Deceptive Muslim

Lisa

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We have rather different definitions of "proved". It's quite impossible for a text which was translated before a term was used to connote a particular thing to use that term with the intention of connoting what it later came to connote.

Unless some foreknowledge of the future was involved, as the jahtruth people seem to believe.
You only assumer the term is a recent construct..I proved it isn’t....Paul undertook 4 missionary journeys..what do you think he was doing then? Having a vacation? No, he was spreading the gospel, he was being an evangelist. Its not a new term at all.
 

shankara

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You only assumer the term is a recent construct..I proved it isn’t....Paul undertook 4 missionary journeys..what do you think he was doing then? Having a vacation? No, he was spreading the gospel, he was being an evangelist. Its not a new term at all.
I'm not disputing that there were people who engaged in evangelism, in the sense of spreading a doctrine. I am disputing that they were "evangelicals" in the sense that word is used as a label for certain mostly-American literalist Christian sects.
 

Lisa

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I'm not disputing that there were people who engaged in evangelism, in the sense of spreading a doctrine. I am disputing that they were "evangelicals" in the sense that word is used as a label for certain mostly-American literalist Christian sects.
I don’t understand how they would be different though. Paul went and shared the gospel with many, many people on his missionary journey’s, he would be considered an evangelical. He shared the Good News. American Christians can and do do the same thing. People go off and do missions work where they share the Good News with others. Nowadays...you can join a forum and do the same thing without leaving your home..but its still sharing the Good News.

The purpose of all of Paul’s missionary journeys was the same: proclaiming God’s grace in forgiving sin through Christ. God used Paul’s ministry to bring the gospel to the Gentiles and establish the church. Paul’s letters to the churches, recorded in the New Testament, still support church life and doctrine. Although Paul’s missionary journeys caused him to sacrifice everything, they were worth the cost (Philippians 3:7-11).


In Christianity, evangelism is the commitment to or act of publicly preaching(ministry) of the Gospel with the intention of spreading the message and teachingsof Jesus Christ.

Christians who specialize in evangelism are often known as evangelists, whether they are in their home communities or living as missionaries in the field, although some Christian traditions refer to such people as missionaries in either case. Some Christian traditions consider evangelists to be in a leadership position; they may be found preaching to large meetings or in governance roles.

Christian groups who encourage evangelism are sometimes known as evangelistic or evangelist. The scriptures do not use the word evangelism, but evangelist is used in (the translations of) Acts 21:8, Ephesians 4:11, and 2 Timothy 4:5.
 

TempestOfTempo

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He's just playing dumb. There aren't any new muslim in this forum. This isn't the first time Scimi came back after being banned. Can easily spot Scimi's, he couldn't help himself.

thanks for bumping the thread so people can see how deceitful "mercifulservant" and zakir naik are. :)
"There aren't any new muslim in this forum."
We got another Spirit Cooker here.... "divining" the future and other unknowns via their Magical Mystery Tour lol
 

TempestOfTempo

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Your god is the small g...your god isn’t actually a god and is not the God.

I do truly believe in God and I know the God.
You are a liar, because faith in God is all we have at this point. God has not revealed himself to us..... whatever strange spirits or demons you are worshiping instead of the one, true monotheistic God have led you astray.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Allah ballah is the god of this world.

Show some respect !
The prophet Mohammad said to never disrespect anyone else's religion. If you have seen Muslims disrespecting other religions, they were wrong for that. But its also clear that Mohammad displayed superior morals and values to the compromised ones you exhibit here, because he loved and respected Christians and Jewish peoples and their faiths.
 

JoChris

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The prophet Mohammad said to never disrespect anyone else's religion. If you have seen Muslims disrespecting other religions, they were wrong for that. But its also clear that Mohammad displayed superior morals and values to the compromised ones you exhibit here, because he loved and respected Christians and Jewish peoples and their faiths.
From your own Quran https://www.quran.com/5:
5:59
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Say, "O People of the Scripture, do you resent us except [for the fact] that we have believed in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed before and because most of you are defiantly disobedient?"


SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

----
People of the Scripture are Jews and Christians.
Muhammad calls them apes and pigs. He even claimed they were turned into apes and pigs(was that meant literally or metaphorically?)

This preacher is saying what Muhammad taught. 2019 clip, you can't say this isn't an old teaching and it is no longer taught any more.
He says that Jews "truly and completely deserve that some of them were transformed into apes and pigs..."

It amazes me how Muslims fall for the claim that Muhammad was completely innocent.
Muhammad started attacking "people of the scripture" when they showed they were never going to fall for his false claims of being a prophet.



Quran 4:56
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.
 
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TempestOfTempo

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From your own Quran https://www.quran.com/5:
5:59
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Say, "O People of the Scripture, do you resent us except [for the fact] that we have believed in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed before and because most of you are defiantly disobedient?"


SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

----
People of the Scripture are Jews and Christians.
Muhammad calls them apes and pigs. He even claimed they were turned into apes and pigs(was that meant literally or metaphorically?)

This preacher is saying what Muhammad taught. 2019 clip, you can't say this isn't an old teaching and it is no longer taught any more.
He says that Jews "truly and completely deserve that some of them were transformed into apes and pigs..."
Muhammad was referring to a punishment from God for those whom turn away from or pervert their pure faith. There are Islamic stories of Muslims suffering similar fates for similar disobedience.
 

JoChris

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Muhammad was referring to a punishment from God for those whom turn away from or pervert their pure faith. There are Islamic stories of Muslims suffering similar fates for similar disobedience.
There is no incidation that Allah alone will do the killing/ vengeance for people's unbelief.
Verses in chapter 4 are direct commandments to attack non-believers, with promises of wealth and rewards, both in this life and after.

e.g.
4:76

ﭷﭸ ﭿ ﮁﮂ

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of Taghut. So fight against the allies of Satan. Indeed, the plot of Satan has ever been weak.

4:89


ﭿ ﮆﮇ ﮐﮑ ﮗﮘ

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.


There are a lot of other verses, all the words inserted to soften the appearance of the direct commandments by the translators is deceptive.

I have heard a lot of Christian Prince's direct translations of the Arabic into English now, you Muslims are being lied to as well. Your religious leaders want you to believe that Muhammad is talking about military wars only. He means any type of war, including spiritual ones.

If you learnt the truth about Muhammad himself you would end up leaving Islam. I know all of you Muslims on this forum are more moral than that psychopath.
 

DesertRose

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Muhammad was referring to a punishment from God for those whom turn away from or pervert their pure faith. There are Islamic stories of Muslims suffering similar fates for similar disobedience.
Unfortunately, these people tend to like taking things out of context and misquote verse!

They use the laughable Israeli Memri that have a PHD in deception as a resource! You are also correct this punishment will also occur with sinful Muslims towards the beginning of the hour. There are ahadith about this.

"This is not part of our religion; Islam does not say that the Jews and Christians are monkeys and pigs, rather it says that a group of Jews in the past tried to use tricks to circumvent the laws of their Lord, so Allaah punished them by turning them into monkeys. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: ‘Be you monkeys, despised and rejected’”

[al-Baqarah 2:65]
Here are the verses for those who want to read them.

Quran 4:56
The verse below which she posts to, refers to punishment for disbelievers in the next life!
Are the Muslims able to change the skins of those whose skins are burned in this world?!
"SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."

Let this be an example for those who have minds that these people take things out of context and also misinterpret verses. Christian Prince has been refuted many times for doing this, smh. Also, the biggest issue is that the actual treatment of disbelievers in their bible is blatant so the hypocrisy sucks.
 
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DesertRose

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Here are a list of misquoted verse.
2:191
“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.”

2:190: Fight in God’s cause against those who fight you, but do not overstep the limits: God does not love those who overstep the limits.

2:191: Kill them wherever you encounter them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, for persecution is more serious than killing. Do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque unless they fight you there. If they do fight you, kill them– this is what such disbelievers deserve

2:192: but if they stop, then God is most forgiving and merciful.

2:193: Fight them until there is no more persecution, and worship is devoted to God. If they cease hostilities, there can be no [further] hostility, except towards aggressors.
  • As you can see here, the verses say do not transgress. It says to kill them if they kill one of your own, expel them if they expel you. Don’t fight unless they fight you. And if they stop fighting, you should stop fighting because Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

3:28
“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.”

The believers should not make the disbelievers their allies rather than other believers– anyone who does such a thing will isolate himself completely from God– except when you need to protect yourselves from them. God warns you to beware of Him: the Final Return is to God.
  • This verse is not saying to not be friends with ‘infidels,’ it’s saying that if you don’t have Muslim friends around you, you could lose your faith.
    • Christians believe the same thing! (DR: Sh. Imran makes a good point that refers to those who are allied against decent Muslims, Jews and Christians at the end of time So that would be the Zionist Jews and Christians. Also, Muslims are permitted to marry Jews and Christians so it would not make sense about not making friendship.)
3:85
“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.”

3:84: Say [Muhammad], ‘We [Muslims] believe in God and in what has been sent down to us and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes. We believe in what has been given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of the [prophets]. It is to Him that we devote ourselves.’

3:85: If anyone seeks a religion other than [islam] complete devotion to God, it will not be accepted from him: he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter.

3:113-115: There are some among the People of the Book who are upright, who recite God’s revelations during the night, who bow down in worship, who believe in God and the Last Day, who order what is right and forbid what is wrong, who are quick to do good deeds. These people are among the righteous and they will not be denied [the reward] for whatever good deeds they do: God knows exactly who is conscious of Him.
  • “They also say, ‘No one will enter Paradise unless he is a Jew or a Christian.’ This is their own wishful thinking. [Prophet], say, ‘Produce your evidence, if you are telling the truth.’ In fact, any who direct themselves wholly to God and do good will have their reward with their Lord: no fear for them, nor will they grieve. [2:111-112]”
  • The Qur’an has many verses saying that Muslims are equal with the Jews and Christians.
5:33
“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.”

5:32: On account of [his deed], We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person– unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land– it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind. Our messengers came to them with clear signs, but many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

5:33: Those who wage war against God and His Messenger and strive to spread corruption in the land should be punished by death, crucifixion, the amputation of an alternate hand and foot, a or banishment from the land: a disgrace for them in this world, and then a terrible punishment in the Hereafter,

5:34: unless they repent before you overpower them– in that case bear in mind that God is forgiving and merciful.
  • These verses say that if you kill someone it’s as if you kill all mankind. The only time you should be killing a person is when they’ve murdered or they spread corruption, but if they repent, you should leave them alone because God is forgiving.
Before we talk about Chapter 8 in the Qur’an, let me write the background.

“The main part of this Medinan sura is a comment on the Battle of Badr (near Medina), the first fought between the Muslims and their Meccan opponents in the second year after the Migration. The Muslims, some of whom were at first reluctant to fight, won in spite of being vastly outnumbered, and began to question the distribution of the gains. The sura reminds them that it was God who brought about the victory. Verse 41 shows how the gains were to be distributed. It advises Muslims and comments on the role of the hypocrites and on those who always break their treaties (verse 56), ending with a statement about loyalties and alliances.”
The Qur’an (M.A.S Abdel Haleem)


8:12
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.”

8:7-11: Remember how God promised you [believers] that one of the two enemy groups would fall to you: you wanted the unarmed group to be yours, but it was God’s will to establish the truth according to His Word and to finish off the disbelievers––to prove the Truth to be true, and the false to be false, much as the guilty might dislike it. When you begged your Lord for help, He answered you, ‘I will reinforce you with a thousand angels in succession.’ God made this a message of hope to reassure your hearts: help comes only from God, He is mighty and wise. Remember when He gave you sleep as a reassurance from Him, and sent down water from the sky to cleanse you, to remove Satan’s pollution from you, to make your hearts strong and your feet firm.

8:12: Your Lord revealed to the angels: ‘I am with you: give the believers firmness; I shall put terror into the hearts of the disbelievers– strike above their necks and strike all their fingertips.’
  • “The Muslims, some of whom were at first reluctant to fight, won in spite of being vastly outnumbered, and began to question the distribution of the gains. The surah/verse reminds them that it was God who brought about the victory. Verse 41 shows how the gains were to be distributed.”

8:60
“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.”

8:60: Prepare whatever forces you [believers] can muster, including warhorses, to frighten off God’s enemies and yours, and warn others unknown to you but known to God. Whatever you give in God’s cause will be repaid to you in full, and you will not be wronged.

8:61: But if they incline towards peace, you [Prophet] must also incline towards it, and put your trust in God: He is the All Hearing, the All Knowing.
  • “If they incline towards peace, you must incline towards it”
source:
Code:
https://www.soulfulseedsblog.com/2018/01/controversial-quran-verses-explained/
 
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Kung Fu

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There is no incidation that Allah alone will do the killing/ vengeance for people's unbelief.
Verses in chapter 4 are direct commandments to attack non-believers, with promises of wealth and rewards, both in this life and after.

e.g.
4:76

ﭷﭸ ﭿ ﮁﮂ

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of Taghut. So fight against the allies of Satan. Indeed, the plot of Satan has ever been weak.

4:89


ﭿ ﮆﮇ ﮐﮑ ﮗﮘ

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.


There are a lot of other verses, all the words inserted to soften the appearance of the direct commandments by the translators is deceptive.

I have heard a lot of Christian Prince's direct translations of the Arabic into English now, you Muslims are being lied to as well. Your religious leaders want you to believe that Muhammad is talking about military wars only. He means any type of war, including spiritual ones.

If you learnt the truth about Muhammad himself you would end up leaving Islam. I know all of you Muslims on this forum are more moral than that psychopath.
Why don't you post the few verses before and the few verses after the ones you just posted so we can have some context? Are good upstanding Christians such as yourself supposed to be deceitful?
 
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You can believe what you want and more power to you. I do genuinely wish it brings you happiness. But where I have a problem is when people start spouting nonsense about the religion of others when they nothing of their own religion.
Very shamefully they think that "just believe" makes them immune from the elephant in the room of textual criticism.

Also to call the Bible "word of God" is a uniquely Protestant position that makes no sense whatsoever, I've already made threads debunking that claim (and I really shouldn't have to even make those threads in the first place because it only requires reading the Bible to know that those claims are false)

Also the complete rejection of hermeneutics is such a nail in the coffin if one is to suggest they have some kind of truth. The Protestant view of the Bible turns the Bible into something that it isn't.

Also with the billions of Christian sects nobody who claims to be a Christian can claim that "just believe" is a good defense, it's a deliberate give away of charlatanism. As Ecclesiastes says "there is nothing new under the sun".
 
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Why don't you post the few verses before and the few verses after the ones you just posted so we can have some context? Are good upstanding Christians such as yourself supposed to be deceitful?
They do that because they read the Bible by sentences, not chapters.
The most infamous example of this is John 3:16 which they ignore all the surrounding text.
Another example is how they often quote Matthew 5:17 but ignore Matthew 5:18-20 and pretend that it isn't in the Bible

Basically the (Protestant) Christian way of doing things is to only quote what is useful to their own deceptive means and this is nowhere more obvious when they go quoting scriptures of other religions where they play the "if my book says it, it's good but if your book says it, it's evil and from Satan".
Ah, the lovely double standards and special pleading. ROTFL
 

Lisa

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God has not revealed himself to us..... whatever strange spirits or demons you are worshiping instead of the one, true monotheistic God have led you astray.
Sure He has, God wants us to know Him and sent His Son Jesus to reconcile us to Himself.

I’m not the one worshipping the wrong god...
 

TokiEl

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Would you place pre eminence on the written words of John in the bible or the written words of Martin in a letter ?

That's up to you. You got choice.

You can choose the former and be correct or choose the latter and be a twat.
 

Elehcim

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Very shamefully they think that "just believe" makes them immune from the elephant in the room of textual criticism.

Also to call the Bible "word of God" is a uniquely Protestant position that makes no sense whatsoever, I've already made threads debunking that claim (and I really shouldn't have to even make those threads in the first place because it only requires reading the Bible to know that those claims are false)

Also the complete rejection of hermeneutics is such a nail in the coffin if one is to suggest they have some kind of truth. The Protestant view of the Bible turns the Bible into something that it isn't.

Also with the billions of Christian sects nobody who claims to be a Christian can claim that "just believe" is a good defense, it's a deliberate give away of charlatanism. As Ecclesiastes says "there is nothing new under the sun".
You do you boo.
 
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