Self-abuse Is Sinful And Unhealthy

Dan said:

You're even more insane than "colgate". If I didn't wank now and then I'd be raping and killing any female in sight out of frustration. Are you a robot or something? Judgement Day is NOT coming. That was a lie to instil fear in the ignorant.

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You're talkng about raping and killing but I'm the insane one. Okay.

God_Is_Formless said:

Lol. Man, i'm sure you're never gonna r*pe nor kill anybody. But trust me, been there done that, i get what you mean. The thing is, once you start believing and feeling ashamed of the futility of it all, you start asking God for Forgiveness every time you stoop so low. Then you resolve yourself to never do it again. You'll start having wet dreams after some time and it's much better than wasting time, energy, and your soul.

You will want to gather the strength to tell yourself that if i wouldn't be doing such a thing in front of my parents, then why the hell would i do it when i know for sure that God Is Watching me at all times? That would develop sincerity in your own self whereby something you wouldn't be doing in the presence of people whom you don't want to be thinking bad about you, you also don't do it when you're all alone.

And Judgement Day will surely come brother. Consider how many evils the people who are in power are perpetrating everyday. They are thinking that they are the wealthiest in the world and that they are untouchable. Well, guess what? God Is Watching and Recording their every move. And on Judgement Day, they will say to God Almighty to send them back because now they have seen the truth and that they'll do good.

But it will be too late then. Their Judgement will start and all the poor people they've hurt during their lives will now be claiming Retribution.

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Nonsense. How can I lose my soul by having natural physical desire and relieving my lust? It's like eating or taking a leak. Evil people have existed since forever. When is this hypothetical day coming after 2000 years? The downfall is caused by their own sins. All the people hurt never get redemption, they have to live with that pain. Animals are the same. And how can I ask for help from something I don't even believe in? There are multiple faiths and religions. Christianity is not the centre of the world for every person.

Etagloc said:

You're talkng about raping and killing but I'm the insane one. Okay.

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I got carried away. I'm not saying I would ever do that but those thoughts have entered every man's mind since forever. If they say they never had those thoughts then they are liars.

thought the proselytising was meant to be kept to the religious forum? obviously thats a pointless rule and nothings ever gonna change here!!

Dan said:

Nonsense. How can I lose my soul by having natural physical desire and relieving my lust? It's like eating or taking a leak. Evil people have existed since forever. When is this hypothetical day coming after 2000 years? The downfall is caused by their own sins. All the people hurt never get redemption, they have to live with that pain. Animals are the same. And how can I ask for help from something I don't even believe in? There are multiple faiths and religions. Christianity is not the centre of the world for every person.

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forget the religious zombies. citing scripture takes the place of using their brain.

that said, harnessing your chi/qi/life force energy by not masturbating has a lot of merit. in western society, we are extremely oversexualized. i think our desire for sex is unnaturally (read: artificially) higher than it should. id gamble that societies outside of the modern influences rarely, if ever, have masturbatory habits. we are so flooded with sexual imagery-- these remote tribes in amazon or in papua new guinea dont have that problem.

but you shouldnt feel guilty, and you wont die from it. withholding from doing so does indeed empower you (check out the "nofap" videos on youtube). jacked up powers and strength (re-diverting the sexual energy you have into other aspects of your life) might convince one to cut back or quit.

God_Is_Formless said:

I'm sure you've a bad memory. Also, on Judgment Day, those who masturbated will have to swallow the totality of all the semen they wasted.

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Lmao, thats a whole lot of semen.

Dan said:

Evil people have existed since forever.

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People become evil when they start disbelieving in God, The Reason why everything is continuously existing at each and every moment.

@God_Is_Formless i understand how religion may come into the discussion but this is a health and wellness thread can we keep it non religious?

How about posting research or articles to prove your points instead ?

Qur'an Chapter 48 Verse 29

Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. Thou seest them bowing, prostrating, seeking bounty from God and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel: as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage.

Are you being hard against those who disbelieve? Are you being merciful to those who believe? Can't you see them getting enraged?

God_Is_Formless said:

, on Judgment Day, those who masturbated will have to swallow the totality of all the semen they wasted

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That doesn't make sense.
1- Seems a little gay. God doesn't like gay stuff.
2- Swallow this and go to hell. If not double jeopardy, at least double punishment.
3- Vasectomy. None was wasted, unless the vasectomy was a sin too.
4- What would women have to swallow?

GIF apparantly believes hes waging an online jihad of sorts

I wouldnt have sex with my husband in front of my parents either. Means nothing.

To @Dan - moderation is key as with most things

Lurker said:

That doesn't make sense.
1- Seems a little gay. God doesn't like gay stuff.
2- Swallow this and go to hell. If not double jeopardy, at least double punishment.
3- Vasectomy. None was wasted, unless the vasectomy was a sin too.
4- What would women have to swallow?

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It may not make sense now but it will on that Day for sure. Just as those whose hands will become pregnant on that day, it will serve as an ignominy of sorts. And who mentioned going to hell? God May Forgive them for all we know or at least we hope. Maybe the disgrace could be all the punishment they'll ever undergo but still it's to be avoided at all costs. And who spoke of vasectomy here? I don't know for the women.

God_Is_Formless said:

It may not make sense now but it will on that Day for sure. Just as those whose hands will become pregnant on that day, it will serve as an ignominy of sorts. And who mentioned going to hell? God May Forgive them for all we know or at least we hope. Maybe the disgrace could be all the punishment they'll ever undergo but still it's to be avoided at all costs. And who spoke of vasectomy here? I don't know for the women.

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How do you even know what you're worshiping, though? You claim to believe in a creator, but what you don't seem to realize is that you are really only worshiping a book. Just because that book happens to be automatic writing performed by an illiterate person while in a trance state does not make it true. It could have come from any source, really, probably not something we should just accept as ultimate truth.

Faker He-Man said:

How do you even know what you're worshiping, though? You claim to believe in a creator, but what you don't seem to realize is that you are really only worshiping a book.

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It's funny that you should mention that since i had already written about this a while ago. God Bless

God_Is_Formless said:

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***hires therapist***
***calls therapist***

Haich said:

@God_Is_Formless i understand how religion may come into the discussion but this is a health and wellness thread can we keep it non religious?

How about posting research or articles to prove your points instead ?

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With all respect, Haich...

I think we've seen enough.

That picture is horrifying

God_Is_Formless said:

It may not make sense now but it will on that Day for sure. Just as those whose hands will become pregnant on that day, it will serve as an ignominy of sorts. And who mentioned going to hell? God May Forgive them for all we know or at least we hope. Maybe the disgrace could be all the punishment they'll ever undergo but still it's to be avoided at all costs. And who spoke of vasectomy here? I don't know for the women.

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So then what you are saying is that this thread should have been created in the religion section of the forum because it really has nothing to with whether this is a healthy or unhealthy behavior. This is actually an Islamic teaching to discourage the behavior.

What you are saying is that Islam discourages this behavior by saying that on judgment day your hand will swell like it is pregnant and you will have to drink the amount of semen you have expelled in this practice?

@Etagloc why did you put this in the Health and Wellness forum when you must have known that this was actually a theological discussion regarding a consequence defined in Islam?

So just so we are clear, this thread is turning into a religious discussion because it actually began as a religious discussion without making the audience aware that this is where the concept of hand pregnancy comes from.

Seriously, I thought you had thought of this and it was just some silly way to explain that it is unhealthy to practice this behavior. Just like a click bait title. I had no idea that this was actually something that was based on an actual teaching that some people may believe will actually happen as a judgment for this behavior. I think your approach to this discussion was a little bit manipulative.

rainerann said:

So then what you are saying is that this thread should have been created in the religion section of the forum because it really has nothing to with whether this is a healthy or unhealthy behavior. This is actually an Islamic teaching to discourage the behavior.

What you are saying is that Islam discourages this behavior by saying that on judgment day your hand will swell like it is pregnant and you will have to drink the amount of semen you have expelled in this practice?

@Etagloc why did you put this in the Health and Wellness forum when you must have known that this was actually a theological discussion regarding a consequence defined in Islam?

So just so we are clear, this thread is turning into a religious discussion because it actually began as a religious discussion without making the audience aware that this is where the concept of hand pregnancy comes from.

Seriously, I thought you had thought of this and it was just some silly way to explain that it is unhealthy to practice this behavior. Just like a click bait title. I had no idea that this was actually something that was based on an actual teaching that some people may believe will actually happen as a judgment for this behavior. I think your approach to this discussion was a little bit manipulative.

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You think I was manipulative because I tried to do an interesting title? I guess if you can say taking a shower and wearing nice clothes is manipulative. I do try to dress nice. But if I'm speaking and people are listening to me because they like my shirt, am I wrong for trying to wear a nice shirt or are they wrong for paying more attention to my shirt than what I'm actually saying?

This is in the health and wellness section because this is about health and wellness.

The title of this thread is "Self-abuse Is Sinful And Unhealthy".

If we say it is unhealthy- or argue that it is healthy- then we are discussing health. Health and wellness.

Furthermore, what is health and wellness?

I would argue that what is dangerous for our health and wellness is not just sitting on the couch too much. It's not just a lack of exercise. It's not just sodas. Atheism is dangerous for our health and wellness. Dangerous black magic is dangerous for our health and wellness. Satanism is dangerous for our health and wellness. Sin is dangerous for our health and wellness. Pornography is dangerous for our health and wellness. Obscene and dehumanizing music is dangerous for our health and wellness.

Some smug person might say "well Etagloc is only making assertions and not providing evidence" in the above paragraph. And they'd be exactly right. I am not here to argue. If you're likeminded, you're likeminded. If you're not, you're not.

But for me, myself- I reject the preconceived epistemology that assumes health and wellness and the spiritual are not related. I'm not going to make 100 posts debating about it. Believe what you want. There was a doctor who saw patients keep dying and he said "we should try washing our hands before we treat people"... if I remember right they were doing surgery on people. I think they were dealing with corpses and then immediately afterwards doing surgery on people.

This doctor said "let's wash our hands" and they pretty much laughed at him and thought he was a lunatic because of his outlandish theory that we should wash our hands performing medical operations. People were dying and his outlandish theory would have saved lives. But he was a crazy person because he wasn't going along with the crowd.

People laugh at you and think you're crazy if you believe in God. It goes against the dominant ideology and if you go against the status quo, people will laugh at you and mock you. If they could, they'd grab you and do some sort of violence to you but they can't actually harm you so they try to get at your head by throwing insults.

You'll get this whether you believe in Islam, Christianity, whatever religion and try to really live according to its teachings.

Socrates, Jesus, Galileo, I mean it's all in the book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. If you're like Galileo or Socrates, people might laugh at you or even kill you. It might be common sense that you're a mad man. It might be common sense a generation later that you were right. How did the Athenians look at Socrates and how do we look at him today?

We don't even have to read The Structure of Scientific Revolutions to see how the person who initiates a paradigm-shift in thinking is persecuted, how the person who has the nerve to really think independently is attacked. You can look at Ignacio Martín-Baró, who used psychology to try to help the people of El Salvador during its Civil War and who was murdered by a death squad. My friend's sister studied with him. There was a lot of murdered scholars. Óscar Romero... tried to help the people in El Salvador and speak out against injustice... also murdered. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X to give examples people might be familiar with. I don't have to tell you those stories, I'm sure you already know them.

What is my point? What is that makes all that not a string of disconnected fragments, what demonstrates unity in the diversity of cases I have just cited?

It was all predicted. Even before the Quran was revealed and even before most of the Bible was written, all this was already predicted- by Plato. Actually, we don't even have to look at Plato. It was even in the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu. Plato talked about it in the Republic, Lao Tzu talked about it in the Tao Te Ching.


if you know about Plato's Cave Allegory, then you know what I'm talking about. If you don't, the video explains it in Plato's words.

The fact is this epistemological bias that is artificial and imposed on us, the idea that health and spirituality are separate, is absurd. It's primitive. We should look at it like... I mean maybe like an early attempt at building an airplane that didn't quite fly. The civilization around us is quite sick and unaware of the extent of its sickness. That's why I compare its understanding of health to an early attempt at an airplane that didn't quite fly. Because it is very important that you don't actually try to fly in that failed model of an airplane. It could be dangerous and you could seriously harm yourself. If someone tries to tell you, there's nothing wrong with atheism or satanism and these things are perfectly okay and not a danger to your health, then don't believe them. If someone tries to tell you the dehumanizing garbage that is being called music is not a danger to the health, don't believe them.

Everyday reality and the spiritual are connected. We cannot disassociate everyday reality from the spiritual because they are connected. This is an objective fact. Do I have absolute proof that will convince every person? Am I going to debate this for 100 more posts? No.

The fact is we can't prove... much of anything if we really think about it. I mean if you read some philosophers who are into skepticism, they can show you that. You could go all the way back to David Hume and see how he showed that we can't prove our everyday assumptions. I can't prove that we're not all living in an artificial computer simulation. I can't prove to myself that reality is not just a strange dream I'm having. I can't prove the world is not going to end in five minutes. I can't prove the world is not going to end in six minutes.

I don't even think you can really prove 2+2=4. Before you laugh at me, my lines of thinking on this go back hundreds of years to David Hume. I'm not making these ideas up. You can take 2 apples and 2 apples and say "see? now we have 4". But how do I know it will always add up to 4? I could say "yeah, but I heard my cousin's girlfriend's roommate's professor's favorite saxophone player's barber's dog's veterinarian actually put together 2 and 2 apples and got 5. the fifth spontaneously appeared when they were counted together". You can't prove apples don't spontaneously appear. You also can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow. Yet life must go on.

Etagloc said:

My last thread exposing the evils of self-abuse and exploring the possibility of it causing pregancy of the hand was locked due to people acting crazy. Let us be impartial, fair and balanced, and let us denounce the evils of self-abuse. If you don't know what self-abuse is, please talk to a doctor.

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I think you are being manipulative again, and so I went back to make sure you mentioned the hand pregnancy thing in the opening post and sure enough, you did. Somehow in your really long post, you directly avoided answering the question of whether or not the concept of hand pregnancy is based on an Islamic teaching regarding judgment for this behavior making this a religiously motivated topic and not one centered on the subject of health and wellness.

Whether you can make a philosophical argument that the subject of health and spirituality blend and should be considered one subject, you know the definition health and wellness pertains to the subject of biology and anatomy in this case. Therefore, somewhere in this thread, there should be something about whether or not "self-abuse" causes some sort of trouble with the kidneys or the liver or something that relates to actually affecting the health of the body.

If this is only something that affects a person's "health" as in affecting their spiritual health. Then it belongs in the section titled Religion and Spirituality.

Then, you don't start a discussion knowing that it has nothing to do with affecting a person's physical health that integrates religious terminology and becomes a religious discussion that is disruptive for other people.

Etagloc said:

I would argue that what is dangerous for our health and wellness is not just sitting on the couch too much. It's not just a lack of exercise. It's not just sodas. Atheism is dangerous for our health and wellness. Dangerous black magic is dangerous for our health and wellness. Satanism is dangerous for our health and wellness. Sin is dangerous for our health and wellness. Pornography is dangerous for our health and wellness. Obscene and dehumanizing music is dangerous for our health and wellness.

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Your post also completely confirmed that this subject has nothing to do with health and wellness and is entirely a religiously centered argument, but I only will highlight one part of it to make my point. If you want to debate whether atheism is damaging to your spiritual health, start a thread in the right place.

As it stands, you don't appear to make a case that this behavior is damaging to your physical health in any way, shape, or form. No wonder the discussion has gone in the direction it has.