Thread dedicated to the Holy Virgin Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven.

Tidal said:

Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Son of God

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According to the Bible, your book, God is described as having many sons. So Jesus is not truly the "only begotten son".

Jacob is God's son and firstborn:

Solomon is God's son

Ephraim is God's firstborn

Adam is the son of God

Common people (you and me) are the sons of God:
David is a begotten son


So "son of God" was not understood within the traditional Israelite milieu, to be a claim to divinity, it was simply figurative, to indicate those who were closest to God, and highly righteous and pious people. But over time, its meaning metamorphosed within the confines of the pagan/polytheistic Greek civilization (where the "gods" in the Greek pantheon were said to have sons and daughters), into the literal understanding that Christians have today, of a divine son. It has nothing to do with Jesus' teachings, and everything to do with the devil enticing people into the worship of other than the one true God of Abraham.

Justin Martyr, an apologist within the early Church, in fact wrote the following in response to pagan criticisms that Christianity borrowed from their beliefs about the sons of God:

"When we say that the Word, who is our teacher, Jesus Christ the first born of God, was produced without sexual union, and that he was crucified and died and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we propound nothing new or different from what you [pagans] believe regarding those whom you consider sons of Jupiter."

Justin Martyr, The First Apology, Chapter 21

TrollingTroubles said:

I’ve read three different versions of the New Testament and nowhere does Jesus actually say that he’s the son of God..

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You gotta be jiving us boy..
The High Priest asked him-" Are you the Son of God?"
Jesus replied - "I am" (Mark 14:61)

"He asked his disciples,..“Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." (Matt 13:16/17)

pescatarian09 said:

According to the Bible, your book, God is described as having many sons. So Jesus is not truly the "only begotten son".

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ALL Christians and the ancient holy men are children of God..-
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord,
I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )

Jesus was not just "a" son of God, he was "the" Son of God, even God himself said so..-
God said- "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

That's why Christians are world-beaters, and nonchristians are not..
"Who is it that beats the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)

Tidal said:

ALL Christians and the ancient holy men are the children of God..-
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord,
I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )

Jesus was not just "a" son of God, he was "the" Son of God, even God himself said so..-
God said- "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

That's why Christians are world-beaters, and nonchristians are not..
"Who is it that beats the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)

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When you say Jesus (peace be upon him) is the son of God, are you meaning to say he is God-like and has divine qualities (e.g. existing before creation/created heaven and earth), or do you understand from it that he is a human being who was God's prophet, born of a virgin, worked many miracles by God's permission, is the messiah, and will return before the Day of Judgement?

pescatarian09 said:

When you say Jesus (peace be upon him) is the son of God, are you meaning to say he is God-like and has divine qualities (e.g. existing before creation/created heaven and earth), or do you understand from it that he is a human being who was God's prophet, born of a virgin, worked many miracles by God's permission, is the messiah, and will return before the Day of Judgement?

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1-Jesus was fully human and was a carpenter for the first 29 years of his life and had the holy spirit to a certain extent, but was then given an overwhelmingly powerful download of the holy spirit and began his mission to save the world.

2- He did his miracles by the power of God coursing through him-
"..believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."- John 10:38

3- He said he'll return on or around the day of judgement-
"And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other" (Matt ch 24)

Tidal said:

1-Jesus was fully human and was a carpenter for the first 29 years of his life and had the holy spirit to a certain extent, but was then given an overwhelmingly powerful download of the holy spirit and began his mission to save the world.

2- He did his miracles by the power of God coursing through him-
"..believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."- John 10:38

3- He said he'll return on or around the day of judgement-
"And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other" (Matt ch 24)

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You might like to hear of Biblical Unitarianism


Biblical Unitarianism[1][2][3] encompasses the key doctrines of Non-trinitarian Christians who affirm the Bible as their sole authority, and from it base their beliefs that God the Father is one singular being,[3] and that Jesus Christ is God's son but not divine.[3]

You are a step closer to believing in Islamic monotheism:

Say: He is God, the One and Only.
God, the Sustainer.
He has never had offspring, nor was He born.
And there is nothing that is comparable to him.

:: Chapter 112 of the Quran.

But understand that "son of God" is disrespectful to the greatness of God; far be it above God to take offspring, like the common animals of the earth that He has created. He is utterly unlike His creation. The understanding of the earliest Christians, and the Israelites, of the term son of God is different to how trinitarian Christians think of it now. First it was figurative or symbolic, and then it became literal as influenced by Greek and Roman paganism, until the doctine of the trinity was made.

Tidal said:

You gotta be jiving us boy..
The High Priest asked him-" Are you the Son of God?"
Jesus replied - "I am" (Mark 14:61)

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Bleh, your dishonesty in pulling bible verses and injecting your own poison is beginning to be known to me now. You’re losing credibility fast here bud.

The NIV, ESV, KJV, NASB, NLT, CSB (arguably the most popular versions of the NT) don’t say “son of God” but instead say “son of the blessed one” and Mary, was indeed blessed to be mother of the messiah, Jesus, according to your own religion.

I’ve heard arguments for the “the blessed one” to mean “god” but the very fact that the ‘gospel according mark’ is problematic doesn’t really leave you with much to fall back on.

You haven’t convinced me with your dodgy attempt, I’m afraid.

Bart Ehrman totally demolished the reliance on the gospel of mark so quoting that to me is really not going to work.

You can’t use the bible to prove itself when it is work of men and is available in many different versions which are all symptoatically problematic in their own way.

I did expect some honesty from you though, and I didn’t get that.

TrollingTroubles said:

The NIV, ESV, KJV, NASB, NLT, CSB (arguably the most popular versions of the NT) don’t say “son of God” but instead say “son of the blessed one” and Mary, was indeed blessed to be mother of the messiah, Jesus, according to your own religion.

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Haha everybody KNOWS 'the blessed one' is God, so don't get suckered in by the truth-bending brigade-
"Ignorant people distort things,to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16/17)
They'll be trying to tell us next that Jesus's mum was Mary Poppins..

Heck even God himself called Jesus his son-
"This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
so you'd better argue it out with him if you meet him..

Tidal said:

I don't go to church because I don't feel the need, but if other people like going, good luck to them.
A few churchgoing pals tried to introduce me to their churches in the past but I always ended up walking out bored stiff after 5 minutes to cries of "There he goes!" from my rofling pals.
I later discovered they'd been betting among themselves how long it'd be before I walked..
Twice I walked out before the service had even begun because I didn't like the atmosphere, and on one occasion the vicar chased me down the street to try to persuade me to come back, it was like trying to escape from Colditz but I managed to give him the slip and make a home run.

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What kind of churches did you go to?

Cintra said:

I think you need to read Luke 6.20, and remember that these are the literal words of jesus, written by his own hand.
Or don't you believe the Bible is god's true word?

I will be in heaven because I am poor.
Are you poor?
Will St Peter let you past the Pearlies? Or are you too rich for that narrow gate?

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you can’t just quote one passage and think that’s all there is to the whole book!

I can’t say I’m poor but I’m very far from rich

TrollingTroubles said:

What does that mean though? I mean, Muslims accept and believe as well as honour Jesus as a very important prophet and (if I’m correct) messenger of God, and they also expect him to return in the end times to kill the child of perdition, the antichrist right?

So would that mean they accept Jesus or reject him in your opinion?

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they reject the divinity of Christ thus they reject Christ himself

Daze said:

Tidal is actually a bigot. Hes insulted Muslims numerous times on these boards and has been shown to be so.
I do believe Tidal is one of the 2 or 3 people on the planet who believes in the official narrative to 9/11.

HIs opinion doesn't matter much as he says alot of off the wall stuff. Numerous posters from multiple faiths have called him a troll if it means anything.

He's just an old lonely dude willing to say anything to get some attention, even if its only a minute or 2' worth.

Isn't that right @Tidal?

This is where he posts comments from 30 to 40 people from other websites singing his praises as hes done multiple times.

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So you can’t answer his questions but instead try to discredit him?

maybe you should take DesertRoses advice and learn better manners too

Tidal said:

..A few churchgoing pals tried to introduce me to their churches in the past but I always ended up walking out bored stiff after 5 minutes to cries of "There he goes!" from my rofling pals..

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SnowFall said:

What kind of churches did you go to?

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I honestly can't remember what denominations they were; I remember in one the congregation were waving their arms in the air like crackheads, and in another I was getting black looks because I turned up in scruffy jeans, teeshirt and trainers (sneakers)..
Once my pals took me to an Alpha Course in a church but I walked out before it'd started because I could sense a satanic atmosphere. Just as well, because later I found out that Alpha Courses went in for "speaking in tongues" nonsense, jabbering like monkeys..

TrollingTroubles said:

I thought you’d have more than a canned response,

Doesn’t matter, I got my answer.

I’m an open heart and mind. And I like to think that I can think. And I have to say, my thinking is this: Muslims have more respect for the red letters (the words Jesus actually spoke according to your bible) than you do. To me, this weighs more on the side of the Muslim argument for being the followers of Jesus than you claim you do. The Muslims have accepted Jesus the way he wanted to be accepted by his followers. I don’t think you’re able to grasp this idea.

It’s quite ironic and tragic at the same time, but the sweetness of this irony is probably lost on you as you are, in my opinion, on the bitter end of it.

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So Christ literally said he’s the son of God :”15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

and that he is God: “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” John 14:9

and you think Muslims know Christ better?

SnowFall said:

you can’t just quote one passage and think that’s all there is to the whole book!

I can’t say I’m poor but I’m very far from rich

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Yes! I can do exactly that.

Jesus said it.
It says in the bible that jesus said it.
So therefore it is true.
Or don't you think the bible is true?
Maybe some bits are true and others aren't.
Is that what you are saying?

Tidal said:

I honestly can't remember what denominations they were; I remember in one the congregation were waving their arms in the air like crackheads, and in another I was getting black looks because I turned up in scruffy jeans, teeshirt and trainers (sneakers)..
Once my pals took me to an Alpha Course in a church but I walked out before it'd started because I could sense a satanic atmosphere. Just as well, because later I found out that Alpha Courses went in for "speaking in tongues" nonsense, jabbering like monkeys..

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If you want to try something different, I’d suggest trying to find a Catholic Traditional Latin Mass, they’re hard to find now but it’s an amazing experience!

Cintra said:

Yes! I can do exactly that.

Jesus said it.
It says in the bible that jesus said it.
So therefore it is true.
Or don't you think the bible is true?
Maybe some bits are true and others aren't.
Is that what you are saying?

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I’m saying that you are isolating one passage and think you know the whole book!

you need to understand the Bible all works together, to only look at one passage would leave you with incomplete information and would be ignorant.

Fridays Rosary

Hail Mary Full of Grace the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus, Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death AMEN

SnowFall said:

I’m saying that you are isolating one passage and think you know the whole book!

you need to understand the Bible all works together, to only look at one passage would leave you with incomplete information and would be ignorant.

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Of course I know the bible.
I know it well.
Many things are said in it.
As it is the bible they all must be true.

In the bible, in Luke 6.20, It records Jesus saying that all the poor people would go to heaven.
Therefore it is true that Jesus said this, because the Bible never lies.

Jesus never lied too, so therefore his words are true.
All poor people will go to heaven.

If you accept that the bible is true, and jesus never lied, then you must agree with me.
Jesus said it, how can you call him a liar?

Tidal said:

Haha everybody KNOWS 'the blessed one' is God, so don't get suckered in by the truth-bending…

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It wasn’t me who changed the bible verse, it was you.

There is no clear statement in the NT where Jesus says “I am the son of god” but lots of shady statements that you claim are straight pitched but are actually open to interpretation as I demonstrated above.

Bottom line is, if Jesus was son of god, he’d have no reason to be all shady about it.

I don’t buy what you are selling. I never did trust second hand car salesmen.

Good day