To Muslims: Proof from the Quran that Mohammad/Islam is wrong

fotw

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It had nothing to do with calling gentiles/canaanites 'sinners'. Jesus criticised the jewish people for their sins many times over.
Paul then went in depth explaining that the GENTILES were grafted in due to the tresspass of jews eg the jews were the sinful nation at that time and God kicked them out of the holy land and replaced them with gentile nations.
the same canaanites and other nations became christian later too.

So why would Jesus be referring to their sin, over that of the jews?

21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”
24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”
28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.


there is the context...it's about race, not sin.
Forgive me for repeating this as I have never heard of Jesus being accused of racism before. For this we need to look back at the Old Covenant. This is when God was against the Canaanites because they were idol worshipping, abominous, non believing sinners that offended God in every way imaginable. The non believing Canaanites were a bad influence on the Israelites way back in the Old Covenant and Jesus knew this. The lost sheep of Israel are believers that have lost their way to sin. What I think Jesus meant was that the children are the believing sinners and the dogs are the non believing sinners. Jesus did not want to give that which is holy unto the dogs trying to help a non believing sinner thinking that she couldn't be helped until she answered him. Notice how Jesus helped the Canaanite woman after he learned that she was an actual believer, just as Jesus healed all the other believers that were Gentiles. Jesus liked what she said because she believed, he noticed that she was true in faith and that he would not be giving that which is holy unto a non believer.

We can event test this ourselves by trying to share the Old Testament, New Testament or the Quran with a non believing sinner to see what their answer is. In my case they trample it under their feet, and tear me a new one every time. Finally it just doesn't make sense that Jesus would feed and heal all those Gentiles if he was racist.
 

Kung Fu

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Forgive me for repeating this as I have never heard of Jesus being accused of racism before. For this we need to look back at the Old Covenant. This is when God was against the Canaanites because they were idol worshipping, abominous, non believing sinners that offended God in every way imaginable. The non believing Canaanites were a bad influence on the Israelites way back in the Old Covenant and Jesus knew this. The lost sheep of Israel are believers that have lost their way to sin. What I think Jesus meant was that the children are the believing sinners and the dogs are the non believing sinners. Jesus did not want to give that which is holy unto the dogs trying to help a non believing sinner thinking that she couldn't be helped until she answered him. Notice how Jesus helped the Canaanite woman after he learned that she was an actual believer, just as Jesus healed all the other believers that were Gentiles. Jesus liked what she said because she believed, he noticed that she was true in faith and that he would not be giving that which is holy unto a non believer.

We can event test this ourselves by trying to share the Old Testament, New Testament or the Quran with a non believing sinner to see what their answer is. In my case they trample it under their feet, and tear me a new one every time. Finally it just doesn't make sense that Jesus would feed and heal all those Gentiles if he was racist.
There are several problems here. Why would Jesus judge this Canaanite woman based on what other Canaanites did in the past only to be proven wrong? And why call disbelievers dogs if they have done nothing wrong except for simply not believing? Why not simply refer to them as disbelievers? Or Jesus only helped the Canaanite women to get rid of her because she wouldn't leave them alone and after Jesus realized that she knew her rightful place, dog (Canaanites) eating the crumbs of the leftovers of the master (Israelites), he helped her.

We shouldn't jump to conclusions. We don't know what's within the hearts of others. We, as Muslims, were taught to be patient and if they don't like what you have to say you leave in a civilized manner. Ultimately it's God who guides and we, as humans, are only meant to advise.

There could be countless reasons as to why he healed and fed gentiles (please if you could show us where he did that) but it doesn't mean you can't be a racist. Also, I find the NT is contradictory, which explains a lot. Jesus on the one hand is this pacifist, turn the other cheek, kind of guy and then this vengeful killer the next. Regardless, he calls her a dog and that's just messed up.
 
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Forgive me for repeating this as I have never heard of Jesus being accused of racism before. For this we need to look back at the Old Covenant. This is when God was against the Canaanites because they were idol worshipping, abominous, non believing sinners that offended God in every way imaginable. The non believing Canaanites were a bad influence on the Israelites way back in the Old Covenant and Jesus knew this. The lost sheep of Israel are believers that have lost their way to sin. What I think Jesus meant was that the children are the believing sinners and the dogs are the non believing sinners. Jesus did not want to give that which is holy unto the dogs trying to help a non believing sinner thinking that she couldn't be helped until she answered him. Notice how Jesus helped the Canaanite woman after he learned that she was an actual believer, just as Jesus healed all the other believers that were Gentiles. Jesus liked what she said because she believed, he noticed that she was true in faith and that he would not be giving that which is holy unto a non believer.

We can event test this ourselves by trying to share the Old Testament, New Testament or the Quran with a non believing sinner to see what their answer is. In my case they trample it under their feet, and tear me a new one every time. Finally it just doesn't make sense that Jesus would feed and heal all those Gentiles if he was racist.

I'm not accusing him of racism. I'm highlighting xtian double standards.

Your argument IS racist.
You're judging 1st century Canaanites to ones that lived around 1400 years before.
The Bible that you're quoting shows us that Israelites massacred every living thing in Canaanite towns.
That's evil too.
Yet you chose to ignore a the evils done by Israel and only highlight those done by Canaanites long before Jesus even came.

Also you say he is God and yet he didn't know the faith of the woman?

In reality the Canaanites at that time were monotheistic. The Mandeans were canaanites whose religion was centered around John the Baptist.
Jesus called the woman a dog because she was a gentile pure and simple, reflecting the racism you'd expect from a Jew.

The more I think about it the more comical xtianity becomes btw.
Seriously xtians attack islam. They are angry about dhimmi status under Muslim rule and the dhimmi tax which was 10% of your annual savings. Even though living under Muslim rule allowed you free movement (and trade) in what was the richest economy in the world. Protection from the state (eg Muslims fighting jihad on your behalf. Dhimmis were not required to lay down their life for their land. The tax they paid was sufficient. In a world where every land on earth was at war. Christians were better off as dhimmis under Muslim lands than they were in Christian Europe.

We currently pay anywhere from 20-45% tax and then pay council tax, car tax and VAT on goods too. Inheritence is taxed too. yet none of you complain about that.

The Romans demanded tribute from Jews Inc slaves.
Yet Jesus in his infinite wisdom as your one and only white mangod was saying "render unto ceasar what belongs to ceasar".

In other words Jesus was okay with living under Roman subjugation...ok with their tribute tax and slavery.
Yet xtians attack Mohammed and Islam.


Btw Jesus is that guy who cursed a fig tree. It was symbolic of course...but he still cursed at a tree. ...

If that was Mohammed, just imagine the xtian response?
 

fotw

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I'm not accusing him of racism. I'm highlighting xtian double standards.

Your argument IS racist.
My argument has nothing to do with race. In fact I hate racism with passion. I thought it was you that claimed Jesus was racist, I stand corrected then, we agree, Jesus was not a racist. So you were trying to bait me into a racist argument thinking that I am a Christian to try to make me look racist? Why the deception? At first I thought we were having a civil discussion on good terms in search for the truth, I stand corrected yet again.

You're judging 1st century Canaanites to ones that lived around 1400 years before.
I'm not judging this woman. Only pointing out that some of the written history of her people may have influenced Jesus in his response. In fact I feel sorry for this poor woman and her child.

The Bible that you're quoting shows us that Israelites massacred every living thing in Canaanite towns.
That's evil too.
Agreed I hate all the evil that all men do and have done. I don't condone any of it in the least bit.
Yet you chose to ignore a the evils done by Israel and only highlight those done by Canaanites long before Jesus even came.
I'm not ignoring the evils done by Israel, I hate all that is evil. I do acknowledge it. You are correct about that, not all is black and white.

Also you say he is God and yet he didn't know the faith of the woman?
When did I ever say Jesus was God? I never said Jesus was God, I was talking about Yahweh in the Old Testament. I don't believe for one second that Jesus was God.
In reality the Canaanites at that time were monotheistic. The Mandeans were canaanites whose religion was centered around John the Baptist.
I never said this wasn't true.
Jesus called the woman a dog because she was a gentile pure and simple, reflecting the racism you'd expect from a Jew.
This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
The more I think about it the more comical xtianity becomes btw.
Seriously xtians attack islam. They are angry about dhimmi status under Muslim rule and the dhimmi tax which was 10% of your annual savings. Even though living under Muslim rule allowed you free movement (and trade) in what was the richest economy in the world. Protection from the state (eg Muslims fighting jihad on your behalf. Dhimmis were not required to lay down their life for their land. The tax they paid was sufficient. In a world where every land on earth was at war. Christians were better off as dhimmis under Muslim lands than they were in Christian Europe.

We currently pay anywhere from 20-45% tax and then pay council tax, car tax and VAT on goods too. Inheritence is taxed too. yet none of you complain about that.

The Romans demanded tribute from Jews Inc slaves.
Yet Jesus in his infinite wisdom as your one and only white mangod was saying "render unto ceasar what belongs to ceasar".

In other words Jesus was okay with living under Roman subjugation...ok with their tribute tax and slavery.
Yet xtians attack Mohammed and Islam.


Btw Jesus is that guy who cursed a fig tree. It was symbolic of course...but he still cursed at a tree. ...

If that was Mohammed, just imagine the xtian response?
I hate all the evil that is involved between Islam and Christianity and this world in general, it's horrible, I feel your pain and I am truly sorry. I'm not a Christian. I'm searching for the truth in this screwed up place we call earth trying to be at peace with my creator and my brothers and sisters. I never attacked Mohammed as I believe he was a prophet the same that I believe in all the prophets before him.
I think you mistake me for a Christian and toss me into your Islam vs Christianity mud slinging divide and conquer deception bondage battle which I want no part of. I do not condone the evils of Islam and I do not condone the evils of Christianity or any organized religion. The Luciferians that currently control this planet are laughing while you both are falling for it hook line and sinker. Instead you guys should try to show a little respect to each other and try to find some common ground and become united as children of the most high. So it looks like our discussion is over, as we agree that Jesus was not a racist and that Jesus is not God.

I leave you in peace, kind regards.
 
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floss

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Instead you guys should try to show a little respect to each other and try to find some common ground and become united as children of the most high.
Have to interject here. It's impossible for both Christian and Muslim to be children of TMH. The Bible clearly said only through Christ you can be born of the spirit and BECOME children of TMH.

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJVA‬‬

There is a reason why Christian called God our Father because we had a spiritual rebirth and became His children. You're not a child of God by default. Also, according to muslim, allah is father to no one. You see why Christian and Muslim will never be united?
 

floss

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The only way to find common ground is to focus on obeying your creator. Jesus obeyed our creator better than anyone, Jesus is the example on how to do that.
Are you implying Jesus is a created being? You just don't understand, Christian and Muslim belief are irreconcilable surrounding who Jesus is.
 

floss

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They don't have to be irreconcilable. Not all Christians believe Jesus is God.
Not all Christians are biblical. Even the non-trinitarian Christian do not believe Muhamad was the final prophet. How do you expect to reconcile with them?
 
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Not all Christians are biblical. Even the non-trinitarian Christian do not believe Muhamad was the final prophet. How do you expect to reconcile with them?
Perhaps a Christian might find evidence to convince them that Muhammad was the final prophet. It is not unheard of for a Christian to become a Muslim.
 

floss

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Perhaps a Christian might find evidence to convince them that Muhammad was the final prophet. It is not unheard of for a Christian to become a Muslim.
All evidences pointed to muhamad was a false demon possessed prophet. Trinitarian Christians will never reconcile with Muslims belief, ever. There are plenty of unsaved foolish so called "Christian" that converted to Islam, their lost.
 

A Freeman

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Unless someone is truly reborn from above, OF God, i.e. as their true, SPIRITUAL self, they will NEVER understand the Scriptures (John 3:3-7).

We are ALL spiritual Beings who have been TEMPORARILY placed inside of these human animal bodies to learn from our Creator, and the experiences we have in these human lifetimes, how to be good, like Him (Gen. 1:26, Matt. 5:48).

It's therefore IMPOSSIBLE for a spiritual-Being to be racist, because a spiritual-Being has no race, nor cares about such things. What Jesus said in Matthew 15:24 had absolutely NOTHING to do with race and everything to do with LOGIC, COMMON-SENSE and EVERYONE'S INDIVIDUAL AND COLLECTIVE BENEFIT.

Matthew 15:21-28
15:21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the "lost sheep" of the "House of Israel" (the Ten "Lost" Tribes of Israel).
15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.
15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master's table.
15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

As smart as all of you claim to be, you must realize that this is hell. Sure, we call it planet Earth, but nobody can deny that this is a place where people lie, cheat and steal from each other, where women are raped and children are molested and where we have allowed the "legalization" of theft in the form of tribute/taxes and the "legalization" of murder in the form of war.

No genuinely civilized society would allow all of this evil to go on around them and sit around and do nothing. Or worse yet, brag to one another that they're in a group of really good people that are better than some other group, because their skin color is different, or their organized religion is better or because they have more material possessions or money than the next guy. ALL of which is based upon arrogance/ignorance of our TRUE reality: we are spirit-Beings imprisoned here in hell. And worse yet, we are ALL on death row for treason (sinning/doing evil/committing crimes) against God.

Most here keep talking about the "Jews" as if you know what that term means today, or what it meant 2000 years ago, or even where it came from, when you very obviously have no idea based upon the things you say. And the same goes for the term "Gentile".

The "Jews" are, and always have been, adherents to the ORGANIZED RELIGION known as Talmudic Judaism, which originated in Babylon, when the two-tribed "House of Judah" was there in captivity, c. 588-518 BC. It was there, in Babylon, where their humans unlawfully intermarried with the Babylonians and adopted many of their pagan practices, which corrupted the "House of Judah" and have caused incalculable harm to everyone. Nobody was called a "Jew" before 2600 years ago in Babylon, not even those of the two-tribed "House of Judah".

That was when the first mass conversion to Talmudic Judaism took place, and when the Babylonian Talmud was written. The second mass conversion took place roughly 110 years or so before the birth of Jesus, under the rule of John "the hammer" Hyrcanus" when the surrounding Idumean-Edomites were converted. So by the time of Jesus, the "Jews" were predominately human+Beings whose human bodies were NOT racially descended from the two-tribed "House of Judah" anymore than the Gentiles (foreigners) were.

Most importantly, NONE of the "Jews" were part of the ten-tribed "House of Israel", which had fled the Babylonians with the Assyrians after spending years in captivity in Assyria, c. 722-650 BC. And no one from the "House of Israel" was ever referred to as a "Jew".

The word "Israel" means "Champion of God", i.e. one who is "true in faith" and who is actually DOING God's Will. And do you know what you must do first BEFORE you can do God's Will? You have to know what His Will is for you. And how exactly would anyone know what God's Will is for them? By LISTENING to God with their SPIRITUAL EARS.

So after 1500 years of training and testing in this prison reform school for the criminally insane, that became so filled with hatred and violence during the times of Noah that Noah and his immediate family were the ONLY true believers (i.e. those who were "true in faith") left on Earth at that time. God therefore chose Noah for that important task, and wiped out all of the hateful, evil humans in the flood, so he could send all of the souls/spirit-Beings inside of those humans back into bodies descended from Noah. Otherwise NONE of them would have any hope whatsoever of surviving Judgment on the Last Day.

Fast forward another 2500 years or so to the times of Jesus, and the world had again steadily grown more dark and evil, so much so that WITHOUT DIVINE INTERVENTION absolutely NO ONE would learn what they needed to learn so they could go home, to heaven.

So what did Christ do when He incarnated the body of Jesus? He didn't waste any time. He focused His energy and efforts EXACTLY where Father (God) directed Him to do so: to the ONLY ones here in hell who would actually listen to Him. Those whom Father had specifically placed in Israelite bodies based on His Perfect reward and punishment system, because they (those spiritual-Beings) showed a genuine interest in learning from Father. Who do you think decides which spirit-Beings (Souls) go into which human bodies? Father does.

Christ, through Jesus was therefore literally and physically setting a flesh-and-blood example for those who could see Him for Who He really is, and who would actually pay attention and strive to emulate Him. And that way the process could then continue after He left, with maximum effect, with the most spiritually-minded believers helping those weaker in faith (i.e. those that like being animals).

The Canaanite woman proved herself to be one who was "true in faith" by acknowledging that she was content with the crumbs left over from the Israelites table, knowing those crumbs were coming from the One Who is 'the Bread of Life".

So yes, this had everything to do with sin and evil, because the most sinful and evil will NEVER listen to God's Word, whether it be found in the Old Covenant, New Covenant, Quran or directly from Christ during one of His many incarnations here on Earth.

So anyone who wishes to continue calling Jesus a racists (yes, that's exactly what anyone who claims the analogy He shared with the Canaanite woman was in some way belittling her, when it was simply a statement of fact), is obviously looking at that situation through human animal eyes, instead of through spiritual eyes, and thus is, of their own free-will, choosing to be an animal rather than one who is "true in faith", i.e. a true Israelite ("Muslim" in Arabic).
 
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Kung Fu

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All evidences pointed to muhamad was a false demon possessed prophet. Trinitarian Christians will never reconcile with Muslims belief, ever. There are plenty of unsaved foolish so called "Christian" that converted to Islam, their lost.
Of course, Trinitarian Christians can never reconcile with the Islamic believe system and that's because you are polytheists and Muslims are monotheists. You worship three gods, one being a human who, and Muslims worship One who is immortal and unlike anything you can imagine. In other words you're a polytheist Roman.
 

floss

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Of course, Trinitarian Christians can never reconcile with the Islamic believe system and that's because you are polytheists and Muslims are monotheists. You worship three gods, one being a human who, and Muslims worship One who is immortal and unlike anything you can imagine. In other words you're a polytheist Roman.
Yep, Trinitarian Christians will never be able to reconcile with Muslims. We worship a 3 in 1 God while Muslim worship One God. Just trying to point this out to fotw. I hope from now on Muslims stop saying Christians and Muslim worship the same God, no we do not.
 

Kung Fu

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Yep, Trinitarian Christians will never be able to reconcile with Muslims. We worship a 3 in 1 God while Muslim worship One God. Just trying to point this out to fotw. I hope from now on Muslims stop saying Christians and Muslim worship the same God, no we do not.
Yes and no. The one true God is the Father/Allah while the rest of the gods you worship are lesser gods. Christianity is similar to Hinduism.
 

floss

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Yes and no. The one true God is the Father/Allah while the rest of the gods you worship are lesser gods. Christianity is similar to Hinduism.
Muslim: we do not call allah, father. Allah is father to no one.
Also muslim: allah is the Father God
 

AdjeYen

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P.S. Christian lurkers please note that NO Muslim/ Christian apostate from the forum interact will ever interact with Youtube apologists.

Either:
1. No courage
2. Not enough education about what is in THEIR own texts
3. No ability to keep under 200 characters.
4. All above 3.

It does not matter how much evidence that Muhammad (their real god, not Allah) was an adulterer, a murderer, a p**ophile, a rapist, a serial robber, an illiterate man, a racist etc... or that the only reason the religion remained was that people were mass murdered if they did not convert to/ remain in Islam. They would rather reject the Son of God's death on the cross to defeat death and sin in exchange for superficial moral codes and a promise of 72+ virgins + endless feasting in their Paradise.

Therefore please follow Ephesians 6:10-20 if you do choose to interact with them. I have been encouraged seeing that some of you are willing to do this, I pray that the blood of Jesus covers you for protection and you are given the wisdom needed to continue this important role.
Breh, I would totally embarrass myself for saying such things, but I guess there's no shame in you at all.
I literally have no idea what else to say. I hope you're going to change your behaviour one day, especially the way you feel about Islam now. Christian or not, it does not matter. Bless.
 

Kung Fu

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Muslim: we do not call allah, father. Allah is father to no one.
Also muslim: allah is the Father God
Lol. We don't mean literal "father". And believe me you don't want to play the literal game especially when you consider how Mary got pregnant in your book.

Regardless Allah is One while you worship humans. You're no different than the Romans and the worshipping of their man gods. Or are you going to dent that you worship a man?
 
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interestingly enough there have been a number of prophetic dreams, of some sort of muslim take over in the U.S., where people have been beheaded as christians by a scimitar, and others were taking down american flags and putting up islamic ones. I trust alot of these dreams because they correlate and the other events surrounding them were all biblical. I''d predict that the percieved mahdi comes, and all these muslims do what theyve always done and stand by or join in support to watch these things happen, its possible this would go back to israel, and a culmination of that conflict.
 
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