16 Year OId bashed online by group of MGTOW. What is this movement?

manama

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Feminism is no longer what it is supposed to be or what it once was, and there are too many dumb snowflakes using it to feel special. Its too late to change it back so its better not to associate ourselves with it.
 






manama

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There is something massively wrong when original feminism was about vote rights, rights to property, education etc while the current one, especially the one in west is worried about "sexist" air conditioners and lack of fat barbie dolls
 






mecca

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Feminism is no longer what it is supposed to be or what it once was, and there are too many dumb snowflakes using it to feel special. Its too late to change it back so its better not to associate ourselves with it.
There is something massively wrong when original feminism was about vote rights, rights to property, education etc while the current one, especially the one in west is worried about "sexist" air conditioners and lack of fat barbie dolls
It's a small minority that acts strange. The rest are normal people, we should not let a loud minority ruin things. The definition of feminism has not changed and feminist's goals are still the same.
 






manama

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It's a small minority that acts strange. The rest are normal people, we should not let a loud minority ruin things. The definition of feminism has not changed and feminist's goals are still the same.
That small minority has the bigger influence as well as makes the most noise.
 






mecca

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That small minority has the bigger influence as well as makes the most noise.
Actual feminists focus on real issues and are doing work to make a more equal society where women aren't mistreated for being women. The small minority doesn't do anything important and It is a waste of time to focus on them.
 






Hubert

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There is something massively wrong when original feminism was about vote rights, rights to property, education etc while the current one, especially the one in west is worried about "sexist" air conditioners and lack of fat barbie dolls
Really? Most of the feminist I have meet, or heard from, have been worried about things like sexual harassment and equal pay.
 






elsbet

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Really? Most of the feminist I have meet, or heard from, have been worried about things like sexual harassment and equal pay.
True-- but @manama Is right too. Actual women / feminists are usually concerned about legitimate issues, but the *fat Barbie* variety get more airplay. It demeans women's efforts toward equality more than the original issues imo.
 






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The following video depicts a young girl rambling about how women will never like nice guys. However, scrolling down the comments pages proves to be filled with terrible messages faced towards the girl and women in general. One of the comments said
"women should be culled"
So what is MGTOW? (men going their own way)
I have tried to do research and found out they are a collective group of men who share the same views on life and women. They speak about alpha and beta males. Red pills and blue pills.
Seems to me like a strange group of men with bad intentions to women. The main MGTOW website does not allow women to join. The misogyny present in this movement is very evident. A group of men who believe women are of no value to society



Any thoughts?


Code:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hwQ1YW0YPLw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The problem is, young impressionable men see videos like this and actually believe it. They believe an attractive young woman is somehow representative of all women and that men who *are* nice, will be ignored or dismissed by all the *hot* girls.

The bigger problem is this adds to the divide that we're already seeing between the sexes. Feminism has pitted women against men, and impressionable young men are frustrated and retaliating by biting back.

The hostility you're reading isn't born out of hatred, but rather, from being hurt - from being put in a situation which they may deem, hopeless.

I think this is just another example of how modern society continues to sew the seeds of divisiveness between men and women, blacks and whites, etc. But strangely, rather than men and women learning to love each other once again and celebrate each others' natural, inherent uniqueness...we see a weird trend towards "solving" this separateness by creating homogeneity - i.e...oneness. By blurring genderlines, colorlines, etc...

I think it's all part of the movement towards mass globalization and sameness...one people, one language, one sex, and of course...one to rule over them all....
 






Glossolalien

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THANK YOU FOR THIS
Feminism is about many things but solving actual problems was only around at the very very beginning and even that is suspect.

The main goal was to break the back of the middle-class and to divide and conquer. Back when the economy consisted of men making money and women making homes, it was easy to have a single-earner household. Once it became commonplace for women to have careers as well, this backfired on women. Women are now expected for the most part to be homemakers and also financial earners and that is not easy for anyone man or woman to accomplish. It's not common for a middle-class family not to need two earners to live comfortably.

Movements of any kind of "justice" tend to swing like a pendulum and they are usually at one extreme or the other. It's never in the middle. So men will get mistreated by women, and women will get mistreated by men and then both will seek to adjust their environments by yanking the pendulum to other side and the cycle starts anew.

Feminism was mostly started by rich bored women who had a me too moment(no not that kind) and wanted to have exciting careers like their rich husbands and they weren't busy at home because they could afford to hire help. So they convinced lower and middle class ladies that they were victims and all of this nonsense started. Like forcing "equality" in an economic system. Would it make sense that white and Asian men were required to makeup a certain percentage of the NBA teams? No, whether it's culture or natural ability the chances are that a black person is better at basketball and thus they make up greater numbers. It's not racism. Trust me, most of the white owners would not select black, urban kids for their teams if a white player was a viable option. It's the same thing in the workplace. Men are better at a lot things for a lot of different reasons. Women are better at other things and this is where their true power lies. It all boils down to whether you believe we were created this way for a reason or if you believe it was chance evolution of biological or cultural systems. Notice how the feminism movement started after evolution took the world by storm. It laid the ideological foundation for feminism and many other radical ideas that we are still bearing the consequences of today. A good example is like asking why women weren't drafted to fight in all the ancient empires. I'm sure there are exceptions here and there where there were women soldiers but the general rule of thumb is that men are much better soldiers especially in the days of melee hand to hand combat. A female army would simply lose to similarly equipped male army.

As for the video, I don't know what to tell you if you can't figure it out. There is a pretty girl with a rant about a subject that brings a lot of guys who never got over their failings in high school back to that point in time. They are angry and vulgar and wrong, it doesn't really have anything to do with feminism, it's just a bunch of guys being pigs. Men have acted this way since forever when given the chance. Women like to gossip, and be divas. Has nothing to do with modern socioeconomic manipulations carried out by the satanic ruling class.
 






mecca

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Once it became commonplace for women to have careers as well, this backfired on women.
It's not women of feminism's fault that houses are unaffordable. Women have a right to be able to get an education and go into any career they want and they should be able to at any time regardless of how hard it is to live off of even a two earner household nowadays.
Women are now expected for the most part to be homemakers and also financial earners and that is not easy for anyone man or woman to accomplish.
This isn't the fault of feminism this is the fault of people who think a woman has to be the one to manage and do all the work in the household. This should actually be blamed on the lingering sexist and pre-feminist mentality. Feminists want both the man and the women to share the workload and raise their children and do the chores together.
Movements of any kind of "justice" tend to swing like a pendulum and they are usually at one extreme or the other. It's never in the middle. So men will get mistreated by women, and women will get mistreated by men and then both will seek to adjust their environments by yanking the pendulum to other side and the cycle starts anew.
Or perhaps the sexism and bigotry can be slowly resolved and people can refrain from mistreating each other for their gender. Most people are working on bettering themselves. Each generation raised in a better environment with better values will be more and more against sexism and know why it's wrong and should not keep going.
Would it make sense that white and Asian men were required to makeup a certain percentage of the NBA teams?
This is an inaccurate comparison.
Notice how the feminism movement started after evolution took the world by storm. It laid the ideological foundation for feminism
Lol evolution has nothing to do with it. Feminism is about women getting rights and being treated fairly. It's about bringing awareness to and minimizing sexism and sexism's effects on society.
it's just a bunch of guys being pigs. Men have acted this way since forever when given the chance
All men are not pigs and this behavior is not normal. Many men would not act this way, a properly raised and educated man would not even think to say these things because he would have some respect for himself and others.
Women like to gossip, and be divas.
No they don't, half the population can't be generalized into a stereotype.
 






Aero

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I love how people conveniently ignore the real catalyst of the gender war. Because the biggest divider of the family, is obviously capitalism. Capitalism gave us this system of the haves, and have not. Maybe you are all too wrapped up in these social distractions. But it's pretty clear when you break it all down.

Prior to feminism the people who had everything. Was the Men. They set the rules, they made the money. They had all of the rights. And people act like this was some kind of golden age of America. But what evidence is there of that? I don't think there any with real substance. You all just like hating on feminism because it's popular to do so on the internet.

So what I'm saying is, feminism is like some kind of glorified Union. The tyranny and oppression from capitalism forced women into turning to "collective bargaining". I get that I'm probably preaching to the choir. Most people either know nothing of economics, or are all in with the notion that unions are evil. Yes, let's blame each other for standing up for ourselves.

Some of you seem perfectly fine getting shit on by the elite. Like you gobble it up.
 






TempestOfTempo

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MGTOW are a bunch of spoiled snowflakes who have found a common voice to justify the fact that they refuse to do the personal work required to attract the females they find desirable. If they worked more on improving themselves instead of finding excuses to alienate females, their prospects of finding someone special to love and care for would increase dramatically.

As it stands, this "movement" provides the excuses they feel necessary to continue their unhealthy and unrealistic quest for porn stars who are also homemakers of the June Cleaver/Betty Crocker molds. Their fantasy lives have led them to relationship ruin and instead of recognizing that and pulling back from their stance, they become more vehement in their support of MGTOW and more vicious in their attacks on females.
 






Glossolalien

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It's not women of feminism's fault that houses are unaffordable. Women have a right to be able to get an education and go into any career they want and they should be able to at any time regardless of how hard it is to live off of even a two earner household nowadays.

This isn't the fault of feminism this is the fault of people who think a woman has to be the one to manage and do all the work in the household. This should actually be blamed on the lingering sexist and pre-feminist mentality. Feminists want both the man and the women to share the workload and raise their children and do the chores together.

Or perhaps the sexism and bigotry can be slowly resolved and people can refrain from mistreating each other for their gender. Most people are working on bettering themselves. Each generation raised in a better environment with better values will be more and more against sexism and know why it's wrong and should not keep going.

This is an inaccurate comparison.

Lol evolution has nothing to do with it. Feminism is about women getting rights and being treated fairly. It's about bringing awareness to and minimizing sexism and sexism's effects on society.

All men are not pigs and this behavior is not normal. Many men would not act this way, a properly raised and educated man would not even think to say these things because he would have some respect for himself and others.

No they don't, half the population can't be generalized into a stereotype.
Thanks for the reply, it perfectly matches what I've described. In economic systems, things like fairness and equality aren't relevant. Am I saying it's inherently racist or sexist? No, I am saying it's basically a big math problem and it is inherently indifferent. The system works itself out to have the most qualified people in the most appropriate spots and this allows those companies to succeed and to have more success than others who aren't as effective. If a woman is better suited to a particular job and can't get hired or promoted to the position that she's better at then it harms the company or organization that is discriminating. Someone will hire her or promote her and because she is so good at her job the place she works for will succeed and then do better than the company that failed to recognize her potential. This is how economic systems work. If the woman can't find a place to hire her then the onus is on her to start her own company or organization.

So how is the NBA example not applicable? It's a system where team owners seek players that will play better than other teams and give them victory. An employer seeks employees that will do the best work, thereby ensuring the highest profits and a competitive edge over rivals. You can't legislate "fairness" into this equation without inhibiting success and discriminating against the more qualified individuals. It ends up discriminating just like the previous system but not it also screws over everyone else.

Up until the 20th century, work was typically very hard. The workplace was way different than what it is today. It was mostly manual labor either through manufacturing or farming. Going out to work everyday was far different than sitting in a cubicle in the A/C and pushing a pen all day. Do you think that men and women are identical physically? Men were better at these jobs, naturally and the women were better suited at home raising the family. It worked out for both parties because women are naturally more nurturing. Feminists are triggered that society dared to take this shape of discrimination against women but it was actually quite organic in nature. It wasn't the diabolical plot of the patriarchy.

Why is it this way? God made it that way. Evolution is quite relevant because it removes the whole design element away from the family structure. Man and woman didn't invent or create the nuclear family, God did. The root of this movement is rebellion. It might seem to be rebelling against an evil patriarchy but it's actually rebellion against God. If God didn't design it, then everything is relative and it doesn't matter who raises the kids or who goes out and works. When you say things like feminists want both parents to share the workload of raising the kids and earning money, it sounds really great on paper if you don't think this system was God-given. What actually happens is that women must now work to support the home in addition to the man but they are also expected and naturally inclined to want to handle the household duties. This puts more stress on women than ever and they end up wanting to blame someone for the situation, which ends up being men.

"Or perhaps the sexism and bigotry can be slowly resolved and people can refrain from mistreating each other for their gender. Most people are working on bettering themselves. Each generation raised in a better environment with better values will be more and more against sexism and know why it's wrong and should not keep going."

You see this is just wishful thinking again. Things just don't work like this in the real-world. I am not saying that I don't want them to, I am just realistic. People get offended and go overboard and end up discriminating against people that were never responsible for their original issue and then those people react creating a cycle that looks much like a pendulum. That's just how things work. Again, if you don't believe God created us and that man sinned and now has a sinful nature then this seems like a completely feasible goal(even though historical analysis should show you it isn't.) The bedrock of society is it's adherence and recognition to the fact they were created by a God. When you take that away then it becomes the rule of the jungle.

All of these things can be chalked up to not wanting to admit there's a God who holds us responsible and doesn't just want us to follow His plan because He says so but because it's actually the best system for us. We are happier that way. The modern agenda is that everything is relative and everything is the same. You can be any sex or gender that you feel you identify with and you can be attracted to any sex or gender you want to. No man and especially not an imaginary God should be able to tell you that you can't do something. Do you agree that children should be taken away from their parents because the parents won't let the still-minor child take hormone blockers to change their sex? If I were a feminist then I would be angry about woman of the year going to a man(Jenner) instead of a woman.

In the end this isn't a fight against man, or sexism or bigotry(not that these two don't exist) but rather against the facts. A good example here is that you won't allow a stereotype that women like to gossip. Stereotyping is basically against the law, despite the fact that it's a natural survival mechanism and one that you can't simply wish away. Certain people can be expected to act a certain way, it doesn't mean you know that person or have defined them. This is why they collect big data. It's possible to implement successful marketing strategies by studying how certain groups of people act and then catering towards that behavior. In fact that is how marketing actually works. This new attitude of "you can't define me, you don't know me" is everywhere and it has become a grave sin to anticipate a behavior that a certain group is predisposed to. If you were to be walking near a rattlesnake and hear the rattle and see that it's close then you wouldn't go touching it would you? Well, certain people have negative characteristics that should be avoided from time to time and it's not a crime to act on that instinct. But in our world using your God-given instincts and assigning characteristics to certain groups by analyzing trends has become conflated with prejudice and discrimination. Feminism just fits into the larger umbrella of this bigger war on the facts. I haven't even touched on how it's being used to justify murder on our most defenseless population(infants.)

I am all for women having the same rights like voting, driving, property-ownership and etc. I am all for them having equal opportunity in education and in the workplace. Opportunity is not the same as success though. There are many jobs that I would love to do but I fully understand that it's not possible for me to a viable candidate based on unchangeable characteristics that I was born with. I am not on board with discrimination against men or assault on the nuclear family. I am not on board with killing babies. I am sure you'll break my post down and take the time to tell me that I'm wrong and that you don't agree. It sort of sums of the argument though, it's more about feelings and emotions and desires rather than thinking about actual facts and the greater good for all men. As I said before this has been implemented by satanists in high places, and I have no delusions that it will change without divine assistance.
 






mecca

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God who holds us responsible and doesn't just want us to follow His plan because He says so but because it's actually the best system for us. We are happier that way.
Who is "we"? Women not having rights is not a God ordained system... it's a human corruption. Women not being allowed to have autonomy is not God ordained. If half the population is held down by an oppressive system then it is not the best system and we are not happier or more functional in it. We all have an obligation to make this world a better place for everyone to live in, not just men. If a husband and wife are a true team and they work together to do chores and raise their children, they are usually a happier couple because they both take responsibility.
You see this is just wishful thinking again. Things just don't work like this in the real-world.
No, it's really not. Young people are actually learning/progressing and we are knowledgeable on the harmful effects of bigotry and sexism. Logically if there are more people raised to see sexism as wrong, then more people won't be sexist. In the real world, each generation learns from the past ones... that's what actually happens and has happened throughout history. That's the reason why society is able to progress and we have made so many improvements in the way women are treated in our society.
A good example here is that you won't allow a stereotype that women like to gossip. Stereotyping is basically against the law
I said that the stereotype can't be applied to half the population because everyone is different and that's a fact. There's no law about it lol, you're greatly overreacting. For example, I (as a female) have no interest in gossiping and I do not think it is a healthy behavior, same for my friends, they do not gossip either. The true fact is that any person can decide to "gossip" or enjoy "gossiping", it's not a gender thing in the first place.
It sort of sums of the argument though, it's more about feelings and emotions and desires rather than thinking about actual facts and the greater good for all men.
The greater good for all human beings would be allowing all people their right to autonomy and freedom, including women.
 






Glossolalien

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Who is "we"? Women not having rights is not a God ordained system... it's a human corruption. Women not being allowed to have autonomy is not God ordained. If half the population is held down by an oppressive system then it is not the best system and we are not happier or more functional in it. We all have an obligation to make this world a better place for everyone to live in, not just men. If a husband and wife are a true team and they work together to do chores and raise their children, they are usually a happier couple because they both take responsibility.

No, it's really not. Young people are actually learning/progressing and we are knowledgeable on the harmful effects of bigotry and sexism. Logically if there are more people raised to see sexism as wrong, then more people won't be sexist. In the real world, each generation learns from the past ones... that's what actually happens and has happened throughout history. That's the reason why society is able to progress and we have made so many improvements in the way women are treated in our society.

I said that the stereotype can't be applied to half the population because everyone is different and that's a fact. There's no law about it lol, you're greatly overreacting. For example, I (as a female) have no interest in gossiping and I do not think it is a healthy behavior, same for my friends, they do not gossip either. The true fact is that any person can decide to "gossip" or enjoy "gossiping", it's not a gender thing in the first place.

The greater good for all human beings would be allowing all people their right to autonomy and freedom, including women.
Exactly where did I advocate that women don't have rights? What I'm addressing is the notion that being a homemaker for a woman is being a victim. Exactly what can't you as a woman do that I as a man can? Are you saying that men not doing enough chores at home equals oppression? I guess I'm saying I have no idea what you want, do you? I don't see any real specific complaints here, unless it's about the video at the beginning which I also think is wrong.

Look at history and tell me again that humans actually learn from their mistakes. Society hasn't really progressed, we just put on a much more high-tech facade. Women are allowed in the workplace because they are viable candidates for a lot of modern jobs and that wasn't always the case. Can you picture a woman in a steel foundry, a coal mine, a logger? No, I'm sure all those professions had women work them in isolated situations but as rare exceptions.

What does the Koran say? I'm not an expert but I thought that polygamy was defended because it was only suppose to be done when the man could adequately take care of all the women? Is that correct or do I have that wrong? If it is correct, I would imagine that Islam generally agrees with the notion that a woman at home raising a family while the man goes out and works is the traditional family setup.
 






TempestOfTempo

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Exactly where did I advocate that women don't have rights? What I'm addressing is the notion that being a homemaker for a woman is being a victim. Exactly what can't you as a woman do that I as a man can? Are you saying that men not doing enough chores at home equals oppression? I guess I'm saying I have no idea what you want, do you? I don't see any real specific complaints here, unless it's about the video at the beginning which I also think is wrong.

Look at history and tell me again that humans actually learn from their mistakes. Society hasn't really progressed, we just put on a much more high-tech facade. Women are allowed in the workplace because they are viable candidates for a lot of modern jobs and that wasn't always the case. Can you picture a woman in a steel foundry, a coal mine, a logger? No, I'm sure all those professions had women work them in isolated situations but as rare exceptions.

What does the Koran say? I'm not an expert but I thought that polygamy was defended because it was only suppose to be done when the man could adequately take care of all the women? Is that correct or do I have that wrong? If it is correct, I would imagine that Islam generally agrees with the notion that a woman at home raising a family while the man goes out and works is the traditional family setup.
"What does the Koran say?"
Im not a scriptural expert, but in addition to what you just cited, I received the following explanation regarding multiple wives.....
Basically life was way rough back then and for a single, widowed woman, with no one to protect her or her children, it was dire. With many of the original Muslims of that era dying in battle as they were defending themselves from serious and concerted attack, the need arose for these widows & their children to belong to family units in order to keep them safe from attack from non-Muslims at the time (heavy persecution in those days) and for general family well being. So it was never supposed to be a way for men to indulge in infidelity. It was for the protection of those in need and also only if the man had enough resources (as you stated) to treat them equally, and those resources included time, attention and love as well. And if the first wives said no, the man was supposed to drop the notion.

That is my understanding on the multiple wives in Islam rulings.
 






mecca

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What I'm addressing is the notion that being a homemaker for a woman is being a victim. Are you saying that men not doing enough chores at home equals oppression?
The dynamic in the past was that a woman was practically a servant and a baby maker to men and that's it, that's how women were seen and they had no other choices. Women were expected to raise all their kids single handedly, manage all of the chores, cook all the food, and provide everything for their husbands. They had no independence, they could not have careers... Women weren't seen as full humans with their own personal thoughts, goals, and dreams for their life... they were only expected to be supportive of their husbands and everything they did. That isn't healthy and it is a sexist way to see women. People have a right to their autonomy and sovereignty and women shouldn't be denied it. Everyone should be able to be independent and be able to follow their dreams and goals in life without other people telling them that they aren't allowed to. A woman should have the choice to be a stay at home mom or to be able to do anything else she wants in life. There's nothing wrong with a woman deciding for herself that she wants to stay at home if that's her own personal choice, but that doesn't come without the expectation that her husband helps out. Both parents have a responsibility to raise their child because they both created it. A healthy household dynamic is based on respect and the fair division of labor, one person shouldn't be dominating and there shouldn't be one person doing all the work, decisions should be made together.
I guess I'm saying I have no idea what you want, do you?
The goal is the minimization of sexism in society and the greater recognition of women's autonomy and freedom as individual human beings. That's what I want for everyone.
Society hasn't really progressed, we just put on a much more high-tech facade.
That's not true, people do learn. A lot of people are brought up knowing the harmful effects of racism and sexism and a lot of the other problems we have and more people are against it. People are always trying to make the world better so everyone can have the opportunity to enjoy their lives. Sexism still exists and it will probably never be completely gotten rid of but we are definitely in a better place now than we were in the past. It wasn't very long ago when women were not allowed to own property.
 






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Aero

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Isolation and seclusion is a form of torture. So technically someone without any opportunities is a victim. And the idea that women could never do manual labor is straight out of 1950s propaganda. That family values crap so many people cling to. It's just so ridiculous to see on a message board like this. That shit was never real, it's just a lie our parents never figured out. All their garbage got passed down to us, and I'm sorry if that bursts some bubbles.

Humanity was birthed from a fucking cave. I mean it's like some of you forget there was once a world without cars, and public transportation. What do you think the women were doing? If you said they were doing actual work. You get an A. So clearly there was a long time where women had to work. And I'm just wondering what really changed. I get that technology makes people lazier, but there is something else going on here.

I'm suspecting it's that pseudo Christian patriotic crap so many of you eat up. Like yes the world used to be perfect! Maybe the reality is that nobody ever talked about these problems with such frequency. Maybe they never talked about it with a good dose of passion. Maybe it was all a lie to begin with. Family values was the last thing on anyone's actual mind.
 






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