- Jul 20, 2019
First off, I will say Robin that I appreciate your attitude and general worldview more than any of the others I have encountered here. You speak from a view I very much relate to in many ways. Not identical but very relateable.Honestly, I'm just sticking to reading God's word and trying to grow in my relationship with Him. That's where my focus is. Study into the different interpretations or schools of thought form part of things I look into, yes, but they don't undermine my faith or call it into question. Again to believe that there is all this red tape around a relationship with the Creator is to pretty much exclude those who cannot surpass the initial "naivety". What hope does the average Joe have in God outside of the assumptions of the text head on?
There are two basic things from this quote here:
1. Is God is beyond religion, that is the fundamental truth of reality itself.This is itself a massive problem with proselytizing, as well as the kinds of antagonistic preaching I have received around here falls into the category of worshiping the religion itself, rather than worshiping God.
2. But to determine religions themselves, to actually have knowledge and understanding does require work.And of course factoring in the differences of views within a particular religion too. Aside from this, when it comes to Islam and Judaism, there are a lot of things I know Christians struggle with in understanding them and it is something that cannot be avoided when representing them (Islam and Judaism) and the complexity of their theology, history, lifestyles and so forth. When it comes to what varies between polemic and outright bashing on this forum, there is no room for discussion, let alone understanding of these things.
These are not solely my 'religious leanings' speaking but, I will proceed:Outside of the bias of your own religious leanings
One simple, easily identifiable thing for instance would be Jesus' actual allegorical symbology such as terms like "The Father", "The Son" and so forth. To say things the least controversially, there are interpretations inherent (and historically valid) in these texts that are very different from the kind of Christianity that you may follow. Certainly, if you've studied any Monistic philosophy many of Jesus' (attributed) sayings will make a lot more and even more profounder sense. Aside from this there is the situation of Christian theology going and taking his allegories and applying them to Jesus himself literally and not allowing closer examination.I have to ask why you say the meanings in Christianity are reversed? Can you offer me something concrete? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious. And you still haven't answered my question as to why God would layer such meaning thus making it incomprehensible to many people. Why would he choose to implement a plan of salvation that requires even some amount of skill to decipher when the very people who need it most are most unlikely to possess it?
The most significant reversal would be turning the idea of Jesus from a wise prophet descending down light to mankind, it rather doctrinally became a matter of worshiping Jesus-as-God, literally. This clearly contradicts the very principles of the Old Testament but I will avoid hammering it to you.
Yes, and part of my point there is that it is easy for a Christian to recognize this in their own supposed faith and get very offended by it, however in the situation of another faith, there is the repetitive notion (in my experience with the Christians here) to use that as a valid representation of the other's religion, which results in the very hypocrisy I've been speaking about.What I was condemning in this scenario was a doctrine that not only moved directly against the very words of Jesus on this issue but that caused many to reject faith in God.
And I only say this in my first reply to Dalit because it has been happening, not that I have any axe to grind with Christianity myself (as you may remember me saying somewhere here, I do appreciate the Bible and some forms of Christianity. Aside from that Jesus is obviously one of my Prophets..)
Hopefully you understand me correctly.
Yes, I do sympathize there.See but does this forum contain all self-professing Christians. I'll put it to you this way - the majority of Muslims I've come into contact with have not been the nicest people. I have a family member married into a Muslim family so I don't have to make up experiences on this front. In fact, most have been exceptionally arrogant and bigoted in their own right and did not follow the conditions of their own faith. So much so in fact, that there is a word for them in my parents' native language that denotes a "watered-down" muslim. I haven't let that affect my opinion of Islam or its followers in future interactions though because I choose to recognise a tree by it's fruit, as Jesus said (as opposed to a tree claiming to be an apple tree but flowering oranges for example). I'm not saying what I'm saying to be cheeky or to "even the playing field". I'm just pointing out that while I'm fully aware of the common way in which many Christians live counter to their own doctrine, this is hardly an exclusive thing. I hate hypocrisy especially when it comes to this topic because that was one of the things that put a huge stumbling block in my faith. It took God's grace for me to realise that I should not let the movements of men prevent me from pursuing Him. There is nothing about Christian hypocrisy and poor representation you can tell me that I don't know or haven't personally experienced. That's why my relationship is with God and not a sect or church or label.
Right. Well the biggest messages that the Christian users of this forum (at least four of them) give off around this topic is quite an anti-church vibe. From this comes the exaggeration of the 'personal relationship' with invested interest in a subjective interpretation of the Bible. Some users have still posted videos and such from a few preachers and apologists but I do get a strong cynicism (even a bit of hatred) towards churches here, with a general view of 'I know it for myself'. Sure, I could be wrong, but this sentiment has been shared by quite a few users, which made me state the above.Many of you are sola scriptura but you clearly don't follow all of your Bible in the first place, nor regard all of it's messages as primary.
^^^ This is what my response had to do with it. Yours was based on the assumption that you know many of us and how we choose to follow our bible.
As far as the other bit, well Christianity in general does think itself to have usurped a large chunk of the laws of the Old Testament for some reason. Yes, I do already know the theological and apologetic justification for this (as well as certain quotes attributed to Jesus).
It still remains that the function of the Old Testament is missing from the Christian understanding of it, therefore a large chunk of it's messages are either rejected as irrelevant or reinterpreted through said theological and apologetic justification.
It's rather a digression on this point though nonetheless.