“If God did not create evil then who did? Who has the power of creation in your universe?”

Lyfe

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May 11, 2020
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2,479
ive already highlighted the problem with that
if you deny Jesus through actions then the blame lies on the cross..it means the cross had no power of redemption, there was no grace. the common sinner could not benefit from faith in the cross.
paul argued that the cross as a living symbol and the circimcusion was a dead symbol based on their metaphysical transformational effects.


get a clue man. you guys are so slow at this.
Your arguing against Paul not me. He was the one that wrote "they profess that they know God, but in WORKS they DENY him."

Even in Jude it says nothing about their doctrine on the Godhead being what denies Jesus. The whole book is about their carnality and lasciviousness.
 






Bubbajay

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Oct 24, 2021
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854
You can tell he's never read the bible, but talks like he's a biblical scholar. He doesn't even know what the verses he's quoting actually mean. Anyways Acts 5 tells us the Holy Spirit is God. It states that Ananius lied to the Holy Spirit, and that doing so he lied to God.


Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
 






Joined
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Your arguing against Paul not me. He was the one that wrote "they profess that they know God, but in WORKS they DENY him."

Even in Jude it says nothing about their doctrine on the Godhead being what denies Jesus. The whole book is about their carnality and lasciviousness.
refusal to condemn directly doesnt mean they werent pagan or at least false christian.
don't hide on this one, it is a clear issue. If they were merely sinners, then it would mean the cross had zero power over them..and that would be the death of christianity itself, fact.
if they were sincere in their beliefs, but their beliefs were wrong, then it means they were false christians to begin with, meaning the cross/christianity was not to blame. However such sincerity would mean they were only in error and mistaken, I would not expect too much condemnation for that.

this is something significant

I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.
4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[b] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


this one makes it clear, they were straight up fakes, pretending they're christian and using christian belief to justify sin. most likely they were mocking christianity and tempting the believers.

it says they will get eternal fire. for mere sin? even Jesus gave room for'the camel to go through the eye of the needle' meaning even a mustard seed of faith will redeem a person.

these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings.

perfect example in the modern era, people like david wood and ergun caner and many more of that ilk.
that shit is xtianity.
i truely believe the trinitarian doctrine was created by men who were knowingly trolling and mocking christianity..effectively destroying it.

i dont believe all 'xtians' belong in jude 1, but the ones who control it and dominate it, def are part of that jude 1 camp.
the rest are just too stupid to know any better..
of course there are those who dont know any better and yet attach themselves to their 'christian' identity as an extention of their ego.
 






Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Messages
500
......

Furthermore, the holy spirit was to 'speak only what he hears'
......

The Heart never speaks, but you must listen it to know.

- Old Chinese Proverb
 






Axl888

Established
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
372
my beliefs are strong. yours are pathetic.
Well, you are entitled to your own belief, except that your strong belief will lead you to the lake of fire...you should know this since you claim to have thoroughly read the Bible (The Gospel) and you have confessed that the Bible is true and not corrupted.

Remember what Jesus said...

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

No one comes to the Father except through Jesus, not through mohammad, not through Islam.
 






Lyfe

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May 11, 2020
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2,479
refusal to condemn directly doesnt mean they werent pagan or at least false christian.
don't hide on this one, it is a clear issue. If they were merely sinners, then it would mean the cross had zero power over them..and that would be the death of christianity itself, fact.
if they were sincere in their beliefs, but their beliefs were wrong, then it means they were false christians to begin with, meaning the cross/christianity was not to blame. However such sincerity would mean they were only in error and mistaken, I would not expect too much condemnation for that.

this is something significant

I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.
4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[b] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


this one makes it clear, they were straight up fakes, pretending they're christian and using christian belief to justify sin. most likely they were mocking christianity and tempting the believers.

it says they will get eternal fire. for mere sin? even Jesus gave room for'the camel to go through the eye of the needle' meaning even a mustard seed of faith will redeem a person.

these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings.

perfect example in the modern era, people like david wood and ergun caner and many more of that ilk.
that shit is xtianity.
i truely believe the trinitarian doctrine was created by men who were knowingly trolling and mocking christianity..effectively destroying it.

i dont believe all 'xtians' belong in jude 1, but the ones who control it and dominate it, def are part of that jude 1 camp.
the rest are just too stupid to know any better..
of course there are those who dont know any better and yet attach themselves to their 'christian' identity as an extention of their ego.
Believing that Jesus is God doesnt make someone a false Christian. You need to really examine what spirit you are being led by that would cause you to come here and disdain Christians on the basis that they believe Jesus is God. Its not the holy spirit.
 






elsbet

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Jun 4, 2017
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In John 16, Jesus said 'i have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear to hear them right now'.
He further said he would send the holy spirit to reveal ALL THE TRUTH AND TELL YOU WHAT IS YET TO COME... it literally means another revelation was incoming.
ACTS 2 is the fulfillment of the foretold arrival of the Holy Spirit.

Nowhere in the bible did it say there cannot be another revelation. Rather, that Jesus being the messiah and the capstone, it means there cannot be any jewish prophet or messiah after him. He is the end of that line.
"the sceptre shall not depart from judah, till Shiloh comes" ie the sceptre certain can leave judah (go to the gentiles) once Jesus has come.
It left clear cut room for a gentile prophet..and it made perfect sense that prophet would be an ishmaelite, fulfilling the promises on that end.

Here's an example of how this is broken down.
Paul, argued that the Patriarchs (Abraham to Joseph) were 'righteous by faith before there was a law'.
So think about this...at one point there was faith and no law. YET God decided to reveal a law. WHY?
first reason was that the israelites lost said 'faith' when they became pagan in egypt.
the second was on the merits of the law, it's purpose 'not revealed to conceal sin but to make it known, so God's grace could be revealed'.

now the gentiles of early christianity were similarly compared to the patriarchs ie 'righteous by faith'.
it is perfectly logical then that the gentiles would err, become pagan (this time in Rome) and then it would become necessary for the holy spirit to bring a religion with laws, just like Moses came with the Torah, yet this would have to be a gentile version.
The Law condemns.
The Gentiles are covered, already-- all of them / us. What you (correctly) pointed out concerning the Patriarchs in the OT (saved by faith... idk why you said "before the law" though; it wasn't), extended to the Gentiles, as well--> as Jesus reminded the crowd in the synagogue at Nazareth, in the time of Elijah, and then Elisha, of the many widows and lepers, only Zarephath of Sidon and Naaman of Syria-- both Gentiles-- were helped and healed (respectively). Why... because they believed Jehovah the God of Israel could heal them. The people in the synagogue became seriously p.o.'d when He said that. :D

Another example
in the parable of the tenants, Jesus spoke of the vineyard and the tenants. He told the jews that they would be kicked out as tenants and it would go to other people who would produce the fruits.
I am well aware of how xtians have concealed this by insisting this vienyard is 'the kingdom of God which is within and not a physical place', yet in isaiah 5, the vineyard in Jerusalem!!.
Now if you look at the past 2000 yrs, muslims controlled jerusalem for a period of 1260 lunar yrs...thus fulfilling Revelation 11.
I need a clarification here: do you believe the term Gentiles applies to Arabs / the descendants of Ishmael, exclusively? Even if so, this is also covered in the bible-- Arabs in Acts 2 (linked above) and the blessing of Ishmael-- twelve nations shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. His genealogy is recorded in Genesis 25, with the names of his 12 sons listed in order of birth; Isaac's genealogy follows.

Revelation 11-- are you sure? This chapter essentially declares the advent of the Antichrist-- the Beast from the Abyss.

It would be entirely wrong to assume islam is from satan or just made up, given islam has proven its legitimacy by taking control of the temple mount for that extent of time, longer than christianity (or xtianity for that matter) and longer than the israelites/jews did in their entire history (from David to Jesus and anything since then).

yet muslims have lost it too..and that goes in line with my own arguments against muslims ie literally writing the Quran with their own hands and ironically doing so with the very verse which itself highlights the people of scripture doing this very thing. it is so ironic.

Aside from all that, islam had a seperate story aswell. it dealt with the pagan world that the christian world didnt really touch. the arab peninsula, the east and africa.
notice how in isaiah 42 when it gets to the 'new song' part, the energy changes..?
the first 9 verses of isaiah 42 represent christianity and Jesus
and he will bring justice to the nations.
2 He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets.
3 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;


yet the new song prophecy, totally different
10 Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the ends of the earth,
you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,
you islands, and all who live in them.
11 Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;
let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.

Let the people of Sela sing for joy;
let them shout from the mountaintops.
12 Let them give glory to the Lord
and proclaim his praise in the islands.
13 The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies.
14 “For a long time I have kept silent,
I have been quiet and held myself back.
But now, like a woman in childbirth,
I cry out, I gasp and pant.
15 I will lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools.
16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,
along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them
and make the rough places smooth.
These are the things I will do;
I will not forsake them.

17 But those who trust in idols,
who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’
will be turned back in utter shame.


if you study the rise of islam, this is exactly what it was.
the last bit ive highlighted is necessary ie ishmael was not forgotten and it is beautiful that it took Jesus, before ishmael was remembered again.

now consider what is in the Quran in light of the target audience. there's bound to be a different mythos.

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #48)


idk what you want from islam tbh. you just expect everyone to be christian and nothing more. neither Jesus nor the apostles ever argued against another religion per se. paul only argued against 'another Gospel', the Quran is not a gospel.
The integration of the Gentiles in both the old and new testaments, is fundamental--> the Good News. And while I can certainly appreciate the effort you've put into research-- and I do-- the bible is emphatic concerning additions, removal and changes. Warnings of false prophets to come abound, from Jesus.

But the quran definitely qualifies as another gospel-- take this, for instance, from the first part of your response--
which directly kills the
trinitarian pagan doctrine of...​

That has nothing to do with my statement-- so what is your point? Unless you're acknowledging the difference between the messages in the bible and the quran.
-
 






Lyfe

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May 11, 2020
Messages
2,479
ACTS 2 is the fulfillment of the foretold arrival of the Holy Spirit.


The Law condemns.
The Gentiles are covered, already-- all of them / us. What you (correctly) pointed out concerning the Patriarchs in the OT (saved by faith... idk why you said "before the law" though; it wasn't), extended to the Gentiles, as well--> as Jesus reminded the crowd in the synagogue at Nazareth, in the time of Elijah, and then Elisha, of the many widows and lepers, only Zarephath of Sidon and Naaman of Syria-- both Gentiles-- were helped and healed (respectively). Why... because they believed Jehovah the God of Israel could heal them. The people in the synagogue became seriously p.o.'d when He said that. :D


I need a clarification here: do you believe the term Gentiles applies to Arabs / the descendants of Ishmael, exclusively? Even if so, this is also covered in the bible-- Arabs in Acts 2 (linked above) and the blessing of Ishmael-- twelve nations shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. His genealogy is recorded in Genesis 25, with the names of his 12 sons listed in order of birth; Isaac's genealogy follows.

Revelation 11-- are you sure? This chapter essentially declares the advent of the Antichrist-- the Beast from the Abyss.


The integration of the Gentiles in both the old and new testaments, is fundamental--> the Good News. And while I can certainly appreciate the effort you've put into research-- and I do-- the bible is emphatic concerning additions, removal and changes. Warnings of false prophets to come abound, from Jesus.

But the quran definitely qualifies as another gospel-- take this, for instance, from the first part of your response--
which directly kills the
trinitarian pagan doctrine of...​

That has nothing to do with my statement-- so what is your point? Unless you're acknowledging the difference between the messages in the bible and the quran.
-
Sadly such dissidents of the gospel cannot understand the truth, because they are not led by the holy spirit. Their first step is to humble themselves before God and accept that they in actuality know nothing. Until they do this they will just rely on their own vain reasoning and wisdom, never coming to the knowledge of the truth. We must pray for God to give them eyes to see and ears to hear, lest the god of this world will continue to blind their heart.
 






Daze

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Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
2,308
167 replies and I"m guessing no ones highlighted that the Bible says God created Darkness?

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7)



So whose holy ghost is winning?

MJ.jpg
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,466
ACTS 2 is the fulfillment of the foretold arrival of the Holy Spirit.


The Law condemns.
The Gentiles are covered, already-- all of them / us. What you (correctly) pointed out concerning the Patriarchs in the OT (saved by faith... idk why you said "before the law" though; it wasn't), extended to the Gentiles, as well--> as Jesus reminded the crowd in the synagogue at Nazareth, in the time of Elijah, and then Elisha, of the many widows and lepers, only Zarephath of Sidon and Naaman of Syria-- both Gentiles-- were helped and healed (respectively). Why... because they believed Jehovah the God of Israel could heal them. The people in the synagogue became seriously p.o.'d when He said that. :D


I need a clarification here: do you believe the term Gentiles applies to Arabs / the descendants of Ishmael, exclusively? Even if so, this is also covered in the bible-- Arabs in Acts 2 (linked above) and the blessing of Ishmael-- twelve nations shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. His genealogy is recorded in Genesis 25, with the names of his 12 sons listed in order of birth; Isaac's genealogy follows.

Revelation 11-- are you sure? This chapter essentially declares the advent of the Antichrist-- the Beast from the Abyss.


The integration of the Gentiles in both the old and new testaments, is fundamental--> the Good News. And while I can certainly appreciate the effort you've put into research-- and I do-- the bible is emphatic concerning additions, removal and changes. Warnings of false prophets to come abound, from Jesus.

But the quran definitely qualifies as another gospel-- take this, for instance, from the first part of your response--
which directly kills the
trinitarian pagan doctrine of...​

That has nothing to do with my statement-- so what is your point? Unless you're acknowledging the difference between the messages in the bible and the quran.
-
1)
The truth is the holy spirit has always been active and working in people, before Jesus and after. It's a question of what Jesus meant specifically in John 16 and what it led to.

The first thing is, why was it necessary for Jesus to go for the advocate to come? it links to "the sceptre shall not depart from judah until shiloh has come". Isaiah 42 also extends to this
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,


'a light for the gentiles', meaning the gentile period was coming. This is what leads me to break down Paul's own arguments. The patriarchs were 'righteous by faith BEFORE THE LAW' ie before Moses came with the law, the patriarchs were already righteous by faith. YET God saw fit to bring the law of Moses. Paul was defending the purpose of the law, not trashing it. His argument was that the law was necessary to expose the depths of sin and thus open the way for God's Grace. Why didnt God just bring about His Grace immediately? why all of this running around in the desert with Moses, over 1200 yrs of faffing around between politics and religion. Basically the israelites were taken to Egypt for 400 yrs, enslaved and lost their way there, lost their beliefs and thus that 'Grace of God' they were living under was rendered non applicable. Instead of simply forgiving them and teaching them the way, they were instead given the Torah. So, if they could lose their way in egypt, why are christians exempt? you're not exempt and that's part ofmy point on christianity vs xtianity.
Yes, for sure the gentiles who knew/met Jesus and accepted him, were saved..but im talking about every non-israelite since then. The entire gentile world. saved or not, like the patriarchs or not, the point is even the israelites lost their way eventually despite being under faith.

Just an example of that, the 7 churches of Revelation, they were in cities that are all muslim cities today. the holy spirit was watching those churches and yet, saw fit, to remove them. Just as the israelites lost their position under faith and came under the law, this is what was necessary for gentiles.

So, for the gentile story to come to completion, it was necessary for the gentiles to go through the same process, coming under faith first under christianity, to lose their way and then come under the law through a gentile prophet. also just to add, the gentiles are non-israelites, inc the ishmaelites.


2)
You mentioned how Ismael had 12 sons. Ismael lived in the arse end of nowhere, he was a nomad, so he was a king of no one. how could he raise 12 princes if they ruled over nothing? What that is, is just the mythos aspect of scripture ie told from a jewish/israelite perspective. it doesnt need to dwell on the ishmaelite story.

God said 'I will make him a GREAT NATION'. Have a little bit of a think about this one...
babylon, persia, greece, rome, were 'great nations' right? and yet their relevance and even their greatness was only due to their connection/rule over the temple mount. Therefore a great nation on God's terms is going to be way more impressive than all of them 4 beasts.
This is the part where im forced to give you a big song and dance about the acheivements of islam and it's relation to the biblical themes/prophecies.....


3)
the parable of tenants. The vineyard (isaiah 5, Jerusalem). So God would give the vineyard to other people and they would produce the fruits.
Between islam and christianity, muslims ruled it longer and christianity had a 600 year head start (no ego in this point, since it isnt even my own acheivement, its the past, different class of people from us).
It would be foolish to just pretend this wasnt significant though.

4)
ive shared this previously, but here goes

Muslims conquered Jerusalem in
637AD
first crusade where it was lost to Christians..
1099AD
Muslims took it back in 1187 and held it till 1948. 761 years and 462 years
Total 1223 years of Muslim control.
In lunar years that is 1223 X 1.03068
That comes to exactly 1260 years.


Revelation 11, '1260 days' (days represent years in a lot of OT prophecy)
Now about the 2 olive trees in this prophecy, in my personal understanding of metaphysics, i tend to think of the passive and active element relating to the left and right brain hemisphere and connecting with God's Trancendence and Immanence and furthermore our metaphysical descent and ascent.
yet, this is the suffering servant archetype and the davidic conquerer archetype aswell. We find that in Jesus obviously, but with Jesus it isnt fully fulfilled yet, the right side/active side is not fulfilld yet.
Jesus being the Word is the Macrocosmic expression of God's Immanence, the Holy Spirit being the microcosmic, means that whatever would happen (linked to john 16) would be a microcosmic version, a 'foreshadowing' or a reflection on a lesser level.

" That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.” "
ie the holy spirit is a reflection of the Son on the microcosmic level.
If you dont know what i mean by macrocosmic and microcosmic. It also relates to the Law and to the higher system of Faith (or Grace).
The law is an extention of individual consciousness whereas the higher system of faith is about severing the connection to our individuality and becoming part of universal consciousness. The teachings of Jesus 'turn the other cheek' 'forgiveness' and certainly the cross, represent that death of the ego. Eg the circimcusion (law) represents the cutting of the flesh, whereas the cross represents the death of the flesh.

Now a perfect example of this whole theme is there in Surah 18 (which is called The Cave, named after the story of the 7 sleepers, who were christian).
Much of this chapter delves on the left/right topic (you should study it). However it gives us a story of Moses being taught by a person/being called Khidr.

60. And when Moses said unto his servant: I will not give up until I reach the point where the two rivers meet, though I march on for ages.
61. And when they reached the point where the two met, they forgot their fish, and it took its way into the waters, being free.
62. And when they had gone further, he said unto his servant: Bring us our breakfast. Verily we have found fatigue in this our journey.
63. He said: Didst thou see, when we took refuge on the rock, and I forgot the fish - and none but Satan caused me to forget to mention it - it took its way into the waters by a marvel.
64. He said: This is that which we have been seeking. So they retraced their steps again.
65. Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.
66. Moses said unto him: May I follow thee, to the end that thou mayst teach me right conduct of that which thou hast been taught?
67. He said: Lo! thou canst not bear with me.
68. How canst thou bear with that whereof thou canst not compass any knowledge?
69. He said: Allah willing, thou shalt find me patient and I shall not in aught gainsay thee.
70. He said: Well, if thou go with me, ask me not concerning aught till I myself make mention of it unto thee.
71. So they twain set out till, when they were in the ship, he made a hole therein. (Moses) said: Hast thou made a hole therein to drown the folk thereof? Thou verily hast done a dreadful thing.
72. He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
73. (Moses) said: Be not wroth with me that I forgot, and be not hard upon me for my fault.
74. So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him. (Moses) said: What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man? Verily thou hast done a horrid thing.
75. He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
76. (Moses) said: If I ask thee after this concerning aught, keep not company with me. Thou hast received an excuse from me.
77. So they twain journeyed on till, when they came unto the folk of a certain township, they asked its folk for food, but they refused to make them guests. And they found therein a wall upon the point of falling into ruin, and he repaired it. (Moses) said: If thou hadst wished, thou couldst have taken payment for it.
78. He said: This is the parting between thee and me! I will announce unto thee the interpretation of that thou couldst not bear with patience.
79. As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working on the river, and I wished to mar it, for there was a king behind them who is taking every ship by force.
80. And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
81. And we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in purity and nearer to mercy.
82. And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, and there was beneath it a treasure belonging to them, and their father had been righteous, and thy Lord intended that they should come to their full strength and should bring forth their treasure as a mercy from their Lord; and I did it not upon my own command. Such is the interpretation of that wherewith thou couldst not bear.
even the part of the 'fish' is symbolised further in the Ichthys symbol in christianity which unites the 2 points of duality to 1.

My point btw, here, is that islam represents archetypes on the lesser level, the microcosmic..whereas Jesus upon his return is going to bring completion again. The death of the 2 olive trees represents that. the world refusing them burial for 3 days and then their resurrection, it obv connected to the crucifixion aswell...which ultimately brings completion to the system of law that islam is representing. it is the gentile period going full circle, just like the jewish period until Jesus came.
Rev 11 goes from the gentiles to the antichrist ie the antichrist comes after the gentile period. so, you might want to treat carefully if you're an israel fanboy.

Mohammad in Mecca was the suffering servant archetype at play and then in Madina he came the conquerer/ruler.
The Quran is similarly divided in 2 sections. The Meccan chapters and the Madani chapters.
Islam's role is essential as a foreshadowing leading to Jesus's second coming.

another example of that..
In Daniel 2, it is Jesus as the 'rock' that smashes the feet of iron/clay, destroying the whole image representing the Beast system.
Now the end times beast, is a combination of the 4 previous beasts.

Look at the 4 beasts. Babylon, it was still existing under the christian era, until islam came and ended babylon.
Persia was conquered by islam. Byzantine empire representing eastern rome, hence 'Greece' and finally muslims won the crusades. From that point onwards we've had the rise of the end times beast, the feet of iron/clay beginning with the colonial era which links to Rev 6's white horse.
Whatever your views of islam, you cannot deny it has been an antagonist to the Beast system and yet it has ruled jerusalem for that 1260 day(lunar yrs) period.
Would all of this just happen without God having a stake in it?

I've also gone in detail on Rev 11 and 12 before in relation to Zechariah 12.
Zech 12 actually tells us that the TRUE REMNANT of Judea wont be cut off and that they would survive 70AD (the destruction of jerusalem). Likewise the Quran was telling us that the TRUE BELIEF prevailed over bani israel eg the a party of them were true believers and remained on truth. it goes without saying that the true remnant became christian (since the apostles themselves were jew by blood and righteous, thus part of that remnant. Broken down further, it means the true remnant were absorbed into a new palestinian identity and hence eventually became muslim (since islam took over)
Rev 12 is directly linking this true jewish remnant with the wilderness 'for 1260 days' (again linking to Rev 11).
there's clear cut legitimacy to islam and it is there in plain writing.

also i forgot to add but the 12 princes promise, that is the 12 Caliphs of Quraysh which culminates in the Imam Mahdi as the final one. Caliphs are true 'princes', by defenition, since a caliph is a vicegerent, a prince, but never a king.

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish." (Book #89, Hadith #329)


5)
Finally and most importantly, the actual point of the holy spirit promise in john 16...
why did Jesus say he had many more things to say 'but you cannot bear to here them right now?'

think about it, anything Paul taught, Jesus could have taught too easily and the entire 'proof' Paul comes with as visions of Jesus coming to the disciples and early christians. Is that what Jesus meant 'you cant know the truth yet, because you need to see visions first'?
This is not limited to mere teachings in epistles or mere visions,..it makes for an entire AGE...events taking place on earth that would set the bar on their own terms. Goes back to the parable of tenants. The jews being kicked out of the holy land first and giving way to the tenants eg the gentile era.

John 16
8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
9 about sin, because people do not believe in me;
10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.



Isaiah 42
read the new song prophecy again...

See Jesus was representing his passive side back then 'silent' as per Isaiah 42, under that condition he couldnt show the whole truth directly. It would take an entire age of gentiles conquering, establishing a global 'law' system and then Jesus coming back to fulfill it all ie to bring completion. now go and read how isaiah 42 ends.

reading Revelation 2 and 3...the holy spirit clearly suggested his work was not over yet...ive already pointed out that those churches are in cities that all became muslim eventually.


6) btw im aware this post is all over the place. im half alseep but there's just too much connected to these topics so its hard to get my point across without rambling on about other related things.
one thing im absolutely certain about is that what Jesus promised in John 16 was not completed by the christians, as i said it goes on to the parable of tenants, the gentile era, the entire system of law vs faith at work on a larger scale.
'by their tresspass the gentiles are reckoned'
just an example of this..
7th century jewish messianicism led to the sassanian-byzantine war, cultiminating in the establishment of a jewish state in jerusalem under sassanian authority.
when those jews visualise their messiah who they strongly believed was coming...was he like Jesus or was he close to their own image eg as someone hanging onto the torah and giving jews rule over the region? think of that image/archetype...that's what i mean by 'microcosm of Jesus' eg a lesser version under the system of law which is an extention of ego as opposed to the higher system of faith. just so you know in islam, the 3 levels are iman (belief), islam(perfect submission) and ihsan(true God consciousness).
eg in the islam system, ego still exists, it's just submitted to God's Will, but it is still by force. think of the old testament era, the prophets/kings.
for ihsan, the ego has to cease to exist even if it's temporarily suspended for the experience.
the jews under the ego system, under flesh, would envigage a messiah figure in their own image...one of the mandem.
however Leviticus 26 contains the 'punishments' promise..and that serves as an unconscious collective guilt complex. meaning even if the jews consciously hate and reject Jesus, their hearts cannot deny him and they know they have no temple, are under the curse. even if they wilfully ignore this, their heart knows. Thus the archetype they envisaged, came into the world, 'you wil plant a seed in vain but will not eat of it's fruit'.
get it? this is a necessary aspect of Jesus's rejection, that the jews would further envisage another messiah, but it would play out in 2 different ways.
before Mohammad's arrival, the jews set up shop in persia. they forged a fake zoroastrian prophetic book called 'the bahman yast', they set up the 'good east vs the evil/demonic west' via that book and it led to the conquest of jerusalem. However due to that collective guilt complex, Mohammad came. they hated him, they knew what he was, he was their own creation, their own interpretation gone wrong.
'by their tresspass the gentiles are reckoned' takes a deeper twist.

it's why today, the jews absolutely hate arabs and persians. don't assume they're ignorant, they're consciously bitter and obsessed with reversing the old polarity. it is the 7th century in reverse..
and just look at this prophecy in the hadith
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: iraq would withhold its dirhams and qafiz; syria would withhold its mudd and dinar and egypt would withhold its irdab and dinar and you would recoil to that position from where you started and you would recoil to that position from where you started and you would recoil to that position from where you started, the bones and the flesh of Abu Huraira would bear testimony to it. (Book #041, Hadith #6923)

iraq and syria we've already witnessed, that is the euphrates. egypt is coming, that is the Nile. That is 'greater israel' and that polarity reversal complete, that is the end of the current age of islam, the death of the 2 witnesses and the dajjal/antichrist period.

chapter 18 of the Quran is a messianic themed chapter. the last 10 verses are 'a protection against dajjal' so im particularly fascinated by it's themes. it even highlights the story of Cyrus the great who himself is a messiah (isaiah 45). The whole chapter 18 in the Quran and isaiah 45 are full of dualistic symbolism which plays out by this new 'good west vs EVIL ISLAM' battle, which culminates in the antichrist.
you should read the story of 'the 2 horned one' (the 2 horned ram of Daniel 7 btw, cyrus the great) in chapter 18 which ive linked you..and then read isaiah 45..notice how the polarity is reversed. there's going to be some unconscious level side to this. lastly, i see all religion, scripture as programming and just unconscious level themes playing out that even people dont undetstand. however i def think the jews know what's up, they're intelligent AF and kabballah is heavy on this dualistic topic. Furthermore, considering jews lived in persia for 2500 yrs (only 2500 btw, nothing), persians gave them a holy land. their thank you was to make this shitty 300 movie where they worshipped the greeks instead...their historical persecutors. point being. they're willing to fuck over a historical ally/big brother over a small time obsession with this polarity reversal which they perfectly understand.
it would be easier to just accept Jesus!!!





so how could Jesus express all of this to people back then? it had to play out.
 






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Well, you are entitled to your own belief, except that your strong belief will lead you to the lake of fire...you should know this since you claim to have thoroughly read the Bible (The Gospel) and you have confessed that the Bible is true and not corrupted.

Remember what Jesus said...

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

No one comes to the Father except through Jesus, not through mohammad, not through Islam.
im well aware of my flaws but my intentions are not wrong. We have a different understanding of the Gospel and it's meaning.
The Logos for me is the universal consciousness...and it is the macrocosmic expression of God's Immanence.
Although, this is also really the 'true' side of christianity itself..
search Immanence on wiki
According to Christian theology, the transcendent God, who cannot be approached or seen in essence or being, becomes immanent primarily in the God-man Jesus the Christ, who is the incarnate Second Person of the Trinity. In
Byzantine Rite
theology the immanence of God is expressed as the hypostases or energies of God, who in his essence is incomprehensible and transcendent. In Catholic theology, Christ and the Holy Spirit immanently reveal themselves; God the Father only reveals himself immanently vicariously through the Son and Spirit, and the divine nature, the Godhead is wholly transcendent and unable to be comprehended.

i agree with all of this, except where it says 'God-man Jesus'. The Logos incarnated as Jesus, but it is infinitely bigger than Jesus the man. The Logos/Son is eternal..and that is easy for me to accept.
see, it's like this..
is there anything you can ever do or have done, that God doesn't already know? thus God has known about you eternally. yet what makes you 'real' is due to God's knowledge of you. God's knowledge being eternal by extention means everything is eternal...as in it is eternally 'with' God. That state/level of metaphysics is the Logos.

so when we're talking about 'I am the way and the truth, no one comes to the Father except through me' thast is THE SON/LOGOS speaking..and it is metaphysically true by default, it doesnt depend on personal belief. it's like saying 'to get to the pleides, you have to traverse through space''. The Logos is the connection between all things and the Trancendent/unknowable God.
It is the NT that uses the term for 'through' ie that God is expressed Immanent THROUGH THE SON which means the SON IS NOT THE IMMANENT GOD on it's own ie the Son is more like a prism and God is the light. by extention the prism is light, but it isnt the origin of the light.
Now whether it is subjectively seeing God's Immanence in Jesus himself...or seeing God's Immanence in the sky, or in a tree, it's the same thing...
we dont worship tree's or stones or the sky or stars for the same reason, they themselves are not God, even when God is Immanent in all things.
islam does hold a balanced view on this..

furthermore, on the lower end of the metaphysical spectrum, Jesus is the messiah and it is still necessary to believe in him,..and muslims do.

your big problem with islam is that islam doesnt worship Jesus nor does it centre itself around him. It centres around this 'God' concept instead.

Btw, just another big of evidence against your pagan beliefs

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

not 'my paradise' ie because the holy spirit is not God.

just as I have received authority from my Father.

These are the words of him who holds the seven spiritsof God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God.


'co equals in Godhead'

worry more about yourself man.
 






Bubbajay

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This reprobate will continue to blaspeme our Lord as long as he has an audience. His conscience has been seared with a hot iron.
 






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Believing that Jesus is God doesnt make someone a false Christian. You need to really examine what spirit you are being led by that would cause you to come here and disdain Christians on the basis that they believe Jesus is God. Its not the holy spirit.
the holy spirit in Revelation 3 blatantly refers to The Father as 'my God' and yet this trinitarian creed says the holy spirit is 'co equal in Godhead' with the Father aswell as the son.
Furthermore Jesus is going to tell a load of so called christians 'get away from me you evildoers, i never knew you'.

now ive covered the bit about sin. if they were merely sinners and authentic in their intentions, then they are not to blame and the failure (for their sinfulness) is on the cross, Jesus would never reject people who were sincere and failed. Afterall christianity extends it's hand to sinners with the power to break the cycle of sin in them through the power of the cross. If however they have bad intent from the beginning then they arent christian at all but merely masquander as christians. It's their identity they worship, an extention of their ego. That's my assessment of most so called christians. When i see the popular ones like david wood, ergun caner, sam shamoun and many more. it's blatantly obv what they are, def not christian.

perhaps im just led by my own conscience? why does it need to be the holy spirit or a demon? silly stuff. as if you have the holy spirit...no one does these days. it's disrespectful to think you do tbh.
 






Lyfe

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the holy spirit in Revelation 3 blatantly refers to The Father as 'my God' and yet this trinitarian creed says the holy spirit is 'co equal in Godhead' with the Father aswell as the son.
Furthermore Jesus is going to tell a load of so called christians 'get away from me you evildoers, i never knew you'.

now ive covered the bit about sin. if they were merely sinners and authentic in their intentions, then they are not to blame and the failure (for their sinfulness) is on the cross, Jesus would never reject people who were sincere and failed. Afterall christianity extends it's hand to sinners with the power to break the cycle of sin in them through the power of the cross. If however they have bad intent from the beginning then they arent christian at all but merely masquander as christians. It's their identity they worship, an extention of their ego. That's my assessment of most so called christians. When i see the popular ones like david wood, ergun caner, sam shamoun and many more. it's blatantly obv what they are, def not christian.

perhaps im just led by my own conscience? why does it need to be the holy spirit or a demon? silly stuff. as if you have the holy spirit...no one does these days. it's disrespectful to think you do tbh.
Its no wonder you are so deceived and believe as you do. You claim that Christians cant have and dont have the holy spirit. This is taught everywhere in the NT. I believe my Bible. You clearly don't.
 






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Its no wonder you are so deceived and believe as you do. You claim that Christians cant have and dont have the holy spirit. This is taught everywhere in the NT. I believe my Bible. You clearly don't.

the New Testament epistles were written to particular churches/christian communities in a time and place.
if i wrote a letter addressed to the current VC community, would it be applicable to a VC community 10 years from now?

same applies to the Quran. Muslims are addressed in it, yet it isnt speaking to muslims today, it is speaking to the existing community at that time and the contexts and conditions they were under. Those conditions change...and it requires wisdom (hikmah in the Quran) and even basic common sense to see when certain things apply and when they don't.

example
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To God’s holy people in Ephesus,[a] the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

he wasnt talking to you. Notice how it's GOD OUR FATHER only and not 'GOD OUR SON'?
'lord Jesus Christ' being adoni, is not God. Just an example.
if you're claiming Jesus is God, that is false, aswell as pagan. good luck with that.


14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every family[a] in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,
18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Paulw as praying with hope that they may be strengthened by the holy spirit..and you're just running along like 'I HAVE IT, ITS INSIDE OF ME, JESUS IZ LORD GOD!!'


I didnt say CHRISTIANS can't btw, full respect to real christians. im talking about xtians like yourself. Also, can't and don't are not the same thing. I don't believe in 'can't' in this case since that is upto God and He can reach anyone. However im sure most xtians (not christians, big big difference) def do not have the holy spirit and to claim they do is nothing but ego and vanity. If you were humble, you would pray and hope that you MAY BE STRENGTHENED by it.

sorry if this offends you, but what else can i say? you're clinging onto the Jesus is God argument and it is totally pagan and not in line with the new testament. you are completely free to prove it, but you can't. if you attempt it, you'll only contradict other things Jesus said. A consistent belief is one that cannot be contradicted.
 






TokiEl

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In the bible Jesus emphatically stated that He is God !

John 8 58“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!”


God presented Himself to Moses as I am.

Exodus 3 14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”





In the bible Isaiah prophesies that the devil will set up temple in Jerusalem !



Isaiah 14 12How you have fallen from heaven,

O day star,c son of the dawn!

You have been cut down to the ground,

O destroyer of nations.

13You said in your heart:

“I will ascend to the heavens;

I will raise my throne

above the stars of God.

I will sit on the mount of assembly,

in the far reaches of the north.d

14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;

I will make myself like the Most High.”




Truly the prophet of God is informing us that the devil will sit on the mount in Jerusalem where God used to sit in His temple !













Romans 10 11It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”f
 






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TokiEl

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Romans 10 14How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”



Muslims must submit to Jesus Christ if they truly love God !

If you loved God... you would love Jesus.



John 5 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.




It is Jesus Christ who is the Judge on the Day of Judgement !
 






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TokiEl

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Allah is the god of the world in this age ! but this age is coming to a close...

Jesus Christ is about to return in Person !

King of kings and Lord of lords and God of gods.




 






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Shuna

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Based on all religions, scientific observations, etc. I made an article which simplifies all that:
 






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