הַנְּפִלִ֞ים - The Nephilim

Red Sky at Morning

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Hi Red, It was the constant belief of the antiquities of the Jew that the "Sons of God" were rebelled angels (Josephus) Antiquities of The Jews Vol. II page 73. While interesting, The Lord has through vision and communication, shown me that Christ is all I (we) need. We are to preach, teach Jesus Christ and the Gospel of the Kingdom. (Rom. 1:1-6; Acts 1:8; 4:2; 8:5; 12; 9:20; 19:8; 20:22-27)
I completely agree - Genesis 6 keeps things sketchy for a reason, I think!

I am in total agreement with you - the Gospel is the only message I really care about too, as it is the only truth that can truly help anyone.
 

elsbet

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@Douglas Summers

"The Lord has through vision and communication, shown me that Christ is all I (we) need."

The Word of God is not divined.

The simplicity of the Gospel speaks directly to the heart-- special visions are not necessary. I hope that is not what you are suggesting.. ?

"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart
." HEBREWS 4:12

And I admit, I am leery of anyone who suggests that I refrain from any part of the bible.

It is the filter through which I test all things.

I will watch carefully I pray for those who might cosign my fears with the censure due a small child, thanks. The entire book of Revelation aside, the material in the bible on the end times runs throughout-- the study of it is eschatology. And non-canonical material is not necessary for this study, mind you. Even the Baptists are delving into and finding the Truth of this subject in the bible.


Dr. Gene Kim, everyone. ^^ He has another video denouncing Enoch.. all of this comes directly from the bible.

Love this guy :D
 
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The Word of God is not divined.

The simplicity of the Gospel speaks directly to the heart-- special visions are not necessary. I hope that is not what you are suggesting.. ?
Hi elsbet, No, I was not suggesting it takes visions to believe the Gospel, The Lord gave me a specific vision and explanation to a question I asked Him personally. It was the only vision I had, and it answered my question completely. I think I wrote about that vision when I first joined the VC Forum. But I do believe that the Scriptures are divine in their original Script.
 

elsbet

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Hi elsbet, No, I was not suggesting it takes visions to believe the Gospel, The Lord gave me a specific vision and explanation to a question I asked Him personally. It was the only vision I had, and it answered my question completely. I think I wrote about that vision when I first joined the VC Forum. But I do believe that the Scriptures are divine in their original Script.
Hi, Douglas.

Indeed, they are God-breathed.. wholly divine.

I was speaking of the (dark) art of divination.. it is not something we need to engage in to find the intent of God, thankfully.

And thank you for the clarification. Unfortunately, I dont remember your post about the question you asked of God, or the following vision you received, I'm sorry.

There is no question that Christ is all that is necessary for our salvation. But I do wonder why we would be encouraged to disregard the rest. It doesn't sit right with me.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…"

If these sections* (GENESIS 6, NUM 13, 2 SAMUEL 23, ISAIAH 13, JUDE 1) were unnecessary, or unimportant, they would not have been included. But they were included. :)

* EDITED FOR CLARITY.
 
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Thunderian

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There is no question that Christ is all that is necessary for our salvation. But I do wonder why we would be encouraged to disregard the rest. It doesn't sit right with me.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…"

If this section were unnecessary, or unimportant, it would not have been included. But it was included. :)
I agree wholeheartedly. Why would anyone discourage study of the Bible? My wife and I were talking today about our pastor's repeated disparagement of those who know the Bible. It's baffling. If it's in the Bible, it's meant to be studied.

Romans 15:4 - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.​
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I agree wholeheartedly. Why would anyone discourage study of the Bible? My wife and I were talking today about our pastor's repeated disparagement of those who know the Bible. It's baffling. If it's in the Bible, it's meant to be studied.

Romans 15:4 - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.​
The way I see it is that the Lord has different purposes for each of us. Perhaps some people are best away from politics, others from understanding Occult symbolism etc. Each of us have got a calling and a focus and for some this will mean leaving off certain investigations.

Apologies for rambling a bit but perhaps I might make sense after a couple of reads through ;-)
 

Thunderian

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The way I see it is that the Lord has different purposes for each of us. Perhaps some people are best away from politics, others from understanding Occult symbolism etc. Each of us have got a calling and a focus and for some this will mean leaving off certain investigations.

Apologies for rambling a bit but perhaps I might make sense after a couple of reads through ;-)
I completely agree that some lines of study are not for everyone, but I am referring strictly to studies contained in the Bible. There are innumerable topics you can delve deeply into with just a King James Bible in front of you and the Spirit of God to guide you.
 

elsbet

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I agree wholeheartedly. Why would anyone discourage study of the Bible? My wife and I were talking today about our pastor's repeated disparagement of those who know the Bible. It's baffling. If it's in the Bible, it's meant to be studied.

Romans 15:4 - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.​
Your pastor? Did he have any kind of rationale for that? I understand that pastors-- aka Shepherds-- are consumed with the task of keeping the flock on course... oftentimes just keeping people 'in the Light' is a task in itself.

But discouraging study would hardly interfere-- unless he wants to be the only one to impart the knowledge. Or.. His way is the Right way / Only way.. control issues. :rolleyes:

The body of Christ is made of many parts.

:)
 

Thunderian

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Your pastor? Did he have any kind of rationale for that? I understand that pastors-- aka Shepherds-- are consumed with the task of keeping the flock on course... oftentimes just keeping people 'in the Light' is a task in itself.

But discouraging study would hardly interfere-- unless he wants to be the only one to impart the knowledge. Or.. His way is the Right way / Only way.. control issues. :rolleyes:

The body of Christ is made of many parts.

:)
He has, many times, let us know that some of the most knowledgeable about the Bible are the least spiritual. I understand that, and tend to agree, but at the same time, why tell us this over and over and over again? He's also pushed back pretty firmly when my wife and I were wanting to teach the kids in our Sunday School classes anything other than the pre-packaged lesson plans. His own sermons are pretty basic and he is very careful to not venture into any topics that are deeper than what you might find in a tract.

Thankfully, the internet is a thing, I have plenty of good teachers to choose from, and my work allows me to listen to podcasts pretty much all day long. Our pastor is a good man, and we are grateful for our church and the people there. It's just kind of baffling that he seems to be against studies of scripture that are outside his own comfort zone.
 

elsbet

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He has, many times, let us know that some of the most knowledgeable about the Bible are the least spiritual. I understand that, and tend to agree, but at the same time, why tell us this over and over and over again? He's also pushed back pretty firmly when my wife and I were wanting to teach the kids in our Sunday School classes anything other than the pre-packaged lesson plans. His own sermons are pretty basic and he is very careful to not venture into any topics that are deeper than what you might find in a tract.

Thankfully, the internet is a thing, I have plenty of good teachers to choose from, and my work allows me to listen to podcasts pretty much all day long. Our pastor is a good man, and we are grateful for our church and the people there. It's just kind of baffling that he seems to be against studies of scripture that are outside his own comfort zone.
Hmm.. if you were in the US, I would say that he's afraid of rocking the boat and losing members (and their financial support). I dont know how it works where you are.

But it is not like learning more will cause one to be less spiritual-- quite the opposite.

Those who know it strictly from an academic perspective, as Red pointed out in another thread, seem to be the ones who fall into that category. :/
 
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I dont remember your post about the question you asked of God, or the following vision you received, I'm sorry.
Here is the question I asked God and how He answered. I was driving to work one morning about 3:00 A.M., And as a young Christian, I asked God, who was most important and who should I pray to, Jesus or the Father...……...Immediately I was standing outside of what looked like an Army barracks, looking through the window at rows of beds with sick people in each bed. They had some kind of sickness that there was no cure for. Some were close to death and others had just caught the disease. I remember feeling panicky for there was no cure. (it was like the time when legionaries Disease was discovered back in the 80's that at first they did not know what it was and everyone that had it was dying.)
When I looked to the right, inside the room, in walked this tall doctor, clothed in white, and said, "I have a cure for your sickness" and set the cure on the table for the sick and dying on the table. Those that could get out of bed got on their hands and knees and began to praise the Doctor. And they would turn to those who were sick and ready to die and said, "look what this Doctor has done for us, He has given us a cure for our sickness," And I noticed they went on and on with continual praise to the doctor time after time. Then God asked me, "WHAT DO YOU SEE?" And as I looked around I noticed....no one was taking the medicine! And He said to me, "This is the way it is. ,"They praise me, but they don't take the medicine," God is one, and the cure is in His son, and we must take the medicine inside us to be saved.. After this I realized I was down the road 20 miles or so and did not remember driving.
In His Eternal Mercy and Grace,
Douglas Summers
 

Thunderian

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Hmm.. if you were in the US, I would say that he's afraid of rocking the boat and losing members (and their financial support). I dont know how it works where you are.
It's a very small church, and all of us are familiar enough with the Bible that he could take the training wheels off. I think that somewhere in his life he got the idea that deeper studies in scripture should be avoided.

He just started a two month series on "Getting Along". :rolleyes:
 

elsbet

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Here is the question I asked God and how He answered. I was driving to work one morning about 3:00 A.M., And as a young Christian, I asked God, who was most important and who should I pray to, Jesus or the Father...……...Immediately I was standing outside of what looked like an Army barracks, looking through the window at rows of beds with sick people in each bed. They had some kind of sickness that there was no cure for. Some were close to death and others had just caught the disease. I remember feeling panicky for there was no cure. (it was like the time when legionaries Disease was discovered back in the 80's that at first they did not know what it was and everyone that had it was dying.)
When I looked to the right, inside the room, in walked this tall doctor, clothed in white, and said, "I have a cure for your sickness" and set the cure on the table for the sick and dying on the table. Those that could get out of bed got on their hands and knees and began to praise the Doctor. And they would turn to those who were sick and ready to die and said, "look what this Doctor has done for us, He has given us a cure for our sickness," And I noticed they went on and on with continual praise to the doctor time after time. Then God asked me, "WHAT DO YOU SEE?" And as I looked around I noticed....no one was taking the medicine! And He said to me, "This is the way it is. ,"They praise me, but they don't take the medicine," God is one, and the cure is in His son, and we must take the medicine inside us to be saved.. After this I realized I was down the road 20 miles or so and did not remember driving.
In His Eternal Mercy and Grace,
Douglas Summers
Thank you, Douglas Summers :)
 

elsbet

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It's a very small church, and all of us are familiar enough with the Bible that he could take the training wheels off. I think that somewhere in his life he got the idea that deeper studies in scripture should be avoided.

He just started a two month series on "Getting Along". :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: How very avoidant. I will say a little prayer in your direction.
 

Ex-arianator4

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He has, many times, let us know that some of the most knowledgeable about the Bible are the least spiritual. I understand that, and tend to agree, but at the same time, why tell us this over and over and over again? He's also pushed back pretty firmly when my wife and I were wanting to teach the kids in our Sunday School classes anything other than the pre-packaged lesson plans. His own sermons are pretty basic and he is very careful to not venture into any topics that are deeper than what you might find in a tract.

Thankfully, the internet is a thing, I have plenty of good teachers to choose from, and my work allows me to listen to podcasts pretty much all day long. Our pastor is a good man, and we are grateful for our church and the people there. It's just kind of baffling that he seems to be against studies of scripture that are outside his own comfort zone.
Hello there! I could relate so hard to your post that I can't just read it without replying and telling you my own story.
For the background, I'm a pastor's kid and I attend my father's church. While I love the members, I agree that the teaching is not what it should be.
I've tried talking to my parents about conspiracies, about the Illuminati and stuff but all they do is tell me that 'it's better to stay in the simplicity of the Gospel' and avoid this deep stuff because it's a 'mystery' and that there's a reason we don't know everything.
They have actually told me to promise them I'd stop reading conspiracy theories. They always tell me that I should stay away from satanic things and when I tell them that these theories are written and discussed by fellow Christians, they get angry!

Truth is that before opening our church, we've been in churches that preached heavily about Revelation, the end times, Antichrist and Mark of the Beast and they didn't like it because they enjoy the simpler stuff like 'love God, love your neighbor, be quick to forgive' etc.

I get where your pastor is coming from, because I've seen a lot of truthers that know what's going to happen soon but they also don't talk to their family members and gossip about church members. So I guess he's not completely wrong.
Still, there's nothing wrong with knowing and learning more (that is, if you can handle the truth and you're not easily scared)
 

Thunderian

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Hello there! I could relate so hard to your post that I can't just read it without replying and telling you my own story.
For the background, I'm a pastor's kid and I attend my father's church. While I love the members, I agree that the teaching is not what it should be.
I've tried talking to my parents about conspiracies, about the Illuminati and stuff but all they do is tell me that 'it's better to stay in the simplicity of the Gospel' and avoid this deep stuff because it's a 'mystery' and that there's a reason we don't know everything.
They have actually told me to promise them I'd stop reading conspiracy theories. They always tell me that I should stay away from satanic things and when I tell them that these theories are written and discussed by fellow Christians, they get angry!

Truth is that before opening our church, we've been in churches that preached heavily about Revelation, the end times, Antichrist and Mark of the Beast and they didn't like it because they enjoy the simpler stuff like 'love God, love your neighbor, be quick to forgive' etc.

I get where your pastor is coming from, because I've seen a lot of truthers that know what's going to happen soon but they also don't talk to their family members and gossip about church members. So I guess he's not completely wrong.
Still, there's nothing wrong with knowing and learning more (that is, if you can handle the truth and you're not easily scared)
I'm a pastor's kid, too! I grew up listening to my dad preach, and like yours, he gave a pretty wide berth to anything other than the basics.

There's nothing wrong with the basics. We're saved by a simple faith in Jesus Christ and his completed work for us. If that's the only part of the Bible people read, it's enough.

But there is so much more. Jesus didn't just walk around going, "Yea, believe in me." He spoke of every topic in the Bible that you can imagine.
 

Ex-arianator4

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I'm a pastor's kid, too! I grew up listening to my dad preach, and like yours, he gave a pretty wide berth to anything other than the basics.

There's nothing wrong with the basics. We're saved by a simple faith in Jesus Christ and his completed work for us. If that's the only part of the Bible people read, it's enough.

But there is so much more. Jesus didn't just walk around going, "Yea, believe in me." He spoke of every topic in the Bible that you can imagine.
In fact I don't really care that he preaches the basics, tbh I don't believe everyone can handle the truth. And also like you, I love my church and the members are quite nice to me so that's all that matters.
We can't expect everyone to talk about conspiracies, that's an individual path that a man chooses by his own will and desire. So I guess my problem is not that we preach the basics all the time, but that people that want to know more are stopped and are told that they should stick to simpler pure stuff. (In more serious cases they're told that they're messing with the devil)
People must have the freedom to research stuff and not only listen to what the pastor teaches during the sermon.
 

elsbet

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I really don't mean to hack on the guy. He is a very admirable man of God, and he and his family have shown me and my family great love.
Didn't think you were! lol Now I feel bad :/

Maybe 'getting along' is pertinent from his standpoint... I'm sure he's frequently called to play referee. Still though-- the impasse with the bible study thing.. maybe he had a bad experience in the past, when he let someone else take the ball and run with it? Idk.. could be anything.

Ime when someone doesn't want to look at something, biblically speaking, it seems to be because they struggle with it, themselves. But again, that's my experience. I have been known to send youtube videos via email, myself-- but I'm pushy like that. :D So fine then, you pray about it and I'll agree on my end-- because complacency happens, often in good, bible believing churches-- and frankly, he'll need it if he decides to go there.

Even in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus warns about false prophets in sheep's clothing-- people need to hear that stuff.. especially these days. I mean, Christian yoga? That's a thing now... and people are buying it. :confused:

hey @Red Sky at Morning ... what church is the one that is too comfortable? Is it Laodicea?
 

elsbet

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Hello there! I could relate so hard to your post that I can't just read it without replying and telling you my own story.
For the background, I'm a pastor's kid and I attend my father's church. While I love the members, I agree that the teaching is not what it should be.
I've tried talking to my parents about conspiracies, about the Illuminati and stuff but all they do is tell me that 'it's better to stay in the simplicity of the Gospel' and avoid this deep stuff because it's a 'mystery' and that there's a reason we don't know everything.
They have actually told me to promise them I'd stop reading conspiracy theories. They always tell me that I should stay away from satanic things and when I tell them that these theories are written and discussed by fellow Christians, they get angry!

Truth is that before opening our church, we've been in churches that preached heavily about Revelation, the end times, Antichrist and Mark of the Beast and they didn't like it because they enjoy the simpler stuff like 'love God, love your neighbor, be quick to forgive' etc.

I get where your pastor is coming from, because I've seen a lot of truthers that know what's going to happen soon but they also don't talk to their family members and gossip about church members. So I guess he's not completely wrong.
Still, there's nothing wrong with knowing and learning more (that is, if you can handle the truth and you're not easily scared)
I wonder if that's a generational thing. Do you mind me asking your parents ages? Just roughly... thanks :)
 
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