10 Reasons Why Jesus Is Not God!

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#41
I'm watching the video, but I had to pause it so I can refute the points individually....

10. "Jesus is not God because God is everlasting"..........I agree that God is indeed everlasting. He has ALWAYS existed, and always will. So Has Jesus, Who was, is & always will be the very WORD of God:

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

So that means that Jesus (THE WORD of God), was in the beginning, so let’s go back to Genesis:

Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

*Straight away, in verse 2, we see God, and the Spirit of God introduced.
**So right here, from the very beginning, we see that God literally SPOKE everything into existence. Notice how the Bible states over & over & over again—-God SAID, God CALLED, God “said”? This is emphasizing, repeatedly, that God’s literal, spoken WORDs have power....the power to Create, the power to give life.

Additionally, in Verse 26, God says “Let US...”. Who is “us”? That is plural. So far, we know that God has a (Holy) Spirit. But is that all of who He is talking to?......

..........AND.........

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

We know this passage is speaking of Jesus, because John is introducing Jesus at the beginning of Christ’s ministry.

(Also, John 3:16 says Jesus is the “ONLY BEGOTTEN” Son of God.)

Since the Bible calls Jesus the “Word of God”, and says the “Word of God was MADE FLESH and dwelt among us”, we know that Jesus is the Very WORD of God “MADE FLESH” (manifest in human/bodily form.)

Additionally, a prophecy from the OT telling of the future coming of Jesus reads:

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”.....Isaiah 9:6

This is clearly speaking of Jesus FUTURE BIRTH; coming IN THE FLESH. He was ALWAYS the WORD of God, just not made FLESH YET ——until He was born bodily, in human form, yet it STILL calls Him “EVERLASTING “ before He was born bodily in this earth.

That is because Jesus, who IS THE VERY WORD of God, IS EVERLASTING——From Genesis through Revelation, even before & after.

God Bless.
I, of course, do not agree with you. However, I mean no disrespect whatsoever to you. I respect you, as I respect all the real Christians.

So I respectfully disagree but certainly you are welcome to post your counter-arguments and explain your side as a Christian.

God Bless.
 




yiksmes

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#42
Yup
And the suggestion of "BrotherGod" because everyone is a god.. -.-
Not everyone, i meant his disciples. I quoted the verse, expressed my view and asked a question. - I was raised by Russian orthodox belief (my mother and grandmother) and as i understood the belief is that Jesus was the son of god and it's not clear because some believe Jesus said he the son of god and continued that we are sons of god too. Unfortunately the only talks i had with my jewish side about god was me asking "Why?" when they said that they don't believe in god. (Not saying jews don't believe in god, just turned out to be like that.) Now that i think about it, it all actually started from me questioning them about the circumcision because Russian Orthodox are not circumcised. - Sorry if TMI..

From reading and watching debates online on this subject, to me Jesus being creator's messenger makes the biggest sense.
I am still open to change my mind, when watching/listening/reading many different people who know the bible having a debate on this subject, i don't reject their view usually as soon as the debater who is debating anti Jesus god/trinity rejects them. I try to put myself in their shoes and ponder first. - But with all the evidence i am still not convinced.
Which brings me back to your quote:
It is nicer here when we don't insult each other's intelligence.
If i am insulting anybody's intelligence, it is only my own. I am sorry but i dont feel guilty to be unintelligent especially if somebody corrects me and i learn something from them.
If i had the intention to insult someone's intelligence, it would be straight up and direct.
I'm no angel myself but watching how most people insult each other and their intelligence here on this forum is actually very inspirational,
It's an every time or day example why we shouldn't scoop to that low level and get beaten by experience. There's not fruit in that.

It's never about who's right or wrong, it's about being on a right path and that is my journey.
Every time i was in trouble and asked god for help, i always had my prayers answered when i was a kid. This is no joke, if Jesus is a messenger and i believe he is god then for me that is a big offense to god from me. And if he is god and i believe that he is a messenger then it's the same offense from me again. And i feel the same way about rejecting fully Koran, Torah and what Jesus taught. It's not about yous, its about not offending god. What if these books really are word of god, not believing is one thing but rejecting and insulting the whole religion that have strong possibilities to be a message from god. - I don't want to betray god.

Different books, contradictions? Corruption and allowance for it to happen? Sounds like a wise life test. Probably dumb to say but sounds like a psychoanalysis check of your faith and character from god.
- It would be too easy and pointless life if we all just had this truth on silver platter, we probably wouldn't even know what a question is..
The only creation that we know of that is more deceitful than a human being is a creation that lives, is spiritual and has the ability to manipulate us to do evil and deceitful deeds and actually teaches some of us to have a ph.d in lies.

If i say you Christians are all delusional or if i say that all you Muslims are terrorists and if i am convinced that the creator didn't write your book.
That doesn't mean that i was holding the candle while the creator was writing my book. None of us was there.
If you love god than you would be ashamed to say things like that because what if that book is also a word of your god to another time and place or whatever.. - What if?
 




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#44
@yiksmes

You have the Son of God, the sons of the living God, sons of God, and children of God. Read out of context the way I have presented them they are undeniably confusing. They aren't all the same things as one refers to Jesus, angels, and people in different periods of time and context. For Jesus to be the Son of God equates something entirely different from us receiving salvation and being born again in the spirit of God thus sons/children of God but not angels or fallen angels as referenced in Genesis 6.

So no, us being sons of God doesn't equate us to being divine as the word of God is but rather a part of being saved through Christ. As to the circumcision, it isn't necessary because when we outwardly proclaim faith in Christ our souls are sealed from our flesh for eternity through a spiritual circumcision.

Colossians 2:8-15 KJV
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
 




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#45
Not everyone, i meant his disciples. I quoted the verse, expressed my view and asked a question. - I was raised by Russian orthodox belief (my mother and grandmother) and as i understood the belief is that Jesus was the son of god and it's not clear because some believe Jesus said he the son of god and continued that we are sons of god too. Unfortunately the only talks i had with my jewish side about god was me asking "Why?" when they said that they don't believe in god. (Not saying jews don't believe in god, just turned out to be like that.) Now that i think about it, it all actually started from me questioning them about the circumcision because Russian Orthodox are not circumcised. - Sorry if TMI..

From reading and watching debates online on this subject, to me Jesus being creator's messenger makes the biggest sense.
I am still open to change my mind, when watching/listening/reading many different people who know the bible having a debate on this subject, i don't reject their view usually as soon as the debater who is debating anti Jesus god/trinity rejects them. I try to put myself in their shoes and ponder first. - But with all the evidence i am still not convinced.
Which brings me back to your quote:

If i am insulting anybody's intelligence, it is only my own. I am sorry but i dont feel guilty to be unintelligent especially if somebody corrects me and i learn something from them.
If i had the intention to insult someone's intelligence, it would be straight up and direct.
I'm no angel myself but watching how most people insult each other and their intelligence here on this forum is actually very inspirational,
It's an every time or day example why we shouldn't scoop to that low level and get beaten by experience. There's not fruit in that.

It's never about who's right or wrong, it's about being on a right path and that is my journey.
Every time i was in trouble and asked god for help, i always had my prayers answered when i was a kid. This is no joke, if Jesus is a messenger and i believe he is god then for me that is a big offense to god from me. And if he is god and i believe that he is a messenger then it's the same offense from me again. And i feel the same way about rejecting fully Koran, Torah and what Jesus taught. It's not about yous, its about not offending god. What if these books really are word of god, not believing is one thing but rejecting and insulting the whole religion that have strong possibilities to be a message from god. - I don't want to betray god.

Different books, contradictions? Corruption and allowance for it to happen? Sounds like a wise life test. Probably dumb to say but sounds like a psychoanalysis check of your faith and character from god.
- It would be too easy and pointless life if we all just had this truth on silver platter, we probably wouldn't even know what a question is..
The only creation that we know of that is more deceitful than a human being is a creation that lives, is spiritual and has the ability to manipulate us to do evil and deceitful deeds and actually teaches some of us to have a ph.d in lies.

If i say you Christians are all delusional or if i say that all you Muslims are terrorists and if i am convinced that the creator didn't write your book.
That doesn't mean that i was holding the candle while the creator was writing my book. None of us was there.
If you love god than you would be ashamed to say things like that because what if that book is also a word of your god to another time and place or whatever.. - What if?
I see. Thank you clarifying.

There is a lot of questioning here along the same line as yours-- most of it is just a set up for contradictions, mockery and the like.. it gets ridiculous after a while.

How much of the bible have you read, yourself? I would start there, by all means. Watching and reading debates about it is fine, but reading yourself is the only way to learn because the more you read, the more revealed to you.

God knows the heart-- ask Him, yourself.

Search me, God, and know my heart. Try me, and know my thoughts.
See if there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the everlasting way.


1LORD, you have searched me, and you know me.
2You know my sitting down and my rising up. You perceive my thoughts from afar.

3You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways.

4For there is not a word on my tongue, but, look, LORD, you know it altogether.

5You encircle me behind and in front, and you place your hand upon me.

6This knowledge is beyond me. It's lofty. I can't attain it.

7Where could I go from your Spirit? Or where could I flee from your presence?

8If I ascend up into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, look, you are there.

9If I take the wings of the dawn, and settle in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10Even there your hand will lead me, and your right hand will hold me.

11If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me; the light around me will be night;"

12even the darkness doesn't hide from you, but the night shines as the day. The darkness is like light to you.

13For you formed my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother's womb.

14I will give thanks to you, for I am awesomely and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. My soul knows that very well.

15My frame wasn't hidden from you, when I was made in secret, woven together in the depths of the earth.

16Your eyes saw my body. In your book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there were none of them.

17How precious to me are your thoughts, God. How vast is the sum of them.

18If I would count them, they are more in number than the sand. When I wake up, I am still with you.

19If only you, God, would kill the wicked. Get away from me, you bloodthirsty men.

20For they speak against you wickedly. Your enemies take your name in vain.

21LORD, do I not hate those who hate you? Am I not grieved with those who rise up against you?

22I hate them with perfect hatred. They have become my enemies.

23Search me, God, and know my heart. Try me, and know my thoughts.

24See if there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the everlasting way.

PSALM 139
 




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#47
How is that talking about Jesus when he said not to call him father and that he didnt come to bring peace? The prophecy says the "child" would be called Father and Prince of peace....
It is rendered father of eternity in the literal, which makes more sense imo-- but check out this page--
ISAIAH 9:6

-- it breaks down the original writing-- the word father is absent. It reads only the Everlasting.*


5703 [e]
’ă·ḇî·‘aḏ
אֲבִיעַ֖ד
The everlasting

* I. עַד and וָעֶ֑ד (so always) noun masculine perpetuity...

Maybe this is where Father came from, idk.. but there is quite a lot written about the use of the word in this passage-- you are not the first to inquire apparently. :)
 




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#49
So is this guy wrong about everything?
I didn't watch the video but there's no biblical basis to establish the Trinity but rather misguided inference that Jesus nor his apostles nor their churches preached. Jesus is the word of God, the Holy spirit the spirit of God, and God being God. Read the bible so that you can gain context to understand what the word of God says verses what man teaches.
 




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#50
8. Narrator claims no man has seen God. Uses John 5:37 as “proof” to support claim.

Narrator is taking verse out of context, it is important that people not isolate verses if they aren’t familiar with the Bible, because anything can be twisted to reflect the reader’s presupposition.

Let’s look at the context of John 5:37:

John 5:
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

In that passage, Jesus is talking to the Jews in the synagogue who want to stone Him because He said He was sent forth of His Father(God the Father), making Himself equal to God.

Jesus tells the unbelieving Jews that THEY (the Jews He is talking to) have not seen the Father’s shape nor heard His voice BECAUSE Jesus was standing right in front of them & they STILL didn’t believe on Him.

Jesus isn’t denying He is sent from the Father, He’s confirming it, but the Jews He was speaking to didn’t believe Him, which is why Jesus said that.

Jesus confirms this throughout the Bible, that those who believe Him, believe God the Father:

“Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.”.....John 8:19 KJB

John 6:
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 14:
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
 




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#51
So it's alright to address god as "brother" when you pray?

Because in John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Or are those "brothers" gods too?:)
No. We pray to God the Father, in Jesus Name.

Also, it is important to read the King James Holy Bible, not some new counterfeit.

There IS a difference. The KJ HOLY Bible is Holy. It is the Word of God in English.

Since Jesus Christ is literally the Word of God made flesh, that means If you have an imposter Bible (uninspired), you have a different & imposter “Jesus”.

John 20:
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

This was just after Jesus Christ’s resurrection. He is showing Himself alive bodily, and proving it is Him by showing them His hands that still have holes from the nails that were driven through them & His side, which has the the wound from where the soldier stabbed Him with the arrow while He was hanging on the Cross right after He died.
 




yiksmes

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#52
I didn't watch the video but there's no biblical basis to establish the Trinity but rather misguided inference that Jesus nor his apostles nor their churches preached. Jesus is the word of God, the Holy spirit the spirit of God, and God being God. Read the bible so that you can gain context to understand what the word of God says verses what man teaches.
I didn't ask about the title of the video or about trinity. I'm interested where he is wrong (if) and why.
I don't want you to waste your time if you don't wan to, so I'll wait till someone who actually will watch it hopefully.

Thank you for trying to be helpful though =) For a son of devil you alright:D
 




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#53
I didn't ask about the title of the video or about trinity. I'm interested where he is wrong (if) and why.
I don't want you to waste your time if you don't wan to, so I'll wait till someone who actually will watch it hopefully.

Thank you for trying to be helpful though =) For a son of devil you alright:D
Well I gathered from the video and the comments that's what he was talking about.
 




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#54
It is rendered father of eternity in the literal, which makes more sense imo-- but check out this page--
ISAIAH 9:6

-- it breaks down the original writing-- the word father is absent. It reads only the Everlasting.*


5703 [e]
’ă·ḇî·‘aḏ
אֲבִיעַ֖ד
The everlasting

* I. עַד and וָעֶ֑ד (so always) noun masculine perpetuity...

Maybe this is where Father came from, idk.. but there is quite a lot written about the use of the word in this passage-- you are not the first to inquire apparently. :)
Nice, I didnt know that father wasnt in the originals. If this is the case, and Jesus didnt come to bring peace but division, how are we sure that the verse is speaking of him?
 




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#55
Im not following the logic. If when Jesus was supposedly on earth he said to call NO ONE on earth father except the one in heaven, then how would him saying him and the father are one also mean that he (Jesus) was the one being called everlasting father?

Now if what elsbet brought is correct, I think that closes my question on the father part since it wasnt originally there....
 




friend

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#56
So is this guy wrong about everything?

Wow, the Council of Nicaea was presided by the Roman Emperor Constantine (or Saint Constantine) who worshiped the sun, a sun which had a SON representing the sun on earth and Constantine, just five ears before Council of Nicaea, had fought a war against those who said planet Jupiter was actually the God not the Sun and the guy who was the sun of Jupiter was killed by Constantine. Emperor Constantine had boiled his wife and son to death fearing they may take his position, so the supporters (a sect) of the son-hood of Jesus told him if he (Constantine) believed that Jesus is son of God and he died for the sins only then Constantine's sins would be forgiven.
The result was that the Roman Empire would accept this particular sect (which believed Jesus to be son of God and died for the sins) as the official church of the Roman Empire while before that the Romans were killing and persecuting the followers of Jesus (Christians).

Just Wow!
 




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#57
No. We pray to God the Father, in Jesus Name.

The Godhead was and is and will always be Threefold.

And that Threefold composition of God is a source of contention for the human mind. And it is hard to understand how Threefold God can be One but the best example is that human beings are themselves walking talking threefold compositions with body soul and spirit.

Also we observe from the Scriptures that the Father points to the Son but the Son points to the Father...

Anyway i pray to Jesus Christ and rest assured there is no offence in that.



Also, it is important to read the King James Holy Bible, not some new counterfeit.

There IS a difference. The KJ HOLY Bible is Holy. It is the Word of God in English.

Since Jesus Christ is literally the Word of God made flesh, that means If you have an imposter Bible (uninspired), you have a different & imposter “Jesus”.

Jesus Christ is Holy and the KJV is not. It is perhaps the best translation in English but that's it.
 




yiksmes

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#58
Wow, the Council of Nicaea was presided by the Roman Emperor Constantine (or Saint Constantine) who worshiped the sun, a sun which had a SON representing the sun on earth and Constantine, just five ears before Council of Nicaea, had fought a war against those who said planet Jupiter was actually the God not the Sun and the guy who was the sun of Jupiter was killed by Constantine. Emperor Constantine had boiled his wife and son to death fearing they may take his position, so the supporters (a sect) of the son-hood of Jesus told him if he (Constantine) believed that Jesus is son of God and he died for the sins only then Constantine's sins would be forgiven.
The result was that the Roman Empire would accept this particular sect (which believed Jesus to be son of God and died for the sins) as the official church of the Roman Empire while before that the Romans were killing and persecuting the followers of Jesus (Christians).

Just Wow!
And hearing all that reminded me of our Russian Orthodox history.
From: http://muhlenberg.edu/depts/forlang..._iskold/courses/rus_cult/Toolweb/papers_4.htm
If interested in reading this - it will be more easy from the link, i copy and pasted into the spoiler but it's troubling with messed up spaces between letters.

Pagan Influences on Orthodox Christianity
Abstract
When beginning this paper, I did my primary research on the history of Orthodox Christianity. I needed to learn more about this topic before I could decide what direction I wanted to take with it in my paper. With further investigation, I realized that there were a number of different influences on Russian Orthodoxy. In my research, the word paganism kept materializing. I heard of the word before, but did not really know how it related to Christianity. By reviewing more books, I was able to learn more about this topic. I soon discovered that there was a definite connection between the two areas: Orthodox Christianity and Paganism.
The books that I used were very insightful in the writing of my paper. They talkedabout the origins of Christianity, its evolution and its impact on history. Byisolating the word "pagan", I was easily able to find the sections of each bookthat would be the most helpful to me. Through all of my research, I learned agreat number of things about the pagan influence on Christianity. For example,many things we see in our churches today can be traced back to the pagans. Certainsymbols, such as circles and stars, can be found on icons and in our churches.Even some religious songs have paganistic influences in them. With all of thisnew found information, I thought it would make an interesting paper topic. Iwas also able to read about many other exciting facts about Christianity andthe pagan faith.

Before the introduction of Christianity in the tenth century, paganism dominatedthe Russian culture. A pagan was a person who believed that God was identifiablewith the forces of nature and with natural substances. Their worship admittedor tolerated all gods. As pagans, the Russians did not pray in temples, but insteadadhered to idols and the natural world. The sun, wind and earth were consideredsigns of a higher power. The world of the pagans was full of demons and secretmagic powers that were thought to be the vehicles of divinity. They also believedin benevolent and malignant spirits, which inhabited woods, fields, rivers andhouses (Zernov 6). Although paganism seemed to differ widely from Orthodox Christianity,many characteristics and customs were later borrowed by the Christian tradition.
It was believed that Christianity was brought to the East Slavs in 988. Thiswas the year that Christianity was recognized as the official state religionand when the royal family was baptized. The chief source of this informationwas from the Primary Chronicles and the Nestor Chronicles,the oldest pieces of writing to describe the adoption of Christianity (Tschizewskil23). It was Prince Vladimir of Kiev who was ultimately responsible for changingthe religion among his people. He, himself, invited the missionaries from theCrimea and their influence laid the foundation of the Russian Church. The missionarieshad borrowed both the Eastern and Western elements of the Christian traditionand brought it to Russia (Zernov 5). The beliefs and customs of Christianitywere not completely solid concepts; rather many different things influencedthem.
The concept of dual faith or dvoeverie is the interaction between two systemsof belief. For the Russians, it was the combination of Christianity and paganism.Dual faith was ultimately one of the keys to Russian Orthodoxy. When the adoptionof Christianity occurred, there was not an initial opposition as one might think.Since paganism lacked organization and literature, Christianity was receivedeasily. The nature of the external elements such as the divine service and theritual were acceptable to the people. There was a problem, though. Once the Christianrite was excluded, the nature of the ceremonies would be paganistic (Schmemann301). Therefore, it is evident that even though Christianity was introduced tothe people, it was not accepted immediately. It took a number of years for theChristianfaith to become dominant in the Russian culture.
As in some historical underground its own concealed life went on, now with doublemeaning and dual faith ... The borrowed Byzantine Christian culture did not immediatelybecome generally accepted (Schmemann 301).

This statement further exemplifies that the Christian faith was not immediate,but instead a gradual change. The people still continued to believe in theirnatural surroundings, but also adopted the divine service.
The introduction of dual faith brought forth many creations, which incorporatedboth Christianity and paganism. For example, folk embroidery, icons and woodworkall combined natural elements and Christian traditions. In 988 when the introductionof Christianity began, Prince Vladimir tried to eliminate all traces of paganism,but he was unable to destroy all the gods that were worshipped. As a result,Slavic gods and the sky-god Perun were given new life in icons and in folk art(Hilton 55). For example, the icon of St. George killing the dragon incorporatedancient influences and the continued practice of pagan worship. These remainingsymbols of paganism demonstrated the resilience of the Russian people to letgo of their prior beliefs. Ornamentation included circles, rosettes and rhomboidswould stand for the sun, while crescents and stars represented the moon. Othernatural elements exemplified include fish, animals, hunters, horseman and water(Hilton 56). These symbols are abound in all the Christian paintings and decorations.Although many clergy forbade paganistic ways, they found themselves engulfedwith pagan influence.
While the pagans were being forced to convert into Christianity, they adaptedtheir old ways into a new, forced faith. Many of the old pagan gods were transformedinto the guises of favorite Christian saints. For example, Volos, protector ofherds, was connected by like-sounding name and function with St. Blasius (Vlasii),who had lived with the wild animals. St. George was linked to the god Apollodue to his connection as a warrior and patron to Russian princes. Even the VirginMother was connected with Mokush, the goddess embodying the mysteries of MotherEarth. Their common emphasis on birth and protection brought the two togetheras one (Hilton 56). Through these examples, it can be shown that paganism wassubtly introduced into Christianity. Although the icons contained the imagesof Christian saints, the pagans were not worshipping them. Rather, they wererecognizing their natural gods.
Another pagan influence on Christianity is evident in common prayers. Many ofthe prayers addressed to the saints were not recited to them at all. Instead,they were real adaptations of pagan charms or zagovory. Important things foundin nature such as rivers, springs and trees were incorporated into these songs.The name of Lado, deity of love, appeared in songs for planting and weddings.In addition, Saint Paraskeva who was replaced by an earlier Slavic goddess wasalso used in prayer songs. On Fridays, women would celebrate their cult and gatherto honor Saint Paraskeva (Hilton 61). Unknown to the Christian leaders, pagansymbols continued to be introduced into religious songs and prayers. The incorporationof Christianity in the Russian culture did not stop paganism automatically.
New churches built within Russia also demonstrated paganistic influences. Churchesbuilt by Vladimir in Kiev and Novgorod were designed with great frescoes andmosaics. In addition, these churches include ancient symbols of circles and rhomboids.Similar decorations are found in other churches all over Russia. Depictions ofvegetation, animals, and mythological creatures abound in ancient churches (Hilton56). All of these natural images were accepted into the Christian churches. Clergyand followers simply believed that these elements were a part of the faith. Churchart with pagan influences continued to flourish and was adapted into the mainstreamRussian culture.
After the acceptance of Christianity, another adoption was taken from the pagans:the idea of cremation. The initial concept of cremation was borrowed from thepagans and used in the Christian faith. Through the examination of burial moundsfrom the sixth century, it was revealed that those who believed in paganism woulddispose of dead bodies by burning them in a pile. The ashes would later be placedin an urn or in a hole in the ground. In the ninth century, interment began toreplace cremation. Eventually, though, cremation began to be reintroduced intothe Christian faith (Fennell 78). Christianity developed from elements in thepagan tradition. Even when the Russian tsars outlawed pagan tribute, it was stillincorporated into the Christian religion.
Paganism came to an end at the beginning of the thirteenth century. At that point,it was engulfed in every aspect of Orthodox Christianity. No longer did Russianspray to various manifestations in nature, instead they worshipped in templesand churches. No longer did Russians pray in an unorganized manner, instead theyparticipated in a centralized priesthood. The pagans eventually converted toOrthodox Christianity, but they also brought many influences into the religion.Icons, frescoes, prayers and burial practices all have founding traces of thepagan influence. Although paganism is forgotten, many of its features remainin todays Christiansociety.

Bibliography
Brumfield, William, and Milos Velimirovic. Christianity and the Arts in Russia. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1991.

Fennell, John. A History of the Russian Church to 1448. London and New York: Longman Group Limited, 1995.

Schmemann, Alexander. The Historical Road of Eastern Orthodoxy. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1963.

Tschizewskij, Dmitrij. Russian Intellectual History. Ann Harbor: Ardis, 1978.

Zernov, Nicolas. The Russians and their Church. Crestwood: St. Vladimirs Seminary Press, 1978.
 




yannick

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#59
Some reasons, according to me, why Jesus is not God:

1. Jesus took birth and therefore had a beginning while God Always Existed, without any beginning nor end, He Himself Being The First and The Last, The Alpha and The Omega.
2. Nobody has seen God but logic dictates that behind one's intelligence and inability to explain why he or she was granted such a body/family, there is obligatorily a Higher Intelligence which we all refer to as God, or The Supreme Being simply.

3. It doesn't befit The One Who Always Existed to take on the form of a being who needs to eat and who therefore has a weakness.

Simple as ABC, right? Everybody can understand. No need to look at it from a religious viewpoint. Just simply believe in God and always do good unto others as you would have liked the same good to be done to you!
 




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#60
Some reasons, according to me, why Jesus is not God:

1. Jesus took birth and therefore had a beginning while God Always Existed, without any beginning nor end, He Himself Being The First and The Last, The Alpha and The Omega.
2. Nobody has seen God but logic dictates that behind one's intelligence and inability to explain why he or she was granted such a body/family, there is obligatorily a Higher Intelligence which we all refer to as God, or The Supreme Being simply.

3. It doesn't befit The One Who Always Existed to take on the form of a being who needs to eat and who therefore has a weakness.

Simple as ABC, right? Everybody can understand. No need to look at it from a religious viewpoint. Just simply believe in God and always do good unto others as you would have liked the same good to be done to you!

This may surprise you but there is a difference between God and human beings.

You can thank mom and dad for your body and you can thank God for your spirit. Now if God who is Spirit want to be born as a human being then He just needs a biological body no problem. And according to Scripture and not your sense of befitting God or not sins are atoned with blood only.

And that is why God was born as a human being to atone with His blood for our crimes. So you can repent sin no more and live with God forever.