“Peace to Prosperity”?

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,365
Still doesn’t answer the question of why Jews would want to go to either place. I’m sure lots of people would go just to see such historic places, but I don’t think that’s a hill anyone’s willing to die on.
I was just wondering how far that peace treaty goes.
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,237
The US President, Donald Trump, addressed the UN General Assembly on Tuesday and voiced optimism that more peace agreements in the Middle East are possible. As the General Debate is taking place mostly virtually this year due to COVID-19, The President delivered his speech from the White House.

The first part of Trump’s speech was mostly focused on the pandemic, and he sharply criticized China for its response to the virus.

The President addressed the recent agreements that the White House brokered, such as the economic agreement between Serbia and Kosovo, and the historic Abraham Accords between Israel, the United Arab Emirates, and Bahrain. Trump said that there are “many other Middle Eastern countries to come.”

“They are coming fast, and they know it's great for them, and it's great for the world,” he continued. “These groundbreaking peace deals are the dawn of the new middle East... we intend to deliver more peace agreements shortly, and I have never been more optimistic for the future of the region. There is no blood in the sand. Those days are hopefully over.”

 






Axl888

Established
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
298
The point was that if they are gonna get flight to and from and be able to visit each other’s countries ..will Jews be allowed into those cities too?
The saudi govt may have peace agreement with israel but the majority of the arabs are still hostile against israelis so its a very very bad idea for israelis to visit those “holy places”
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,237
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Thursday implied that Jerusalem belongs to Turkey, referring to the Ottoman Empire’s control over the city for much of the modern era.

“In this city that we had to leave in tears during the First World War, it is still possible to come across traces of the Ottoman resistance. So Jerusalem is our city, a city from us,” he told Turkish lawmakers during a major policy speech in Ankara. “Our first qibla [direction of prayer in Islam] al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem are the symbolic mosques of our faith. In addition, this city is home to the holy places of Christianity and Judaism.”

“Another crisis that our country and our nation carefully follow is the oppression of Israel against the Palestinians and the indifferent practices that disregard the privacy of Jerusalem,” he said toward the end of his address.

“The issue of Jerusalem is not an ordinary geopolitical problem for us. First of all, the current physical appearance of the Old City, which is the heart of Jerusalem, was built by Suleiman the Magnificent, with its walls, bazaar, and many buildings. Our ancestors showed their respect for centuries by keeping this city in high esteem.”


 






Last edited:

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,237
BREAKING NEWS OUT OF JERUSALEM: The Israeli Cabinet has just voted unanimously to adopt the Abraham Accords, which now leaves only a Knesset vote this Thursday. The agreement not only stipulates the need for a negotiated settlement between Israel and the Palestinians (a.k.a. dividing the land), but it also promotes a blasphemous, interfaith view of God as the Father of false religions.

The “Treaty of Peace, Diplomatic Relations and Full Normalization Between the United Arab Emirates and The State of Israel” commits its signatories to “continuing their efforts to achieve a just, comprehensive, realistic and enduring solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict” and to continue “working together to realize a negotiated solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that meets the legitimate needs and aspirations of both peoples, and to advance comprehensive Middle East peace, stability and prosperity.”
The UAE-Israel treaty states that the signatories are “recognizing that the Arab and Jewish peoples are descendants of a common ancestor, Abraham, and inspired, in that spirit, to foster in the Middle East a reality in which Muslims, Jews, Christians and peoples of all faiths, denominations, beliefs and nationalities live in, and are committed to, a spirit of coexistence, mutual understanding and mutual respect.” (Source)
It is also now being reported that a number of key Arab and European countries are pressuring the Palestinian Authority to enter into direct negotiations with Israel—a sea change in the international position given that their historic posture has been built around international and not direct negotiations. Direct negotiations imply movement toward adopting the Vision for Peace (“Deal of the Century”) in full. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, and Jordan are among the Middle Eastern countries pushing direct talks, but the three main European powers have also jumped on board (France, Germany, and Britain). There is now a growing sense of inevitability that the Trump-Kushner deal is indeed going to be the framework that establishes a Palestinian state and enables Israel to annex approximately 30% of Judea and Samaria (the West Bank).

There are also growing rumors Saudi Arabia may soon publicly announce acquiescence to the Abraham Accords, perhaps even before U.S. elections next month. Saudi Arabia is the religious center of both branches of Islam, housing both Mecca and Medina. It is also the wealthiest Gulf state and the third wealthiest Muslim nation overall. If it were to formally make peace with Israel, the current chants of “peace and security” would be magnified a hundredfold.

Despite what some are saying, this deal is not in Israel's interest. It is entrapping the country in such a way that the Israelis will be unable (and unwilling) to recapture their God-given land or the full city of Jerusalem unless God Himself intervenes (and He will). Before the Abraham Accords Israel had nothing to lose. They were marching toward annexation of even more of their primordial homeland despite Palestinian objections, but now with the accord about to be confirmed, “peace” is actually the vehicle through which the division of the land will happen. Israel dare not take any more land lest her newfound friends annul the accord. And the more countries that join, the harder it will be for Israel to back out.

It's like a tiger cub. It looks cute and everyone wants one. But eventually the cub grows into a tiger and devours you. The Vision for Peace and subsequent Abraham Accords appeared superficially advantageous to Israel from the world's perspective. Objections to the deal by Israel's historic enemies made the Israelis that much more comfortable with it. What deal could possibly be better than this one?—so they thought. But this deal is spiraling and snowballing into a deal they can no longer refuse—a deal that will be impossible to back out of with the full weight of the world behind it.

 






Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,308
Despite what some are saying, this deal is not in Israel's interest. It is entrapping the country in such a way that the Israelis will be unable (and unwilling) to recapture their God-given land or the full city of Jerusalem unless God Himself intervenes (and He will).
None of these deals matter in the long term. Israel will have to wait until the Messiah returns before they fully possess their land, and there will be no division of it then.
 






Stucky

Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
591
a.k.a. dividing the land
I hear a lot about 'dividing the land' and how any one who divides the land will be under God's curse, especially from Zionist 'Christians' and yet, bizarrely, it was Zionists who divided the land when they declared borders in part of historic Palestine. So according to Zionist 'Christians' (even though they seem not to know it) Zionism itself is under God's curse as are the 'Christians' who have yoked themselves to what, according to Zionist 'Christians', are an 'accursed brood'.

I find this kind of 'spiritual' schizophrenia fascinating.
 






Last edited:

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,237
I hear a lot about 'dividing the land' and how any one who divides the land will be under God's curse, especially from Zionist 'Christians' and yet, bizarrely, it was Zionists who divided the land when they declared borders in part of historic Palestine. So according to Zionist 'Christians' Zionism itself is under God's curse as are the 'Christians' who have yoked themselves to what, according to Zionist 'Christians', are an 'accursed brood'.

I find this kind of 'spiritual' schizophrenia fascinating.
I think a lot of people miss the bigger picture.

Jewish Zionist seem to be under the impression that they are in the right track and that their Messiah will come, they will inherit the fullness of the land promised to Abraham and happily ever after will ensue.

From a perspective that is labelled Christian “Zionist”, a person may take the view that God has had a hand in gathering back His stiff-necked people to their homeland according to the prophecies, but this side of the Great Tribulation (which will redraw the borders on the whole world), they will not come into their “undivided” land.

What I would say is that if God has given Israel a certain amount of land back (of the land that is within His gift) they are not at liberty to use it as a bargaining chip as the land does not “belong” to the Jews and more than my son’s bedroom “belongs” to him. It belongs through my gift alone.

I understand this is hard to grasp - just for comparison, is there any other country specifically spoken of in the Bible that has been given by God in perpetuity to anyone?
 






Stucky

Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
591
What I would say is that if God has given Israel a certain amount of land back (of the land that is within His gift) they are not at liberty to use it as a bargaining chip as the land does not “belong” to the Jews and more than my son’s bedroom “belongs” to him. It belongs through my gift alone.

That's a mighty big 'if' though is it not? I mean if we all (Christians) ran around basing our beliefs on 'ifs' then there would we be?

Besides that the term 'Christian Zionist' puzzles me. If you believe the Bible that in the end times Jews will be gathered into Israel then surely that's just being a Bible believing Christian. But if you add Zionist into the mix we would then open ourselves up to false teaching. A good example of this would be the recent video you posted in the miracle thread. The Zionist preacher, when talking about 1947 onward, made some claims that had the crowd whooping and clapping yet none of them could know factually if what they are being told is true or not. Another example would be a group of Zionist Christians from UK whose pastor put up a blog saying that homosexuality and gay rights are a disgrace in God's eyes and should be made illegal. Three to four weeks later the Ziosphere, which had obviously been sent a memo, were praising Israel for their gay rights and guess who put up a blog praising Israel for their gay rights...yep the pastor who just weeks earlier was condemning gay rights and there's an absolute ton of other contradictions if you look hard enough.
 






Stucky

Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
591
What were the borders of historic Palestine?
That's irrelevant to what i said. My guess is that you think you're being clever by asking what is basically a loaded question. However i could be wrong so i suggest you could look at some of your Zionist propaganda sites such as "myths and facts" who have maps of Palestine on their sites. however i should warn you that it might be confusing because as well as having the maps with borders they also say that there were no borders.
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
10,237
If you believe the Bible that in the end times Jews will be gathered into Israel then surely that's just being a Bible believing Christian. But if you add Zionist into the mix we would then open ourselves up to false teaching.
I don’t disagree with the point above. The word “Zionist” is applied either by non-Christian anti semites or Christian supersessionists who believe that there could be no place for Israel in any of God’s future dealings with the world.

I am a Christian who believes that Jesus is the only way to the Father. He said “I am the door” and no other “ways” will restore that broken relationship. I also believe as per Romans 11 and other passages, that there will be a future dealing on the world scene with national Israel, and that prior to that they would be gathered back to the land (in unbelief aka Ezekiel’s vision of the valley of the dry bones) from the nations of the world. That does not mean I approve of everything modern Israel does and stands for.
 






Last edited:

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,308
That's irrelevant to what i said. My guess is that you think you're being clever by asking what is basically a loaded question. However i could be wrong so i suggest you could look at some of your Zionist propaganda sites such as "myths and facts" who have maps of Palestine on their sites. however i should warn you that it might be confusing because as well as having the maps with borders they also say that there were no borders.
I forgot you don’t actually entertain questions about the things you say. I can provide you with maps that show the borders of historic Israel. If Palestinians have any historic claim on the land, shouldn’t they be able to do the same? If you don’t like my questions about “historic” Palestine, don’t use the term.
 






friend

Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
677
90% of Arabic Social Media Chatter About Israel-Gulf Deals Negative, Report Finds
Popular hashtags against agreements with UAE and Bahrain reached over 100 million people in less than a month, according to Israel's Strategic Affairs Ministry


https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-report-90-percent-of-arabic-social-media-chatter-about-israel-gulf-deals-negative-1.9226902

 






Top