“Peace to Prosperity”?

Thunderian

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Muslims lived in Spain for ages, does that mean we can go back, conquer it, call it our land and then kick everyone that isn't a Muslim out?
If the Jews kicked all the non-Jews out of Israel, how did Israel end up with a 2 million Arabs as citizens?
 

manama

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If the Jews kicked all the non-Jews out of Israel, how did Israel end up with a 2 million Arabs as citizens?
Because Arab is an ethnicity, Judaism is a religion. And I never said they kicked out all non-jews from Israel. You need to stop making the same arguments you were making back in 2017, its getting boring now.
 

Thunderian

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And I never said they kicked out all non-jews from Israel.
You made this comparison of Jews returning to Palestine with Muslims returning to Spain.

So what? Muslims lived in Spain for ages, does that mean we can go back, conquer it, call it our land and then kick everyone that isn't a Muslim out?
What was it supposed to mean, except that you think the Jews kicked everyone who wasn't a Jew out of Palestine when they "conquered" it? Lots of people make ignorant statements like that, so there's no shame in admitting it. But don't try and cover it up by pretending you didn't imply it in the first place. :)
 

manama

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You made this comparison of Jews returning to Palestine with Muslims returning to Spain.
uh tf are you smoking? Muslims going to Spain is a comparison of how just because you owned a land ages ago doesn't mean you can go back to it whenever.

Christians kicked all Muslims from Spain and caused mass scale genocide. I just didn't mention it because its as irrelevant to this discussion as Christianity is in general to the world.


What was it supposed to mean, except that you think the Jews kicked everyone who wasn't a Jew out of Palestine when they "conquered" it? Lots of people make ignorant statements like that, so there's no shame in admitting it. But don't try and cover it up by pretending you didn't imply it in the first place. :)
They kicked out Palestinians, didn't they?
 

Lisa

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Also the whole argument of "there was no place called Palestine" is so dumb, that everyone still parroting it needs to be put down.
Why do people who believe there was no place called Palestine need to be put down?
 

Lisa

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Because you won't be in it. Atleast thunderian got bills to pay so its understandable.
I’d like to be alive and I don’t see where my being gone is going to make the world a better place. You’re gonna give @Thunderian a pass because he’s got bills to pay? Ok..lol!
 

Red Sky at Morning

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NEW DISCOVERY IN JERUSALEM'S CITY OF DAVID: 2,000-YEAR-OLD PILGRIMAGE ROAD

In 2004, a sewage pipe burst in the middle of the neighborhood of Silwan in southeast Jerusalem. The municipality sent in a crew of construction workers to fix the leak, and as is the case in Jerusalem and especially in neighborhoods adjacent to the Old City, they were accompanied by a team of archeologists.

As the repairs progressed, the construction workers stumbled upon some long and wide stairs a few dozen meters from where the Shiloah – the ancient pool Jewish pilgrims would dip in before beginning the religious ascent to the Temple, until its destruction in 70 CE – was believed to have once stood. The steps were just like the ones that lead to the Hulda Gates, a set of now blocked entrances along the Temple Mount’s Southern Wall.

Discovery of the Shiloah Pool led to another monumental find – the central water drainage channel that had served ancient Jerusalem. This channel is the tunnel that visitors to the City of David – known as Ir David – get to walk through today, starting at the bottom of the Shiloah and emerging about 45 minutes later next to the Western Wall.

As is often the case with archeology, though, the first discovery or two are just the beginning. That is how a few weeks ago I found myself on an exclusive tour of an ancient road dug out beneath the village of Silwan and above the now well-known water channel (also the place where Jewish rebels made a final stand against the Roman invaders).

Continues:-

https://m.jpost.com/Magazine/Ascending-a-2000-year-old-Pilgrimage-Road-593766
 

Thunderian

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... the Palestinians are perhaps the only national independence movement in the modern era that has ever rejected a genuine offer of internationally recognized statehood, even if it falls short of all the territory the movement had sought.​
The best example is Israel itself, which jumped at a 1947 United Nations proposal for a Jewish state, even though it was noncontiguous and excluded Jerusalem and much of its present territory. The Arab states rejected the proposal, which would have also created a parallel Arab country.​
India and Pakistan didn’t reject independence because major territorial claims were left unaddressed. Ireland accepted independence without the island’s six northern counties. Morocco didn’t refuse statehood because Spain retained land on its northern coast.​
While there have been hundreds of national independence movements in modern times, few are fortunate enough to receive an offer of fully recognized sovereign statehood. Including 1947, the Palestinians have received four. From Tibet to Kurdistan, such opportunities remain a dream.​
 

manama

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... the Palestinians are perhaps the only national independence movement in the modern era that has ever rejected a genuine offer of internationally recognized statehood, even if it falls short of all the territory the movement had sought.​


The best example is Israel itself, which jumped at a 1947 United Nations proposal for a Jewish state, even though it was noncontiguous and excluded Jerusalem and much of its present territory. The Arab states rejected the proposal, which would have also created a parallel Arab country.​


India and Pakistan didn’t reject independence because major territorial claims were left unaddressed. Ireland accepted independence without the island’s six northern counties. Morocco didn’t refuse statehood because Spain retained land on its northern coast.​


While there have been hundreds of national independence movements in modern times, few are fortunate enough to receive an offer of fully recognized sovereign statehood. Including 1947, the Palestinians have received four. From Tibet to Kurdistan, such opportunities remain a dream.​
India and Pakistan didn't reject independence because the land belonged to both of them. No one from the outside was coming in a taking a claim, rather the outsiders were going back.

Israel took over Palestinians and took over their land. Ofcourse Palestine will refuse because they are ones losing their land while Israelis were getting it for free. Any sane person would fight against that just like how India did back in 1857.
 

manama

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I asked you first. Please give your version of how the Jews showed up in Palestine one day and kicked out all the Palestinians.
We have been saying it in replies to you since 2017. Why don't you give your "factual accounts"?
 

Thunderian

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We have been saying it in replies to you since 2017. Why don't you give your "factual accounts"?
I've been asking for a few years, but you always play games like this.

As I said in this very thread, Jews were living in Palestine before it was called Palestine. In the 1800's, Jews from the diaspora began to trickle back to their homeland, joining the Jews who have always lived there. Returning Jews bought land from those who owned land there, and they reclaimed waste land that no one owned or wanted. They didn't push any of the local Arabs off their land. They were outnumbered, for one thing, and they didn't need to, because there was plenty of land available. The land itself was governed by the Ottoman empire until about the end of the first world war, when the British took over.

As increased immigration by Jews began to generate more and more economic activity, Arabs began to pour in from surrounding Middle Eastern countries to take advantage of better conditions than at home. A lot of these economic migrants are the forebears of what today are known as the Palestinians, but a hundred years ago they were Syrian, Egyptian, Lebanese, and so on. Not that they aren't natives of the land now, but they don't have nearly as deep roots as people like you would like everyone to believe, and they certainly don't have more claim to the land than the Jews do.

In 1948, after the British administration of the land ended, and after Palestinian Arabs refused to form a country with the Palestinian Jews, the UN offered a partition plan for Palestine, with the land divided into a Jewish nation and a Palestinian one. The Jews said they would take what they could get, but the Arabs said nuts to that, and that's basically where we are today. There was never a nation or even a loose confederation of people called Palestine, but there could have been as far back as 1948, had they acted like the Jews and formed a nation, instead of blowing themselves and others up for the last 70 years, in protest of the Jewish state.
 
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