“If God did not create evil then who did? Who has the power of creation in your universe?”

TokiEl

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It is contended by some that Jesus was born in September.
Luke 2 8And there were shepherds residing in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks by night. 9Just then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid! For behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people: 11Today in the city of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord! 12And this will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.”



Strong's Greek: 5336. φάτνη (phatné) — 4 Occurrences

This word is only found in Luke... and translated 3 times as manger and 1 time as stall.

If you read Luke 2:16 carefully you will find that Joseph and Mary and Jesus were all lying in a manger.


It wasn't a manger but a booth... since this was the Feast of Booths.



 






Bubbajay

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Don't trust anyone who tries to use a lexicon to prove their point. If they can't prove it from the Bible itself, it doesn't exist. Our English bible if fully sufficient to prove all doctrines.
 






TokiEl

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I know you wouldn't talk like that to people face to fact, without a wall of anonymity.
People don't even believe in God or they believe in a god made up in their own image.

God is Truth... and that's why people don't recognize truths.
 






Bubbajay

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People don't even believe in God or they believe in a god made up in their own image.

God is Truth... and that's why people don't recognize truths.
What does
@



i was talking to @Daze and the topic was 'selective amnesia' from these xtians.
bible says God created evil. that isnt up for debate....and yet it is because xtians dont know anything about scripture. they bend scripture, butcher it completely. that's all i keep seeing.
If you think YOUR god created wickedness, then you are just as wicked as your god.
 






Axl888

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very easy to answer

1) There are terms used in languages that have dual meaning/application. For example the word 'LORD' can mean God or a high ranking person.
in hebrew there are 2 words, AdonAI and adoni, THE LORD (God) and adoni(lord). Yet in arabic there is only one word Rabb, just like in english, meaning lord. So in this situation islam adopts another word, syed/master for people and rabb only for God. Historically before islam, the arabs used rabb for men also.

the word used in Matthew 2
proskynēsai
it has dual meaning, it can mean to worship (as in as a God) or adore/pay reverence, pay homage to.
now an example of this is hebrew where again the word for worship has dual meaning

Daniel 2:46
Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him.

another translation
Then King Nebuchadnezzar threw himself down before Daniel and worshiped him, and he commanded his people to offer sacrifices and burn sweet incense before him.

obv the jews have the balance there and don't confuse this and think 'omg daniel iz God doe' so most translations omit the word 'worship' and say 'honour' instead. The xtian translations however mostly emphasise the word 'worship'.

of course if you'd done some research you'd know better...but alas, you're a xtian, so research and common sense gets flushed down the toilet.

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down [προσκυνήσουσιν (proskynēsousin)] before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.



2) you are also guilty of selective amnesia.
'i and the Father are one'
is not literally true, since Jesus himself said the Son can do nothing on his own, it is the Father doing it through the son..
they are one in PURPOSE but not obv the same in power.
so much for 'co equals in Godhead' which is plain satanic pagan shit.
So whats the difference between Daniel and Nebuchanezzar, and the young Jesus and the wise men?

Nebuchanezzar was amazed and “worshipped” Daniel because Daniel interpreted his dream, whereas the wise men worshipped the baby Jesus unconditionally without even seeing signs and wonders from Him, what could a baby do to be worshipped anyhow?

If you have discernment, you would know by now why the wise men worshipped Jesus. Because you are so blinded and confused with all the philosophies and new age ideas that you have absorbed and you are too prideful and arrogant to accept the truth, you have to resort to semantics just to justify your flawed rebuttal.
 






Bubbajay

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I know its off topic, but I have to say it.
Has anyone else ever doubted the sincerity of the three wise men? I know they worshipped Jesus and gave gifts, but they also told Herod where Jesus was. Being wise and knowing the OT prophecies of the Lord one would think they would have known the prophecy of Herod killing all the young male babies in Judea.

Maybe I'm just looking to much into the story.
 






Stucky

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in scotland, Glasgow Rangers are associated with freemasonry and are pro israel and protestant.
the catholic club Glasgow Celtic are pro palestine in response.
Wow i'm impressed that you know this. I have to correct you though. Celtic fans are pro Palestine and in response the knuckle draggers wave their little Israeli flags. Fact is though, Rangers fan base doesn't actually give a hoot about Israel. Here's a true story. One time Rangers played an away European tie in Tel-Aviv and their fans were giving nazi salutes. When reported to UEFA they claimed, and i kid you not, that it was actually a red hand salute which is identical to a nazi salute. Not the brightest bunch of fans in the universe....which probably goes a wee bit to explaining why they're the most racist fans in Britain.
 






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Wow i'm impressed that you know this. I have to correct you though. Celtic fans are pro Palestine and in response the knuckle draggers wave their little Israeli flags. Fact is though, Rangers fan base doesn't actually give a hoot about Israel. Here's a true story. One time Rangers played an away European tie in Tel-Aviv and their fans were giving nazi salutes. When reported to UEFA they claimed, and i kid you not, that it was actually a red hand salute which is identical to a nazi salute. Not the brightest bunch of fans in the universe....which probably goes a wee bit to explaining why they're the most racist fans in Britain.
By this logic aspiring soul should be a catholic as everything anti Israel is the truth according to him.

Convert aspiring soul ! See your logic through
 






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I know its off topic, but I have to say it.
Has anyone else ever doubted the sincerity of the three wise men? I know they worshipped Jesus and gave gifts, but they also told Herod where Jesus was. Being wise and knowing the OT prophecies of the Lord one would think they would have known the prophecy of Herod killing all the young male babies in Judea.

Maybe I'm just looking to much into the story.
Actually if you read there were 3 gifts doesn't actually specify three Wise men that Is an assumption we make
 






TokiEl

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When the world was falling headlong into Arianism... along came Athanasius and singlehandedly defended the Divinity of Jesus Christ against the heresy of the world.





You want to know what happened to the heretic Arian ?


It was then Saturday, and Arius was expecting to assemble with the church on the day following: but divine retribution overtook his daring criminalities. For going out of the imperial palace, attended by a crowd of Eusebian partisans like guards, he paraded proudly through the midst of the city, attracting the notice of all the people. As he approached the place called Constantine's Forum, where the column of porphyry is erected, a terror arising from the remorse of conscience seized Arius, and with the terror a violent relaxation of the bowels: he therefore enquired whether there was a convenient place near, and being directed to the back of Constantine's Forum, he hastened thither. Soon after a faintness came over him, and together with the evacuations his bowels protruded, followed by a copious hemorrhage, and the descent of the smaller intestines: moreover portions of his spleen and liver were brought off in the effusion of blood, so that he almost immediately died. The scene of this catastrophe still is shown at Constantinople, as I have said, behind the shambles in the colonnade: and by persons going by pointing the finger at the place, there is a perpetual remembrance preserved of this extraordinary kind of death.[37]
 






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When the world was falling headlong into Arianism... along came Athanasius and singlehandedly defended the Divinity of Jesus Christ against the heresy of the world.





You want to know what happened to the heretic Arian ?


It was then Saturday, and Arius was expecting to assemble with the church on the day following: but divine retribution overtook his daring criminalities. For going out of the imperial palace, attended by a crowd of Eusebian partisans like guards, he paraded proudly through the midst of the city, attracting the notice of all the people. As he approached the place called Constantine's Forum, where the column of porphyry is erected, a terror arising from the remorse of conscience seized Arius, and with the terror a violent relaxation of the bowels: he therefore enquired whether there was a convenient place near, and being directed to the back of Constantine's Forum, he hastened thither. Soon after a faintness came over him, and together with the evacuations his bowels protruded, followed by a copious hemorrhage, and the descent of the smaller intestines: moreover portions of his spleen and liver were brought off in the effusion of blood, so that he almost immediately died. The scene of this catastrophe still is shown at Constantinople, as I have said, behind the shambles in the colonnade: and by persons going by pointing the finger at the place, there is a perpetual remembrance preserved of this extraordinary kind of death.[37]
throughout the bible we see worse people but they don't die like that....that isnt how 'God' works in the bible.
plus you left this bit out

Modern scholars consider that the subsequent death of Arius may have been the result of poisoning by his opponents.[34][35][36] In contrast, some contemporaries of Arius asserted that the circumstances of his death were miraculous – consequence of Arius's heretical views. The latter view was evident in the account of Arius's death by a bitter enemy,

so basically this is consistent with my own view that christianity was destroyed, hijacked by the most satanic pagan shitstains who prob did black magic and posioned the guy to end him from stopping their pagan shit.
trinitarianism is 1000% polythiesm and it literally shits on the words of Jesus.

look at the background of the guy you've quoted...and i shit you not...


Socrates' teachers, noted in his prefaces, were the grammarians Helladius and Ammonius, who came to Constantinople from Alexandria, where they had been pagan priests. A revolt, accompanied by an attack on the pagan temples, had forced them to flee. This attack, in which the Serapeum was vandalized and destroyed, is dated about 391.



finally and most importantly...

CHRISTIANITY

Matthew 5:45
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.


Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Matthew 7:21
True and False Disciples
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.


Matthew 11:25
The Father Revealed in the Son
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.


Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


Matthew 24:36
The Day and Hour Unknown
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


Matthew 24:36
The Day and Hour Unknown
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”



xtianity

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But
the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.
Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.


"THEY ARE 3 BUT THEY ARE 1"
"THEYARE THE SAME, TOTALLY EQUAL AND ETERNAL"
"ONE IS BEGOTTEN, THE OTHER IS PROCEEDING"



the only people who believe in this nonsense are doing it out of worship of their own identity...they have picked a side but are not dedicated to 'truth'.













.
 






Bubbajay

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Messages
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throughout the bible we see worse people but they don't die like that....that isnt how 'God' works in the bible.
plus you left this bit out

Modern scholars consider that the subsequent death of Arius may have been the result of poisoning by his opponents.[34][35][36] In contrast, some contemporaries of Arius asserted that the circumstances of his death were miraculous – consequence of Arius's heretical views. The latter view was evident in the account of Arius's death by a bitter enemy,

so basically this is consistent with my own view that christianity was destroyed, hijacked by the most satanic pagan shitstains who prob did black magic and posioned the guy to end him from stopping their pagan shit.
trinitarianism is 1000% polythiesm and it literally shits on the words of Jesus.

look at the background of the guy you've quoted...and i shit you not...


Socrates' teachers, noted in his prefaces, were the grammarians Helladius and Ammonius, who came to Constantinople from Alexandria, where they had been pagan priests. A revolt, accompanied by an attack on the pagan temples, had forced them to flee. This attack, in which the Serapeum was vandalized and destroyed, is dated about 391.



finally and most importantly...

CHRISTIANITY

Matthew 5:45
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.


Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Matthew 7:21
True and False Disciples
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.


Matthew 11:25
The Father Revealed in the Son
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.


Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


Matthew 24:36
The Day and Hour Unknown
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


Matthew 24:36
The Day and Hour Unknown
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”




xtianity

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But
the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.
Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.


"THEY ARE 3 BUT THEY ARE 1"
"THEYARE THE SAME, TOTALLY EQUAL AND ETERNAL"
"ONE IS BEGOTTEN, THE OTHER IS PROCEEDING"



the only people who believe in this nonsense are doing it out of worship of their own identity...they have picked a side but are not dedicated to 'truth'.



When the world was falling headlong into Arianism... along came Athanasius and singlehandedly defended the Divinity of Jesus Christ against the heresy of the world.





You want to know what happened to the heretic Arian ?


It was then Saturday, and Arius was expecting to assemble with the church on the day following: but divine retribution overtook his daring criminalities. For going out of the imperial palace, attended by a crowd of Eusebian partisans like guards, he paraded proudly through the midst of the city, attracting the notice of all the people. As he approached the place called Constantine's Forum, where the column of porphyry is erected, a terror arising from the remorse of conscience seized Arius, and with the terror a violent relaxation of the bowels: he therefore enquired whether there was a convenient place near, and being directed to the back of Constantine's Forum, he hastened thither. Soon after a faintness came over him, and together with the evacuations his bowels protruded, followed by a copious hemorrhage, and the descent of the smaller intestines: moreover portions of his spleen and liver were brought off in the effusion of blood, so that he almost immediately died. The scene of this catastrophe still is shown at Constantinople, as I have said, behind the shambles in the colonnade: and by persons going by pointing the finger at the place, there is a perpetual remembrance preserved of this extraordinary kind of death.[37]
No one "single handedly" defended the world against Arianism. What I don't understand is how Christians can believe that the only real Christians were part of the Roman system. Its clearly written in the bible that there were churches (plural) started all throughout the east and the west at that time. Somehow though the only "real" christians were those who decided to show up when Constantine sent letters throughout the empire calling for a collective of christianity. The whole idea is preposterous. I'd be willing to bet the REAL Christians were those who didn't show up.
 






Bubbajay

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No one "single handedly" defended the world against Arianism. What I don't understand is how Christians can believe that the only real Christians were part of the Roman system. Its clearly written in the bible that there were churches (plural) started all throughout the east and the west at that time. Somehow though the only "real" christians were those who decided to show up when Constantine sent letters throughout the empire calling for a collective of christianity. The whole idea is preposterous. I'd be willing to bet the REAL Christians were those who didn't show up.
 






Daze

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"THEY ARE 3 BUT THEY ARE 1"
"THEYARE THE SAME, TOTALLY EQUAL AND ETERNAL"
"ONE IS BEGOTTEN, THE OTHER IS PROCEEDING"


the only people who believe in this nonsense are doing it out of worship of their own identity...they have picked a side but are not dedicated to 'truth'.
Its sad honestly. Even sadder is pretty much everyone of them think they are getting into heaven because "Jesus forgives all". As if he can do anything without the Almighty. Jesus literally says he can do nothing without God, but the fingers go into the ears.

It is evil what they do.

"Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures." (98:6 Quran)


Nothing can be said to them as I've tried repeatedly. Indeed some of us are created for the eternal fire.

"And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless. " (7:179 Quran)

All of it falls on death ears. These are hearts that are blackened and sealed.
 






Bubbajay

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Messages
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Its sad honestly. Even sadder is pretty much everyone of them think they are getting into heaven because "Jesus forgives all". As if he can do anything without the Almighty. Jesus literally says he can do nothing without God, but the fingers go into the ears.

It is evil what they do.

"Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures." (98:6 Quran)

Nothing can be said to them as I've tried repeatedly. Indeed some of us are created for the eternal fire.

"And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless. " (7:179 Quran)

All of it falls on death ears. These are hearts that are blackened and sealed.
What about those that worship the GameCube in Mecca?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I’m three parts Roger Price does a great job of grappling with the doctrine of the Trinity -

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3

This is the foundation of a wider study that looks at the attributes of God and sees them applying to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Just as the book of Acts shows the development of the understanding of the Gospel for the Gentiles and the implications for the keeping of the whole mosaic law, so the early church didn’t “make up” the doctrine of the Trinity, they simply formalised an understanding that flowed from reading the Bible and looking at the way the godhead was described.
 






TokiEl

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Its sad honestly. Even sadder is pretty much everyone of them think they are getting into heaven because "Jesus forgives all". As if he can do anything without the Almighty. Jesus literally says he can do nothing without God, but the fingers go into the ears.
John 5 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,


Jesus said He is the Judge.

All will be judged by Jesus.


No matter who you are and what you believe... you will stand before Jesus Christ.
 






TokiEl

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6,753
"THEY ARE 3 BUT THEY ARE 1"
"THEYARE THE SAME, TOTALLY EQUAL AND ETERNAL"
"ONE IS BEGOTTEN, THE OTHER IS PROCEEDING"



the only people who believe in this nonsense are doing it out of worship of their own identity...they have picked a side but are not dedicated to 'truth'.


God is 3 but God is 1.

The Father the Word/Son and the Holy spirit.



Man is 3 but man is 1.

Body soul and spirit.




It's not that hard to understand.
 






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