10 Reasons Why Jesus Is Not God!

vigilante71

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If by that you mean the original meaning can be lost (on us) through our incorrect interpretive frameworks, I agree.
I think that since translation is performed by another human, who has an impression of the original text and interprets it based on that impression, it can change the meaning of the original text. It's true about every book, the translation hardly sends the original message. But I also agree with you, that we could make a mistake in the process of understanding since we all have our ideas and frameworks, and those could be wrong.
 

Serveto

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I suspect that the only thing that might sway your view is if the prophetic events anticipated both in the Qur'an and the Bible happen in our lifetime. There are reasons for thinking that they may.

I would acquaint yourself with what might happen from a Biblical perspective, even it you currently think such ideas are groundless speculation based on an inferior Book.
What if those prophecies, Quranic (combined with hadith) and Biblical, when read, understood and interpreted in one way, are not discordant but seem to converge and dove-tail?

That was one of the most interesting, in fact compelling, aspects of Islam to me, when I, as an absolute novice, first became familiar with it and was immersed in its culture (abroad): that Muhammad did not prophesy his own return, but rather that of Jesus. I figure that if Muhammad were merely self-serving, he wouldn't have given that to "Isa, son of Mariam," even though most Christians will understandably insist and maintain that Muhammad's Jesus is "another Jesus." Naturally, they will be helped in that regard by the literary, now practically industrial output of Joel Rosenberg and others of his (partisan) type, proving, or trying to prove, those Islamic prophecies as against so called "Judeo-Christianity (read: Zionist-Christianity)" proper, and that they may well be, and probably are, but some of us won't be readily led by Rosenberg and his lot and can see things differently, a wider panorama, greater possibilities, even if, given the as yet indeterminate nature of prophecies concerning the future, not all things are realized, solidified into accomplished fact.
 
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TokiEl

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I tend to believe God has sent someone to show us how to behave, to teach us the way to live, to guide us to Him, rather than to say he stepped down or sent his son to get killed for our sins! That's what I understand from manifesting the Word of God into flesh. That someone as a living proof of God's existence and the righteous way of life is sent to guide us. God can forgive all of our sins, when we deserve it, it's not necessary to come down as a human and get killed by us so that we could believe him, and the holy spirit comes within us, and we'd be saved. God will save us from sins, when we turn onto him and his messengers and try to obey him, and that save could be done under the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is not necessarily God himself. It is a spirit from God. I'm still trying to make sense of Holy Spirit though.
God told Noah to establish courts of justice.

What is the point of that if you can say sorry and be forgiven ? No we got to pay the price for our crime. And no other man nor animal can step in and pay it for us. Only the Creator if He is willing.

If God is willing He can pay the price for our crimes... and let us go free.

And that is what happened. God was willing to do that for us so we can repent and sin no more and be forgiven.

Else we will end up with the devil and his angels in that fiery furnace called Hell.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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What if those prophecies, Quranic (combined with hadith) and Biblical, when read, understood and interpreted in one way, are not discordant but seem to converge and dove-tail?

That was one of the most interesting, in fact compelling, aspects of Islam to me, when I, as an absolute novice, first became familiar with it and was immersed in its culture (abroad): that Muhammad did not prophesy his own return, but rather that of Jesus. I figure that if Muhammad were merely self-serving, he wouldn't have given that to "Isa, son of Mariam," even though most Christians will understandably insist and maintain that Muhammad's Jesus is "another Jesus." Naturally, they will be helped in that regard by the literary, now practically industrial output of Joel Rosenberg and others of his (partisan) type, proving, or trying to prove, those Islamic prophecies as against so called "Judeo-Christianity (read: Zionist-Christianity)" proper, and that they may well be, and probably are, but some of us don't need Rosenberg and his lot to see things differently, a wider panorama, greater possibilities, even if, given the as yet indeterminate nature of prophecies concerning the future, not all things are realized, solidified into accomplished fact.
Certainly the Islamic and Biblical prophecies have elements in common. You can see overlap, but there is also contradiction.

It reminds me of the kind of assignment my English teacher was fond of setting. He would get to the last chapters then ask the students to write the ending in advance. Typically, people in the story and do something dramatic in line with their character development earlier in the tale. Still, these last chapters rarely ended the same way.

As with literature lessons, so with prophecy. The Qur'an in particular has a very different view of what Jesus will do when he returns the the picture painted in the Bible.
 

Serveto

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Certainly the Islamic and Biblical prophecies have elements in common. You can see overlap, but there is also contradiction.

It reminds me of the kind of assignment my English teacher was fond of setting. He would get to the last chapters then ask the students to write the ending in advance. Typically, people in the story and do something dramatic in line with their character development earlier in the tale. Still, these last chapters rarely ended the same way.

As with literature lessons, so with prophecy. The Qur'an in particular has a very different view of what Jesus will do when he returns the the picture painted in the Bible.
That was a brilliant, imaginative thing for an English teacher to do. Regarding your statement that the "Quran ... has a very different view of what Jesus will do when he returns [than] the picture painted in the Bible," I will point out that, apparently, and speaking of contradictions, as you were, the picture painted in the Bible is seen differently by Jews and Christians as well, and they read some of the same books. The Jews were, and are, expecting one thing of the Messiah, the Christians quite another, and those two are at perpetual loggerheads, even if they have recently formed politically convenient, expedient alliances.


At this point, all three of what I consider essentially sects, or branches of the Abrahamic, Near Eastern/Semitic religion are following their own apocalyptic agendas, and it will be fascinating to see if, after a few false and mistaken candidates, the "true" Messiah will reconcile the irreconcilable, effect a reconciliation of apparent opposites, and finally fit the bill for all three. That, to me, might be practical -if not necessarily spiritual- proof that he is the man.

Sometimes, in these discussions, I am reminded of what George Bernard Shaw said of the English and Americans: that they are "two countries, divided by a common language." To borrow and apply that wit, I think Christians, Muslims and ultimately Jews might be united by an uncommon Jesus.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Which is why I took care to add a caveat: "it will be fascinating to see if, after a few false and mistaken candidates, the "true" Messiah will reconcile the irreconcilable ..." I think, at first glance, one can reasonably chalk any candidate who appears in a triple tiara, claiming to be the legitimate successor to the humble, if at times temperamental and tempestuous fisherman, Peter, as at best suspect.;)


No need for apologies. Not meaning to make light of the situation in Northern Ireland, though he was further north of England, and may have been a bit dodgy himself, I do sometimes miss the redoubtable Ian Paisley at times. He always brought a certain, well, Je ne sais quoi -let's say unapologetically polemical Protestant spice to the would-be ecumenical banquet table, which he shook about unsparingly, and certainly kept things lively.
I would not go so far as to definitively call anyone on the current political or religious landscape the Antichrist. As with all things in the end, "ye shall know them by their fruits".
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Not to sound hopeless, which I certainly am not, but I do sometimes wonder if, in an era of what Orwell rightly called "universal deceit," even that criterion, taken from agriculture, will be applicable in an era of gmo's, or genetically modified organisms: how much longer, I rhetorically ask, will trees be identifiable by their fruits?
I don't think that period has been termed "The Great Deception" for nothing!
 

vigilante71

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I suspect that the only thing that might sway your view is if the prophetic events anticipated both in the Qur'an and the Bible happen in our lifetime. There are reasons for thinking that they may.

I would acquaint yourself with what might happen from a Biblical perspective, even it you currently think such ideas are groundless speculation based on an inferior Book.
Well, I watched the video, and it was quite interesting for me to understand the opposite perspective, but to be honest, It seemed to me that (the video) was purposefully trying to support Israel's agenda of establishing a state in Jerusalem. There were many wild guesses about who are going to be the enemies of Israel, and Gog and Magog, and the narrator spoke with a weird certainty. I knew Israel is justifying his moves based on some verses in Torah, but I didn't know what exactly they were. I can't deny there is truth in those prophecies, but I don't think Israel named in Book of Ezekiel is the Israel we know. I just can't bring my mind to it that God will defend the people who will kill mercilessly and want to take their land back from the people who just happen to live there as the course of history. Aside from that, Muslims believe that the war of Gog and Magog will happen after Isa (pbuh) has descended on earth, and have different views on who exactly they are. I have a hard time believing that Jesus would run to help the very people that rejected him.:rolleyes: I don't know, and I can be wrong, but I think Israel and the rest of the world are trying so, so hard to force-fulfill these prophecies according to their wishes. I don't think gathering Jews from around the world and establishing a country with the name of Israel by force, and evicting others from their home is the will of God or could even be justified by some verses.

" And recall when We made a covenant with the Children of Israel: “You shall serve none but Allah and do good to parents, kinsmen, orphans and the needy; you shall speak kindly to people, and establish Prayer and give Zakah (Purifying Alms). And yet, except for a few of you, you turned back on this covenant, and you are still backsliders." (2:83)
"And recall when We made a covenant with you, that you shall not shed one another’s blood, and shall not turn out one another from your homelands; you confirmed it, and you yourselves are witnesses to it." (2:84)
"And here you are, killing one another, turning out a party of your own from their homelands, aiding one another against them in sin and enmity, and if they come to you as captives you ransom them although the very act of expelling them was unlawful to you. Do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest? What else, then, could be the retribution of those among you who do this than that they should live in degradation in the present life, and that on the Day of Resurrection they should be sent to the severest chastisement? Allah is not heedless of what you do." (2:85)
"These are the ones who have bought the present life in exchange for the World to Come. Their chastisement shall not be lightened, nor shall they be helped." (2:86)

Those verses have their own story in Arab's history, but I think that history could possibly be repeated again in a different way, and I don't think God will justify these killings and occupying, even if they are of other religions. If there is a victory, it will be of Jesus, and those who believed in him and his God.
 

yannick

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Another reason why we shouldn't consider Jesus as God is simple: to ward off a dire evil.

The evil that any human being should liken himself to Jesus and thereafter consider his own self to be God when that very same human being is just the same as any of us, mere mortals.

Jesus was a very special man, and still is for that matter. But that ends there. He has needs like we all do. Only God Remains Needless and Truly Exceptionally Unique.
 
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