“Peace to Prosperity”?

Karlysymon

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I would suggest to you that the reason the Jews presently believe God has gathered them and the actual reasons for their return may be rather different...

The conversation between the Christian from R$E and the Jew from Breaking Israel News that I posted up brings out this difference very clearly.
Red, iam yet to watch it but are you trying to tell me that as momentous as the creation of the state of Israel was/the regathering, that they are simply delusional about the real reasons they are there? Are you trying to tell me, that God has told no one, amongst them, the reason why they would be regathered? Even they don’t agree on this issue. Some sects within Judaism believe it’s the Messiah’s job, not man’s, to regather them when he is present. @Dale, in the Christian Zionism said as much.

Also, as parent, when you want your child to change their nasty behavior, do you do that by giving them what they want or by with holding what they want? I honestly do not see how a regathering is supposed to soften their hearts, unto repentance, at all.

‘Jeshurun grew fat and kicked, filled with food he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock, his Savior”. (Deut 32, 31:14-21, 8:10-14). The OT is filled with texts showing that whenever the nation was prosperous, apostasy/spiritual adultery was close to the heel. And since Israel is trumpeted as this prosperous nation, with the same living standards as those in the West, I ask again, what incentive do they have to “Return to Me, declares the Lord Almighty” (Zechariah1:3)?

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^ What an evil man he is allegedly ;).
I think it’s the first time I have heard him speak!

Those who have kept a watch on Bible prophecy for a number of years will be familiar with Daniel 9:27:-

“27 And he shall confirm* the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”​

*or stenghen

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1396.htm

In the wider context of Daniels 490 year prophecy, there is one “week” or seven years remaining which will be confirmed by a figure counted as having brought peace but who will actually be the Antichrist.

I make no claims about Jared K... but if somebody actually did manage this, and successfully brokered a Middle East peace (perhaps mediated by the U.N. for seven years) please don’t take advantage of his biometric implants to ease security, fraud and payments as Revelation 13 suggests they may have unpleasant side effects.

P.s. I’m sorry to be so plain about it, but as the saying goes “it is what it is!”. Now might be as good a time as ever for people to reconsider the Gospel.

Just so you know, I have a great life, plans for the future and a family growing up around me. I’m not looking to escape from the world right now. I never wanted or expected to see the things I have coming together so quickly.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (KJV)

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.​
You guys are tickling me with the idea that Kushner might be their Moshiach.....hadn't thought of that one! Is he of the Davidic bloodline, by any chance??
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Karlysymon

Red, iam yet to watch it but are you trying to tell me that as momentous as the creation of the state of Israel was/the regathering, that they are simply delusional about the real reasons they are there?
Good question!

How would you interpret this one?

John 5:43 (KJV)

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Rise up my brother. Dispensationalism, zionism, the Hellenistic fantasies of Paul,
Acts 9:26-29

26 And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, and did not believe that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. And he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out.
29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him.
 

justjess

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I think it’s the first time I have heard him speak!

Those who have kept a watch on Bible prophecy for a number of years will be familiar with Daniel 9:27:-

“27 And he shall confirm* the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”​

*or stenghen

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1396.htm

In the wider context of Daniels 490 year prophecy, there is one “week” or seven years remaining which will be confirmed by a figure counted as having brought peace but who will actually be the Antichrist.

I make no claims about Jared K... but if somebody actually did manage this, and successfully brokered a Middle East peace (perhaps mediated by the U.N. for seven years) please don’t take advantage of his biometric implants to ease security, fraud and payments as Revelation 13 suggests they may have unpleasant side effects.

P.s. I’m sorry to be so plain about it, but as the saying goes “it is what it is!”. Now might be as good a time as ever for people to reconsider the Gospel.

Just so you know, I have a great life, plans for the future and a family growing up around me. I’m not looking to escape from the world right now. I never wanted or expected to see the things I have coming together so quickly.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (KJV)

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.​
This isnt a Middle East peace deal. It’s a Middle East real estate deal.

The question of peace has been entirely ignored in favor of “economic development” which lets be real... the ceo of AT&T spoke at the summit. They are using it as an opportunity to expand corporate interests and telling the Palestinians “either accept this or we will never talk about peace”

The website looks like a damn business proposal. This whole thing is farcical and I guess that’s what you get when you appoint a real estate developer with no qualifications other than being Jewish to handle something like this.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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This isnt a Middle East peace deal. It’s a Middle East real estate deal.

The question of peace has been entirely ignored in favor of “economic development” which lets be real... the ceo of AT&T spoke at the summit. They are using it as an opportunity to expand corporate interests and telling the Palestinians “either accept this or we will never talk about peace”

The website looks like a damn business proposal. This whole thing is farcical and I guess that’s what you get when you appoint a real estate developer with no qualifications other than being Jewish to handle something like this.
His Modus Operandi seems to be “Money Talks” - I have no idea how this particular chapter of negations might turn out - just keeping my eye on it...
 

DavidSon

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Trump's Peace Plan Was Designed to Fail- By Jonathan Cooke

"Donald Trump’s supposed “deal of the century”, offering the Palestinians economic bribes in return for political submission, is the endgame of western peace-making, the real goal of which has been failure, not success.

For decades, peace plans have made impossible demands of the Palestinians, forcing them to reject the terms on offer and thereby create a pretext for Israel to seize more of their homeland.

The more they have compromised, the further the diplomatic horizon has moved away – to the point now that the Trump administration expects them to forfeit any hope of statehood or a right to self-determination.

Even Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and architect of the peace plan, cannot really believe the Palestinians will be bought off with their share of the $50 billion inducements he hoped to raise in Bahrain last week.

That was why the Palestinian leadership stayed away.

But Israel’s image managers long ago coined a slogan to obscure a policy of incremental dispossession, masquerading as a peace process: “The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”

It is worth examining what those landmark “missed opportunities” consisted of.

The first was the United Nations’ Partition Plan of late 1947. In Israel’s telling, it was Palestinian intransigence over dividing the land into separate Jewish and Arab states that triggered war, leading to the creation of a Jewish state on the ruins of most of the Palestinians’ homeland.

But the real story is rather different.

The recently formed UN was effectively under the thumb of the imperial powers of Britain, the United States, and the Soviet Union. All three wanted a Jewish state as a dependent ally in the Arab-dominated Middle East.

Fueled by the dying embers of western colonialism, the Partition Plan offered the largest slice of the Palestinian homeland to a minority population of European Jews, whose recent immigration had been effectively sponsored by the British empire.

As native peoples elsewhere were being offered independence, Palestinians were required to hand over 56 percent of their land to these new arrivals. There was no chance such terms would be accepted.

However, as Israeli scholars have noted, the Zionist leadership had no intention of abiding by the UN plan either. David Ben Gurion, Israel’s founding father, called the Jewish state proposed by the UN “tiny”. He warned that it could never accommodate the millions of Jewish immigrants he needed to attract if his new state was not rapidly to become a second Arab state because of higher Palestinian birth rates.

Ben Gurion wanted the Palestinians to reject the plan so that he could use war as a chance to seize 78 percent of Palestine and drive out most of the native population.

For decades, Israel was happy to entrench and, after 1967, expand its hold on historic Palestine.

In fact, it was Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat who made the biggest, unreciprocated concessions to peace. In 1988, he recognized Israel and, later, in the 1993 Olso accords, he accepted the principle of partition on even more dismal terms than the UN’s – a state on 22 percent of historic Palestine.

Even so, the Oslo process stood no serious chance of success after Israel refused to make promised withdrawals from the occupied territories. Finally, in 2000 President Bill Clinton called together Arafat and Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak to a peace summit at Camp David.

Arafat knew Israel was unwilling to make any meaningful compromises and had to be bullied and cajoled into attending. Clinton promised the Palestinian leader he would not be blamed if the talks failed.

Israel ensured they did. According to his own advisers, Barak “blew up” the negotiations, insisting that Israel hold on to occupied East Jerusalem, including the Al Aqsa mosque, and large areas of the West Bank. Washington blamed Arafat anyway, and refashioned Israel’s intransigence as a “generous offer”.

A short time later, in 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Peace Initiative offered Israel normal relations with the Arab world in return for a minimal Palestinian state. Israel and western leaders hurriedly shunted it into the annals of forgotten history.

After Arafat’s death, secret talks through 2008-09 – revealed in the Palestine Papers leak – showed the Palestinians making unprecedented concessions. They included allowing Israel to annex large tracts of East Jerusalem, the Palestinians’ expected capital.

Negotiator Saeb Erekat was recorded saying he had agreed to “the biggest [Jerusalem] in Jewish history” as well as to only a “symbolic number of [Palestinian] refugees’ return [and a] demilitarized state … What more can I give?”

It was a good question. Tzipi Livni, Israel’s negotiator, responded, “I really appreciate it” when she saw how much the Palestinians were conceding. But still, her delegation walked away.

Trump’s own doomed plan follows in the footsteps of such “peace-making”.

In a New York Times commentary last week Danny Danon, Israel’s ambassador to the UN, candidly encapsulated the thrust of this decades-long diplomatic approach. He called on the Palestinians to “surrender”, adding: “Surrender is the recognition that in a contest, staying the course will prove costlier than submission.”

The peace process was always leading to this moment. Trump has simply cut through the evasions and equivocations of the past to reveal where the West’s priorities truly lie.

It is hard to believe that Trump or Kushner ever believed the Palestinians would accept a promise of “money for quiet” in place of a state based on “land for peace”.

Once more, the West is trying to foist on the Palestinians an inequitable peace deal. The one certainty is that they will reject it – it is the only issue on which the Fatah and Hamas leadership are united – again ensuring the Palestinians can be painted as the obstacle to progress.

The Palestinians may have refused this time to stumble into the trap, but they will find themselves the fall guys, whatever happens.

When Trump’s plan crashes, as it will, Washington will have the chance to exploit a supposed Palestinian rejection as a justification for approving annexation by Israel of yet more tranches of occupied territory.

The Palestinians will be left with a shattered homeland. No self-determination, no viable state, no independent economy, just a series of aid-dependent ghettos. And decades of western diplomacy will finally have arrived at its preordained destination."
 

Stephania

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I'm unsure of how the Palestinians can be begging Arab nations for money, while at the same time turning their noses up at $50 billion worth of investment in the Palestinian economy.
Because the 'deal of the century' does not address the occupation, the fact that the Palestinians have not been able to be prosperous on their own because of said occupation, the deal does not have the 2 state solution or any solution for Palestinians to govern themselves, and the money is coming from the Saudi axis who are actually quite against the Palestinian people as a whole for being secular, unlike them. Also, Trump closed the Palestinian embassy in Washington and stopped all US aid to Palestine over the last few years, as well as gave East Jerusalem to the Zionists. I guess Kushner et all think if they starve them enough, they can bribe them and just sweep the illegal occupation, seige of Gaza and illegal settlements underneath the rug. It's an insult to Palestinians. Let alone, not even an Israeli official was at these talks. Kushner, who's family are long time friends of the Netanyahu's, spoke for Israel at the conference. What a bunch if nonsense this whole event was.
 

Stephania

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Yeah, the end of Israel. The Palestinian cause has never been about the Palestinian people. It's been about the Jewish people.

Israel is making peace with Arab nations. Palestine can get on the peace train, or get run over by it. This is their last, best chance at a state.

Senior Saudi Official: Arab World Realizes “Age of War with Israel Over”
Do you really believe that the British implemented head chopping oppressive Wahabbi Sauds truly represent the Arab peoples interests?
 

Thunderian

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Because the 'deal of the century' does not address the occupation
It wasn't supposed to address anything other than the immediate and long term economic well-being of the Palestinian people. Why aren't you aware of this?

the fact that the Palestinians have not been able to be prosperous on their own because of said occupation
There is no occupation. Gaza is run by Hamas, and the PLO rules the West Bank.

As for prosperity, when Israel withdrew every settler and soldier from Gaza, there was a functioning economy. There were businesses, industry, infrastructure. It was, essentially, a turn-key state. As a further sweetener, American Jews spent $14 million buying a hothouse fruit and vegetable operation, which they gifted to the new Jew-free Palestinian state of Gaza. The Palestinians looted and destroyed anything that could have helped them be prosperous, and began importing weapons to attack Israel with.

the deal does not have the 2 state solution or any solution for Palestinians to govern themselves
Again, that was never the purpose of the deal. The only endeavor of the plan was to promote Palestinian prosperity.

Palestinians have had 70 years to figure out how to govern themselves. What do you suppose their problem is?

Also, Trump ... stopped all US aid to Palestine over the last few years
Why is US aid good, but Saudi aid bad? Why should the US send money to a group that hates America and spends the money on salaries to terrorists and villas for their own leaders?

as well as gave East Jerusalem to the Zionists.
Israel won back Jerusalem from Jordan in 1967. Trump had nothing to do with it.

I guess Kushner et all think if they starve them enough
No one is starving in Gaza.

they can bribe them and just sweep the illegal occupation
There is no occupation.

seige of Gaza
There is no siege.

The only thing Israel doesn't permit into Gaza is weapons, and the "siege" wouldn't work if Egypt, which also share a border with Gaza, didn't enforce their own "siege".

and illegal settlements
There are no illegal settlements.

There is not and never has been a nation of "Palestine". Jews living in the West Bank have as much right to live anywhere they want as the Palestinians do. You don't agree that they do?

It's an insult to Palestinians.
The insult to Palestinians is people who act as a mouthpiece for the corrupt and murderous Palestinian leaders who are profiting from the misery of their own people.

Let alone, not even an Israeli official was at these talks.
They weren't invited. Should they have been? Why?
 

Stephania

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Lol. You are really, really uniformed on everything there. I have nothing to say to a person who ignores actual facts that even every former US President from Carter, to Reagan, to Bush, to Clinton to Bush, to Obama to the UN, EU have pointed out about Israel's illegal behavior and settlements and the breaking of the Geneva conventions and international laws continuously. And if your 'Jesus' is down with Jewish leadership doing this and breaking all of even God's laws in the land.. I suggest you try reading the Gospels some time and seeing what he said about these kinds of things to the corrupted Jewish leaders in the land. He certainly wasn't happy about it, and they weren't happy about him not going along with their rebellion. You must read a different Bible.
 

Thunderian

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You are really, really uniformed on everything there.
Really? Tell me about the starvation, then, and the siege. Tell me how Israel occupies Gaza when they don't have a single soldier there. Explain how Israel managed to build a state in 1948 and the Palestinians didn't.
 

Stephania

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First of all, Palestinians aren't just Muslims. They are Christians too. And second of all, that was built many years ago.. before Zionism.. and it is illegal under Jewish law to even step foot on the temple mount since the destruction of the second temple by the Romans.. and there is even a sign by the Israeli rabbinical authority warning Jews that it is forbidden to set foot on temple mount under halacha law until Messiah comes. So what is your problem?
 

Stephania

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Really? Tell me about the starvation, then, and the siege. Tell me how Israel occupies Gaza when they don't have a single soldier there. Explain how Israel managed to build a state in 1948 and the Palestinians didn't.
And what to you mean, not one soldier there. The IDF control their borders, their waterways, and their sky.
And you should be ashamed of yourself for denying the illegal occupation and settlements in the West Bank. That is a bunch of orwellian sheepshit that not even world leaders or Israelis deny
 

Stephania

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Explain how Israel managed to build a state in 1948 and the Palestinians didn't.
Uh.. they already had a state. The UN annexed it and gave half of it to the Zionists, even though Palestinians were already living there. Then, the Zionists continued and continue to this day to take more and more of Palestinian lands illegally under international law with the help of things like 5 billion dollars of US tax payer dollars a year and the 4th largest army in the world, while Palestinians have sticks, stones and firecrackers. And Britain initially gave the Zionists Palestine in 1917. I seem to recall how Americans reacted when Britain tried to take their country. But hey, Palestinians should always just be calm about these things, right?
 
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