Judged by the law and works
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The Bible says all human beings will be judged, righteous and unrighteous:
Ecclesiastes 3:17, "I said in my heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked, For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”
2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."
So everyone will be judged according to their works (which are the evidence of who we truly believe, obey and submit to) and then rewarded according to them. Yes the righteous will be rewarded according to their works but so will the unrighteous hence why they will end up in hell and die eternally. Revelation 22:12 says, "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work."
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floss
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Not surprised, both you and her believe in a work based salvation. Both of you are not going to make it. 100% guarantee you this.
I would appreciate it if you stop lying about my beliefs. I have never nor will I ever say we are saved by works (not while I'm sane) because that is contrary to the Word of God. The Bible clearly says we are saved by grace through Jesus Christ. I believe that wholeheartedly. There is nothing we can do that can lead to our salvation. Absolutely nothing! So please stop lying about my beliefs because you do not understand the Bible on this subject.
If you say I believe in a works based doctrine then so does God whose Word clearly says we will be judged according to our works. Here is actual scripture that says so as I posted in a previous post in this very thread:
Bible Verses about Judgment According To Works
Psalm 62:12, "Also to You, O Lord, belongs mercy; For You render to each one according to his work."
Proverbs 11:31, "If the righteous will be recompensed on the earth, How much more the ungodly and the sinner."
Proverbs 24:12, "If you say, “Surely we did not know this,” Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?"
1 Corinthians 3:8, "Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor."
1 Corinthians 4:5, "Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God."
2 Corinthians 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."
1 Peter 1:17, "And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear"
Revelation 20:12, "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."
Are you going to dismiss/reject all scripture that talks about being judged according to works? Shouldn't you then try to understand what the Word of God means by "judged according to works" instead of making up lies about my beliefs?
Jesus said if we love Him, we obey Him. If we love someone our actions/works prove that. And if we don't, our actions prove that too. That is why we are going to be judged by works. Plus there are actual records of our deeds in heaven.
We become saved, then we come to love Christ, then we are obedient to Him which shows in our works. Good works are evidence of our love of Christ. I repeat, we are not saved by good works, good works are proof we are saved. Only saved people can do good works according to the Word of God.
That is also why everyone is going to be rewarded according to their works whether good or bad as well as I posted from actual scripture in this very thread too. This is the truth of God's Word, not me!
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Are good deeds—well, good?
Our work reveals the quality of our relationship with God. A fake friendship cannot last.
Many Christians undermine the value of good deeds due to misunderstanding their role in their walk with God. Meaningful work and acts of kindness are extremely important, but what is their real value? We believe, together with the Reformers and many Protestants, that we are saved sola gratia, sola fide, and solo Christo—by grace alone, by faith alone, and by Christ alone. Yet, good work plays an unalterable, unmovable, and irreplaceable role in the Christian life.
As Christians, we confess that we follow Christ and keep His commandments not to be saved but because we are saved; therefore we obey God and do charitable work out of our gratitude for the free gift of salvation. We can do good deeds only because God enables us to do them. They are the result of His prevenient grace and the work of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:10; Philippians 2:13).
We believe that we are not saved by our works but solely by the works of Jesus, by His victorious, unparalleled, and holy life and death (John 3:16; Romans 5:10; 2 Corinthians 5:21). His atonement on the cross secured our salvation, and there is nothing we can add to it (Romans 3:25; 5:8; Hebrews 9:28). He is alive today to intercede for us as the only, all-powerful Intercessor (Romans 8:34; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 7:25).
Our work reveals the quality of our relationship with God. A fake friendship cannot last.
Many Christians undermine the value of good deeds due to misunderstanding their role in their walk with God. Meaningful work and acts of kindness are extremely important, but what is their real value? We believe, together with the Reformers and many Protestants, that we are saved sola gratia, sola fide, and solo Christo—by grace alone, by faith alone, and by Christ alone. Yet, good work plays an unalterable, unmovable, and irreplaceable role in the Christian life.
As Christians, we confess that we follow Christ and keep His commandments not to be saved but because we are saved; therefore we obey God and do charitable work out of our gratitude for the free gift of salvation. We can do good deeds only because God enables us to do them. They are the result of His prevenient grace and the work of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:10; Philippians 2:13).
We believe that we are not saved by our works but solely by the works of Jesus, by His victorious, unparalleled, and holy life and death (John 3:16; Romans 5:10; 2 Corinthians 5:21). His atonement on the cross secured our salvation, and there is nothing we can add to it (Romans 3:25; 5:8; Hebrews 9:28). He is alive today to intercede for us as the only, all-powerful Intercessor (Romans 8:34; 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 7:25).
Because we are saved by God’s grace alone (Romans 4:5), many people wrongly conclude that good deeds, works, or obedience are not an essential and indispensable part of the Christian life. This is a huge mistake and a misunderstanding (Romans 3:31; 6:1–4; 1 Corinthians 7:19). What is therefore the function of good deeds? Practically, good deeds comprise five crucial roles:
1. Our work is not important for our salvation (our righteousness is like “filthy rags,” [Isaiah 64:6]) but it is crucial for the salvation of others. Jesus underlines: “Let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven” (Matthew 5:16; cf. 1 Peter 2:12), and again, “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another” (John 13:34). Meaningful actions are mighty instruments in favor of evangelism to fulfill God’s work, His mission, and vision.
2. Our work reveals the quality of our relationship with God. A fake friendship cannot last. Our behavior speaks louder than words as to whether our faith is alive or dead (James 2:14, 17–20, 26). James brings it to the practical level and argues that failing to help people in need proves that such faith is empty, dead, and useless.
3. Good deeds make us pleasant and easy people to live with (Romans 12:9–21; Galatians 6:2; 1 Peter 2:11-12). Our joyful lifestyle must be positive and thus will be contagious. As God is serving, we should serve; as God is unselfish, we should be unselfish; as God is gracious, we should be gracious; as God is forgiving, we should be forgiving; and as God is encouraging, we should encourage others.
4. Good works are important for growing in and maintaining our relationship with Christ (1 Corinthians 10:31; Colossians 1:10). Daily prayer, regular Bible study,witnessing, fasting, systematic giving, tithing, a healthy diet, stewardship, and involvement in worship are significant habits that help us enjoy a good spiritual life. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22), thus cultivating self-control and discipline is a sign of God’s Spirit working in us.
5. Good deeds bring a deep satisfaction and make those who do them happy. Good work not only affects people around us but it also has a very positive influence on us and our feelings and thinking process. Working for others strengthens our own happiness and relational and social well-being. Feelings of gratification and approval are the results.
These five functions of our good deeds reveal our identity—who we are. They, therefore, confirm that we are God’s children. Paul explains that what really counts in life is “faith expressing itself through love”. This is why God’s followers are exhorted: "But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased" (Hebrews 13:16). “Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:58).
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1. Our work is not important for our salvation (our righteousness is like “filthy rags,” [Isaiah 64:6]) but it is crucial for the salvation of others. Jesus underlines: “Let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven” (Matthew 5:16; cf. 1 Peter 2:12), and again, “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another” (John 13:34). Meaningful actions are mighty instruments in favor of evangelism to fulfill God’s work, His mission, and vision.
2. Our work reveals the quality of our relationship with God. A fake friendship cannot last. Our behavior speaks louder than words as to whether our faith is alive or dead (James 2:14, 17–20, 26). James brings it to the practical level and argues that failing to help people in need proves that such faith is empty, dead, and useless.
3. Good deeds make us pleasant and easy people to live with (Romans 12:9–21; Galatians 6:2; 1 Peter 2:11-12). Our joyful lifestyle must be positive and thus will be contagious. As God is serving, we should serve; as God is unselfish, we should be unselfish; as God is gracious, we should be gracious; as God is forgiving, we should be forgiving; and as God is encouraging, we should encourage others.
4. Good works are important for growing in and maintaining our relationship with Christ (1 Corinthians 10:31; Colossians 1:10). Daily prayer, regular Bible study,witnessing, fasting, systematic giving, tithing, a healthy diet, stewardship, and involvement in worship are significant habits that help us enjoy a good spiritual life. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22), thus cultivating self-control and discipline is a sign of God’s Spirit working in us.
5. Good deeds bring a deep satisfaction and make those who do them happy. Good work not only affects people around us but it also has a very positive influence on us and our feelings and thinking process. Working for others strengthens our own happiness and relational and social well-being. Feelings of gratification and approval are the results.
These five functions of our good deeds reveal our identity—who we are. They, therefore, confirm that we are God’s children. Paul explains that what really counts in life is “faith expressing itself through love”. This is why God’s followers are exhorted: "But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased" (Hebrews 13:16). “Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:58).
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Alanantic
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What if I don't want someone to die for my sins? I'd rather atone for my own. A few still haunt me. I've forgiven the rest myself. If you can't find a reason to forgive yourself, Jesus' forgiveness won't help. And, If you CAN forgive yourself, you've no need for Jesus.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." -- Buddha
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." -- Buddha
floss
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That is perfectly fine. God gave you the free will to do and believe as you wish. Therefore, when the time come you will have no excuses. People go to hell is because that is their decision.
You've placed the bet on yourself. The only thing left is to wait for the result. I used to be a betting man and can understand your perspective. Sometime I feel like I can't lose that bet until I lost.
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Alanantic
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Standard Christian scare tactics. No one with a conscience believes in eternal damnation.
"Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man." -- Thomas Paine
Biblically there is no eternal damnation but there is eternal death. God will punish the unrighteous then they will die and never exist ever again. Eternal life is promised only to the righteous and the opposite of eternal life is eternal death.
Alanantic
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This makes a lot more sense.
"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta
It does make sense and God does only sensible things. No loving God would punish anyone eternally. That is a very cruel, heartless and unloving thing to do. Biblically not even Satan will be punished eternally.
floss
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FACT: You made your choice, so if the Bible turned out to be true, then you will have no excuses. If it turn out to be false, then we both didn't lose anything. You're way too old for anyone to scare you, if you think that's my tactic.
floss
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Not sure which Bible you're reading...
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
Revelation 20:10 KJV
BUT, if you turned out to be correct. I'm not upset at all that everyone in hell/LoF, including the devil, ceased to exist. This is not something I'm adamant about.
Alanantic
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You're kind of a sicko, ya know that?
People like you, scare me. You've replaced your own conscience with words from bronze age priests.
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. “ -- Lucius Annaeus Seneca
floss
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Sicko how? I quoted what the Bible said will happen to the devil.
What is scary about you reap what you sow? Every decision come with either rewards or consequences. I've reaped plenty of consequences for my action. You made a decision to not believe, then you should reap that consequences (if the Bible turned out to be true). If it's not true then no need to worry. What's the excuses here?
I read the same Bible as you Floss but I also study it. That means I study a subject from all over the Bible from the Old to the New Testament to understand it completely. Here is something that will help you understand what "forever" and "everlasting" mean and how they are used in the Bible. Hopefully this will lead you to study the subject further.
"But the Bible speaks of the wicked being tormented "forever," doesn't it?
The term forever is used 56 times in the King James Bible in connection with things that have already ended. It is like the word “tall,” which means something different in describing men, trees, or mountains. In Jonah 2:6, “forever” means “three days and nights.” In Deuteronomy 23:3, it means 10 generations. In the case of mankind, it means “as long as he lives” or “until death.” (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out. The unbiblical teaching of eternal torment has done more to drive people to atheism than any other invention of the devil. It is slander upon the loving character of a gracious heavenly Father and has done untold harm to the Christian cause."
"Matthew 25:41 speaks of “everlasting fire” for the wicked. Does it go out?
Yes. According to the Bible, it does. We must let the Bible explain itself. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire (Jude 1:7), and that fire turned them “into ashes” as a warning to “those who afterward would live ungodly” (2 Peter 2:6). These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up. Likewise, everlasting fire will go out after it has turned the wicked to ashes (Malachi 4:3). The effects of the fire are everlasting, but not the burning itself."
I also want you to think about this too. If God was going to punish the unrighteous including Satan forever and ever wouldn't that mean they too will live forever? I want you to show me from scripture where it says the unrighteous will live forever?
The Bible says:
“The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
“Sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death” (James 1:15).
“God … gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).
So the wages for (or the result of) sin is death, not everlasting life in hellfire. The wicked “perish,” or receive “death.” The righteous receive “everlasting life.”
Its bad enough that God is going to destroy the unrighteous who He loves because they made choices not to follow Him and because sin has got come to an end eventually. The act of destroying the unrighteous in hellfire is so foreign to God’s nature that the Bible calls it His “strange act” (Isaiah 28:21). Yet you want to believe that a kind and loving God would torment the wicked day and night forever?
You have gravely misunderstood God if you think He can do such a horrible thing. God would never do that and He won't.
We read the same Bible yet your God is so cruel and heartless. How can you continue to believe in Him if He is capable of tormenting anyone forever and ever? I wouldn't, but thankfully that is not the God of the Bible. Just punishing the wicked in hellfire and them dying eternally will be so painful for God especially after He gave everything when He sent His Son to die for all our sins.
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Alanantic
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There's nothing scary . Why do you believe in such horrible things? It's medieval! I'll gladly pay for my sins. I've no need for Jesus. Why do you? Have you really done something so terrible that you need someone to even DIE for YOUR sins? Has my choice condemned me to some ever-lasting torture? These are sick and twisted ideas made by primitive priests who said they're from some "god" that's as primitive as themselves. You gave up your conscience for 3500 year old dusty fragments of primitive morals.