A matter of Leviticus versus Matthew

bAd

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Recently there was some dialogue between myself and the host of a channel on BitChute, which, along with a similarly Christian response, were both deleted and I'm now blocked.

The video in question showed a man being pushed (presumably to his death) from the top of a tall building. Seemingly by Muslims. His alleged crime was that he was homosexual.

After viewing, reading, and contributing in the comment section, there was a serious disconnect between my understanding of Christian values and those of the channel host.

I made it clear that I was neither religious nor atheist. But, when I pointed to the Thou Shalt Not Kill factor he/she called me a heathen. I responded by calling him/her a hypocrite.

(to avoid being overly tedious I'm going to presume he rather than she)

We entered into a Leviticus 20:13 versus Matthew 21:7 (edit: pardon the error, I meant Matthew 7:21) disagreement of thinking. He stating the former, myself the latter.

When questioned, he took the position of saying that Jesus would approve of how the allegedly homosexual man was killed. I respectfully disagreed.

I said Leviticus preceded the birth of Christ of by 5 or 6 hundred years, I've not heard of Jesus having ever killed anybody, and, throwing a man from a building didn't at all fit with what I've heard about JC.

That was the end of that conversation and the deletions / blocking occurred almost immediately.

The reason I made this post..

It irritates me that the channel in question purports to be Christian.. I want to draw attention to this and get some frustration off my chest.. plus, last not least, I'd like to consider the thoughts of others on this type of matter.

Advance thanks..
 
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A Freeman

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Recently there was some dialogue between myself and the host of a channel on BitChute, which, along with a similarly Christian response, were both deleted and I'm now blocked.

The video in question showed a man being pushed (presumably to his death) from the top of a tall building. Seemingly by Muslims. His alleged crime was that he was homosexual.

After viewing, reading, and contributing in the comment section, there was a serious disconnect between my understanding of Christian values and those of the channel host.

I made it clear that I was neither religious nor atheist. But, when I pointed to the Thou Shalt Not Kill factor he/she called me a heathen. I responded by calling him/her a hypocrite.

(to avoid being overly tedious I'm going to presume he rather than she)

We entered into a Leviticus 20:13 versus Matthew 21:7 disagreement of thinking. He stating the former, myself the latter.

When questioned, he took the position of saying that Jesus would approve of how the allegedly homosexual man was killed. I respectfully disagreed.

I said Leviticus preceded the birth of Christ of by 5 or 6 hundred years, I've not heard of Jesus having ever killed anybody, and, throwing a man from a building didn't at all fit with what I've heard about JC.

That was the end of that conversation and the deletions / blocking occurred almost immediately.

The reason I made this post..

It irritates me that the channel in question purports to be Christian.. I want to draw attention to this and get some frustration off my chest.. plus, last not least, I'd like to consider the thoughts of others on this type of matter.

Advance thanks..
Christ said, in the Gospel of Jesus as recorded by Matthew, that The National Moral Law (Torah) that God gave us via Moses on Mt. Horeb in Sinai would NEVER change, not even in the slightest way.

Matthew 5:17-18
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [i.e. to fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.

Obviously neither heaven nor earth have passed away, which means The Law is still in effect today. Truth is not some transient hypothesis that changes with the times; it is eternal and thus immutable.

The reason God gave us The Law was to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free. Free from poverty, free from oppression, free from injustice and free from crime and the demoralizing filth that goes along with it, including sexual depravity of every kind. And the COMMANDMENT from Exodus 20:13 (and Deuteronomy 5:17) is "Thou shalt not MURDER (kill un-Lawfully)". It obviously isn't "thou shalt not kill" as it has been incorrectly portrayed in many translations, or there would be no way to enforce God's Statutes and Judgments, which are part of His Perfect system of justice.

Under The Law that God gave us, homosexuality is a capital crime. It is a capital crime for GOOD reason: there simply is no other way to remove such selfish, destructive and evil, unnatural and unhealthy behavior from a healthy, civilized society.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [homosexuality] [is] abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Opening the door to tolerating the queers and sexual deviants has taken the lid right off of Pandora's box, which is why we are no seeing the massive uptick in child molestation and p***philia, with cross-dressing and gender "fluidity" and the rest of the abominable and insane behavior that is plaguing us all.

What exactly is your "Matthew 21:7 disagreement" please? Or was the point to make an ass of one's self by assuming to know better than God and Christ what is right and wrong? Please see Matthew 21:7 below.

Matthew 21:7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set [him] thereon.

People that break The Law are CRIMINALS (aka "sinners"). What NEEDS to happen to help make this world a healthy, loving, Christ-like, God-fearing place for everyone -- as it was always meant to be -- is for all of us to STOP BEING CRIMINALS.

And to do that, we all should be living by and enforcing The Law that our Creator gave us for our own benefit, free from all religious sects/affiliations or labels.

We can choose to be law-abiding citizens and live, or we can choose to continue being criminals and die in The Fire. The choice is ours to make.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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@bAd

You pose a very interesting point and I think it goes to the heart of the question - “what does God want?”

I guess you can’t even begin to answer that outside an understanding of “what is the Gospel”? I think this clip hits it pretty well…


Some people think God primarily wants people to keep His rules, and is itching to punish wrongdoing, rather like an angry, psychopathic Victorian school teacher. Others picture God‘s love trumping all other attributes, such as justice and holiness.

I have always understood God to accept us “just as we are” but loving us too much to leave us there. Jesus died to restore the broken relationship with the Father, but we need to check me to the cross on our knees in repentance (I.e. changing our mind from justifying our sin to agreeing with God about it). It doesn’t mean we won’t “fall off the wagon” and make mistakes, but I firmly believe this verse:

Philippians 1:6

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

If a homosexual comes to Jesus, change in their life is on the same terms as anyone else who comes to the Lord. Anyone who is a Christian will know the Holy Spirit will pull them up about their heart and conduct. Christians still sin after they are saved, but as they go on in relationship with the Lord, it is his “kindness that leads to repentance”.

I once knew a guy who came to my parents Bible study as a heroin addicted thief. He became a Christian and even came off heroin with no cold turkey. Everyone celebrated. A while later, something happened and he went back on the drugs. Some people wrote him off, but God continued to live this prodigal. A few years later we heard from him again and he was a Christian minister. He was doing things which offended the churchgoers, but his sin was apparent and on the outside. Many judgemental people are like the whitewashed tombs, polished on the outside and full of corruption.

We should walk our own walk, show compassion to the failings of others without condoning them, and realised that we are saved by the same grace we often deny others.
 

phipps

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You are right. Killing anyone for a sin simply because we don't like it is murder which is the breaking of the sixth commandment. The Bible says, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) and "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (John 8:7).

In the Old Testament times under God's theocracy there were death penalties for certain sins like murder, striking or cursing a parent, kidnapping and selling a person, profaning the Sabbath, child sacrifice), incest, spiritualism, blasphemy, idolatry, and premarital sex etc, and of course homosexuality. God is the one who mandated those punishments not man.

In the New Testament this does not apply to the Christian church. Jesus ended all that as proclaimed in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) and in other places (e.g. Matthew 26:52). The death penalty is no longer practised by God's people. What Jesus taught and what the church does or should do is to approach sinners and teach them about Christ. So they can repent, accept Christ as their personal Saviour, His biblical teachings and submit to Him. If a Christian in church sins and his or her fellow Christians find out about it, they are to approach them with the goal of winning them back to Christ and to accept Christ's biblical teachings. If this fails, we are to follow Jesus’ mandate in Matthew 18:15–17 which says, "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Unrepentant sinners are to be disfellowshipped from the community of believers. However, even after their separation from the church, the local congregation should reach out to win them back. They should never give up just like God never gives up on us.

Therefore the death penalty for certain sins as was done in the Old Testament was done away with. It is absolutely wrong and unlawful from a biblical perspective.
 
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A Freeman

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This is what Christ, through the mouth of Jesus actually told us about The Law/Commandments of God (and about those who preach/teach the exact opposite):-

Matthew 5:17-20
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till ALL be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of heaven {the lowest of the low in God's Eyes): but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into The Kingdom of heaven.

It should therefore be crystal clear that anyone who breaks the least of God's Commandments, or teaches others that it's okay to do so, doesn't know what they're talking about, whether they call themselves a "Christian" or a "Muslim" or a "Jew".

Christ in NO WAY did away with The Law/Commandments of God, and repeatedly made it clear that all of the man-made traditions (religious superstitions and government rule-making, etc.) was CONDEMNED by God, because all of it makes the Commandments of God of no effect.

Matthew 15:3, 7-9
15:3 But he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the COMMANDment of God by your Tradition?

15:7 [Ye] hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is FAR from me.
15:9 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men (man-made laws/legislation).

And for anyone who may be inclined to misquote Paul, and claim that Paul (a primary school student) allegedly usurped Christ (The Master/Teacher), Paul himself said that he was living by The Law (Rom. 7:25), that The Law/Commandments of God are holy just and good (Rom. 7:12), that he was establishing The Law everywhere he went (Rom. 3:31) and that only DOERS of The Law will ultimately be justified (Rom. 2:13).

Luke 10:25-28

10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit Eternal Life?
10:26 He said unto him, WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW? how readest thou?
10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt LIVE.

It should be self-evident that anyone genuinely concerned for the well-being of others would want to do everything they could to help others LIVE FOREVER, rather than enjoy some temporary, self-gratifying worldly experience that will ensure their ultimate death on Judgment Day.

Think about it.
 
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bAd

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We should walk our own walk, show compassion to the failings of others without condoning them, and realised that we are saved by the same grace we often deny others.
Therefore the death penalty for certain sins as was done in the Old Testament was done away with. It is absolutely wrong and unlawful from a biblical perspective.
What exactly is your "Matthew 21:7 disagreement" please? Or was the point to make an ass of one's self by assuming to know better than God and Christ what is right and wrong? Please see Matthew 21:7 below.
Thanks for the replies and my apologies for having mistakenly said Matthew 21:7, I meant 7:21.

@A Freeman: The disagreement had nothing to do with assuming to know better than God. It was simply that, based on what I've heard about Jesus, I didn't think He would approve of throwing that allegedly homosexual man to his death.

On the other hand, the channel host who used Leviticus to justify his claim that Jesus would have approved, even though Leviticus relates to several hundred years before Christ, in my view, could more correctly be accused of thinking he knows better than God.

As I said, the mans death didn't fit in with what I've heard about Jesus, nor have I heard of Christ killing anyone. That point, added to the fact that Leviticus preceded the birth of Christ, was the basis of the Leviticus 20:13 / Matthew 7:21 disagreement.
 
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A Freeman

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Thanks for the replies and my apologies for having mistakenly said Matthew 21:7, I meant 7:21.

@A Freeman: The disagreement had nothing to do with assuming to know better than God. It was simply that, based on what I've heard about Jesus, I didn't think He would approve of throwing that allegedly homosexual man to his death.

On the other hand, the channel host who used Leviticus to justify his claim that Jesus would have approved, even though Leviticus relates to several hundred years before Christ, in my view, could more correctly be accused of thinking he knows better than God.

As I said, the mans death didn't fit in with what I've heard about Jesus, nor have I heard of Christ killing anyone. That point, added to the fact that Leviticus preceded the birth of Christ, was the basis of the Leviticus 20:13 / Matthew 7:21 disagreement.
Thank-you.

It should be a sobering thought to correctly understand that Matthew 7:21-27 is specifically addressing "Christians". There is no other group on Earth that calls Christ "Lord" and yet refuses to do as Christ Commands, which is to keep The Law. There have been all manner of excuses and insane interpretations made pretending Christ did away with The Law, even though He plainly stated that would never happen.

Simply put, it's impossible to do Father's Will whilst disobeying His Law. So anyone who believes we can continue making up our own rules, or that we are in a position to judge God's Law, is claiming to know better than God, whether they realize it or not. And in doing so, has become an enemy against Christ (see Luke 19:27). Christ coming in the body of Jesus 1500 years after giving Moses The Law in no way invalidates The Law, which is eternal and will always be in effect.

It would be better if everyone personally read, studied and applied what Jesus actually says rather rely on what they've heard about Him from others. It likewise would be better if everyone personally read, studied and applied The Law in their personal lives, exactly as Jesus said we should do (John 7:16-17).

It's understood that this may sound harsh, or without mercy, even though the exact opposite is true. If understood correctly, The Law is the most loving, merciful, just and fair standard there is, ensuring true freedom, true justice, true peace, true prosperity, and the true safety and security that only Father (God) can provide.

Peace be upon you.
 

bAd

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It should be a sobering thought to correctly understand that Matthew 7:21-27 is specifically addressing "Christians". There is no other group on Earth that calls Christ "Lord" and yet refuses to do as Christ Commands, which is to keep The Law. There have been all manner of excuses and insane interpretations made pretending Christ did away with The Law, even though He plainly stated that would never happen.
The above would imply you've already killed, or are going to kill, at least one homosexual. If you're not, or haven't, you yourself have refused to keep The Law [sic] you say Christ Commands [sic].
 

free2018

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Recently there was some dialogue between myself and the host of a channel on BitChute, which, along with a similarly Christian response, were both deleted and I'm now blocked.

The video in question showed a man being pushed (presumably to his death) from the top of a tall building. Seemingly by Muslims. His alleged crime was that he was homosexual.

After viewing, reading, and contributing in the comment section, there was a serious disconnect between my understanding of Christian values and those of the channel host.

I made it clear that I was neither religious nor atheist. But, when I pointed to the Thou Shalt Not Kill factor he/she called me a heathen. I responded by calling him/her a hypocrite.

(to avoid being overly tedious I'm going to presume he rather than she)

We entered into a Leviticus 20:13 versus Matthew 21:7 (edit: pardon the error, I meant Matthew 7:21) disagreement of thinking. He stating the former, myself the latter.

When questioned, he took the position of saying that Jesus would approve of how the allegedly homosexual man was killed. I respectfully disagreed.

I said Leviticus preceded the birth of Christ of by 5 or 6 hundred years, I've not heard of Jesus having ever killed anybody, and, throwing a man from a building didn't at all fit with what I've heard about JC.

That was the end of that conversation and the deletions / blocking occurred almost immediately.

The reason I made this post..

It irritates me that the channel in question purports to be Christian.. I want to draw attention to this and get some frustration off my chest.. plus, last not least, I'd like to consider the thoughts of others on this type of matter.

Advance thanks..
Interesting question. As someone previously states, Yeshua did not come to rid of us of the law.
Christians have decided to make Yah in their own imagine instead of just letting The Creator lead us rightly through the scriptures.

For example, sex out of wedlock is okay for billions of Christians, yet somehow they feel they are justified because it’s just sex.
 

Stucky

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The above would imply you've already killed, or are going to kill, at least one homosexual. If you're not, or haven't, you yourself have refused to keep The Law [sic] you say Christ Commands [sic].
Invariably the people who would like to see people killed for their sin or alleged sin want others to do the killing. You know the story, 'lets get the Romans to nail this guy to a tree' or in Saul of Tarsus case 'I'll hold the coats while you mob go about doing the stoning' . Which, in a perverse sorta way, makes me admire the conviction of these fellas who threw the other fella off a building....But i'm thinking maybe there was a different motive as to why they threw this fella from the building...make your own inference as to the why.

'love the sinner hate the sin!'
 
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floss

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Recently there was some dialogue between myself and the host of a channel on BitChute, which, along with a similarly Christian response, were both deleted and I'm now blocked.

The video in question showed a man being pushed (presumably to his death) from the top of a tall building. Seemingly by Muslims. His alleged crime was that he was homosexual.

After viewing, reading, and contributing in the comment section, there was a serious disconnect between my understanding of Christian values and those of the channel host.

I made it clear that I was neither religious nor atheist. But, when I pointed to the Thou Shalt Not Kill factor he/she called me a heathen. I responded by calling him/her a hypocrite.

(to avoid being overly tedious I'm going to presume he rather than she)

We entered into a Leviticus 20:13 versus Matthew 21:7 (edit: pardon the error, I meant Matthew 7:21) disagreement of thinking. He stating the former, myself the latter.

When questioned, he took the position of saying that Jesus would approve of how the allegedly homosexual man was killed. I respectfully disagreed.

I said Leviticus preceded the birth of Christ of by 5 or 6 hundred years, I've not heard of Jesus having ever killed anybody, and, throwing a man from a building didn't at all fit with what I've heard about JC.

That was the end of that conversation and the deletions / blocking occurred almost immediately.

The reason I made this post..

It irritates me that the channel in question purports to be Christian.. I want to draw attention to this and get some frustration off my chest.. plus, last not least, I'd like to consider the thoughts of others on this type of matter.

Advance thanks..
Becareful of what you listen to in Bitchute, there are a lot of New Age Christianity and it is not Biblical. Nowaday it is so easy to appeared like you’re a Christian. You really just need to quote a few Bible verses.

Jesus 100% will not approve of this murder. It doesn’t matter how sinful the victim might be. I will go even further and say even if a righteous man killed Hitler, Jesus will not approve of it.

“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
John3:17

His sole purpose is to save mankind from the fallen nature unto eternal life. Even the worse of the worse criminal can still go to heaven through the Blood of the Lamb. The judgement and condemnation come later when time is up.
 
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