“Speaking the truth in love”

[Red Sky at Morning]

A wife spends an afternoon at the shops and comes home with a floaty black dress that she thinks looks chic and exudes understated class. The fabric is soft and it’s comfortable and light.

Trying in on after dinner, her husband, (still wearing his ten year old tie from the office) looks her up and down as she displays her purchase...

“You look like you are wearing a black bin bag - what were you thinking?! Why don’t you dress like Jane - she picks some great outfits, but I guess she is slimmer than you”

Hurt, she goes upstairs and looks at herself in the mirror. Her husband may have a point... but look at him!

How dare he say those things to her - after all, does he really think he is “love’s young dream!?” She puts “Beautiful” by Christina Aguilera on her earphones and builds the wall of resentment about the thoughtless oaf downstairs a little higher.

Of course, nobody here would be like the rude husband over the dress... so why are we sometimes so heavy handed with people when it comes to spiritual things? When we speak to others, do we think about how we might receive those comments if they were made to us?

In a “word to the wise”, Paul, in Ephesians 4 talks about the way we should interact with one another and the spirit in which we should do so...

“14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”​

​

I found this discussion on how to approach spiritual conversations fascinating!

 

[Lisa]

A wife spends an afternoon at the shops and comes home with a floaty black dress that she thinks looks chic and exudes understated class. The fabric is soft and it’s comfortable and light.

Trying in on after dinner, her husband, (still wearing his ten year old tie from the office) looks her up and down as she displays her purchase...

“You look like you are wearing a black bin bag - what were you thinking?! Why don’t you dress like Jane - she picks some great outfits, but I guess she is slimmer than you”

Hurt, she goes upstairs and looks at herself in the mirror. Her husband may have a point... but look at him!

How dare he say those things to her - after all, does he really think he is “love’s young dream!?” She puts “Beautiful” by Christina Aguilera on her earphones and builds the wall of resentment about the thoughtless oaf downstairs a little higher.

Of course, nobody here would be like the rude husband over the dress... so why are we sometimes so heavy handed with people when it comes to spiritual things? When we speak to others, do we think about how we might receive those comments if they were made to us?

In a “word to the wise”, Paul, in Ephesians 4 talks about the way we should interact with one another and the spirit in which we should do so...

“14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”​

Was the oaf really trying to speak the truth in love or just being uncaring?

How do you think speaking the truth in love looks like? And is that an unconditional kind of love?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Was the oaf really speaking the truth I love or just being uncaring?

How do you think speaking the truth in love looks like? And is that an unconditional kind of love?

I think when people discuss with others, what they receive from that interaction is both information and a sense of the heart condition of the other person.

If we can say what we do with the attributes of love from 1 Corinthians 13 in mind, we do well. If not we are as a “sounding brass or a clanging cymbal”.

P.s. as each of us are broken and distorted (according to the flesh) we are all on a growth curve towards the fullness of what the Lord would have us be. It is to Him that we must eventually give account for the work we do while we are here, and each of us will have generated works that are “wood, hay, straw and stubble”.

 

[Lisa]

I think when people discuss with others, what they receive from that interaction is both information and a sense of the heart condition of the other person.

If we can say what we do with the attributes of love from 1 Corinthians 13 in mind, we do well. If not we are as a “sounding brass or a clanging cymbal”.

You know what kinda annoys me, is the example you gave in the op isn’t really an example of anything but being rude. You don’t even give an example of what he could have done to speak the truth in love.

And..you post another long video to watch...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You know what kinda annoys me, is the example you gave in the op isn’t really an example of anything but being rude. You don’t even give an example of what he could have done to speak the truth in love.

And..you post another long video to watch...

I didn’t mean for you to interpret his words as speaking the truth in love - our oaf might have been brought up by parents who gave him the same kind of treatment, and in his own mind, he might be saving her from a fashion failure and long term health problems!

Perhaps if he were to speak the truth in love here, he could have tactfully pointed out that she didn’t need to wear such a dress as she had a great figure.

He might also have got over his own desire to have a trophy wife for a moment and tried to see the dress the way she did - something comfortable, not too restrictive and something she didn’t feel self conscious wearing. If he took plan B he might not have needed to say anything at all.

James 3:8-10 King James Version (KJV)

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

[Lisa]

I didn’t mean for you to interpret his words as speaking the truth in love

So, I am confused then, why bring up the oaf at all if it has nothing to do with speaking the truth in love?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So, I am confused then, why bring up the oaf at all if it has nothing to do with speaking the truth in love?

This guy has actually spoke the truth - the dress really was a mistake... but he didn’t speak the truth in love. As a result, his insulted wife rejected the message and their relationship was injured.

In my experience the tone and the spirit in which people communicate greatly impacts the reception their message gets, whether it is about clothes, my son finishing his dinner (over which I repeatedly fail because I pay for the unfinished meals!) or over spiritual things.

As there is no message more important than the Gospel, speaking the truth in love here is of primary importance. In the same way, when we talk about the things of God in general, love must be the signature of what we say because God is love. This does not mean we don’t address difficult issues with people, but that we show respect for the people we share with.

C.S. Lewis hits on this in his usual poetic style:-

“... remember that the dullest most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree helping each other to one or the other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all of our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations - these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub and exploit - immortal horrors or everlasting splendors. This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn. We must play. But our merriment must be of that kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously - no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption.”

~ C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

 

[Dalit]

This guy has actually spoke the truth - the dress really was a mistake... but he didn’t speak the truth in love. As a result, his insulted wife rejected the message and their relationship was injured.

In my experience the tone and the spirit in which people communicate greatly impacts the reception their message gets, whether it is about clothes, my son finishing his dinner (over which I repeatedly fail because I pay for the unfinished meals!) or over spiritual things.

As there is no message more important than the Gospel, speaking the truth in love here is of primary importance. In the same way, when we talk about the things of God in general, love must be the signature of what we say because God is love. This does not mean we don’t address difficult issues with people, but that we show respect for the people we share with.

C.S. Lewis hits on this in his usual poetic style:-

“... remember that the dullest most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree helping each other to one or the other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all of our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations - these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub and exploit - immortal horrors or everlasting splendors. This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn. We must play. But our merriment must be of that kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously - no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption.”

~ C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

Thanks for the convicting words. It's all good. I'm not as patient nor as loving as I would like to be, but then one must practice both.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Thanks for the convicting words. It's all good. I'm not as patient nor as loving as I would like to be, but then one must practice both.

Philippians 3

Press on Toward the Goal

12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

[Daciple]

You know what kinda annoys me, is the example you gave in the op isn’t really an example of anything but being rude. You don’t even give an example of what he could have done to speak the truth in love.

And..you post another long video to watch...

Seriously? This is what you have to say? You cant discern the point of the Post? Really doesnt seem like it because of your response, wow...

Anyways I understand what Red is trying to get across, I suffer from this all the time, regardless of it being online or in person. In Spiritual or other matters. Surprising as it sounds, I can come across very brash (that is sarcasm), and even tho many times I am speaking Truth with the intent of Love it comes off badly.

I can definitely see myself in that husband, there have been many times where I am meaning well in what I desire to say but it comes off brash or rude.

I recently had an incident with a kid at Church, he likes my daughter, my daughter likes him, and I really like him. However he has recently graduated High School and he has not made any decisions or movement towards a future at all. I tried to have a man to man talk with him, and I went to extreme lengths to build him up while also telling him that he really needs to start making moves in his life towards a future. He has no job, didnt enroll into college, has no car and had done nothing in the past few months to move him towards any type of future. He has had all the opportunities to do something, he graduated with almost a 4.0, he has plenty of money in the bank to get a car and insurance, there is nothing in his way besides his own lack of motivation.

And when I spoke to him I went out of my way to build him up, I told him how much I love him and am proud of him. I told him that I bless his relationship with my daughter, I told him I loved spending time with him ect ect ect. Yet even with all those positive things and me being very careful in my tone and words, he still took me trying to motivate him hard and ended up crying.

Now I will say that he is a rather soft individual and I dont think that either his mother or his father had ever tried to speak to him about his goals or what he needs to be doing or anything else like that, but the fact is I went into this with the right heart, I said nothing wrong or mean and even tried to do it in the right tone ect, but it still ended up affecting him negatively.

However once my daughter and wife heard about it and how he reacted to it, what I thought was going to happen, didnt. What I figured was going to happen was that they would be mad at me and think I was a jerk ect, but it actually caused both of them to reconsider what I say to them. They both knew I loved him and would never say anything mean or harsh or spiteful to him, so they both understood that he just took everything wrong.

My wife and daughter both stated to me that it made them think of the times that they ended up getting mad at me when I say things and that they probably were over reacting to it, being overly sensitive and that more than likely all I was trying to do was say something that was actually positive or in love to help them or us as a family.

So I totally get why you posted this Red and I think it is definitely something we all need to work on, and I believe we all also ought to think twice about getting our feelings hurt when people say things to us and re evaluate if they are intending to hurt us or actually saying something they truly believe would benefit us, if we were only to take it differently.

 

[Susu.mochi]

The

I didn’t mean for you to interpret his words as speaking the truth in love - our oaf might have been brought up by parents who gave him the same kind of treatment, and in his own mind, he might be saving her from a fashion failure and long term health problems!

Perhaps if he were to speak the truth in love here, he could have tactfully pointed out that she didn’t need to wear such a dress as she had a great figure.

He might also have got over his own desire to have a trophy wife for a moment and tried to see the dress the way she did - something comfortable, not too restrictive and something she didn’t feel self conscious wearing. If he took plan B he might not have needed to say anything at all.

James 3:8-10 King James Version (KJV)

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

oaf wasn't really giving the wife any good advise. He was comparing her to another person. He could have done it in a kinder more caring way. So we should take notes from that. So yes we should definetly stop taking things to heart and so personally. I find this story very relatable when I'm spreading the gospel of Jesus, online, and a bunch of people (like the oaf ) are always saying something against God and are being a bunch of naysayers. But we shouldn't get so mad. So I think it's a good story!!

 

[Vytas]

I need to make a manual for daily use out of this.

 

[Vytas]

Was the oaf really trying to speak the truth in love or just being uncaring?

How do you think speaking the truth in love looks like? And is that an unconditional kind of love?

Emphaty is part of love , if you love enough you will put an effort to think it through how your words will affect other person. Caring is part of love, if you don't care you cant love...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I got to thinking about the title “counsellor” and what makes a wonderful one.

Many people credit Carl Rogers with formulating “person centred counselling” but I think the core conditions it rests on predate him by some time...

Rogers maintains that therapists must have three attributes to create a growth-promoting climate in which individuals can move forward and become capable of becoming their true self: (1) congruence (genuineness or realness), (2) unconditional positive regard (acceptance and caring), and (3) accurate empathic understanding (an ability to deeply grasp the subjective world of another person).​

​

1. CONGRUENCE (GENUINENESS)​

Congruence refers to the therapist being real, authentic, and genuine with their clients. It’s called congruence because their inner experience and outward expression match. In being authentic, the therapist shows they are trustworthy, which helps in building a good therapeutic relationship with the client. It also serves as a model for clients, encouraging them to be their true selves, expressing their thoughts and feelings, without any sort of false front.​

​

2. UNCONDITIONAL POSITIVE REGARD and ACCEPTANCE​

Unconditional positive regard means the therapist genuinely cares for their clients and does not evaluate or judge their thoughts, feelings, or behaviors as good or bad. Each client is accepted and valued for who they are, as they are, without stipulation. Clients need not fear judgment or rejection from the therapist.​

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3. ACCURATE EMPATHIC UNDERSTANDING​

Accurate empathic understanding means that the therapist understands their client’s experience and feelings in an accurate and compassionate way. The therapist recognizes that each client’s experience is subjective and therefore strives to see things from the client’s unique perspective. An important part of accurate empathic understanding is for the therapist to convey that they “get it” by reflecting the client’s experience back to them. This encourages clients to become more reflective with themselves, which allows for greater understanding of themselves.​

​

If you’ve ever had an experience where you felt like someone just really got you…they completely understood where you were coming from, or could truly relate to the way you felt – that’s accurate empathic understanding.​

The thing is, this kind of therapy goes to the other side of the communication spectrum from our brusque husband, as it doesn’t share with the person any truths they are not ready or willing to hear!

My feeling is that if we have shared in love but the truth we share is rejected, we will know that we have not personally been the thing that has pushed someone away.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The problem with the unconditional love, that “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things” is than in our humanity we fall short. There are some people we can empathise with far better than others, some weaknesses in others we can overlook because we share them or have struggled to overcome them, whereas other weaknesses are things we have never stumbled over and judge others more harshly over them as a result. With some people we can be genuine and relaxed, sharing our true selves while fe find ourselves putting up a poker face and keeping our guard with.

In short, we can’t truly act in love those who hate us without the Lord giving us that love. When we hit “empty”, we need to return to the source of living waters so we can give a cup of water to those who need it.

 

[Dalit]

The problem with the unconditional love, that “bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things” is than in our humanity we fall short. There are some people we can empathise with far better than others, some weaknesses in others we can overlook because we share them or have struggled to overcome them, whereas other weaknesses are things we have never stumbled over and judge others more harshly over them as a result. With some people we can be genuine and relaxed, sharing our true selves while fe find ourselves putting up a poker face and keeping our guard with.

In short, we can’t truly act in love those who hate us without the Lord giving us that love. When we hit “empty”, we need to return to the source of living waters so we can give a cup of water to those who need it.

So so true! My problem is that I'm running on empty half the time, but that is my own fault.

I was unkind to my dad today and used the "I'm tired" excuse and the "I'm not a morning person" excuse and the "maybe I'm just a big a-hole" excuse. No, I manned up or womanned up (since I'm a woman) and apologized. He told me that he felt unloved by me, not that bluntly but it was the underlying implication. I was there early in the morning to help him so I wanted to protest "Of course, I love you! I'm standing here, aren't I? I'm doing all the work for you. I want you to love me more than anything and to have a better relationship with you." His neediness and bluntness bother me. I'm not fond of either. All I said was I needed to go soon because I needed time to myself. He said I couldn't stand to be around him. And, sadly, he was right. Neither one of us knows how to communicate with one another rightly. When I apologized later, he denied what he said and told me to get over it, let it go. I was trying to respond accurately to his vulnerable moment and he wasn't having it. I hate that. Then it becomes about me, the oversensitive female who won't let things go. I just wish he would drop this posturing and we could have it out or whatever needs to happen.

This is way too vulnerable.

Also, the thing about good counseling is accurate. One of the best counselors I've had is one who just has one of the best empathetic looks. If you can see and experience true empathy with one, it's a powerful thing.

 

[JoChris]

So, I am confused then, why bring up the oaf at all if it has nothing to do with speaking the truth in love?

I think example of the tactless husband is a good tool to (hopefully) help people evaluate how similar they are in their own interactions with other people.
e.g. thinking through how could the husband have said the truthful thing in a much kinder manner might have the positive flow-on effect of a person thinking before they speak.

 

[Lisa]

Seriously? This is what you have to say? You cant discern the point of the Post? Really doesnt seem like it because of your response, wow...

Anyways I understand what Red is trying to get across, I suffer from this all the time, regardless of it being online or in person. In Spiritual or other matters. Surprising as it sounds, I can come across very brash (that is sarcasm), and even tho many times I am speaking Truth with the intent of Love it comes off badly.

I can definitely see myself in that husband, there have been many times where I am meaning well in what I desire to say but it comes off brash or rude.

I recently had an incident with a kid at Church, he likes my daughter, my daughter likes him, and I really like him. However he has recently graduated High School and he has not made any decisions or movement towards a future at all. I tried to have a man to man talk with him, and I went to extreme lengths to build him up while also telling him that he really needs to start making moves in his life towards a future. He has no job, didnt enroll into college, has no car and had done nothing in the past few months to move him towards any type of future. He has had all the opportunities to do something, he graduated with almost a 4.0, he has plenty of money in the bank to get a car and insurance, there is nothing in his way besides his own lack of motivation.

And when I spoke to him I went out of my way to build him up, I told him how much I love him and am proud of him. I told him that I bless his relationship with my daughter, I told him I loved spending time with him ect ect ect. Yet even with all those positive things and me being very careful in my tone and words, he still took me trying to motivate him hard and ended up crying.

Now I will say that he is a rather soft individual and I dont think that either his mother or his father had ever tried to speak to him about his goals or what he needs to be doing or anything else like that, but the fact is I went into this with the right heart, I said nothing wrong or mean and even tried to do it in the right tone ect, but it still ended up affecting him negatively.

However once my daughter and wife heard about it and how he reacted to it, what I thought was going to happen, didnt. What I figured was going to happen was that they would be mad at me and think I was a jerk ect, but it actually caused both of them to reconsider what I say to them. They both knew I loved him and would never say anything mean or harsh or spiteful to him, so they both understood that he just took everything wrong.

My wife and daughter both stated to me that it made them think of the times that they ended up getting mad at me when I say things and that they probably were over reacting to it, being overly sensitive and that more than likely all I was trying to do was say something that was actually positive or in love to help them or us as a family.

So I totally get why you posted this Red and I think it is definitely something we all need to work on, and I believe we all also ought to think twice about getting our feelings hurt when people say things to us and re evaluate if they are intending to hurt us or actually saying something they truly believe would benefit us, if we were only to take it differently.

Yes, I didn’t understand what the husband had to do with speaking the truth in love...I thought he’d give examples of what it would look like, instead of what it doesn’t look like. I think we can all think of what speaking the truth in love doesn’t look like, but can one pinpoint what it doesn’t look like? Idk...I don’t think we know what love really is.

It’s a long video..I don’t want to spend so much time on a video, what’s wrong with saying so? Am I speaking the truth in love, or am I being rude?

 

[Lisa]

Emphaty is part of love , if you love enough you will put an effort to think it through how your words will affect other person. Caring is part of love, if you don't care you cant love...

Galatians 1:10
For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.
​

Sometimes, if you think too much on how you will sound, you won’t say the words God needs you to say. Many times, God’s words are fighting words.

Exodus‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘Thus says the LORD, “Let My people go, that they may serve Me.”
‭‭​

 

[Lisa]

I think example of the tactless husband is a good tool to (hopefully) help people evaluate how similar they are in their own interactions with other people.
e.g. thinking through how could the husband have said the truthful thing in a much kinder manner might have the positive flow-on effect of a person thinking before they speak.

I would have liked to have seen an example of speaking the truth in love instead of the example given, myself. We all have the examples of people not doing it, and I would be interested on his take on how you tell the truth in love, what he thinks that looks like..but closer to the mark, is what he thinks looks like it, actually be what God is talking about? He missed an opportunity, I think.