. And nobody is manipulating me. I believe what I believe because of my personal experiences. So I was being serious about all that primitive stuff. You are smart enough to know about the fight or flight response. Well what happens when women, or anyone doesn't fight? My theory is that people can typically only run so fast, or so far.

If we are saying that everyone has to fight for success, or independence than that's fine. If we are saying lets dispel all the illusions, I'm totally with that too. But lets talk about the bigger illusions. Like that equality is some natural thing that just exists. Think of a math equation, equality is not a constant number. It depends how it applied, but that's the main point. Equality has to be applied or it wont have meaning. Or exist.

Just saying. That's what feminism is to me.

Then, on top of this, I became part of the mom club about 14 years ago and I have spent many years thinking about what becoming a mother means to my identity as a woman. Before technology, it was not a choice to stay at home. It was something you had to do because people make it out to be like a cute scenario where mothers are nurturing children. Then, they say superficial things about how this is "work" like this is supposed to protect my feelings because no one is really thinking it is the same as building a house.

But there is no way to really explain how much work it is and it has nothing to do with nurturing. Simple things like a food processor. You just have no idea until you spend a week as a mother and throughout that week you imagine what life would be like if every convenience I have was removed. To just think about how much more work it would be without all of these little things that you realize that this is the reason that more women didn't work outside the home at one point because with these things, there isn't really anything stopping a woman from pursuing success. What people say or do can never really stop a person who is determined and everyone faces opposition when they are pursuing success.

I shall refer to some of my previous statements. About people not having to actively promote discrimination, for it to exist. Self doubt and fight or flight. Doubt is a powerful thing. Like it can stop someone in their tracks. You know? Illusions like you said. If people are weak than we should try to lift them up. That's what Gnostic Jesus is telling me anyway. Throwing people to the wolves is not ok. We should be doing a lot better.

I kind of like the secular undertones of your post though. It has that survival of the fittest vibe going on. Are you sure you haven't been manipulated?

 

[rainerann]

That's called gaslighting. And there probably are a lot of self proclaimed feminists deploying the tactic. It's really an extension of their own self doubt. You can't psychologically project anything that doesn't actually exist within yourself. I think we might of talked about this before. How credibility is used as a weapon. There is only so much doubt a person can tolerate.

I'm not acting. But I prefer not to label myself. And nobody is manipulating me. I believe what I believe because of my personal experiences. So I was being serious about all that primitive stuff. You are smart enough to know about the fight or flight response. Well what happens when women, or anyone doesn't fight? My theory is that people can typically only run so fast, or so far.

If we are saying that everyone has to fight for success, or independence than that's fine. If we are saying lets dispel all the illusions, I'm totally with that too. But lets talk about the bigger illusions. Like that equality is some natural thing that just exists. Think of a math equation, equality is not a constant number. It depends how it applied, but that's the main point. Equality has to be applied or it wont have meaning. Or exist.

Just saying. That's what feminism is to me.

I shall refer to some of my previous statements. About people not having to actively promote discrimination, for it to exist. Self doubt and fight or flight. Doubt is a powerful thing. Like it can stop someone in their tracks. You know? Illusions like you said. If people are weak than we should try to lift them up. That's what Gnostic Jesus is telling me anyway. Throwing people to the wolves is not ok. We should be doing a lot better.

I kind of like the secular undertones of your post though. It has that survival of the fittest vibe going on. Are you sure you haven't been manipulated?

Right, so based on what you just said, a lot of what is considered a feminist argument is kind of like preaching to the choir. I have found this true in many cases. I don’t know if you are familiar with the modern phenomenon of the male nurse, but there is a growing male nurse population because for some portion of the population, a feminist argument is like preaching to the choir. These are the guys that I could say women deserve this or that and they would just keep nodding their heads in agreement and there are a lot of guys like this. Maybe working with a bunch of male nurses makes me biased a little bit in some ways though. I will admit to that possibility.

So I don’t know what you mean about whether I am being manipulated, but I don’t feel like being in control of whether I associate with men who think like my father demonstrates I am being manipulated. Views like he had for example, could always exist because people have the free will to choose to think like this. The difference is that whether or not people believe things like this or not, this does not affect the choices that I am able to make in this life. I don’t have to associate with them or try to control them. I think trying to do something like this would be like trying to make a alcoholic quit drinking. It is a waste of time.

I also think there is a lot of social pressure to hide views like this and there has been for many many years now because he did not tell many people he thought things like this because it would have made him look bad in the 80’s. Over twenty years later and I think that social pressure is even greater. So I agree society can do better, but we also have a lot to be grateful for at this point in time.

There are also many things that the modern feminists movement ignores about history that has contributed to their options. Many options have been created by men. A man invented a sewing machine and many other things that they would have never anticipated using because of traditional gender roles. Now, why would a man invent something that they would never expect to use to make their work easier. I think this goes back to the fact that for many men, a feminist argument is like preaching to the choir.

Some men just simply wanted to make the work that women commonly did easier for them. So for many people, they have something that keeps them from letting go and breathing in this world where men make sewing machines to make life easier for women.

If all men were guilty of oppressing women and thought that nothing a women did was actual work, they would never have endeavored to make so many things easier for them. Therefore, many men know and have great respect for the work women do and the individuals who don’t do not matter.

I also think that movements make it easier to pursue crowd control so would I be the one being manipulated or would the crowd be more likely to be manipulated evidenced by the almost cult like behavior of bringing in new recruits to causes like the modern feminist movement.

 

[justjess]

The men who DONT matter because they are in positiona of authority that continuosly hinder the efforts of women and the men who DO.

Also the sewing machine wasnt invented to help women, it was made so that clothes making companies could be more efficient and produce more clothes with less workers and increase profits. Some of the eaely machines were made by male tailors to make their own work easier.

The sewing machine later helping women in theie domesric tasks was an unplanned for benefit, not the purpose.

And its not like mens traditional roles havent been helped by technology as well. They dont have to go out and roam the wilderness to kill animals for meat anymore and that ended way before women ever got a sewing machine. Protection also was outsourced to police hundreds if not thousanda of yeaes before women ever had anything to make their lives easier.

 

[DeathlyHallows]

Geez, they sound like such nice guys...what a catch for any lucky lady.

 

[Glossolalien]

Aero you are nothing but a troll.

I slammed you for spouting nonsense on capitalism then you praised China and Russia. When I showed you how wrong you were you said that I was talking about a red herring, which is not even remotely relevant. You continually accuse me of things that I never said.

You continually state wrong things and when I showed you they were wrong, you not address it but instead make things up.

Example: You said, "China is just as advanced as the USA and therefore capitalism isn't necessary."

I correct you, "China steals intellectual property and simply copies other's tech."

You respond, "You just admitted China steals secrets."

-

You say, "Not enough women are CEOs"

I Say, "If women were better choices then they would be CEO's because the people who hire CEO's are sharks who care only about money"

You respond with a long and pointless diatribe about how I want everyone to be a shark and women aren't shark enough. No where close to anything that I wrote.

This is just a small piece of our interaction. Literally every response you made was addressing a point that I never made, that's a strawman. You continue to say things like men make more money than women and inflate the figures. I show why that is and you act like I didn't write anything. Men make more money but they don't have higher pay. They make more money for those 20 reasons I listed above. Men and women have equal wages and that is a fact, but you don't want that getting out, do you?


Then DrunkJess and Mecca who either don't read the posts or are too drunk to tell the difference cheer you on. You're literally paid to be toxic but no one seems to mind if "they're on my side."

You're a man, and your "Aero" account should be banned. You don't support feminism, you're only here to inject stupid ideas and to prevent intelligent conversation from taking place.

So what's the number rule for trolling? Always change the subject and then try to get an emotional response.

 

[DeathlyHallows]

Is it ironic that the people who have been on here for a while are the ones being called trolls? Just asking. And someone please let me stay home and not have to work outside the home!

 

[justjess]

Aero you are nothing but a troll.

I slammed you for spouting nonsense on capitalism then you praised China and Russia. When I showed you how wrong you were you said that I was talking about a red herring, which is not even remotely relevant. You continually accuse me of things that I never said.

You continually state wrong things and when I showed you they were wrong, you not address it but instead make things up.

Example: You said, "China is just as advanced as the USA and therefore capitalism isn't necessary."

I correct you, "China steals intellectual property and simply copies other's tech."

You respond, "You just admitted China steals secrets."

-

You say, "Not enough women are CEOs"

I Say, "If women were better choices then they would be CEO's because the people who hire CEO's are sharks who care only about money"

You respond with a long and pointless diatribe about how I want everyone to be a shark and women aren't shark enough. No where close to anything that I wrote.

This is just a small piece of our interaction. Literally every response you made was addressing a point that I never made, that's a strawman. You continue to say things like men make more money than women and inflate the figures. I show why that is and you act like I didn't write anything. Men make more money but they don't have higher pay. They make more money for those 20 reasons I listed above. Men and women have equal wages and that is a fact, but you don't want that getting out, do you?


Then DrunkJess and Mecca who either don't read the posts or are too drunk to tell the difference cheer you on. You're literally paid to be toxic but no one seems to mind if "they're on my side."

You're a man, and your "Aero" account should be banned. You don't support feminism, you're only here to inject stupid ideas and to prevent intelligent conversation from taking place.

So what's the number rule for trolling? Always change the subject and then try to get an emotional response.

Lol u made a long post claiming women are paid less basicallt because they arent willing to work hard, long hours blah blah. Your full of shit. Ypu adress no ones counter points just cry foul and insult. Pot calling kettle.

 

[Glossolalien]

Lol u made a long post claiming women are paid less basicallt because they arent willing to work hard, long hours blah blah. Your full of shit. Ypu adress no ones counter points just cry foul and insult. Pot calling kettle.

I made a post saying that women are paid the SAME, not less. Men make more due to many factors that you consider blah blah. Those are the facts. Exactly how am I full of shit? I can't understand the 2nd half of your post because you are either a really drunk person or like to copy how really drunk people type. Aero is trolling on behalf of an organization paying him, and that undermines your effort completely. I'm sure that would bother you if you were sober.

If you bother to respond please make it more than, "You're wrong because I say so and btw I'm drunk at 2PM."

 

[rainerann]

[QUOTE="Glossolalien, post: 93871]
You say, "Not enough women are CEOs"

I Say, "If women were better choices then they would be CEO's because the people who hire CEO's are sharks who care only about money"

You respond with a long and pointless diatribe about how I want everyone to be a shark and women aren't shark enough. No where close to anything that I wrote.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with some of what you are saying about progress being fueled by capitalism. I think there was even something around here mentioned about how there would be more small business if capitalism were good, which isn't true. I grew up in a small town where there was only small businesses that received tourists at certain times of the year, and the reason that there aren't more small businesses being created depends on how many regulations a small business is supposed to accommodate according to state laws that have been created in the last 20 years or so. Capitalism is a system that doesn't operate according to state regulation, so our mixed socialist-capitalism transition to a new world order does not represent what has created the economic growth we have had in this country for the past couple hundred years.

However, I highlighted something that I don't believe is true. Women don't get selected to be CEO's for different reasons than the one that you provided. In practice, they are not just competing for a position equally throughout history.

However, people have distorted the real reason why more women didn't try to become CEO's throughout the years to create division. What you are saying is suggesting that they were equally able to compete at one point and they weren't, but this was because of hardship that made life difficult rather an intrinsic belief held by men that women should only work in the home. I just don't believe men thought like this even if they didn't have the time to consider why things were the way they were because of their own hardship they experienced.

I don't think most men think that women didn't work the way we make it out to seem that men were keeping women from working outside the home before the women's movement either. Housework is hard, repetitive, and tedious work that has to be done constantly and literally is a 24-hour job throughout history. The fact that men don't want to do housework is a testament to whether housework could be considered real work throughout history. It just irritates me that this is still not being recognized in these discussions and we are defending women by showing what they are able to do besides this instead of what this says about the character of women throughout history because they did this.

Anyways, technology changed this and many men created things that made life easier for women like the vacuum cleaner, microwave oven, refrigerator that were all created by men. In addition to this, because of capitalism, women were able to invent things that freed time from household work like disposable diapers, the dishwasher, and if discrimination against women was intrinsic for men, these inventions would not have been put to use because they had been made by a woman.

There are many things that are said in discussions like this that are not true. Most men do not seek to oppress women and having a system like we have had in America demonstrates this better than any other system has been able to do throughout history. A government or economic system has more power to create systemic oppression towards women than the individual opinions of some men who may think inappropriately. This is demonstrated by how society changed when women were given the right to vote. This change to our system of government freed us from systemic oppression, and if government works in a libertarian way, there is not much that the government can do to facilitate systemic oppression besides this after this was changed.

This is evidenced by how our system has created opportunities for women as well as men to become CEO's ever since the women's movement gained the right to vote. Where I work, a woman has been the CEO for the past 50 years. The majority of my supervisors are women. So the opinions held by some men don't matter because they don't have the authority to prevent any woman from pursuing something she wants to do. We do not have to seek to make legal consequences for these opinions if they are not able to oppress women, which the modern women's movement seems to expect the government to do.

So I agree and disagree with what you are saying and would prefer if you could clarify it a little bit. It sounds like you are saying that women are not capable of being CEO's as frequently as men are capable of doing this, and this is demonstrated by the statistics showing women do not occupy as many CEO positions as men do.

 

[Aero]

So I don’t know what you mean about whether I am being manipulated, but I don’t feel like being in control of whether I associate with men who think like my father demonstrates I am being manipulated. Views like he had for example, could always exist because people have the free will to choose to think like this. The difference is that whether or not people believe things like this or not, this does not affect the choices that I am able to make in this life. I don’t have to associate with them or try to control them. I think trying to do something like this would be like trying to make a alcoholic quit drinking. It is a waste of time.

I was losing focus last night, so let me try to better clarify. I wasn't talking specifically talking about your relationship to your father, or anyone for that matter. My question about manipulation has to do with your survivalist attitude. And there is nothing wrong with that BTW. But it all fits in with the narrative I'm trying to drive home.

You wrote about differentiating between two different worlds. Which is why I brought up secularism. Maybe you don't realize you have displayed two different types of worldviews. Or philosophies. I think you and other Christians may be betraying your faith. Like you have swallowed some of the secular pills, and aren't going back. So my main question to you, or any other Christian. Is the bibles main theme about teaching us survival? Does it say only the strong survive?

 

[rainerann]

I was losing focus last night, so let me try to better clarify. I wasn't talking specifically talking about your relationship to your father, or anyone for that matter. My question about manipulation has to do with your survivalist attitude. And there is nothing wrong with that BTW. But it all fits in with the narrative I'm trying to drive home.

You wrote about differentiating between two different worlds. Which is why I brought up secularism. Maybe you don't realize you have displayed two different types of worldviews. Or philosophies. I think you and other Christians may be betraying your faith. Like you have swallowed some of the secular pills, and aren't going back. So my main question to you, or any other Christian. Is the bibles main theme about teaching us survival? Does it say only the strong survive?

Very interesting question to consider. Initially, when I was differentiating between the two worlds, this was from my perspective as a survivor of abuse. If differentiation isn't possible and there are not two worlds that exist. One that contains abuse and the justification for it and another that doesn't, there is essentially no way to break the cycle of abuse. I have found that distinguishing abuse is a way to prevent being a victim to the cycle of abuse.

There are many connections to the spiritual dimension that are created by recognizing a dichotomy of sorts between good and evil that is apparent in the world. Where you are making the connection to secularism, I would make a connection to secularism whereas secularism does not create conflict with my faith and acts as a sort of bridge if you will. Without getting too religious, what you are calling a secular perspective, I have generated from the teachings on the concept of freedom within the Gospel that are the primary reasons why founders who were present during the founding of this country did not have an objection to the implementation of precepts like freedom of religion.

In addition, the Bible teaches perseverance, which would seem to deviate from what you are saying about surviving to a degree as well. However, the Bible doesn't teach that the strong are the only ones who can persevere or that perseverance is a measurement of strength. A child can persevere. An old man can persevere because perseverance is a demonstration of spiritual strength rather than physical strength. Perseverance requires other spiritual qualities like patience as well, which are contrary to the concept of survival of the fittest in many ways that you are suggesting. With the survival of the fittest, strength can act at any time because it is acting in competition with other demonstration of strength.

Many times, in persevering, patience is required because what you are seeking cannot be found quickly or with a demonstration of force. Perseverance is also the work of trying to change something behind the scenes or at the root of the problem so that in persevering, you are able to remove something permanently and not just until the next person comes along that needs to prove their strength and ability to survive. So there are similarities, but the foundation is very different I think.

 

[Aero]

Aero you are nothing but a troll.

I slammed you for spouting nonsense on capitalism then you praised China and Russia. When I showed you how wrong you were you said that I was talking about a red herring, which is not even remotely relevant. You continually accuse me of things that I never said.

You continually state wrong things and when I showed you they were wrong, you not address it but instead make things up.

Example: You said, "China is just as advanced as the USA and therefore capitalism isn't necessary."

I correct you, "China steals intellectual property and simply copies other's tech."

You respond, "You just admitted China steals secrets."

-

You say, "Not enough women are CEOs"

I Say, "If women were better choices then they would be CEO's because the people who hire CEO's are sharks who care only about money"

You respond with a long and pointless diatribe about how I want everyone to be a shark and women aren't shark enough. No where close to anything that I wrote.

This is just a small piece of our interaction. Literally every response you made was addressing a point that I never made, that's a strawman. You continue to say things like men make more money than women and inflate the figures. I show why that is and you act like I didn't write anything. Men make more money but they don't have higher pay. They make more money for those 20 reasons I listed above. Men and women have equal wages and that is a fact, but you don't want that getting out, do you?


Then DrunkJess and Mecca who either don't read the posts or are too drunk to tell the difference cheer you on. You're literally paid to be toxic but no one seems to mind if "they're on my side."

You're a man, and your "Aero" account should be banned. You don't support feminism, you're only here to inject stupid ideas and to prevent intelligent conversation from taking place.

So what's the number rule for trolling? Always change the subject and then try to get an emotional response.

Yeah that's not even close to what actually happened. I brought up China to bust up your false cause fallacy. But I see no reason to rehash you getting demolished. You just come up with any excuse you can think of to try to justify a warped worldview. Your argument that if a company thinks they will make more with a woman CEO, than they will hire her is literally from a dump bin somewhere.

Countless companies fail with a man at the helm. Would hiring a woman CEO be better than a man who is tanking the company? According to your false cause logic, no company would fail. Because they are always going to hire the best people! It's just ridiculous at this point. If I spouted nonsense about capitalism than feel free to bring it up again. I know I'm not the best writer but pretty sure you are just being a butt head.

I asked you for your sources and you never replied. Your literally ignoring half the stuff I write. So stop complaining. Nobody on Earth would pay me to talk to you. It seems like you are just trying to get people to turn against me, and that strikes me as familiar. It's like there's an air of pointless familiarity around you. Nobody is going to turn on me, no matter what I say. That's just not how VC people behave.