Do the “elites” believe the Rapture is imminent?

Karlysymon · Apr 4, 2020

Red Sky at Morning said:
Cynically speaking, at it’s heart, Hollywood is about money. It’s “made for the ‘faith community’” offerings are pretty mainstream, and as a belief in a pre-trib rapture is the majority eschatological view in the US presently, they are likely to get a better return on such an investment. I don’t think the question of what is theologically right is significant to these guys, one way or another.

I understand. Ofcourse you'd never consider it predictive programming.

Red Sky at Morning · Apr 4, 2020

Karlysymon said:
I understand. Ofcourse you'd never consider it predictive programming.

Of course not - I’m a pre-trib, pre-millennial, mainstream evangelical, Christian Zionist Hal Lindsay sympathiser* ;-)

*What’s not to like??

Holy week is coming! Sunday, Aril 12th will be Resurrection Day! On this week's Hal Lindsey Presents we will take a brief detour from our study of Revelation. I think you will find it especially appropriate for the extraordinary times we're living in. The program this week is called, "Holy Week: The Remembrance of the Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ."

You can search the annals of history and you will not find a more moving or important series of events than those of the original holy week some 2000 years ago. It is not a coincidence that Passover took place that same week.

In this study, I point out that God tells the people of Israel to consider the Passover a Sabbath - no matter what day of the week the Passover falls on. Everyone knows that they were to have a Sabbath one day a week, but they were also supposed to have a Sabbath one year out seven (Leviticus 25:1-7). In that year, they were supposed to let the land rest. But they never followed this law. God spoke through Jeremiah that the Babylonian captivity would last 70 years so that the land could have its Sabbaths. We see this in Jeremiah 25 and Daniel 9.

My point is that God sometimes imposes a Sabbath on us. He wants it to be a time for restoration in Him. On Passover, they were to stay inside and not work. On that first Passover, they huddled together in their houses as terrible forces wreaked havoc in the land of Egypt.

It sounds an awful lot like holy week of 2020. I pray that in these days of repeated astonishments, you will find rest and comfort, peace and joy in the Savior of the world. May you experience in Him the greatest holy week of your life!

We will be commemorating a time that I have often called, "the week that changed the world." If we allow the Holy Spirit the room to do so, this year's commemoration will be a week to change each of us - bringing us ever closer to Jesus.

Please join me for this special edition of Hal Lindsey Presents. Look for it on Daystar, Sunday at 11PM Eastern Time. Or, you can watch it online anytime at www.hallindsey.com or www.hischannel.com. If you missed any episodes, you can catch up by visiting www.hallindsey.com/videos/.

God Bless,

Hal Lindsey

Karlysymon · Apr 4, 2020

Red Sky at Morning said:
Of course not - I’m a pre-trib, pre-millennial, mainstream evangelical, Christian Zionist Hal Lindsay sympathiser* ;-)

*What’s not to like??

Haha but seriously, when i asked the question of you a couple pages back, you said Satan's deception might be in the response to the rapture. So, regarding Hollywood, what would you consider as predictive programming, setting us up for a false/bad response to the rapture?

Lisa · Apr 4, 2020

Red Sky at Morning said:
Cynically speaking, at it’s heart, Hollywood is about money. It’s “made for the ‘faith community’” offerings are pretty mainstream, and as a belief in a pre-trib rapture is the majority eschatological view in the US presently, they are likely to get a better return on such an investment. I don’t think the question of what is theologically right is significant to these guys, one way or another.

That the pre trib position is the majority eschatological view...what is theologically right isn’t significant anyway...

Kung Fu · Apr 4, 2020

Karlysymon said:
In the Tanakh, the are verses where “God summons individuals by name”. King Josiah comes to mind. The prophecy was made 300yrs before he was even born (1 Kings 13:1-3 fulfilled in 2 chronicles 34-35). The Persian king, Cyrus, is another example (Isaiah 44:28-45). To say nothing of the numerous verses about a Branch ‘sprouting from David’s line’ (Jeremiah 33:15).

Now if Muhammad was more influential than all these people, its rather curious that the torah/tanakh is so silent about him. God would have dropped clear, unambiguous details about the man and his life, given the influence he was setting him up for. Specifics about the Ishmaelite clans/tribes he would descend from, parents, wives etc. You guys use Deut 18 and Isaiah 42 but they don’t cut it. There’d be way more details, more times than those that mention the Branch sprouting from David.

Care to present those verses? Use the Tanakh to your defense.

Another thing, how and when did the abrogation of the 4th commandment of the Moral Law happen (Exodus 20:8-11)? When and why (through Muhammad ofcourse) did God decide to substitute Friday for the Sabbath, as a day of worship?

10 Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the end of the earth,
you who go down to the sea, and all that fills it,
the coastlands and their inhabitants.
11 Let the desert and its cities lift up their voice,
the villages that Kedar inhabits;
let the habitants of Sela sing for joy,
let them shout from the top of the mountains.
12 Let them give glory to the Lord,
and declare his praise in the coastlands.
13 The Lord goes out like a mighty man,
like a man of war he stirs up his zeal;
he cries out, he shouts aloud,
he shows himself mighty against his foes.

First off I only use the OT because it's the only thing you, Christians, will accept otherwise I could care less for it. Those verses in Isaiah depict Muhammad to the T. If you can bring another prophet that fits that description better than Muhammad I will bow out.

Also, we have the Quran, revelation given to him by God, so if that doesn't scream out importance than nothing does.

What you don't seem to understand is that Moses came for the Jews and not for the rest of mankind. The "Sabbath" being changed to Friday is because Friday is what was ordained for the "rest of mankind" by God.

Again, I don't want to compare prophets seeing as they are all great people and honoured amongst mankind. If Seeking didn't bring up the comparison I wouldn't have said anything.

Red Sky at Morning · Apr 4, 2020

Lisa said:
That the pre trib position is the majority eschatological view...what is theologically right isn’t significant anyway...

I think you misunderstand a little, Lisa - I was discussing the Left Behind movie and Hollywood’s potential motivations.

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

Kung Fu said:
..You still believe the mainstream narrative but yet continue posting on here

Who do you think flew the airliners into the buildings, Mary Poppins?..

Oh wait, this startling new footage has just emerged..

Karlysymon · Apr 4, 2020

Red Sky at Morning said:
I was discussing the Left Behind movie and Hollywood’s potential motivations.

Red!!!!!!! (screams in my 12yr old voice) Hollywood can't be this sloppy. You should have abundant examples at the ready. I certainly eagerly await an extensive list

Time is of the essence (on their part, that is, readying us for the deception)

Kung Fu said:
What you don't seem to understand is that Moses came for the Jews and not for the rest of mankind. The "Sabbath" being changed to Friday is because Friday is what was ordained for the "rest of mankind" by God.

KF, hold it right there. You do realize that by saying that, you are in effect saying that the Decalogue only applied and still only applies to the Jews and not the rest of mankind.

As for the change to Friday, God should have hinted at the coming changes in the Tanakh, don't you think? Feel free to provide the evidence. If the OT heralded Muhammad's ministry, it should include that particular & important aspect, don't you think?

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

Kung Fu said:
Again, why swear on the Bible if you're not a Christian?

Even murderers have sworn on the Bible in court that they'll tell "the truth, the whole truth, so help me God..", but that doesn't mean they're really christians..

Infinityloop · Apr 4, 2020

Karlysymon said:
You do realize that by saying that, you are in effect saying that the Decalogue only applied and still only applies to the Jews and not the rest of mankind.

What about Christians thinking that they can abrogate the Torah itself by taking a few lines in the New Testament out of context and claiming the Torah was just for Jews?
You do understand the implications of claiming Jesus as the 'final sacrifice' etc ("saved us from our sins") and what that actually does to your credibility when compared to the supposed eternal law of the Torah, right?
And if you truly believe "Jesus is God" (or "God is Jesus"), then how can Jesus NOT be a false prophet?

These are clear issues that apply to you within your own line of reasoning

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

KoncreteMind said:
See how your energy changed? First it was "those werent real christians doing those things"
Now its "why should God have helped them?"

Huh? Heathen tribes were running wild so why should God want to help them?

Infinityloop · Apr 4, 2020

Karlysymon said:
As for the change to Friday, God should have hinted at the coming changes in the Tanakh, don't you think?

How would you know what day the Sabbath even was on if it wasn't for Talmudic traditions to culturally inform the understood date and idea of were a week starts?

And at that, we've been through many kinds of calendars in many different civilizations throughout history, the Jewish and Islamic calendars themselves are very different from the Gregorian calendar we're most use to in the west.
Do you know for sure that a certain day actually is the "true Saturday"?

The question you pose here, I just can't be seen answered by the Bible itself alone, it requires a lot of outside context and tradition to validate any given position about it. And that's all after assuming that you have the right idea to begin with about what the "Sabbath" is really supposed to be. et al.

And aside from that, it is an obvious fact that most Christian denominations do not observe Shabbat at all. Most forms of Christianity also have their weekly church service (which is NOT Shabbat) on a Sunday.
Clearly by your own requirements, unless you explicitly observe Shabbat, then your own argument goes against you.

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

Red Sky at Morning said:
‘It’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion,” Hitler complained to his pet architect Albert Speer. “Why did it have to be Christianity, with its meekness and flabbiness?....”

Hahaha, hey Adolf, it was the great christian countries of Britain and America that bust your ass, not much "meekness and flabbiness" there"..

"On the 21st of May [1940] a noteworthy event occurred to the north of us: English tanks attempted to break through in the direction of Paris.
At Arras they came up against the SS Division Totenkopf which had not been in action before and which showed signs of panic"
-General Guderian quote from his book 'Panzer Leader' page 114

Captured Germans in Normandy 1944-

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

Kung Fu said:
Michael H. Hart, a white dude, had Muhammed as the number 1 most influential person in history out of 100 and Jesus as second or third. Also, Jesus didn't really do anything..

Hart must be nuts! That young carpenter dood only conquered the world didn't he..

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

Tidal said- Hahaha, hey Adolf, it was the great christian countries of Britain and America that bust your ass, not much "meekness and flabbiness" there"..

----------------------------------------------

Bertoxxulous said:
More like the Godless Russians, but sure Americans and Brits helped a lil

Hitler himself was the main reason for Germany's defeat, he may have been a good politician by getting Germany back on its feet after the First World War, but as a military commander in WW2 he was terrible. His biggest blunder was to declare war on America after Pearl Harbor, duh..

Kung Fu · Apr 4, 2020

Karlysymon said:
KF, hold it right there. You do realize that by saying that, you are in effect saying that the Decalogue only applied and still only applies to the Jews and not the rest of mankind.

As for the change to Friday, God should have hinted at the coming changes in the Tanakh, don't you think? Feel free to provide the evidence. If the OT heralded Muhammad's ministry, it should include that particular & important aspect, don't you think?

The version that was given to Moses was only for the Jews. People of other faiths, if genuine to God, would have had their own "Decalogue". And the reason is because I believe all people were sent prophets who were to guide them.

See IL's post about the Friday and Sabbath bit. Why would it if their book was meant for them and only them? I'm sure there would remnants of him to come but not a full blown biography and for all I know their could have been before it was "altered".

Regardless, what's your point in all of this?

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

Bertoxxulous said:
actually his biggest blunder was not getting the Japanese to invade Russia from the Far East, but if ya say so. While the allies piddled around in North Africa and Italy it was the Russians doing the most damage , by themselves

Ah but Adolf had had to pull almost half his forces out of Russia to defend against the Allies in N.Africa, Italy and Normandy, so if it wasn't for the Allies pressuring him from the west and south, he'd have had a free hand to send all those divisions to the Russian front instead and could probably have conquered Russia..

Below: 163 German divisions on the Russian Front, and 133 elsewhere-

Tidal · Apr 4, 2020

Bertoxxulous said:
He didn’t open a western front until Normandy. If the allies opened up the west sooner the war could have been over sooner.
compare the Russian casualties to all the combined. Not even close

We'll never know what would have happened if the war leaders had done things differently. However we can be sure that if Britain and America had decided to sit out the war without doing anything, Adolf would have had a free hand to develop the atom bomb.

Red Sky at Morning · Apr 5, 2020

Karlysymon said:
Red!!!!!!! (screams in my 12yr old voice) Hollywood can't be this sloppy. You should have abundant examples at the ready. I certainly eagerly await an extensive list
Time is of the essence (on their part, that is, readying us for the deception)

It occurred to me that Hollywood accidentally let “The Passion of the Christ” slip past it’s editorial filter as well...

Karlysymon · Apr 5, 2020

Kung Fu said:
Regardless, what's your point in all of this?

Okay, i'll drop it. The point of all this was provoked by

But since you seem to like comparing Michael H. Hart, a white dude, had Muhammed as the number 1 most influential person in history out of 100 and Jesus as second or third.

The claim couldn't go unchallenged.

Red Sky at Morning said:
It occurred to me that Hollywood accidentally let “The Passion of the Christ” slip past it’s editorial filter as well...

I'll give you a pass. My request was geared toward films with eschatological themes. Films selling us Satan's planned deception.....if you believe some of Hollywood's honchos are his minions.

Do the “elites” believe the Rapture is imminent?

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