Are Satan And Lucifer The Same Being?

bfisher10011 · Sep 23, 2017

Lucifer is the christian god you worship. Lucifer created this world and the reality you exist in.

Violette · Sep 23, 2017

bfisher10011 said:
Lucifer is the christian god you worship. Lucifer created this world and the reality you exist in.

Lucifer is malignant narcissist hell bent on bringing all of humanity to destruction because he can't win a battle that he could never win. He doesn't create, he destroys.

elsbet · Sep 23, 2017

Yahda said:
Of course David is a son of God psalms 89:19-20

Deuteronomy 14 God was speaking to the Hebrews, the Israelites his people

And of course the word says THERE IS NO SAVIOR, not just in Hosea. So no matter how you spin it THERE IS NO SAVIOR BESIDES GOD. It's says it all through the scriptures....so for the most part we are in agreement.

We aren't, I assure you.

Adoption into sonship is not the same as one who is begotten.

JoChris · Sep 24, 2017

bfisher10011 said:
Lucifer is the christian god you worship. Lucifer created this world and the reality you exist in.

Bible book, chapter and verse where it says that please.

elsbet · Sep 24, 2017

JoChris said:
Bible book, chapter and verse where it says that please.

I'm interested, too. It isn't just the Gnostics who are pushing this idea, anymore. :/

JoChris · Sep 25, 2017

elsbet said:
I'm interested, too. It isn't just the Gnostics who are pushing this idea, anymore. :/

He (?) won't respond. He knows he will find no such bible verse.
Any teaching that suggests Lucifer = Christian God is extreme heresy or propaganda of an anti-Christian belief system.

elsbet · Sep 25, 2017

JoChris said:
He (?) won't respond. He knows he will find no such bible verse.
Any teaching that suggests Lucifer = Christian God is extreme heresy or propaganda of an anti-Christian belief system.

Heresy, yes. Unfortunately, people are coming up all over the place with material that sounds viable to the unfamiliar. Even those who present themselves as Christian.

I read an article the other day by someone who is very popular in 'Truth' circles: he said that the adversary wasn't a bad guy, really; he was just "doing his job" when he singled out Job, because Job was not obeying God. Anyone who's read the book knows that Job was "perfect and upright." But this guy has a few letters after his name, so it looks like he's not being questioned, and that's a damned shame.

I'm glad you demanded proof. Everyone should.

Etagloc · Sep 25, 2017

Who I wonder about is- Prometheus. Is Prometheus the devil or is Prometheus sort of like Christ-like in a way?

That's the one I wonder about. I think it's interesting how some people associate him with Jesus and some with the devil.... what do y'all think?

I myself am not really sure either way. From what I read, he was a revolutionary who sought to liberate mankind and was punished for that reason.

Aero · Sep 25, 2017

Gnosticism doesn't promote Lucifer, nor does it have negative things to say about Christ. They just don't believe he was resurrected. In fact they don't have much to say about Christ, Satan or Lucifer at all. They taught about something called the Demiurge. Which is defined as "a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual"

And I believe they were right about a lot of things. The idea that there is this eternal battle of good vs evil going on is just an entertaining story. Considering that "good" wouldn't even exist without "evil", people are obviously just giving themselves something to occupy their thoughts. Like people aren't satisfied with their lives, so they created some grand story about a war in the stars. But such a war doesn't exist.

Everything is connected, and everything is one. The Demiurge shouldn't be considered as some sort of separate entity. But a part of the overall construct of the supreme God. A barrier through which the highest form of spirituality can be achieved. So there is no evil force out there for people to fear. There is just materialism vs spirituality.

Etagloc · Sep 25, 2017

Aero said:
Gnosticism doesn't promote Lucifer, nor does it have negative things to say about Christ. They just don't believe he was resurrected. In fact they don't have much to say about Christ, Satan or Lucifer at all. They taught about something called the Demiurge. Which is defined as "a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual"

And I believe they were right about a lot of things. The idea that there is this eternal battle of good vs evil going on is just an entertaining story. Considering that "good" wouldn't even exist without "evil", people are obviously just giving themselves something to occupy their thoughts. Like people aren't satisfied with their lives, so they created some grand story about a war in the stars. But such a war doesn't exist.

Everything is connected, and everything is one. The Demiurge shouldn't be considered as some sort of separate entity. But a part of the overall construct of the supreme God. A barrier through which the highest form of spirituality can be achieved. So there is no evil force out there for people to fear. There is just materialism vs spirituality.

So you don't pray to Lucifer?

Aero · Sep 25, 2017

Etagloc said:
So you don't pray to Lucifer?

Lol no. I don't pray period. I do the "Gnosis".

Like I don't believe whispering to myself is going to anything, besides make me feel like an idiot. I find my spiritual truth in the mysteries of the world.

Etagloc · Sep 25, 2017

Aero said:
Lol no. I don't pray period. I do the "Gnosis".

Like I don't believe whispering to myself is going to anything, besides make me feel like an idiot. I find my spiritual truth in the mysteries of the world.

Is your power level even over 9,000?

Aero · Sep 25, 2017

Etagloc said:
Is your power level even over 9,000?

We heat the block up hotter than molten lava

Etagloc · Sep 25, 2017

Aero said:
We heat the block up hotter than molten lava

*hits blunt*

Dan · Sep 25, 2017

llleopard said:
Satan was a murderer from the beginning. (John 8v44) Lucifer was Son of the Morning (Isaiah 14v 12) Are those compatible, and how does 'the Devil' fit in? Are they all the same being with different names, and if so, how?
My daughter asked me what Satan's powers were in comparison to God, and I found that I had no coherant answer in my head or reasons to back up my thoughts. Consequently I told her I wasn't sure, but went with the 'Satan is Lucifer, a fallen angel and therefore has the powers of an angel, not a god' line.
I would appreciate answers from any religious or spiritual perspective, not necessarily just Christian

In my opinion, no. Lucifer is "light bearer" bringing illumination or truth. I don't think the murder and hatred of Satan's doing is that at all.

Camidria · Sep 25, 2017

elsbet said:
I read an article the other day by someone who is very popular in 'Truth' circles: he said that the adversary wasn't a bad guy, really; he was just "doing his job"

I see the same agenda being pushed in the media as well, have you seen that series called "Lucifer"? That is exactly the kind of nonsense they push in that series, that he isn't bad at all and just doing a job. I believe when he starts showing his face for real people will love him and be so deceived!

Etagloc said:
ho I wonder about is- Prometheus. Is Prometheus the devil or is Prometheus sort of like Christ-like in a way?

In the Book of Enoch it says that the leader of the fallen angels was called Azazel, in the greek mythology he is called Prometheus, if you read the book of Enoch you'll find out exactly who he was, he together with the other fallen angels were the first ones to take human wives and through their union the Nephilim giants like Hercules was born (whose spirits we now refer to as demons). He wasn't a liberator, he taught humanity many things including how to make weapons and wage war against one another....

The greek mythology is real stories of the fallen angels and their children that has been changed a bit at the tower of Babel when people's languages were confused. The Book of Enoch tells the true accounts, read it.

JoChris · Sep 25, 2017

Aero said:
Gnosticism doesn't promote Lucifer, nor does it have negative things to say about Christ. They just don't believe he was resurrected. In fact they don't have much to say about Christ, Satan or Lucifer at all. They taught about something called the Demiurge. Which is defined as "a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual"

And I believe they were right about a lot of things. The idea that there is this eternal battle of good vs evil going on is just an entertaining story. Considering that "good" wouldn't even exist without "evil", people are obviously just giving themselves something to occupy their thoughts. Like people aren't satisfied with their lives, so they created some grand story about a war in the stars. But such a war doesn't exist.

Everything is connected, and everything is one. The Demiurge shouldn't be considered as some sort of separate entity. But a part of the overall construct of the supreme God. A barrier through which the highest form of spirituality can be achieved. So there is no evil force out there for people to fear. There is just materialism vs spirituality.

Some streams of gnosticism did exactly that. E.g. Ophites.
Here is an obvious pro-gnosticism website that does not attempt to hide its admiration of the snake and Lucifer.
Christians, please pray before you read it. Keep your bible open. I would love if other people used keyword search on www.biblegateway.com too.
http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/the-serpent-of-salvation.htm
The writer writes against the 2nd-4th century AD Christian apologists.

Here is why he does not like them. Google Ephiphanius "Against heresies". I do not want to give in my opinion an R-rated link.

JoChris · Sep 25, 2017

elsbet said:
Heresy, yes. Unfortunately, people are coming up all over the place with material that sounds viable to the unfamiliar. Even those who present themselves as Christian.

I read an article the other day by someone who is very popular in 'Truth' circles: he said that the adversary wasn't a bad guy, really; he was just "doing his job" when he singled out Job, because Job was not obeying God. Anyone who's read the book knows that Job was "perfect and upright." But this guy has a few letters after his name, so it looks like he's not being questioned, and that's a damned shame.

I'm glad you demanded proof. Everyone should.

My policy for everyone who makes wild claims is to back them into a corner.
Evidence please. If they cannot/ refuse to defend their claims they are either extremely ignorant, incredibly lazy or complete liars. They should then be ignored by all serious thinkers and those who believe they (themselves) are impartial.

Aero · Sep 25, 2017

JoChris said:
Some streams of gnosticism did exactly that. E.g. Ophites.
Here is an obvious pro-gnosticism website that does not attempt to hide its admiration of the snake and Lucifer.
Christians, please pray before you read it. Keep your bible open.
http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/the-serpent-of-salvation.htm
The writer writes against the 2nd-4th century AD Christian apologists.

Here is why he does not like them. Google Ephiphanius "Against heresies". I do not want to give in my opinion an R-rated link.

Really, you have to go pray because they think the serpent from Genesis brought salvation and not damnation? And Lucifer is just a symbol for the supreme God sending someone a message.

It's hardly scandalous. Now when you get into stuff like the 32 Gnostic statements things get way more rebellious than that. Where it says stuff like this.

9- Warriors of the Spirit loathe matter. They are indeed destroyers, but destroyers of the impure.

10- Only the absurd aspects would be destroyed, the sick part, that which imprisons the Spirit, the coffin which encases It: the body and soul of the animal wrongly called man.

11- And the day everything that is garbage is destroyed, that is to say, the day on which all creation and its creator are disintegrated, when nothing remains, not even a single atom, body or soul, only the Spirits will remain, freed forever. Now there will be no more duality and the world will go back to being one and only one: the Unknowable Eternal Fire.

JoChris · Sep 25, 2017

Aero said:
Really, you have to go pray because they think the serpent from Genesis brought salvation and not damnation? And Lucifer is just a symbol for the supreme God sending someone a message.

It's hardly scandalous. Now when you get into stuff like the 32 Gnostic statements things get way more rebellious than that. Where it says stuff like this.

9- Warriors of the Spirit loathe matter. They are indeed destroyers, but destroyers of the impure.

10- Only the absurd aspects would be destroyed, the sick part, that which imprisons the Spirit, the coffin which encases It: the body and soul of the animal wrongly called man.

11- And the day everything that is garbage is destroyed, that is to say, the day on which all creation and its creator are disintegrated, when nothing remains, not even a single atom, body or soul, only the Spirits will remain, freed forever. Now there will be no more duality and the world will go back to being one and only one: the Unknowable Eternal Fire.

That is advice especially for young/ weaker Christians who do not already have a strong faith and familiarity with the bible. I do not expect non-Christians to take that seriously.

The bible does have passages that were already dealing with early stages of Gnostic "Christianity".
E.g. description of ascetic, self-denying, punishing the flesh type: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+2:18-23&version=KJV
Description of indulging flesh " matter is evil, spirit is pure, therefore all is permitted"
http://www.theberean.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Home.showBerean/BereanID/534/1-John-3-4.htm

Clear contrast between Gnosticism and Christianity https://www.crossroad.to/charts/gnosticism.html

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