“All of our righteousness is as filthy rags” ~ Isaiah 64:6

Red Sky at Morning

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Not quite right according to Andy "never missed a meal" Wood ?

The Lord of lords is the living God and so to treat Him as Lord is mandatory.
OK...

In the interests of reasoned discussion, is there a Christian minister you find yourself in unity with who expresses your position in such a way others can engage with? Would you put yourself in John McArthurs camp on the “Lordship Salvation” question?

 






A Freeman

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Luke 18 18Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?

19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’ ”

21“All these have I kept from my youth,” he said.

22On hearing this, Jesus told him, “You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
Agreed. Wonder how many are willing right now to give up their worldly possessions and temporary wealth to follow Chris Who, as He prophesied, would have to be here now.


The gentiles are those who are not jews.
No, the Gentiles (foreigners) are those who are not ISRAELITES.

Ge.Allenby and the brits are not jews and so are gentiles.
The British ARE Israelites, and the British kings and queens ARE descended from the line of David, through Judah, and can trace their lineage back from England through Scotland and Ireland, back to Jerusalem.

The word "British" literally means "Covenant people" or "the people of the Covenant", i.e. the people ISRAEL.

It's important to remember that the United Kingdom of Israel under David and Solomon separated into two separate kingdoms under Solomon's son Rehoboam. The two southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin were the "House of Judah" (the Jews). The ten northern tribes, which greatly outnumbered the two southern tribes, were the "House of Israel", retaining the NAME Israel.

There is not one single reference anywhere in Scripture before or after Israel split into two separate kingdoms where the 12-tribed United Kingdom of Israel or the 10-tribed "House of Israel" are referred to as "the Jews". Not one.

That designation ONLY applied to the "House of Judah", which then started the organized religion of Talmudic Judaism in Babylon (when they were there in captivity under Nebuchadnezzar) which likewise referred to themselves as "Jews", even though many of them were NOT racial Jews (but were in fact Babylonians or of mixed race).

Of course Talmudic Judaism went through two more mass conversions (c. 100-150 BC and 700-800 AD) further reducing the number of true racial Jews to a small remnant, exactly as prophesied (Mic. 4:7, Isa. 37:31-32, Zeph. 2:7, Matt. 21:19, Rev. 7:5, 8). In fact, most true racial Jews converted to Christianity long ago.

That's why it's so amazing that these counterfeit Jews (Ashkenazis which, by their own admission, make up 95% or more of the "Jews" today and are neither racial Jews nor even Semites) have been able to CON so many people into thinking that they somehow represent all of Israel, while still referring to themselves as "the Jews".

One has to wonder if the Ashkenazis themselves are ignorant of the fact that the "House of Israel" can NEVER be Jewish, or are they counting on everyone else being so ignorant of the Scriptures that they can get away with such an obvious deception?

It's interesting to note that 1260 years is about the time span of muslim rule in Jerusalem.
Exactly. 1260 years to the day before the British Israelites liberated Jerusalem from the Turkish Edomite Muslims is 657 AD, when the Muslims moved into Jerusalem and began construction of their mosque on the Temple Mount.


That is propaganda.
No, it is a historical fact.

Jews are back just as foretold by Jesus.
Jesus told His Disciples that when they saw the "Fig-Tree" put forth new shoots/leaves in the LAND of Israel (1948) that it would mark His Return. Jesus did NOT say the people Israel (the Israelites) would return. That's why the fake Jews call themselves "Israelis". They know they are not true Israelites.

Jeremiah 24:1-5
24:1 The "I AM" showed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs [were] set before the Temple of the "I AM", after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.
24:2 One basket [had] very good figs (those true Jews who kept The Commandments), [even] like the figs [that are] first ripe: and the other basket [had] very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad (the fake Jews who started their evil organized religion of Talmudic Judaism in Babylon).
24:3 Then said the "I AM" unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.
24:4 Again the Word of the "I AM" came unto me, saying,
24:5 Thus saith the "I AM", the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for [their] good.

Now one day after jewish independence day the arab armies attacked the newborn state and lost. The hope of the world was that the arabs would be successful and so finalise the final solution begun by Hitler and the nazis... but Isarel was still standing. A handful of Holocaust survivors beat the arab armies... again and again and again....
Perhaps the irony is it was the AshkeNAZIS (counterfeit Jews) that fought under Hitler in WW2, murdering both their own and Christians, but more of the latter than the former.

Hitler himself was the illegitimate grandson of an Ashkenazi Rothschild.
 






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TokiEl

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OK...

In the interests of reasoned discussion, is there a Christian minister you find yourself in unity with who expresses your position in such a way others can engage with? Would you put yourself in John McArthurs camp on the “Lordship Salvation” question?

It is Jesus Christ who paid the price for our sins who has the authority and power to forgive sins.

And that's what salvation is all about... to be forgiven by God.


How do we move God to forgive us ? What sort of persons receive forgiveness from God ?
 






TokiEl

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No, the Gentiles (foreigners) are those who are not ISRAELITES.

There are only two groups of people in the New Testament... jews and gentiles.


Acts 26 17‘I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,

Acts 26 23“that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

Rom 3 29Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
 






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I love those verses, but the one thing they never acknowledged is, a born again believer receives the Holy Spirit that he himself experiences. That is a permanent possession. no doubt that we struggle with the flesh, Paul makes that clear in Romans Chapter 7, but He gives the glories answer of those born of the Holy Spirit. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Romans Chapter 8. Those who add works plus Jesus Christ have never meet the Lord personally. I know I am secure, but I never feel worthy.
 






floss

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Those who add works plus Jesus Christ have never meet the Lord personally. I know I am secure, but I never feel worthy.
Very well put Sir. I believe it's essentially boiled down to this. Most people need to "feel worthy" to be accounted righteously. Thus adding themself into the works of the Holy Spirit. If they want to work for their salvation, the Holy Spirit have no choice but respect their free will and they will be judge according to their works which will be hopelessness. I'm the same way as you, met the Lord personally and never feel worthy to be saved. Praised the Lord for His Mercy
 






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Very well put Sir. I believe it's essentially boiled down to this. Most people need to "feel worthy" to be accounted righteously. Thus adding themself into the works of the Holy Spirit. If they want to work for their salvation, the Holy Spirit have no choice but respect their free will and they will be judge according to their works which will be hopelessness. I'm the same way as you, met the Lord personally and never feel worthy to be saved. Praised the Lord for His Mercy
Amen.
 






phipps

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I love those verses, but the one thing they never acknowledged is, a born again believer receives the Holy Spirit that he himself experiences. That is a permanent possession. no doubt that we struggle with the flesh, Paul makes that clear in Romans Chapter 7, but He gives the glories answer of those born of the Holy Spirit. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Romans Chapter 8. Those who add works plus Jesus Christ have never meet the Lord personally. I know I am secure, but I never feel worthy.
You've got to understand the correlation between grace and works. One doesn't cancel out the other. We are saved by grace but that doesn't mean we break the law (Romans 6:1-2). When we have salvation, we love God. We are supposed to love Him with all our hearts, minds and souls. So when we love God like that we are obedient to Him.

God's grace it leads us to obedience. Hence our works of obedience are evidence of grace at work.

Romans 1:5, "Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name."

We are saved by grace and not by works, but still we find God creating good works in us at the scene of grace.

Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Living soberly, righteously, godly lives zealous of good works, is evidence that grace has been here. If we trust God we will obey Him. So our works of obedience are presented as evidence in the judgment that we trust God’s amazing grace.

Titus 2:11-14, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."


There is a reason why there are record books in heaven that everyone will be judged by. There is a book of life that has all the names of the saved. The Bible tells us names can be removed from from that book (Exodus 32:32-33; Psalm 69:28, Daniel 7:9-10; 12:1-2). Only the names of those who have fallen from grace will be erased from that book (Revelation 3:5; 20:12, 15). How do people fall from grace? By not having faith in God any more and disobeying God and that will be seen through their works. They no longer trust in God's grace.

We will be judged by our works because they are the evidence of if we accepted God's free gift of salvation.

2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

Revelation 20:12, "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."


Lastly the Bible says in James 1:22-27, "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." Its important to hear the Word of God but we have to put into action. That is works.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Works And Fruits: Untangling The Gospel From Everything Else

50EAEB04-EC49-4935-BAFF-0CF6B9C5566C.jpeg

It is increasingly hard to have a conversation about the good works of the believer, because in these last days the enemy has twisted works and fruits all up in the message of the cross. More often than not, the sound preaching of the true gospel is replaced by the cacophony of false gospel teaching and doctrines of demons who teach that works are involved in the salvation process, or that works are guaranteed evidence someone is truly saved. This is error.

A great article:-

 






TokiEl

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There are a lot of theological traps... since salvation is so simple.

God said the soul who sins shall die... if sins are not atoned by blood.


Luke 24 44Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.



Can anybody after being found guilty of a crime in a court of law proclaim repentance and walk out as a free man ? No of course not !

Only God accepts our repentance and adopts us as sons because of the sufficient sacrifice for sins by His only begotten Son.


How does an adopted son of God act ? How does a prince of Heaven behave ?
 






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phipps

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Works And Fruits: Untangling The Gospel From Everything Else

View attachment 31738

It is increasingly hard to have a conversation about the good works of the believer, because in these last days the enemy has twisted works and fruits all up in the message of the cross. More often than not, the sound preaching of the true gospel is replaced by the cacophony of false gospel teaching and doctrines of demons who teach that works are involved in the salvation process, or that works are guaranteed evidence someone is truly saved. This is error.

A great article:-

This article is basically preaching osas. I will put parts of the article in quotes.

I’ll say it again. That which is born of God cannot sin. (1 John 3:9, NKJV) Therefore, it cannot die.
After you’ve been born again, your salvation is assured because, remember, you have become a child of God that cannot sin. You have become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor. 5:21) However, your flesh was not born again. Your flesh still sins. Jesus did not save your flesh and your flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 15:50) Your flesh does not have eternal life, but YOU do. This is why your flesh will die or be changed in the twinkling of an eye. Corruption will put on incorruption, mortality will put on immortality, and you’ll get a glorified body to go with the new nature that is born of the Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:50-58)
This is not biblical. Once we are born again we still have free will. Just because we were once saved doesn’t mean we can’t turn from God later, in the same way that a couple who once loved each other enough to marry later made choices that led to divorce. Jesus told the parable of the sower in which He compared a man sowing seed to the effect that God’s Word has on our hearts. He said, “But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles” (Matthew 13:20-21). People can “fall away” from God through choice, pressure, carelessness etc. Though God draws us to Himself and will do everything He can to keep us close to Him, He won’t force us to stay. But those who do stay close to God live happier, more confident lives than those who don’t.

The Bible tells us then what happens to those who were once saved then walk away.

Ezekiel 18:24, “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die."

Hebrews 10:26-28, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

2 Peter 2:20--22, "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

These verses and more, let us know that people can be saved and go back to a life of sin. It says its like a dog returning to its own vomit. Very strong words. So is the Bible contradicting itself?

Until that happens, you need to consider yourself dead to sin, because you are a born again child of God walking around in a carcass that is unprofitable and has no good thing in it.
(John 6:63, Rom. 6:10-12, Rom. 7:18)

What happens AFTER you’re born again determines many things, both earthly and heavenly, but has no bearing on your eternal destination. But to avoid error, you must understand the distinction between being born and living out your life. This seems like stating the obvious, I know, but there are many teaching a false gospel message that tells otherwise. Being born is a one-time event. Living your life is a lifelong event that can only happen AFTER you are born. And you cannot do anything to help yourself be “more born.” You cannot become “more saved.” You being born again is “not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:13)
If we change our minds and go back to a life of sin which can happen as the above scripture says, then our eternal destination changes unless we repent our sin and go back to submitting and obeying God. Our names can be taken out of the book of life as I posted in the previous post. Being born again is definitely not a one time event, not according to God's Word.

Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." That means those who reject being led by the Spirit are not the sons of God. This can happen after they are saved because we are still always free to walk out and go our own way. We were not created as robots, and we never will be robots. We will always have free choice. After we are born again we have to obey God's will continuously like Jesus who is our example.

So after you’re born again, you can take any questions or doubts about your salvation and eternal security off the table because 1) your flesh is the part that sins (1 John 1:8-10) and Jesus didn’t die for your flesh, but 2) He did die for you and once you’re a born again child of God, you cannot sin, (1 John 3:9, NKJV) which means you cannot die. Sin dwells in your flesh, but this is not YOU. (Rom. 7:17-20) His seed remains in you (1 John 3:9, NKJV) and He is not going to dig His seed back out of you. You have passed from death to life. (John 5:24) You are IN CHRIST. (Col. 3:2-4) You can KNOW that you have eternal life (1 John 5:10-13) and can move on into actually living an eternally-secure-forever life.
How can any Christian say this when its the direct opposite of what the Bible teaches? How can anyone have eternal life while wilfully sinning? While breaking God's commandments? If Sin dwells in your flesh, it is you!

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

Galatians 5:24, "And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

John 8:10-11, "When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

1 John 2:4, "He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Do good works prove that someone has truly been born again?
No. (2 Cor. 11:14-15, Matt. 7:21-23)

Can someone who professes faith in Christ’s death and resurrection not have visible “fruit,” and yet be truly saved? Yes, because fruit is not a requirement or guarantee of salvation. (Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5) Eternal life is a guarantee of salvation. Fruit happens when a believer abides in the vine, keeps His commandments and becomes a disciple. (John 15:1-17) Sadly, not everyone does this.
When God’s Spirit comes into a person’s life then it inevitably produces the fruit of a good character. Their lives will shift in the direction of “love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control” (Galatians 5:22-23). When we are saved we love Christ and want to do His will. He said, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love" (John 15:10). It starts from the heart that Christ sits in then we see the works outwardly. No one who is saved can have faith and not works. You have to have both unless they die immediately after they were saved like the thief on the cross.

Some walk in the flesh as carnal babes in Christ. (1 Cor. 3:1 NKJV, Rom. 8:5-11, Gal. 5) They shouldn't, but they do.
Can a saved person with a growing relationship with God not have fruit? If a Christian is not growing in Christ they are in spiritual decline. When we first come to Christ we are new born again Christians. But like babies, we must grow. “But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18). Peter says we grow in grace and knowledge.

Aren’t we supposed to look for the fruits in someone’s life to know if they are really saved?
NO. First of all, the passage that says “by their fruit you will know them” (Matt. 7:15-20) refers to false prophets, not Christians. Second, the fruit in that passage is doctrine. It’s not behavior, deeds, actions or works. (Matt. 12:33-35, Luke 6:44-45.)
Is this the only scripture that talks about fruits in people's lives? Paul talks about the fruits of the spirit and I posted this scripture above. That does not refer to false prophets or doctrine. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law" (Galatians 5:22-23). When our lives are transformed by God we are obedient to Him. We obey His commandments naturally with no problem and we bear the fruit of the Spirit. That is works.

Can an unsaved person be loving, faithful, and kind, and exhibit many good fruits?
Yes. Many philanthropists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, activists, and Mother Teresa types abound in more good works than some Christians. My thought is that many of them are trying to justify themselves (prove their goodness without trusting the righteousness of Christ) and thus abound in good deeds.
True. Unsaved people can do good works but what is the difference between their good works and those of a saved person? Well for one, they don't have faith. The Bible tells us we can't please God without faith. Secondly their works are not the fruit of the Spirit. We all have the capacity to do good whether we are saved or not, but are we doing good works because we love God? Are these works the fruit of the Spirit? If we do works from any other motive, its unacceptable.

Can a saved person fail at all of that?
Yes.

Now that we are born again, should we have good works? Should we walk in holiness? Should we purify ourselves and, with the help of the Holy Spirit who indwells us, walk in the Spirit, deny the flesh, and forsake sin?

YES and YES and YES x infinity! (2 Cor. 5:14-15, Rom. 12:1-2, 1 Cor. 6:12-20, 1 John 3:2-4)
How can a saved person fail at having good fruit? Salvation is a gift of God but we do good because we are saved. We cannot fail and we will have the proof of God's power working in us. We will have the fruit of the Spirit. God's plan for those who are saved and love Him is clear, “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10).

It all comes back to the love of God. “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15) He doesn't force either the loving or the obedience.
True, we have to choose to obey and submit to Him because of our free will.

The only command that affects our salvation is to believe the gospel.
This is not from the Word of God. Believing is not enough. James 2:19 says, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!" Believing is important but we have to have more or we are not any different to the demons are we? Peter sums up the process of growing to spiritual maturity in 2 Peter 1:3-11.

The Bible plainly teaches the steps to salvation. Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. These stages are gradual and connected. Accepting Christ as our personal Saviour and being baptised today is just a step in our life long spiritual walk.

But someone who has been transformed by a revelation of God's grace, in whom the Holy Spirit is not quenched (1 Thess. 5:19), who longs to serve the One who, while we were yet sinners, loved us and died for us (Rom. 5:8), has been given the sweetest calling for their lives.
Agree but its important to understand that works and fruits of the Spirit are the same thing and when we are saved and grow in Christ they are the outer signs of our faith.

This article has twisted and misrepresented the Word of God. When we come to Christ and accept Him as our personal Saviour, that doesn't mean that no matter what we do we are still saved. Only those that do God's will have eternal life. If we sin wilfully and not repent and turn from our sins (Acts 3:19, 1 Corinthians 10:13, 2 Corinthians 5:17, James 4:7, 1 John 3:6-7), we will not be saved. God does not compromise with sin. That is why Jesus had to die on the cross for our sins. He had to die in our place so we would not die eternally if we accept Him. Sin is horrible, and we have a reminder of its consequences when see what it did to Jesus. Many Christians who believe in osas are out there believing no matter what they do they are secure in their salvation. Many of then will be shocked when Jesus says to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" Matthew 7:23.
 






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TokiEl

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Phipps is on this point pretty much aligned with me... which means she is right.
 






Kung Fu

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As I'm reading through this thread I see the typical responses. Someone comes on here and states that simply believing in Jesus isn't enough seeing as believing in Jesus dying for your sins is not a license to sin. Then the typical Evangelical group struts in and start posting verses by Paul.

A special group on here want to have a license to sin all thanks to Jesus but then quote Paul lol.
 






floss

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Many of then will be shocked when Jesus says to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" Matthew 7:23.
Why not quote all the surrounding verses??? Clearly you are blind to the truth and cannot understand scripture in it full context. Jesus will say "depart from me" to those who bring works to Him thinking that's what going to save them. And OBVIOUSLY the WILL of the Father is NOT prophesied/cast out devils/wonderful works in his name. So I wonder what exactly is the WILL OF THE FATHER? Hmmm...

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? (WORKS) and in thy name have cast out devils? (WORKS) and in thy name done many (WONDERFUL WORKS?) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJVA‬‬

Since you are preaching work base salvation. Let me ask how many soul have you brought to the Lord? Have you done enough to enter the gate of heaven? Do you personally believe you can lose your salvation in the future? yes YOU.

Always meant to ask you this about King David's salvation progress. Did he got saved earlier in him life, and then lost it when he commit adultery/murder, and then got it back after he repented?
 






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phipps

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@floss

Why not quote all the surrounding verses??? Clearly you are blind to the truth and cannot understand scripture in it full context. Jesus will say "depart from me" to those who bring works to Him thinking that's what going to save them. And OBVIOUSLY the WILL of the Father is NOT prophesied/cast out devils/wonderful works in his name. So I wonder what exactly is the WILL OF THE FATHER? Hmmm...

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? (WORKS) and in thy name have cast out devils? (WORKS) and in thy name done many (WONDERFUL WORKS?) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJVA‬‬
So now I'm not quoting all scripture but its okay for you to completely ignore all scripture that makes it clear osas is not biblical?

Do you think those people who Jesus will tell to depart from Him won't involve people who thought they were saved but continued in sin because of false doctrines? They will think they were saved even though they sinned here and there but they went to Church. They prophesied in God's name and did man wonderful works. He will tell those people to depart from Him too. Do you think I came to the conclusion of what I posted just based on this scripture? Have I not shown you more scripture that aligns with this?

Can I ask why you ignore scripture that is plain and teaches we can lose salvation? Do you pick and choose what scripture you believe based on the doctrines you've been taught? Don't you want to know what God wants of us directly from His Word? There is no eternal security in the Bible at all unless scripture is misinterpreted which osas does.

Since you are preaching work base salvation. Let me ask how many soul have you brought to the Lord? Have you done enough to enter the gate of heaven? Do you personally believe you can lose your salvation in the future? yes YOU.
This is not about me. Its not a contest on whose a better Christian either. This is about the truth of God's Word. As Christians we have to preach the truth of God's Word no matter what. The truth is not popular and is rejected by most Christians too. We are not supposed to mix truth and error.

Yes I believe I can lose my Salvation, anyone can, if they stop doing God's will, if they stop listening to the Holy Spirit. This is what the Bible says. Do you think my beliefs differ from what I post here? They don't. I will repost the scripture you keep ignoring again.

Ezekiel 18:24, “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die."

Hebrews 10:26-28, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

2 Peter 2:20--22, "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

These scriptures above make it clear a saved person can lose their salvation. Just because you accepted Christ as your personal Saviour and got baptised doesn't mean you're secure eternally. You begin your Christian journey in Christ for life and many people get off that road and go back to a life of sin. There are conditions for being secure in our Salvation. Salvation is a free gift but it has conditions.

Osas is wrong and false. Why would Jesus die on the cross if it was not to save us from our sins? We will not go to heaven unless we live according to God's standards (the ten commandments). The good news is that redemption has been made possible through the cross for those who have through rebellion, separated themselves from Him. Our salvation is lost if we don't hold fast to what we believe and receive (1 Corinthians15:1-2). Hebrews 3:14 also states it very clearly that we can only continue as partakers of Messiah if we hold fast our confidence and our faith firmly until the end. Other scriptures clearly state that after we have been grafted in we can still be cut off unless we continue to walk in faith and obedience. Being saved is like marriage. It requires commitment from both parties. God is always committed but people aren't.

Always meant to ask you this about King David's salvation progress. Did he got saved earlier in him life, and then lost it when he commit adultery/murder, and then got it back after he repented?
Yes. David's sins were wilful. He planned his sins. He planned to have Bathsheba as his wife and in order to do that, he had her husband killed. And he did not repent until the prophet Nathan pointed out his sin. If David had died without repenting, he would not have been saved. When David understood the gravity of his sin, he had enough grief and guilt to last a lifetime. His sorrow led him to write Psalms 51 in which he pleads for a clean heart and the restoration of his relationship with God.
 






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