“Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone”

Red Sky at Morning

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This question came up in another thread…

…Remember when Jesus said... Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone (Mark 10:18).
This begs a critical question:

If no one is good but God (and Jesus is not God, as Islam claims) then logically Jesus MUST have been something less than truly good, and therefore a sinner to one degree or another.

Do you find that to add up with what you read of Him in the Bible (or even in extra-Biblical credible sources) @Daze ?

If so, can you elaborate?

p.s. I have asked this question as it is an area of discussion that has come up numerous times but does not appear to have been unpacked as an idea clearly.
 






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Is that your logic? Cuz it's pretty dumb.
If Jesus isnt a sinner, that doesnt make him perfect, he's still limited.

Also, islam isnt the one 'claiming', xtianity is the one claiming he is God.
Christianity much life sufism understands how God is Trancendent and Immanent and hence it understands that the Logos represents that Immanence and doesnt believe Jesus to be God directly.

At the same time the Logos is much bigger than Jesus the white boy. It is the universal conciousness. You can think of God's immanence and the logos interchangeably. It is the same thing. God is Immanent in all things.

If you wish to still beleive Jesus is Fully God then extend it to the logos, as it is on account of the logos that this is possible anyway. Xtians do not wish to acknowledge this. They limit it to white boy jezuz, when there have been many incarnations already. Even the logos and incarnation ideas are not judaism but hinduism. Xtianity is basically just a white rip off and a bad interpretation of hinduism.

The question is why the roman pagan churh made man into God? It was to rob people of their personal connection to the primordial power and to force humans into following the church system with its tithes. When protestants rebelled, the satanic elite just let the whore of babylon run wild and now people are happy to pay 45% income tax, car tax, road tax, vat and not even guaranteed a pension....and they mock islam where dhimmi status left them paying 10% tax without an obligation to defend the land with their lives.

Furthermore im confident that an extention of the singular white boy jezuz as God image was done to make this artificial image an embodiment of roman imperialism...eg Rome killed that guy...and he was God. So what does that make Rome?
Even God submits to Rome, smh.
 






TokiEl

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At the same time the Logos is much bigger than Jesus the white boy. It is the universal conciousness.
Matthew 17:1After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James, and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

3Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three sheltersa—one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.b Listen to Him!” 6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown in terror.



2 Peter 1:16For we did not follow cleverly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Is that your logic? Cuz it's pretty dumb.
If Jesus isnt a sinner, that doesnt make him perfect, he's still limited.

Also, islam isnt the one 'claiming', xtianity is the one claiming he is God.
I think Jesus is asking a Socratic question. The person is invited to consider Jesus’s actions and stack them up against what “goodness” actually is. As the man is asking what good thing he must do to be saved (the question of religious people) Jesus answers by highlighting the area the questioner falls short of perfection.

We all fall short of perfection and might ask “who then can be saved”!? That’s when some abandon religion and realise they need a saviour…
 






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Matthew 17:1After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James, and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

3Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three sheltersa—one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

5While Peter was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.b Listen to Him!” 6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown in terror.



2 Peter 1:16For we did not follow cleverly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
why are you making images of your God?
 






TokiEl

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At the same time the Logos is much bigger than Jesus the white boy. It is the universal conciousness. You can think of God's immanence and the logos interchangeably. It is the same thing. God is Immanent in all things.

If you wish to still beleive Jesus is Fully God then extend it to the logos, as it is on account of the logos that this is possible anyway.
John 1 43The next day Jesus decided to set out for Galilee. Finding Philip, He told him, “Follow Me.” 44Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the same town as Andrew and Peter.

45Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the One Moses wrote about in the Law, the One the prophets foretold—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

46“Can anything good come from Nazareth?” Nathanael asked.

“Come and see,” said Philip.

47When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, He said of him, “Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is no deceit.”

48“How do You know me?” Nathanael asked.

Jesus replied, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the fig tree.”

49“Rabbi,” Nathanael answered, “You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

50Jesus said to him, “Do you believe just because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than these.” 51Then He declared, “Truly, truly, I tell you, you will all see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”
 






Lil axe

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thanks for everyone showing different views, i usually enjoy everyones different views

thank you aspiring soul for helping me to learn new things, alot of your terms i have to look up, but thank you, it is helping me to learn
 






Onatramnas

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Jesus doesnt know you....
Yet you think he is God...
And yet you post images depicting jesus.....
Your words brought to mind Psalm 3
1 O LORD, how my adversaries have increased! Many are rising up against me.
2 Many are saying of my soul, "There is no deliverance for him in God." Selah.
3 But You, O LORD, are a shield about me, My glory, and the One who lifts my head.
4 I was crying to the LORD with my voice, And He answered me from His holy mountain. Selah.
5 I lay down and slept; I awoke, for the LORD sustains me.
6 I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people Who have set themselves against me round about.
7 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God! For You have smitten all my enemies on the cheek; You have shattered the teeth of the wicked.
8 Salvation belongs to the LORD; Your blessing be upon Your people! Selah.

Though adversaries are always trying to get us to believe lies about our Creator, Savior, Lord, we have this confidence that our God does indeed know us, He hears us and He answers. So great is our confidence that we can sleep in peace and awake sustained by our God. We are not afraid because we know the character of our God, we believe in His promises because He is faithful. Even if 10,000 rise against us, we aren’t afraid. It’s great, you should try it.
 






Daze

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This question came up in another thread…



This begs a critical question:

If no one is good but God (and Jesus is not God, as Islam claims) then logically Jesus MUST have been something less than truly good, and therefore a sinner to one degree or another.

Do you find that to add up with what you read of Him in the Bible (or even in extra-Biblical credible sources) @Daze ?

If so, can you elaborate?

p.s. I have asked this question as it is an area of discussion that has come up numerous times but does not appear to have been unpacked as an idea clearly.
Well this is the 2nd time you have quoted me and used it to make threads. Are you getting desperate for content Red?

The explanation is simple. Only God is perfect, Jesus is simply saying he is not perfect because he's not God. I mean a 4 year old can understand this one.

There are so many flaws with worshiping Jesus Red, i mean the man says "my God, MY God, why have you forsaken me!!
The man is often described as praying with face on ground in Your Book. You worship the worshiper.
The man tells you in several verses he can do absolutely Nothing without God in Your book.
The man tells you God gave him life.
Numerous verses show all who were around Jesus saw him as a Prophet and called him as such.

I mean i can go on, there are over 90 Verses in Your book that reject your core beliefs.


Here's something interesting. I was watching a video the other day and Rabbi Tovia (same guy i referenced last time)... He was explaining how massive Christian book stores are. Some of them half the size of Walmart. He said they have massive sections explaining the trinity. Not books, book cases. Entire sections.

Then he goes on to say, go into a Jewish book store and ask where the books are that explain the one-ness of God and you will get laughed at as there is no such thing. So why do Christians need libraries to explain trinitarianism Red? Rather telling, isn't it?

Watch it, you know you want to.


Grave is the word of those who say God has taken a son, they speak nothing but a lie. (Quran 18: 4-5)
 






DavidSon

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...The question is why the roman pagan churh made man into God? It was to rob people of their personal connection to the primordial power and to force humans into following the church system with its tithes. When protestants rebelled, the satanic elite just let the whore of babylon run wild and now people are happy to pay 45% income tax, car tax, road tax, vat and not even guaranteed a pension....and they mock islam where dhimmi status left them paying 10% tax without an obligation to defend the land with their lives.
Witnessing the dynamics and end result of their fabricated belief system is horrifying. This board is microcosm of Western society, littered with mad, delusional, dissociated personalities imprisoned through theology and mental inventions. With an imaginary version of Jesus as a crutch well then nothing is real. There's no accountability or willingness to face the judgement of God pressing on us at every moment (or divine bliss for that matter). The xtians as you call them go chasing wild conspiracy theories, one after another like a drug addiction. They're getting high on the imaginary, lost in the realm of make-believe. Demons, dreams, miracles... fantasies like nuclear war or the rapture. We know the military targets these lost souls because they're so impressionable and open to suggestion. The financiers and money changers bank on the dissonance of these dreamers.

We shouldn't forget religion and scripture are here to empower the individual. Legends are wonderful but their purpose is to inspire YOU. Guys memorizing the names of families in the Bible- what about concentrating on your own wife? YOU are a seed of God! Faith doesn't arise from someone outside yourself. Faith is knowing within. There's more power in staring at water than the ridiculous theories I hear from Christians. It's all around us but most importantly the Kingdom of God is within.
 






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Witnessing the dynamics and end result of their fabricated belief system is horrifying. This board is microcosm of Western society, littered with mad, delusional, dissociated personalities imprisoned through theology and mental inventions. With an imaginary version of Jesus as a crutch well then nothing is real. There's no accountability or willingness to face the judgement of God pressing on us at every moment (or divine bliss for that matter). The xtians as you call them go chasing wild conspiracy theories, one after another like a drug addiction. They're getting high on the imaginary, lost in the realm of make-believe. Demons, dreams, miracles... fantasies like nuclear war or the rapture. We know the military targets these lost souls because they're so impressionable and open to suggestion. The financiers and money changers bank on the dissonance of these dreamers.

We shouldn't forget religion and scripture are here to empower the individual. Legends are wonderful but their purpose is to inspire YOU. Guys memorizing the names of families in the Bible- what about concentrating on your own wife? YOU are a seed of God! Faith doesn't arise from someone outside yourself. Faith is knowing within. There's more power in staring at water than the ridiculous theories I hear from Christians. It's all around us but most importantly the Kingdom of God is within.
If Jesus is God how can he not know every single person, every living organism, every grain of sand...in the entire universe?
Yet Jesus isnt going to know a bunch of sinful xtians.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Well this is the 2nd time you have quoted me and used it to make threads. Are you getting desperate for content Red?
Not at all @Daze - a number of people have used that verse without working through its implications. I wanted you to consider them as in doing so it may open your eyes to the meaning of the passage.

The man and the reader are both invited to consider the question “why do you call me good?”. In doing so, the commandments are set as the standard and the man falls short due to covetousness.

To the question, does Jesus fall short?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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If Jesus is God how can he not know every single person, every living organism, every grain of sand...in the entire universe?
Yet Jesus isnt going to know a bunch of sinful xtians.
How do you interpret this @AspiringSoul

“Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

(Philippians 2:5-8).

Genuine question - was Paul an xtian?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Witnessing the dynamics and end result of their fabricated belief system is horrifying. This board is microcosm of Western society, littered with mad, delusional, dissociated personalities imprisoned through theology and mental inventions. With an imaginary version of Jesus as a crutch well then nothing is real. There's no accountability or willingness to face the judgement of God pressing on us at every moment (or divine bliss for that matter). The xtians as you call them go chasing wild conspiracy theories, one after another like a drug addiction. They're getting high on the imaginary, lost in the realm of make-believe. Demons, dreams, miracles... fantasies like nuclear war or the rapture. We know the military targets these lost souls because they're so impressionable and open to suggestion. The financiers and money changers bank on the dissonance of these dreamers.

We shouldn't forget religion and scripture are here to empower the individual. Legends are wonderful but their purpose is to inspire YOU. Guys memorizing the names of families in the Bible- what about concentrating on your own wife? YOU are a seed of God! Faith doesn't arise from someone outside yourself. Faith is knowing within. There's more power in staring at water than the ridiculous theories I hear from Christians. It's all around us but most importantly the Kingdom of God is within.
C.S. Lewis once famously posed the trichotomy “liar, lunatic or Lord”. Later the same Bishop of Durham that rejected the Virgin Birth added “Legend” as another “L”.

The problem is that study from early materials and hostile witnesses refute the legend hypotheses. You may think Christians who believe the Bible are crazed loons @DavidSon - in the end, everyone who knows about Jesus takes a position (based on contempt, pity, faith or cunning) on who He is.

I have taken mine - Lord. You appear to take Legend. One day, we get to find out.
 






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How do you interpret this @AspiringSoul

“Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

(Philippians 2:5-8).

Genuine question - was Paul an xtian?
I'm fully aware of such verses, but with me, i have a consistent approach where i include all parts of scripture (that is, the bible in this case), whereas with you, you're happy to apply selective amnesia whenever it suits you just to get by in a little online discussion.

This is easy to understand when you keep in mind that the Father is the only one that is Trancendent. The Son and holy spirit represent the Immanence of God. They are powerless on their own.

Example in the trinitarian doctrine it claims the son and holy spirit are 'co equals in Godhead' yet Jesus rejects that and makes it clear the holy spirit takes from the Son. a clear heirarchy, contradicting this bogus trinitarian doctrine.


as for Paul. it's funny how obsesed you are with islam, yet you forget that Surah 18 in the Quran is named after a 3rd century christian story, the 7 sleepers of the cave. Juraij mentioned in hadith as a man of God, is St George, again a 3rd century christian.
the Quran says the believers (in Jesus) from the jews, were victorious over the non-believers, ie they gained the upper hand theologically. So that legitimises Paul given it was his version that won.


It's just that you guys don't quite understand that the Logos/Son is transparent, akin to a prism...the primordial Essence, the 'unknowable Father' is expressed through the Son and the holy spirit. The Son and holy spirit represent the macrocosmic and microcosmic expression.
so when i talk of the Son/logos, im not on about one incarnation, Jesus, im on about the universal consciousness..

Still, my understanding is like this
the primordial power, expresses consciousness in 0 and in all numbers.
0 represents infinty...and all numbers are expressions of infinity.
that is the macrocosmic and microcosmic expression...
all numbers belong to 0, all consciousness belongs to the logos and is from the logos, returns to the logos.
'God' is more of a function that enables the whole process of expression....but it is the Father that is the power functioning through all levels of consciousness, immanent in all things.


'he existed in the form of God'
doesnt mean he is/was God
'existed in' 'the form of God' just another reference to the Logos.

'equality with God' is the same as ibn arabi's concept of 'unity of Being' 'unity with God', it is the point where personal consciousness dissolves into universal consciousness and the only thing that remains in the experience, is transparency giving way to only the light of God. that is 'self' disappears and only God remains and the will of God.
hence 'Jesus EMPTIED himself' ie the self disappeared and only God remained. He did not regard himself as God
did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
transparent prism....empties itself, becomes nothing

try and have a little think about what 'universal consciousness' means when we currently have an understanding of the cosmos, where 100-200 billion galaxies exist in just the observable universe..and all of that is just the lowest heaven, the physical plane.


you're too obsessed with the jewish guy as a symbol of roman colonial conquest and white superiority.
it's why in the hadith prophecy it says Jesus will 'break the cross and kill the pig'. it means the cross is now the symbol of western imperialism (and we know that's true eg union jack or the crusades) and the pig represents capitalism and materialistic culture.
it is obv which version islam is antagonistic towards. it isnt authentic christianity, it is ROME/The beast.
 






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