Why Do You Think Jesus Is The Son Of God?

Red Sky at Morning

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@Kung Fu

I am keen on learning as well. One of the things I learned was the difference between 'discourse' and truth. You provide a powerful discourse on the intellectual superiority of Islam, but more detailed examination of the issue challenges your claims.

I have no interest in continual forum trench warfare though! Those who wish to believe the words of liberal theologians will find it easy enough to find them.

For those who would hope that Christianity had a strong intellectual base, but fear that the liberals may be right after all, I would encourage you to consider good resources such as http://reasonsforjesus.com http://www.khouse.org and http://coldcasechristianity.com

If it is the textual integrity of the Bible you struggle with, check out Bill Cooper's Authenticity series - fairly meaty but worth engaging with if you want to understand the critics and their commitments...

There are many more besides but I would encourage anyone who is challenged on their faith to dig in and see what they might find out!
 
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Lady

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@Kung Fu
I think you have me confused with someone else who doubts the authenticity of the Quran. I have not had any questions from you on the topic I posted above.

The Quranic text lost its veracity at the time of the Uthmanic revision. This is when the line of text succession was broken. Why would Uthman burn the memorized sources from which he collected the texts?
There went any primary source evidence-which would NOT stand up in any court of law, save a corrupt one.
 
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@Kung Fu
I think you have me confused with someone else who doubts the authenticity of the Quran. I have not had any questions from you on the topic I posted above.

The Quranic text lost its veracity at the time of the Uthmanic revision. This is when the line of text succession was broken. Why would Uthman burn the memorized sources from which he collected the texts?
There went any primary source evidence-which would NOT stand up in any court of law, save a corrupt one.
:rolleyes: good grief @Lady.You really have no idea what you are talking about.
 

JoChris

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So God impregnated his own MOTHER?

Is God mortal or immortal?
Trinity - one godhead, three persons.
ONE God. One Father, One Son, One Holy Spirit.
Jesus is the Son of God - fully God, fully man. Fancy term is hypostatic union. http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-the-hypostatic-union

To be fully man- to truly know what each one of us go through and experience - Jesus had to be a normal fetus, baby, child, adolescent and then grown man. He therefore had to have a mother (Mary) who was miraculously impregnanted by God the Holy Spirit.
 
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fully God, fully man
You're either fully one thing or fully another. You cannot be both at the same time. God Remains God. He Always Existed. There was nothing with Him. He Suffices to Himself. Since He Created everything, He Already Knows everything there is to know. He Does Not Have to take on human form or whatever. How illogical is that? He Created the human form. Why would He take it on? He Is The One Who Keeps us alive.

If you wrote a computer game, would you delve into it? Don't you already know all about it? The only thing you can do is to give it to others.

God Is The One Who Created all causes and all effects. Mary was the cause and Jesus was the effect. We resemble them so we cannot ascribe any of them to God Almighty. It is an offence to Him since He Having Always Existed, Remains Immeasurably Superior to what previously was devoid of any existence whatsoever. God Suffices to Himself. He Is Needless. Everything else that has had needs is not Him!

If you say that God Changed, then that means that He Was Previously lacking in one way or another so that He Should Change. God Does Not Change. He Remains Perfect as He Is and Will Always Be. Nothing can be likened to Him in any way.There's Only One Truth and that's Him and Only Him. May God Guide us all towards His Approval for nothing can be worthier than Him.
 
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Lady

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:rolleyes: good grief @Lady.You really have no idea what you are talking about.

I have read enough to know of the very dubious way in which the Quran has been handled in its early years, and if I were a Muslim, I would do a serious study on it.

One red flag is that the text was supposedly kept intact via the memory of men. Early Islamic scholars write on the mishandling of passages by Uthman (and others) as well as state documented instances of admitted memory failure of passages by those who were transmitting the text.

Instead of pointing the accusing finger at the bible, Muslims need to look at their own book and its beginnings. It should keep them busy for awhile examining the way in which it was compiled, primary source copies burned, as well as passages missing.

You are right, I do not know much about it, but it did not take long to uncover sources that make these claims; they are found in writings of Islamic scholars.

Originally published in The Muslim World 28 (1938): 61-65. Reprinted with permission.

Said Abu ‘Ubaid:

Isma‘il b. Ibrahim related to us from Ayyub from Nafi‘ from Ibn ‘Umar who said—Let none of you say, “I have learned the whole of the Koran,” for how does he know what the whole of it is, when much of it has disappeared? Let him rather say, “I have learned what is extant thereof.”

Ibn Abi Maryam related to us from Ibn Luhai‘a from Abu’l-Aswad from ‘Urwa b. az-Zubair from ‘A’isha who said, “Surat al-Ahzab (xxxiii) used to be recited in the time of the Prophet with two hundred verses, but when ‘Uthman wrote out the codices he was unable to procure more of it than there is in it today.”

http://erenow.com/common/the-origins-of-the-koran/9.
 
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mecca

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To be fully man- to truly know what each one of us go through and experience - Jesus had to be a normal fetus, baby, child, adolescent and then grown man. He therefore had to have a mother (Mary) who was miraculously impregnanted by God the Holy Spirit.
But he already knows what we go through because he created the entire process. There's no point in him becoming human.
 

Violette

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But he already knows what we go through because he created the entire process. There's no point in him becoming human.
Experiencing something brings a whole new level of understanding. God taking on flesh was an act of love and kindness. He's not condescending, he is understanding and personal. God could have made us incapable of sinning but he would rather give us the option to choose him. The fall of man separated us from God, Jesus bridged that gap. Without Jesus there is no way to heaven because no amount of good works will rid you of sin.
 
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Experiencing something brings a whole new level of understanding.
God already understands. He doesn't need to experience life as a human.
I can bring you tons of quotes from the bible that show good deeds by us- His creation - are loved to Him and not "filthy rags" as you are all so fond of saying. Give me a minute - I' ll post them up soon God willing.
 

Violette

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God already understands. He doesn't need to experience life as a human.
I can bring you tons of quotes from the bible that show good deeds by us- His creation - are loved to Him and not "filthy rags" as you are all so fond of saying. Give me a minute - I' ll post them up soon God willing.
He doesn't need to do a lot of things but he does because he cares for us. Just as parents do for their children so often. I'm not sure where you got filthy rag from my statement but I'd love to read a bible verse that says good works alone are sufficient for salvation. God loves when we do what is pleasing to him but we are still not good, not to an infinite, perfect God's standard. Only God is truly good.
 
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He doesn't need to do a lot of things but he does because he cares for us. Just as parents do for their children so often. I'm not sure where you got filthy rag from my statement but I'd love to read a bible verse that says good works alone are sufficient for salvation. God loves when we do what is pleasing to him but we are still not good, not to an infinite, perfect God's standard. Only God is truly good.
I agree but living life on earth as a human being isn't one of them. You're the one who said:
Experiencing something brings a whole new level of understanding.
So who is doing the experiencing to have a whole new level of understanding? Certainly not Almighty God, creator of Heavens and earth. Don't know where you got good works alone from my statement, but righteousness is filthy rags is part of Christian belief as interpreted from Paul is it not? Good works and faith are what earn salvation - faith in God being the only one worthy of worship. He is one and has no sons or partners. (First Commandment, greatest Commandment).
God is infinite and perfect but He does not expect us to be like Him, we could never be. No, He wants us to be as perfect as human beings can be. As good, kind and merciful as He created us to be. We have the choice to be the on the best noble character or the lowest vile character or anything in between. This is our free will that God gave us. May He guide us to what pleases Him. Peace.
 

Violette

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I agree but living life on earth as a human being isn't one of them. You're the one who said:

So who is doing the experiencing to have a whole new level of understanding? Certainly not Almighty God, creator of Heavens and earth. Don't know where you got good works alone from my statement, but righteousness is filthy rags is part of Christian belief as interpreted from Paul is it not? Good works and faith are what earn salvation - faith in God being the only one worthy of worship. He is one and has no sons or partners. (First Commandment, greatest Commandment).
God is infinite and perfect but He does not expect us to be like Him, we could never be. No, He wants us to be as perfect as human beings can be. As good, kind and merciful as He created us to be. We have the choice to be the on the best noble character or the lowest vile character or anything in between. This is our free will that God gave us. May He guide us to what pleases Him. Peace.
Jesus experiencing human life while also being God gives people a new understanding of God. Jesus walking among us also showed us a new level of intimacy between us and God. Salvation is received through faith in Jesus Christ only. Works do matter though, faith without works is dead. There's only one door into the sheepfold. You can't earn salvation, it's a free, undeserving gift available to anyone.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Jesus is not literally God's son he wasn't conceived the old fashioned way. Jesus taught monotheism and that He was equal to God, so you're mistaken if you think Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
IMG_2764.JPG
 

JoChris

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You're either fully one thing or fully another. You cannot be both at the same time. God Remains God. He Always Existed. There was nothing with Him. He Suffices to Himself. Since He Created everything, He Already Knows everything there is to know. He Does Not Have to take on human form or whatever. How illogical is that? He Created the human form. Why would He take it on? He Is The One Who Keeps us alive.

If you wrote a computer game, would you delve into it? Don't you already know all about it? The only thing you can do is to give it to others.

God Is The One Who Created all causes and all effects. Mary was the cause and Jesus was the effect. We resemble them so we cannot ascribe any of them to God Almighty. It is an offence to Him since He Having Always Existed, Remains Immeasurably Superior to what previously was devoid of any existence whatsoever. God Suffices to Himself. He Is Needless. Everything else that has had needs is not Him!

If you say that God Changed, then that means that He Was Previously lacking in one way or another so that He Should Change. God Does Not Change. He Remains Perfect as He Is and Will Always Be. Nothing can be likened to Him in any way.There's Only One Truth and that's Him and Only Him. May God Guide us all towards His Approval for nothing can be worthier than Him.
According to the bible Jesus was there at the beginning, therefore the contradiction is in your mind only.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.
 
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According to the bible Jesus was there at the beginning, therefore the contradiction is in your mind only.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.
Not at all. The Word was 'Be' and everything started existing. Jesus' existence began when he was born meaning he didn't exist prior to that. Nothing that resembles us in one way or another can be likened to God Almighty. There's nothing that can be like God in any way. That is why Only He Is Worthy of Worship and nothing else. Not money, not men, not women, not power, not fame, not idols, nothing at all except Him!

Matthew 26:39

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed,“My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”


Clearly distinguishes between Jesus and God. He prayed not to himself but to God just like Muslims pray five times per day. God Is Formless.
 
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JoChris

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Not at all. The Word was 'Be' and everything started existing. Jesus' existence began when he was born meaning he didn't exist prior to that. Nothing that resembles us in one way or another can be likened to God Almighty. There's nothing that can be like God in any way. That is why Only He Is Worthy of Worship and nothing else. Not money, not men, not women, not power, not fame, not idols, nothing at all except Him!

Matthew 26:39

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed,“My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”


Clearly distinguishes between Jesus and God. He prayed not to himself but to God just like Muslims pray five times per day. God Is Formless.
The witness of Jesus, the apostle John wrote that. He would have been corrected by other apostles if what he wrote was wrong.
Therefore the words the apostle John wrote ALWAYS outranks GIF, myself and any other self-declared prophet -including Muhammad.
God is Formless, your online opinions typed nearly 20 centuries later are worth nothing compared to an actual witness and follower of Jesus Christ for 3 years.

It does not matter how much you type - the apostle John outranks you automatically in any objective thinker's mind. He was there with Jesus. He actually KNEW God in person, you merely think you do.
 

Karlysymon

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Kung Fu said:
I'm a man of logic and reason and this is why
I left the Bible and chose
the Quran. It's really as
simple as that.
Please, logically, explain to me the Miraj (Ascencion) event. How he made it past the van Allen belts, dodged the intense cosmic radiation and that space dust that travels 10x faster than a speeding bullet...enough to leave gaping holes in one's body, and how no else has embarked on a similar journey since then.


But he already knows what we go through because he created the entire process. There's no point in him becoming human.
God is a God of justice. Yes, He knows all things but one of many reasons He came to experience the human life was because He'd leave no room for excuses. On judgement day, people would simply point to the fact that He is condeming them to hell without having ever walked in their shoes, so to speak. People would claim "you have no idea what temptation is like, et al". Iam pretty sure you have heard similar things when people plead to be treated fairly.

Yes, God has a right to do whatever He wants because all things are His but this has consequences because He has a Name to protect. He acts according to the claims He makes about Himself and we naturally react to that.
Since He emergered victorious, He and the saints (2 witnesses) will disprove the claims of the condemned.
 
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Karlysymon

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@Red Sky at Morning . I thought this would verily interest you.
(and maybe @Lady, @Camidria)

"Have you ever noticed the triadic expressions throughout the Bible?

“The Lord bless you and
keep you;
“the Lord make His face
shine upon you, and be
gracious to you;
“the Lord lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26.

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts!” Isaiah 6:3

“O Lord, hear!
“O Lord, forgive!
“O Lord, listen and act!” Daniel 9:19

O Lord, O Lord, O Lord . . . Holy, holy, holy . . . these three-part exclamations punctuate the Old Testament, becoming more precise in the New, identifying not just the number, but the specific persons of Father, Son
and Spirit in God (See 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 2 Thess. 2:13, 2 Thess. 2:13 and 1 Peter 1:2).
But a different kind of cry
ascends from Jesus when on the Cross, He takes upon Himself our alienated condition. He cries, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
My God My God... Two instead of three.
Baggaged with our sin, He finds Himself outside the circle, outside His eternal home, outside of belonging. The inseparable Trio of love, fractured. Father looking down in woe, present but not perceived, Spirit moaning with cries too deep to be uttered, Jesus orphaned and outcast, forlorn and despairing, the traumatic assault sufficient to make His internal organs to boil over in terminal grief."

**************
Its an excerpt from a piece i read aeons ago and iam going to add 2 more examples of my own. God employs it (in my favorite verse) when speaking to Moses atop Sinai:

And He passed infront of Moses, proclaiming, 'The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,... Exodus 34:6-7

Revelation 4:8-10's throne-room scene, similar to Isaiah 6, the seraphs/cherubim/4 living creatures, "Day and night they never stop saying: Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty,who was and is and is to come."

Come to think of it, true praise is heartfelt and spontaneous. Its not like God handed them a script and commanded that His great name should be praised so (maybe He did? I don't think so). Given that they proclaim not just one or 5 or 7 'holys' but 3, millenia after millenia (because Isaiah and John saw the same thing). It makes one wonder why...

Note: "Jesus cares for His followers. He would not leave His disciples as orphans. He promised to send the Holy Spirit. Jesus here specifically says that He will send "another helper" or "comforter." The words that Jesus uses here are significant. He promises to send another helper. Not a different one. The Greek word for "another" is "allos." In the Greek language of the New Testament "allos" indicates that Christ will send another comforter who is numerically distinct but is of the same character, that is, who is
similar to Himself. In otherwords, Jesus promises One like Himself, One who will take His place, One who will continue to do His work in us, and who is His representative.
This work of the Holy Spirit is the work of a helper or
comforter. The Bible here uses the Greek word parakletos (John 14:16) to describe someone who is called upon for support,
for assistance, someone called to our aid. Just as Jesus is a Person, the Holy Spirit is also personal. This idea is supported by the fact that personal attributes are often ascribed to the Holy Spirit (see John 14:26, 15:26, Acts 15:28, Rom. 8:26, 1 Cor. 12:11, 1 Tim. 4:1)."
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Jesus experiencing human life while also being God gives people a new understanding of God. Jesus walking among us also showed us a new level of intimacy between us and God. Salvation is received through faith in Jesus Christ only. Works do matter though, faith without works is dead. There's only one door into the sheepfold. You can't earn salvation, it's a free, undeserving gift available to anyone.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Jesus is not literally God's son he wasn't conceived the old fashioned way. Jesus taught monotheism and that He was equal to God, so you're mistaken if you think Christianity is a polytheistic religion.
View attachment 1094
Fantastic infographic! Thanks @Violette
 
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