“Peace to Prosperity”?

[Red Sky at Morning]

Accounts by older folk of how they came to leave Israel and become refugees.

 

[DavidSon]

Accounts by older folk of how they came to leave Israel and become refugees.

You seriously expect people to watch this? "Palestinian media watch", an Israeli based NGO?

If you guys care so much about Palestinians, why not try and read something from their point of view? I've never once read the Christian Zionists offer a shred of objectivity to the situation.

On one hand of the conflict there's a native population that the UN forced out their homes and has lived in squalor for 70 years. The other side has the most technologically advanced computer and military weaponry known to man, supported by the satanic Rothschilds and US war machine. You're brainwashed to feud with a religion equal to Christianity that actually praises Jesus as a holy prophet, while you suck up to a bunch of bankster-theives that worship the talmud and urinate on the crucifix.

Israel has manufactured an arpatheid state, broken international laws, regularly commits war crimes and ignores human rights. They won't get away with these crimes forever. The conscience of the world will arise someday and bring a just solution to the dispute. Internet hacking, censorship, spying, propaganda. physical and psychological warfare will not defeat the cause of right over wrong.

Palestine will be a free nation.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You seriously expect people to watch this? "Palestinian media watch", an Israeli based NGO?

If you guys care so much about Palestinians, why not try and read something from their point of view? I've never once read the Christian Zionists offer a shred of objectivity to the situation.

On one hand of the conflict there's a native population that the UN forced out their homes and has lived in squalor for 70 years. The other side has the most technologically advanced computer and military weaponry known to man, supported by the satanic Rothschilds and US war machine. You're brainwashed to feud with a religion equal to Christianity that actually praises Jesus as a holy prophet, while you suck up to a bunch of bankster-theives that worship the talmud and urinate on the crucifix.

Israel has manufactured an arpatheid state, broken international laws, regularly commits war crimes and ignores human rights. They won't get away with these crimes forever. The conscience of the world will arise someday and bring a just solution to the dispute. Internet hacking, censorship, spying, propaganda. physical and psychological warfare will not defeat the cause of right over wrong.

Palestine will be a free nation.

I posted it up because it was simply the words of some of the early refugees, and gives some insight into why and how these particular individuals came to leave Israel. The last interview is particularly interesting.

P.s. you really don’t have to watch their interviews if you don’t want to!

 

[Thunderian]

Palestine will be a free nation.

If they want a state, why have they rejected so many opportunities to have one?

 

[DavidSon]

... A lot of these economic migrants are the forebears of what today are known as the Palestinians, but a hundred years ago they were Syrian, Egyptian, Lebanese, and so on. Not that they aren't natives of the land now, but they don't have nearly as deep roots as people like you would like everyone to believe, and they certainly don't have more claim to the land than the Jews do...

Not true. Links have already been given that explain the ethno-geographic identity of the Palestinians. The same families dwelt there for hundreds and hundreds of years, that's a fact. Judeans lived (peacefully) there as well but were always an extreme minority.

Your tale about the conflicts since 1948 is a false narrative. In 1967 Israel broke the territorial agreements mandated by the UN, occupying part of Sinai, Palestinian land, and the Golan. That's where things are at today. Israel, the US, Canada and Britain support lawlessness. They deny the majority of world opinion that believes Palestine should be granted nationhood and that the 1948 boundaries should be respected. There is no other solution.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You seriously expect people to watch this? "Palestinian media watch", an Israeli based NGO?

If you guys care so much about Palestinians, why not try and read something from their point of view? I've never once read the Christian Zionists offer a shred of objectivity to the situation.

On one hand of the conflict there's a native population that the UN forced out their homes and has lived in squalor for 70 years. The other side has the most technologically advanced computer and military weaponry known to man, supported by the satanic Rothschilds and US war machine. You're brainwashed to feud with a religion equal to Christianity that actually praises Jesus as a holy prophet, while you suck up to a bunch of bankster-theives that worship the talmud and urinate on the crucifix.

Israel has manufactured an arpatheid state, broken international laws, regularly commits war crimes and ignores human rights. They won't get away with these crimes forever. The conscience of the world will arise someday and bring a just solution to the dispute. Internet hacking, censorship, spying, propaganda. physical and psychological warfare will not defeat the cause of right over wrong.

Palestine will be a free nation.

Would I be right in thinking that because “Christian Zionists” believe that God has a hand in bringing back the Jews (as a people) back to Israel, you think we automatically approve of their spiritual position on Jesus or their policing or military policies?

I was once a school governor and was told that I needed to be a “critical friend” to the school. This meant that I should support the schools right to exist, have in mind what a good school ought to be and not give up telling the staff how things should be.

This conversation between a Jew and a Christian regarding the prophetic future of Israel demonstrated that relationship really well. I hope it might help shed some light on the issue which seems to be the most misunderstood one on this forum.

 

[DavidSon]

If they want a state, why have they rejected so many opportunities to have one?

I'm not Palestinian so I can't speak for them. It's a legitimate question.

My opinion is that they and the Arab nations initially rejected the UN decision to force migration in the region, and were willing to fight to the death to oppose zionism.

In 1967 Israel (with the help of the US) preemptively strikes out, seizing Palestine and the lands mentioned. They continued to occupy the West Bank and Gaza while slowly colonizing the land. Basically they won the war, and Palestinians are 100% now at their and the West's mercy.

This is what I mean by false narrative. The war against Israel is long over. They play the victim card like the US claiming to be under attack, when they are the terrorists. Most of their neighbors accept Israel as a state, and as you posted previously are interested in doing business. Even Hamas in the 2010's softened their stance against the Jewish state.

If you actually read any of the links besides your own you'd understand the peace negotiations for 30 years have been a sham. Israel had no intention of abiding by the treaties and accords they signed. There was no possibility of a peace agreement. With pretend scientific discoveries they now feel they have a reason to occupy East Jerusalem. There was a plan in place since the 1970's to take all the land, and we're seeing the results today.

 

[DavidSon]

Would I be right in thinking that because “Christian Zionists” believe that God has a hand in bringing back the Jews (as a people) back to Israel, you think we automatically approve of their spiritual position on Jesus or their policing or military policies?

I was once a school governor and was told that I needed to be a “critical friend” to the school. This meant that I should support the schools right to exist, have in mind what a good school ought to be and not give up telling the staff how things should be.

This conversation between a Jew and a Christian regarding the prophetic future of Israel demonstrated that relationship really well. I hope it might help shed some light on the issue which seems to be the most misunderstood one on this forum.

I'm not sure what to think. You've expressed a natural affection for Israel, that's fine. We're entrenched in our beliefs but not once have I ever heard from you or certain individuals so much as, "hey, the racist and hurtful policies are not cool" or... "the people who praise YHWH need to rise up and be better." In a forum about politics and current events people are ignoring great injustice. It's not about religions, it's about human decency and world law. I mean, the Israeli military are intentionally sniping at peaceful protesters across a fence- not to kill... but to maim! Creating a population of young male amputees has to be one of the most devious acts imaginable, yet not a peep from the MSM (or people I expect to hear something from about it).

The Palestinians as a group are in trouble. I don't deny other Arabs and especially two-faced, devilish Saudis have turned their backs on them at different times. But some of the other accusations are lies. For example Hamas are elected representatives, just like Assad's government or Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood. I don't believe for a second the claims from the troika of tyranny that they're terrorists. It's only a way to resist negotiations that 90% of UN members are calling for.

Back on topic: I will watch the video you recommend but RSM I seriously hope you take some minutes to investigate why we reject the little anti-christ Kushner's offer to create a "New Palestine," and why so many of us are revolted at the offer of filthy $$$ in place of Palestinian nationhood.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I'm not sure what to think. You've expressed a natural affection for Israel, that's fine. We're entrenched in our beliefs but not once have I ever heard from you or certain individuals so much as, "hey, the racist and hurtful policies are not cool" or... "the people who praise YHWH need to rise up and be better." In a forum about politics and current events people are ignoring great injustice. It's not about religions, it's about human decency and world law. I mean, the Israeli military are intentionally sniping at peaceful protesters across a fence- not to kill... but to maim! Creating a population of young male amputees has to be one of the most devious acts imaginable, yet not a peep from the MSM (or people I expect to hear something from about it).

The Palestinians as a group are in trouble. I don't deny other Arabs and especially two-faced, devilish Saudis have turned their backs on them at different times. But some of the other accusations are lies. For example Hamas are elected representatives, just like Assad's government or Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood. I don't believe for a second the claims from the troika of tyranny that they're terrorists. It's only a way to resist negotiations that 90% of UN members are calling for.

Back on topic: I will watch the video you recommend but RSM I seriously hope you take some minutes to investigate why we reject the little anti-christ Kushner's offer to create a "New Palestine," and why so many of us are revolted at the offer of filthy $$$ in place of Palestinian nationhood.

Often a nuanced voice is lost in the shouting, and nothing stops people hearing more than feeling angry and upset. I think the conversation between the two reveals a lot, and may challenge some misconceptions.

As to a natural affection for Israel, I have been studying the book of Acts 6 and 7 and feeling a grief that the Jews of the day missed the Gospel through love of religion and tradition. Most still do.

 

[Karlysymon]

Would I be right in thinking that because “Christian Zionists” believe that God has a hand in bringing back the Jews (as a people) back to Israel,

The issue of Jews in the diaspora is never clarified. Those who have chosen to fight for and defend the state of Israel while staying put in the West. As we are told, they were to be regathered so that at the end of time, they can be converted. Are we talking only the 6/7million (excluding Arab population) here or even those in the diaspora?

If one argues that even those in the diaspora will eventually turn to Christ even if they don’t make the move, where then does that leave the argument or belief that “they have to be regathered as a pre-requisite for their conversion”? If God can soften the hearts of those who have chosen not to make Aliyah, was that really impossible pre-1948, that He had to give them a state inorder to soften their hearts?

you think we automatically approve of....their policing or military policies?

It may not be your position but some Christian Zionists argue that all Israel’s trumpeted success, militarily or otherwise are evidence of God’s backing. Even when those successes require the most brutal methods.

Though it may sound controversial, 9/11 was as intergral to Christian Zionism (eschatology) as it is overlooked because how else is the Greater Israel project going to happen without such false-flags? Is God going to quietly tell everyone in the vicinity of Israel to just pack up and leave so that His children can have their biblical borders restored without any bloodshed? No. Thanks to 9/11, Sovereignty is now a given. And the legacy of 9/11 alone, on the world, as devastating as it has been couldn’t possibly have been the means God is using to grant His chosen sovereignty and also to make it the strongest state in the region.

Ps. The vid sounds interesting, will watch when I have the time.

 

[manama]

I've been asking for a few years, but you always play games like this.

As I said in this very thread, Jews were living in Palestine before it was called Palestine. In the 1800's, Jews from the diaspora began to trickle back to their homeland, joining the Jews who have always lived there. Returning Jews bought land from those who owned land there, and they reclaimed waste land that no one owned or wanted. They didn't push any of the local Arabs off their land. They were outnumbered, for one thing, and they didn't need to, because there was plenty of land available. The land itself was governed by the Ottoman empire until about the end of the first world war, when the British took over.

As increased immigration by Jews began to generate more and more economic activity, Arabs began to pour in from surrounding Middle Eastern countries to take advantage of better conditions than at home. A lot of these economic migrants are the forebears of what today are known as the Palestinians, but a hundred years ago they were Syrian, Egyptian, Lebanese, and so on. Not that they aren't natives of the land now, but they don't have nearly as deep roots as people like you would like everyone to believe, and they certainly don't have more claim to the land than the Jews do.

In 1948, after the British administration of the land ended, and after Palestinian Arabs refused to form a country with the Palestinian Jews, the UN offered a partition plan for Palestine, with the land divided into a Jewish nation and a Palestinian one. The Jews said they would take what they could get, but the Arabs said nuts to that, and that's basically where we are today. There was never a nation or even a loose confederation of people called Palestine, but there could have been as far back as 1948, had they acted like the Jews and formed a nation, instead of blowing themselves and others up for the last 70 years, in protest of the Jewish state.

No no thunderian, we want the factual historic sources that you were claiming to have. .

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Karlysymon - I think that there is much wisdom to be gained from reading Isaiah 42, 43 and 44 - I won’t post them up as nobody would read my post!

What is interesting here is that on the one hand, God is angry with the idolatrous stiff-necked Jews, and makes it clear that times of trouble for them will come. On the other hand, you sense his warm heart and the fullness into which he wants to bring them. We are not yet at that fullness, and this side of the Millennial reign of Jesus, it isn’t going to happen.

This is why ordinary political Zionism is such folly - man can not achieve by his own means (be it red heifers or third temples) the plans of God. He is sovereign and will do His will in the nations. In many ways, there is a spiritual lesson in the incident with Elijah and the alter. Without God’s intervention, nothing is going to happen!



As for the times we live in, I tend to keep my eyes and my mind open to what might happen, as I’m sure there will both surprises and deceptions in store. One of my favourite, mysterious verses of the Bible is Habakkuk 1:5:-

“Look among the nations and watch—​

Be utterly astounded!​

For I will work a work in your days​

Which you would not believe, though it were told you.”​

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

PALESTINIANS ON PILGRIMAGE ROAD INAUGURATION: ‘ISRAEL FALSIFYING HISTORY’
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

Jordan also condemns opening of ‘Pilgrimage Road.’

Palestinians and Jordan on Sunday strongly condemned the inauguration of “Pilgrimage Road” in the City of David, near the Old City of Jerusalem, calling it a “falsification of history” and “reversal of the facts.”

They also denounced the participation of US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman and US presidential envoy Jason Greenblatt in the ceremony, saying it was an “act of US hostility against the Palestinians.”

Palestinian Authority “governor” of Jerusalem Adnan Gheith said that the participation of the US officials in the ceremony reflects the US administration’s “hostility” against the Palestinians and “denial of Palestinians’ national rights.”

He also accused the US administration of supporting the “colonial settler project spearheaded by the extremist Right in the state of occupation.”

Ghieth, claimed that the Israeli archeological excavations pose a “direct threat to Al-Aqsa Mosque and its surroundings.” He warned that the excavations could lead to the collapse of parts of the mosque.

The PA Foreign Ministry in Ramallah denounced Friedman and Greenblatt as “false witnesses” and said they “volunteered to support the falsification of history and the Judaization of Jerusalem.”

The ministry accused Israel of working to change the identity of Jerusalem and its historical and legal reality.”

Fakhri Abu Diab, an east Jerusalem activist from Silwan, called on the international community to “preserve the Palestinian heritage.” He was quoted by the PA’s official news agency Wafa as saying that US President Donald Trump’s plan for peace in the Middle East, also known as the Deal of the Century, “was being implemented underground.”

Abu Diab said that the archeological excavations have already caused damage to several houses and a mosque in Silwan.

The agency quoted Palestinian engineer and academic Jamal Amro as saying that the inauguration ceremony was a “new crime” against the Palestinians because it “consolidates the concept that Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem is entirely above the ground and under it.”

According to Amro, the opening the “Pilgrimage Road” Iis an attempt to “impose the Israeli narrative, falsify history and impose its sovereignty on the ground by force.”

Jordan also condemned the opening of the “Pilgrimage Road” and warned that “such illegal and irresponsible actions increase tension” in the region.

The Jordanian Foreign Ministry said that the kingdom rejects “all Israeli attempts to change the identity and character of the Old City of Jerusalem, especially the Noble Sanctuary (Temple Mount) and adjacent sites.”

The ministry said that “these Israeli practices constitute a flagrant violation of international law and UN resolutions calling for a cessation of all illegal Israeli excavations in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Source

 

[Karlysymon]

@Karlysymon - I think that there is much wisdom to be gained from reading Isaiah 42, 43 and 44 - I won’t post them up as nobody would read my post!

What is interesting here is that on the one hand, God is angry with the idolatrous stiff-necked Jews, and makes it clear that times of trouble for them will come. On the other hand, you sense his warm heart and the fullness into which he wants to bring them. We are not yet at that fullness, and this side of the Millennial reign of Jesus, it isn’t going to happen.

This is why ordinary political Zionism is such folly - man can not achieve by his own means (be it red heifers or third temples) the plans of God. He is sovereign and will do His will in the nations. In many ways, there is a spiritual lesson in the incident with Elijah and the alter. Without God’s intervention, nothing is going to happen!

View attachment 23567

As for the times we live in, I tend to keep my eyes and my mind open to what might happen, as I’m sure there will both surprises and deceptions in store. One of my favourite, mysterious verses of the Bible is Habakkuk 1:5:-

“Look among the nations and watch—​

Be utterly astounded!​

For I will work a work in your days​

Which you would not believe, though it were told you.”​

Most non-Christian Zionists believe that God still loves them, just as anyone else but that they lost their privilege/favor as a nation on the whole. Problem is, they do not want to acknowledge the loss and still think they are destined to be the bearers of light to the world. Whatever that light is:

David Ben-Gurion, the “father of the nation”, was a firm believer in the ‘mission’ [of Greater Israel], declaring: “I believe in our moral and intellectual superiority; and in our capacity to serve as a model for the redemption of the human race”. At the 2003 ‘Jerusalem Summit’, whose participants comprised three acting Israeli ministers (and included Netanyahu, and Richard Perle from the USG), the group solemnly professed: “We believe that one of the objectives of Israel’s divinely-inspired rebirth, is to make it the center of the new unity of the nations, which will lead to an era of peace and prosperity, as foretold by the Prophets”.

I hope you do not miss the anomaly of Richard Perle (think PNAC/9/11/Iraq war). Iam not sure if he is a Christian or observant of Judaism but I HIGHLY doubt. More so a secularist just as Ben Gurion was, at least thats what I read. I hope you can also see the oddity of these secular men who see themselves as tasked with a mission that is meant to redeem the rest of mankind. Again, whatever that redemption means…

And they aren’t the only ones. If you visit the website of the temple authority
https://www.temp-auth.org.il

You’ll find the same statements “bearers of the light to the world”. Ofcourse, that task will only get underway after sovereignty is achieved and possibly when the temple is erected and on the road to that Iran has to fall. It is a given, whether it happens this year, in 5 or 10yrs, its not a question of if but when. So, inorder for Israel to be the blessing, from God to the world (as they believe, ofcourse not everyone. We have to exclude some on the Left, atheists etc), the rest of the world has had to be brought to its knees and dragged through humiliation. The war with Iran will blight the future prospects of the present generation just as the Iraq and Afghan wars did. Again, I wonder, where do the statements above leave the whole theology of “God regathered the Jews for…” ?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Most non-Christian Zionists believe that God still loves them, just as anyone else but that they lost their privilege/favor as a nation on the whole. Problem is, they do not want to acknowledge the loss and still think they are destined to be the bearers of light to the world. Whatever that light is:

David Ben-Gurion, the “father of the nation”, was a firm believer in the ‘mission’ [of Greater Israel], declaring: “I believe in our moral and intellectual superiority; and in our capacity to serve as a model for the redemption of the human race”. At the 2003 ‘Jerusalem Summit’, whose participants comprised three acting Israeli ministers (and included Netanyahu, and Richard Perle from the USG), the group solemnly professed: “We believe that one of the objectives of Israel’s divinely-inspired rebirth, is to make it the center of the new unity of the nations, which will lead to an era of peace and prosperity, as foretold by the Prophets”.

I hope you do not miss the anomaly of Richard Perle (think PNAC/9/11/Iraq war). Iam not sure if he is a Christian or observant of Judaism but I HIGHLY doubt. More so a secularist just as Ben Gurion was, at least thats what I read. I hope you can also see the oddity of these secular men who see themselves as tasked with a mission that is meant to redeem the rest of mankind. Again, whatever that redemption means…

And they aren’t the only ones. If you visit the website of the temple authority
https://www.temp-auth.org.il

You’ll find the same statements “bearers of the light to the world”. Ofcourse, that task will only get underway after sovereignty is achieved and possibly when the temple is erected and on the road to that Iran has to fall. It is a given, whether it happens this year, in 5 or 10yrs, its not a question of if but when. So, inorder for Israel to be the blessing, from God to the world (as they believe, ofcourse not everyone. We have to exclude some on the Left, atheists etc), the rest of the world has had to be brought to its knees and dragged through humiliation. The war with Iran will blight the future prospects of the present generation just as the Iraq and Afghan wars did. Again, I wonder, where do the statements above leave the whole theology of “God regathered the Jews for…” ?

I would suggest to you that the reason the Jews presently believe God has gathered them and the actual reasons for their return may be rather different...

The conversation between the Christian from R$E and the Jew from Breaking Israel News that I posted up brings out this difference very clearly.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Jared Kushner describes the outcome of the economic summit.

 

[free2018]

^ What an evil man he is allegedly .

 

[DavidSon]

Would I be right in thinking that because “Christian Zionists” believe that God has a hand in bringing back the Jews (as a people) back to Israel, you think we automatically approve of their spiritual position on Jesus or their policing or military policies?

I was once a school governor and was told that I needed to be a “critical friend” to the school. This meant that I should support the schools right to exist, have in mind what a good school ought to be and not give up telling the staff how things should be.

This conversation between a Jew and a Christian regarding the prophetic future of Israel demonstrated that relationship really well. I hope it might help shed some light on the issue which seems to be the most misunderstood one on this forum.

Yeah I can't take one minute of this nonsense. I could care less about the delusional comments of Adam Eliyahu Borowitz, a propagandist living in occupied Syrian territory. Same thing for a lost, end- times evangelical. This is way off the topic of a corrupt "peace" plan hatched up by some of the darkest forces in the world.

Rise up my brother. Dispensationalism, zionism, the Hellenistic fantasies of Paul, or warped out Luther have 0 to do with Jesus Christ and the Way. We need more reasoning about the words of Jesus, to give thanks and praise to God. Righteousness and Judgement are the foundations of His throne.

If we're going off topic into religion then let's listen to an actual authority on Jewish nationhood:

"Up until the mid-20th century, opposition to Zionism, carried out through advocacy organizations like Agudath Israel, was the dominant position in the orthodox Jewish world." JVP

 

[DavidSon]

Jared Kushner describes the outcome of the economic summit.

Could you explain why you are posting a video of Kushner speaking?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Could you explain why you are posting a video of Kushner speaking?

I think it’s the first time I have heard him speak!

Those who have kept a watch on Bible prophecy for a number of years will be familiar with Daniel 9:27:-

“27 And he shall confirm* the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”​

*or stenghen

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1396.htm

In the wider context of Daniels 490 year prophecy, there is one “week” or seven years remaining which will be confirmed by a figure counted as having brought peace but who will actually be the Antichrist.

I make no claims about Jared K... but if somebody actually did manage this, and successfully brokered a Middle East peace (perhaps mediated by the U.N. for seven years) please don’t take advantage of his biometric implants to ease security, fraud and payments as Revelation 13 suggests they may have unpleasant side effects.

P.s. I’m sorry to be so plain about it, but as the saying goes “it is what it is!”. Now might be as good a time as ever for people to reconsider the Gospel.

Just so you know, I have a great life, plans for the future and a family growing up around me. I’m not looking to escape from the world right now. I never wanted or expected to see the things I have coming together so quickly.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (KJV)

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.​