Who Was Jesus?

Haich

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John 10
30 I and my Father are one.
Yh one as in he's the path to the father, accept him as he was not joe Paul wanted you to see him.
He didn't die for anyone's sins from my perspective. If he did why are we on earth ? Why were Adam and Eve cast here? what's the point of the reckoning and Judgement day if Jesus is taking the blame? How can 'God' take the blame for what we do ?
 

Kung Fu

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Jesus is a man that was sent to the Israelites. He was a prophet and a messenger of God who through the Most High performed miracles in order to prove to the Israelites that he really was sent by the Most High. The Jews didn't like him and so they, through the Romans, tried to have him crucified. However, the Most High not wanting his righteous servant to be killed made it "appear" to the people that he was crucified and then raised Jesus up to Himself. He is to return later and will die like every other human.
 

SkepticCat

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It's an account, exactly. That doesn't mean it [the crucifixion of Christ] happened. Especially when the Qur'an denies it ever happened.

Even then, what's the big deal if one denies or affirms it?

You people make a mountain out of a molehill because of that.
It is the one single thing Christianity teaches saves you - believing that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. It is a very big deal and why Islam specifically denying the divinity of Jesus Christ is an absolutely crucial matter. To be perfectly honest, I somewhat agree that it can be hard to see why such dogma can be "such a big deal" - but my understanding is denying the above is essentially dismissing the nature of God, claiming not to know Him, and also rejecting the grace of and dire need for His sacrifice and mercy. In that light, it suddenly becomes clear why it is indeed a very big deal.

I remember doing things that would be considered sinful at such a young age I didn't even properly understand the full scope of it (I took a toy I was infatuated with - a Transformers doll - from a friend in kindergarten, but my conscience got the better of me and caused me to give it back shortly). Already then, I had failed to live the perfect life free of sin and had broken a commandment (Thou shalt not steal). So, I accept the notion of human beings as inherently sinful and reject the Islamic notion of people born free of sin.

And it's not the universal account of what happened to Jesus. The universe is so vast that Earth can only be considered to be like a drop in all of its own oceans in comparison to it. Please, don't overstate matters.
... and if Earth is literally the center of the Universe, not because of a narcissistic desire to have it that way but because it's simply true? The whole notion of an endless Universe populated with life wherein Humanity and Earth is just an insignificant speck of sand is nothing more than a sci-fi idea propagated to you by the elite-controlled mass media - you have no proof of any of this. 500, 1000 years ago people knew Earth was 'the world'. Nothing in Scripture supports infinite Big Bang universe. They also want us to believe in Osama bin Laden, Holohoax and evolution neither of which I have proof of, just their word.

Same goes for Jesus being deified or ascribed as a son to The Almighty Creator. You don't have any proof whatsoever for saying that. You've never seen God Almighty and yet you dare to speak about Him things which you can only assume to be true? Fear God Almighty please since you don't know and only He Knows how better off you'd be if you really left it all up to Him concerning The Truth of it all!
Only a fool would claim to understand God, but the Bible teaches that we can know God.
 

Kung Fu

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Where did Jesus say he came to die for our sins?

Also, how do you reconcile the fact that in Ezekiel it talks about repentance and living a righteous life that will save you from sin?


Ezekiel 18:21-23 But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
 
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Nothing existed. God Created everything out of nothing. Mary's Adam's offspring.

Adam was Created. So was his offspring. Both are creatures of God.

Creatures beget creatures. Jesus was begotten by Mary.
God Does Not beget.
 

rainerann

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But there was a pretty long period between Adam and Jesus. What was going on in between?

How are you accountable for the sin of Adam and Eve?

How can the bible not encourage you to save yourself? I don't understand. God created us sinful so he could test who was the best of us in terms of bettering and growing your soul by doing right

What about Moses, Abraham, lot etc why are these men disregarded they were also great men? Did Jesus only die for those that came after him?

Confusion!
Abraham and Moses are said to have favor with God. Saying someone has favor is the same thing as saying someone has been shown grace for their sins.

David explains the favor given to the Patriarchs in Psalm 103:3

"Yahweh, if You considered sins, Lord, who could stand?"

Another way to look at this is with the law for unintentional sin. The law of unintentional sin is kind of like God's way of acknowledging that we will sin, but not on purpose. It is a way to show grace without whitewashing sin or saying that it doesn't exist. (Numbers 15:22-31).

Therefore, many of the same principles applied before Christ came, which demonstrate how He fulfilled the law and the prophets. The concept of grace is not new. However, grace does not mean there is no sin. Grace teaches us that sin was never part of God's plan and that there is no way to restore creation without grace because we inherit sin because of what happened in the Garden of Eden.

God did not reject Adam and Eve, but that doesn't mean they didn't sin and that we don't inherit this condition because of them. In the same way, God does not reject us if we sin and that is the message of the Gospel. He wants to restore His creation. Complete restoration of the creation cannot come through our works but through His grace. Although, we should strive to be Holy as He is Holy because we know that this is where the presence of sin came from.

It is like the story of the Garden of Eden is a stop sign if you will. For example, if you were going to go to the store and really wanted to take this shirt because you thought it would look really cute and match these earrings you have. Knowing that sin resulted in the Garden of Eden should be enough to say, "No, that is a sin. I want to sin because this is inherited in the Garden. God showed Adam and Eve grace so I know He won't reject me for being tempted to sin, but because this is not the way He wanted things to be, I know I don't have to do this and that the temptation to sin is not something God wanted to burden mankind with."

So I realize that this is a cheezy example, but the point is that knowing sin comes from the Garden of Eden is a sign of grace for our souls. Knowing that God wanted more than this for us is a sign of grace. This grace is why we can repent. This grace is why Abraham and Moses were shown favor. Not the absence of sin.
 

Kung Fu

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Nothing existed. God Created everything out of nothing. Mary's Adam's offspring.

Adam was Created. So was his offspring. Both are creatures of God.

Creatures beget creatures. Jesus was begotten by Mary.
God Does Not beget.
The general consensus is that Jesus is the literal begotten son of God but that would mean God would have had to sleep with a supposed 12-year-old Mary, which makes absolutely no sense at all.
 

Haich

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Abraham and Moses are said to have favor with God. Saying someone has favor is the same thing as saying someone has been shown grace for their sins.

David explains the favor given to the Patriarchs in Psalm 103:3

"Yahweh, if You considered sins, Lord, who could stand?"

Another way to look at this is with the law for unintentional sin. The law of unintentional sin is kind of like God's way of acknowledging that we will sin, but not on purpose. It is a way to show grace without whitewashing sin or saying that it doesn't exist. (Numbers 15:22-31).

Therefore, many of the same principles applied before Christ came, which demonstrate how He fulfilled the law and the prophets. The concept of grace is not new. However, grace does not mean there is no sin. Grace teaches us that sin was never part of God's plan and that there is no way to restore creation without grace because we inherit sin because of what happened in the Garden of Eden.

God did not reject Adam and Eve, but that doesn't mean they didn't sin and that we don't inherit this condition because of them. In the same way, God does not reject us if we sin and that is the message of the Gospel. He wants to restore His creation. Complete restoration of the creation cannot come through our works but through His grace. Although, we should strive to be Holy as He is Holy because we know that this is where the presence of sin came from.

It is like the story of the Garden of Eden is a stop sign if you will. For example, if you were going to go to the store and really wanted to take this shirt because you thought it would look really cute and match these earrings you have. Knowing that sin resulted in the Garden of Eden should be enough to say, "No, that is a sin. I want to sin because this is inherited in the Garden. God showed Adam and Eve grace so I know He won't reject me for being tempted to sin, but because this is not the way He wanted things to be, I know I don't have to do this and that the temptation to sin is not something God wanted to burden mankind with."

So I realize that this is a cheezy example, but the point is that knowing sin comes from the Garden of Eden is a sign of grace for our souls. Knowing that God wanted more than this for us is a sign of grace. This grace is why we can repent. This grace is why Abraham and Moses were shown favor. Not the absence of sin.
Thanks for the explanation

So the people who followed Abraham and Moses will be part of God's Kingdom then? There's no way they can accept Jesus now...

Also do you believe Enoch, Lot and the other prophets are righteous like Jesus?
 

rainerann

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Thanks for the explanation

So the people who followed Abraham and Moses will be part of God's Kingdom then? There's no way they can accept Jesus now...

Also do you believe Enoch, Lot and the other prophets are righteous like Jesus?
Yes, I do believe Abraham and Moses will be part of God's Kingdom.

No, I don't believe that the other prophets were righteous like Jesus. The righteousness of Christ is how the new covenant is created. Jesus is without sin. His righteousness is connected with conception by a virgin. Therefore, it is unique from the other prophets and useful for creating the New Covenant.
 
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Yh one as in he's the path to the father, accept him as he was not joe Paul wanted you to see him.
He didn't die for anyone's sins from my perspective. If he did why are we on earth ? Why were Adam and Eve cast here? what's the point of the reckoning and Judgement day if Jesus is taking the blame? How can 'God' take the blame for what we do ?
it's lost in translation, the terminology/context
Father/Son/Flesh/Death/Sin etc

White people, made a real hash of it.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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The Jews knew who Jesus claimed to be...

John 8

56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The thread title should be "Who is Jesus".
 
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The Jews knew who Jesus claimed to be...

John 8

56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The thread title should be "Who is Jesus".
I don't think they really did though

John 10
36 Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’
 

Red Sky at Morning

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John 10

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him
 

Lady

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God condems Bani Israel, children of Israel for idol worship and for rejecting the messengers that were sent to them. Jesus was sent to them and they rejected him and conspired to kill him.

The people who followed Jesus at the time of his reign are called the people of the book. They believe he was sent by God and they don't believe he was God in the flesh.

Surah 3:3
He sent down to you, in truth, the Book reflecting the truth of what went before it. And He sent down the Law of Moses, and the gospel of Jesus before this as a guide for humanity. And He sent down the Criterion.
The gospel, being well-known to Mohammed, was declared to be a guide for humanity.
So, please be guided by it. Here it is again, as I have been posting on other threads:
John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

You can know you are saved by believing the gospel recommended to you by your Quran.
 
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John 10

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him
John 17
20 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Idk but it reads the same to me.
 

floss

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God condems Bani Israel, children of Israel for idol worship and for rejecting the messengers that were sent to them. Jesus was sent to them and they rejected him and conspired to kill him.

The people who followed Jesus at the time of his reign are called the people of the book. They believe he was sent by God and they don't believe he was God in the flesh.
Your answer is not clear. A yes or no would be good.
 

floss

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Only God is good, right?

Matthew 19:17
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

Jesus hinting that he is Good.

Matthew 20:15
"Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?"
 
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Todd

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John 10

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him
Why do Christians continually bring this verse up and try to use it as proof that Jesus is God, when Jesus himself prayed that we would be one with him just as he is one with the Father. Do you believe we can all become God also?
 
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