How And Why Does Israel Have So Much Power?

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My sister has to same views as the majority of you here. She thinks we are the Israelites and our family personally comes from the tribe of Judah. I myself, don't really care for titles. As long as I serve God and endure to the end is what's most important. Anyways, my sister thinks only the Israelites will inherit the city that God will have for us during the 1,000 years, and that we are part of Zion, or something.There will be over 144,000 of Gods people, they aren't the only ones saved. That's what jehovahs witnesses and perhaps zionism christians believe in. To conclude, I can't call myself an Israelite. That's a whole different set of people.
 

DavidSon

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Not to play moderator or anything but it's been asked a few times if we can keep the religious discussion separate from the news/current event threads. Personally I find it helpful to have info in the correct place for future study.

A few (recent) threads about Judaism and Israel already open:

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/do-you-believe-secular-jewish-state-of-israel-is-prophesied-in-the-bible.6223/

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/red-heifer-birth-paves-way-for-renewed-temple-service.4421/
 

Lisa

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The British and the Arabs are both Semites but the AshkeNAZI counterfeit-Jews are NOT Semites, but are Japhethites (Genesis 10:3) who therefore are NOT “God’s Chosen” and have no Biblical God-given right to the Holy Land.
If that’s what you want to believe...but it is a wrong belief...according to the Bible.

Genesis‬ ‭17:4-8‬ ‭
As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
‭‭
Genesis‬ ‭17:15-21‬ ‭‬‬
Then God said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.” Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child? ” And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!” But God said, “No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.”​
‭‭
Genesis‬ ‭25:23‬ ‭
The LORD said to her, “Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger.”​
‭‭
The covenant with Israel being God’s chosen people go through Issac and Jacob, that is why God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. There is no abrahamic faiths..as you can clearly see in Genesis 17:19-20 Ishmael is blessed by God to make him fruitful and multiply him..but he isn’t part of the covenant God made with Abraham.

Christians are in the covenant because the Jews rejected Jesus..but they won’t be on the outs forever...God has His plan to bring them back to Him.

Romans‬ ‭11:1-5‬ ‭
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? “Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN Y OUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.​
‭‭

To deny God’s word is to deny God.
 

Lisa

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Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
Not to play moderator or anything but it's been asked a few times if we can keep the religious discussion separate from the news/current event threads. Personally I find it helpful to have info in the correct place for future study.

A few (recent) threads about Judaism and Israel already open:

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/do-you-believe-secular-jewish-state-of-israel-is-prophesied-in-the-bible.6223/

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/red-heifer-birth-paves-way-for-renewed-temple-service.4421/
Sure..but to talk Israel is to talk religion... isn’t it? The Jews against the muslims...the Jews and Christianity. It does speak to the situation that they find themselves in honesty.
 

Phithx

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Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
549
If that’s what you want to believe...but it is a wrong belief...according to the Bible.

Genesis‬ ‭17:4-8‬ ‭​

As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
‭‭
Genesis‬ ‭17:15-21‬ ‭‬‬​

Then God said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.” Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child? ” And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!” But God said, “No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.”​
‭‭
Genesis‬ ‭25:23‬ ‭​

The LORD said to her, “Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger.”​
‭‭
The covenant with Israel being God’s chosen people go through Issac and Jacob, that is why God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. There is no abrahamic faiths..as you can clearly see in Genesis 17:19-20 Ishmael is blessed by God to make him fruitful and multiply him..but he isn’t part of the covenant God made with Abraham.

Christians are in the covenant because the Jews rejected Jesus..but they won’t be on the outs forever...God has His plan to bring them back to Him.

Romans‬ ‭11:1-5‬ ‭​

I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? “Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN Y OUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.​
‭‭

To deny God’s word is to deny God.
Agreed, you're denying God and Christ's Words, and your own birthright, to which your verse-quotes refer https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/t...l-have-so-much-power.1710/page-27#post-247804

King of kings' Bible
Revelation
2:9 I know thy works, andtribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] theblasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but [are](Idumeans) the synagogue of Satan.
3:9 Behold, I will make themof the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are NOT, butdo LIE (Idumeans); behold, I will make them to come and worshipbefore thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
 
Last edited:

Phithx

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Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
549
Not to play moderator or anything but it's been asked a few times if we can keep the religious discussion separate from the news/current event threads. Personally I find it helpful to have info in the correct place for future study.

A few (recent) threads about Judaism and Israel already open:

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/do-you-believe-secular-jewish-state-of-israel-is-prophesied-in-the-bible.6223/

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/red-heifer-birth-paves-way-for-renewed-temple-service.4421/
Thank-you for the warning.

But actually the Bible is true-Israel's history, which the organised religions have turned into mush, and this discussion wouldn't be possible without it.
 

Lisa

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Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
Agreed, you're denying God and Christ's Words, and your own birthright, to which your verse-quotes refer https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/t...l-have-so-much-power.1710/page-27#post-247804

King of kings' Bible
Revelation
2:9 I know thy works, andtribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] theblasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but [are](Idumeans) the synagogue of Satan.
3:9 Behold, I will make themof the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are NOT, butdo LIE (Idumeans); behold, I will make them to come and worshipbefore thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
I’m not the one who is deceived here and its too bad your so caught up in my being a woman..that you can’t even listen to my correction.
 

Phithx

Veteran
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
549
My sister has to same views as the majority of you here. She thinks we are the Israelites and our family personally comes from the tribe of Judah. I myself, don't really care for titles. As long as I serve God and endure to the end is what's most important. Anyways, my sister thinks only the Israelites will inherit the city that God will have for us during the 1,000 years, and that we are part of Zion, or something.There will be over 144,000 of Gods people, they aren't the only ones saved. That's what jehovahs witnesses and perhaps zionism christians believe in. To conclude, I can't call myself an Israelite. That's a whole different set of people.
Thank-you for your comment.

I'd say that: not only racial Israelites will be saved, simply because of Rev. 7:9, and the whole lot that will be saved will be called Israel, which simply means Champions of God, or Fighters for God, simply because they will literally have fought for God. And many racial Israelites will not be saved (Matt.8:11 below). The State of Israel is bogus (Rev. 2:9, 3:9), but there are some there who will also be saved!

King of kings' Bible
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations,and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, andbefore the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in theirhands;

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the East and West, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in The Kingdom of heaven.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
3,578
Sure..but to talk Israel is to talk religion... isn’t it? The Jews against the muslims...the Jews and Christianity. It does speak to the situation that they find themselves in honesty.
That lies in YOUR interpretation, Lisa. Just because a country has the same name does not mean it's the biblical Israel; same can be said for the name "Jews". There are people who are keenly aware of this. Evidently, you're not one of them.

Please stop quoting the bible in News and Current events.
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
That lies in YOUR interpretation, Lisa. Just because a country has the same name does not mean it's the biblical Israel; same can be said for the name "Jews". There are people who are keenly aware of this. Evidently, you're not one of them.

Please stop quoting the bible in News and Current events.
The Bible has a lot to say about the state of the current events though. It’s why people are fighting about Israel anyway..otherwise no one would really care. I think its impressive that God gave them the land..only they are on just a smidgeon of it...and now they are back in that land. For people to think that doesn’t mean anything is really ignorance of what the Bible talks about. That namely they are the real Jews on the land and that we are in the end times that they are back in that land after wandering the world for so long. This is in fact current events...
 
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Messages
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A Third Man-Made Temple? Be serious.

When king David asked God if he could build a house for Him to live in, God answered:

“Shalt thou build Me an house for Me to dwell in? Whereas I have NOT dwelt in [any] house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. In all [the places] wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spoke I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed My people Israel, saying, Why build ye not Me an house of cedar (2 Sam 7:4-7)?”

God, Who created everything, is NOT a man, nor the son of man (Num. 23:19, John 4:24), and thus has no need for a physical house. He lives in the hearts and minds of everyone that invites Him in to live with them, so He can teach them how to be good (like God).

Why do you think the PEOPLE were referred to as the “House” of Israel and the “House” of Judah? The people, whom God created, were to be His House, NOT some man-made building. And why do you think the symbolic place of God was initially a tent/tabernacle? Because a tent/tabernacle can easily be taken with you wherever you go."




"Christian Zionism for Dummies"
 

Lisa

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Joined
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Messages
20,288
A Third Man-Made Temple? Be serious.

When king David asked God if he could build a house for Him to live in, God answered:

“Shalt thou build Me an house for Me to dwell in? Whereas I have NOT dwelt in [any] house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. In all [the places] wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spoke I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed My people Israel, saying, Why build ye not Me an house of cedar (2 Sam 7:4-7)?”

God, Who created everything, is NOT a man, nor the son of man (Num. 23:19, John 4:24), and thus has no need for a physical house. He lives in the hearts and minds of everyone that invites Him in to live with them, so He can teach them how to be good (like God).

Why do you think the PEOPLE were referred to as the “House” of Israel and the “House” of Judah? The people, whom God created, were to be His House, NOT some man-made building. And why do you think the symbolic place of God was initially a tent/tabernacle? Because a tent/tabernacle can easily be taken with you wherever you go."




"Christian Zionism for Dummies"
Yep there will be a third temple..they already have the accoutrement for it and the plans. I even heard that they had a prefab that will go up and it will go up quickly as soon as they get the go ahead. They are only waiting to find a spotless red heifer...o, and a treaty that will let them build it.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
2,040
If that’s what you want to believe...but it is a wrong belief...according to the Bible.

Genesis‬ ‭17:4-8‬ ‭​

As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
‭‭
Genesis‬ ‭17:15-21‬ ‭‬‬​

Then God said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.” Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child? ” And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!” But God said, “No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.”​
‭‭
Genesis‬ ‭25:23‬ ‭​

The LORD said to her, “Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger.”​
‭‭
The covenant with Israel being God’s chosen people go through Issac and Jacob, that is why God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. There is no abrahamic faiths..as you can clearly see in Genesis 17:19-20 Ishmael is blessed by God to make him fruitful and multiply him..but he isn’t part of the covenant God made with Abraham.

Christians are in the covenant because the Jews rejected Jesus..but they won’t be on the outs forever...God has His plan to bring them back to Him.

Romans‬ ‭11:1-5‬ ‭​

I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? “Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN Y OUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.​
‭‭

To deny God’s word is to deny God.
The Askenazis are not descended from Abraham.

Genesis
10:1 Now these [are] the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
10:3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

So as you can see, according to the Bible they are not Israel.
 

Phithx

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Joined
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Messages
549
That lies in YOUR interpretation, Lisa. Just because a country has the same name does not mean it's the biblical Israel; same can be said for the name "Jews". There are people who are keenly aware of this. Evidently, you're not one of them.
Thank-you :)

Please stop quoting the bible in News and Current events.
If I may please, the Bible is true-Israel's history, and this discussion would be impossible without it.

The organised religions have turned it into a money-making scam.
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
630
Thank-you for your comment.

I'd say that: not only racial Israelites will be saved, simply because of Rev. 7:9, and the whole lot that will be saved will be called Israel, which simply means Champions of God, or Fighters for God, simply because they will literally have fought for God. And many racial Israelites will not be saved (Matt.8:11 below). The State of Israel is bogus (Rev. 2:9, 3:9), but there are some there who will also be saved!

King of kings' Bible
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations,and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, andbefore the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in theirhands;

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the East and West, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in The Kingdom of heaven.
I can agree with that.
 

Lisa

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Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
The Askenazis are not descended from Abraham.

Genesis
10:1 Now these [are] the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
10:3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

So as you can see, according to the Bible they are not Israel.
The people in Israel are the Jews...no one would go there to be terrorized and maybe killed if they weren’t...they would just blend into the background.
 

DavidSon

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Messages
2,006
Sure..but to talk Israel is to talk religion... isn’t it? The Jews against the muslims...the Jews and Christianity. It does speak to the situation that they find themselves in honesty.
Thank-you for the warning.

But actually the Bible is true-Israel's history, which the organised religions have turned into mush, and this discussion wouldn't be possible without it.
We can have the maturity to recognize objectively the aspects of the country Israel's existence that apply politically vs. religiously. The Bible is a religious text. The nation that was formed in 1948 has a constitution, governing bodies, etc. Judaism is tied into their national identity but Israel was and is still considered more secular (vs. say the Islamic Republic of Iran). A year ago a law passed which further defined Israel as a Jewish state but that doesn't negate their secular past.

Israel’s Proclamation of Independence makes few concessions to the Almighty. The word ‘God’ does not appear, though there is a passing reference to trusting in the ‘Rock of Israel’. Israel, it decrees, will be a Jewish state, but the concept is nowhere defined. The state, it says, ‘will be based on the principles of liberty, justice and peace as conceived by the Prophets of Israel; will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of religion, race, or sex; will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, education and culture; will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and will loyally uphold the principles of the United Nations Charter’. Every student of modern Israel should reread the proclamation of May 14, 1948, at least once a year. It is a reminder of the secular vision of the founding fathers. Israel was to be a modern democratic state, an expression of Jewish nationalism rather than Jewish faith. The text reads as if the drafting committee was more familiar with the American and French revolutions than with the intricacies of Talmud. The phrase ‘as conceived by the Prophets of Israel’ is little more than rhetoric. Which of the Prophets were they talking about? Immediately after a clause proclaiming the ‘establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine’, the document promises that a constitution will be drawn up by a constituent assembly ‘not later than 1 October, 1948’. - Eric Silver
 

Lisa

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Joined
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Messages
20,288
We can have the maturity to recognize objectively the aspects of the country Israel's existence that apply politically vs. religiously. The Bible is a religious text. The nation that was formed in 1948 has a constitution, governing bodies, etc. Judaism is tied into their national identity but Israel was and is still considered more secular (vs. say the Islamic Republic of Iran). A year ago a law passed which further defined Israel as a Jewish state but that doesn't negate their secular past.

Israel’s Proclamation of Independence makes few concessions to the Almighty. The word ‘God’ does not appear, though there is a passing reference to trusting in the ‘Rock of Israel’. Israel, it decrees, will be a Jewish state, but the concept is nowhere defined. The state, it says, ‘will be based on the principles of liberty, justice and peace as conceived by the Prophets of Israel; will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of religion, race, or sex; will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, education and culture; will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and will loyally uphold the principles of the United Nations Charter’. Every student of modern Israel should reread the proclamation of May 14, 1948, at least once a year. It is a reminder of the secular vision of the founding fathers. Israel was to be a modern democratic state, an expression of Jewish nationalism rather than Jewish faith. The text reads as if the drafting committee was more familiar with the American and French revolutions than with the intricacies of Talmud. The phrase ‘as conceived by the Prophets of Israel’ is little more than rhetoric. Which of the Prophets were they talking about? Immediately after a clause proclaiming the ‘establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine’, the document promises that a constitution will be drawn up by a constituent assembly ‘not later than 1 October, 1948’. - Eric Silver
Aren’t they muslim states that want to see it destroyed just because they are Jewish? Haven’t the Jews already been through enough with the holocaust that wanted them wiped out...where do these poor people have to go? Wherever they live they are mistreated, terrorized and killed just for merely being Jewish...so it is a religious problem that they have.

And..for me its really amazing that the Jews are back in the land that God gave to them...for people that think God has nothing to do with it all..they are fooling themselves.
 
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